When Atheists Attack

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  • Posted By: selenatitansfan @ 09/23/2008 3:56:25 PM

    I've read this like 5 times and could read it 5 more. Sam makes excellent points. Too bad some people just don't get it and never will. LOST!

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 10:16:00 PM

      selen, we "get" it, some of us just don't agree with it. It took you 5 times to "get" it? And you may have to read it 5 more times to make sure you "got" it? Typical...

  • Posted By: kitteh @ 09/24/2008 10:10:57 PM

    Mr. Harris, Many thanks for putting my opinion in print.

  • Posted By: HectorTheAtheist @ 09/23/2008 4:05:27 PM

    To the previous poster: please please explain to me how Mr. Harris is an ???idiot???.

    Webster???s defines idiot as: a foolish or stupid person or a person affected with extreme mental retardation.

    Mr. Harris has published numerous books, won prizes in literature, and is currently pursuing a doctorate in neuroscience at Stanford University. Indeed, his resume and his body of work is quite the opposite of an ???idiot.???

    Perhaps it is you Loriw, who is the idiot. Perhaps you are the type of person so blinded by the myth of religion that you cannot see beyond your limited, narrow dogmatic view of the world (and yes Loriw, the world is older than 6000 years) and will label someone an ???idiot??? merely because they disagree in the believe that a jewish carpenter was the son of god. Only a ???foolish or stupid person??? would see that resume and call him an idiot.

    Moreover, although this is an opinion piece, please tell me where the facts that Mr. Harris cites are untrue. Ms. Palin is an evangelical christian that takes the text in a 2000 year old book (whom no one knows actually wrote, and no Loriw, it was not ???God???) as LITERAL and also rejects hundreds of years of scientific study, scholarship and research with respect to evolution as non-sense. Sorry, Loriw, that is also the definition of idiocy, because only a ???foolish or stupid person??? would dismiss logic, reason, science, and observation in favor of an un-provable, unscientific, and illogical myth that that is religion.




    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 10:08:11 PM

      Hector, so did Hitler write, I hear he was also a pretty good artist, so does that change anything about him being dumb concerning his belief that he could annihilate the Jewish people and create a "perfect" race? van Gogh was a brilliant artist, his works speak for themselves, but he was very disturbed emotionally, even cutting off his ear. Being intelligent does not, neccessarily, equate with being completely stable emotionally, in fact I believe Einstein died in an asylum for the mentally ill. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying Mr. Harris is any of those things, only pointing out that you can't always assume that one is in a healthy state of mind just because they are capable of doing impressive things.

  • Posted By: scoutkraft @ 09/23/2008 4:24:02 PM

    I can only come to the conclusion that the people who depise Sarah Palin are jealous. Green with Jealousy. What other human emotion would elicite such rage? Sandra Bernhardt just did a stage show (I believe it was a scene from Rosemary's baby) which was so mean and vile I expected her head to do a 360 and green vomit to spew forth from the opening in the front of her head. Many of the posts just say how stupid she is...but no evidence to back it up. I guess only Harvard grads are suitted to run the country. We were founded to escape Kings and royalty. We were to be goverened by Citizen representatives. Why does it always have to be a lawyer. We should elect someone based on their Character, not on their image or ability to speak well. I would trst John McCain with the Presidency because he proved his character in a vietnamese POW camp. For you liberals who are unfamiliar with the term, Character is how you behave when no one is looking. Obama puts down average Americans for toting guns and thumping Bibles. He is two faced and hypocritical. I also trsut Sarah Palin, because of her Character.. She can learn and do anything she puts her mind to do. Last time I checked you couldn't major in "President " at Harvard. Chose people based on Character, not on education level. They will make the best decisions for us as a country. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, but would anyone trust him with their wife or daughter? Don't let the liberal media aka TASS decide who will be the next President. They have implanted alll these doubts in your minds. America needs a free press. If Obama gets elected our so called free press automatically converts to a propaganda machine. Now all the liberals: please feel free to correct my grammer a, spelling and syntax. That is how you judge people.

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 9:48:12 PM

      Scoutkraft, maybe a small percentage are jeleous, but I think the majority actually believe what they say, which is much more scary than jeleously; jeleousy, we can deal with, but to try to deal with fanatical is a whole different kind of challenge, and a more difficult one.

    • Posted By: Bob Calhoun @ 09/23/2008 5:06:19 PM

      "America needs a free press." What good is a free press with candidates who refuse to give a press converence....ala Palin and McSame?

    • Posted By: Bob Calhoun @ 09/23/2008 5:03:51 PM

      What use is a free press if Palin refuses to give a press conference??

  • Posted By: ksskidude @ 09/24/2008 9:45:49 PM

    Star3
    Atheist's simply do not believe in god's or anything supernatural. You ask what is the point of being moral if you don't believe that there is life beyond this one. Kind of a silly thing to say don't you think? Morals do not come from religion or beliefs, they come from observations over periods of time. People thousands of years ago realized that killing someone was not a good thing, because it meant than they too were open for murder. I don't understand why xtians think that they have the only keys to be moral. So if there was no god, are you saying then taht you would rape and kill and steal, just because? Do you really need a magic man in the sky to tell you that those things are wrong?
    I have plenty of hope as an atheist. I have hope that my daughter will grow up and have a wonderful life, fall in love, and have children of her own. I have hope that one day science will discover cures for terrible diseases like cancer and ALS. I have lots of hope. I feel sad for you star3, that you will waste your whole life believing in a fairy tale, believing that you will live forever. How arrogant you xtians are!

  • Posted By: ksskidude @ 09/24/2008 9:44:44 PM

    Star3
    Atheist's simply do not believe in god's or anything supernatural. You ask what is the point of being moral if you don't believe that there is life beyond this one. Kind of a silly thing to say don't you think? Morals do not come from religion or beliefs, they come from observations over periods of time. People thousands of years ago realized that killing someone was not a good thing, because it meant than they too were open for murder. I don't understand why xtians think that they have the only keys to be moral. So if there was no god, are you saying then taht you would rape and kill and steal, just because? Do you really need a magic man in the sky to tell you that those things are wrong?
    I have plenty of hope as an atheist. I have hope that my daughter will grow up and have a wonderful life, fall in love, and have children of her own. I have hope that one day science will discover cures for terrible diseases like cancer and ALS. I have lots of hope. I feel sad for you star3, that you will waste your whole life believing in a fairy tale, believing that you will live forever. How arrogant you xtians are!

  • Posted By: theenlightenedone @ 09/24/2008 8:55:03 PM

    To star3, I understand that you believe that the VP job is not that big of a job, but imagine if something were to happen to McCain. We would have Sarah Palin as our president. She is in no position or has no intellectual traing what so ever. She's in the belief that we should consider going to war with Russia if they were to invade Georgia. Now with the economy on the brink of calapse and the over 500 billion dollars we spent in Iraq, I ask you if that's something we should even have a little thought about.

  • Posted By: AskPlus @ 09/23/2008 5:00:24 PM

    Here's an article about people in Alaska who don't like Ms. Palin even though she paid every one 3200 dollars with stolen money:
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/23/palin/?source=newsletter

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 8:32:15 PM

      Ask, and you believe every word of this article, it could not possibly be bogus, a planted article by someone who wants to create trouble? And, of course, you do have absolute proof of money being stolen that you can provide, so as to not have a libel suit against you--right?

  • Posted By: gretel5555 @ 09/23/2008 5:03:49 PM

    I could not have said it better myself. This article sums up everything that I find so terrifying, not only in possibility of a VP Palin, but in the mindset of her supporters.
    I'm sure she's a nice person, and it seems that she has been a fairly good Govenor, but to suggest that she is ready to be VP or, heaven forbid, President of the most powerful country on Earth is not only laughable, it's dangerous. This election honestly scares me. What has happened to my country? Since when did Separation of Church and state become optional? This is not the America that the founding Fathers had in mind...who, by the way, were for the most part NOT Christian.

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 8:23:42 PM

      Gretel, a majority of the founding fathers must have been christian, since they are the ones who set the standards for our country, and those standards were based on christianity. Why do so many people try to keep denying that, when they can plainly see the words "In God we trust" on all our money, and hear our patriotic songs which almost always mention God in the lyrics, and when we say the pledge to the flag, its "One nation under God", and in taking an oath in court or the oath for office of president, it is taken on the Bible, so how can anyone say we are not a christian nation?? We, nost definitely are a nation based on christian values; thats not to assume we are a perfect nation, certainly all of us know better than that, but our nation is based in, primarily, christian beliefs. I have heard that the ten commandments are posted on many of the government buildings in Washington, D.C. I realize you who are not into the christian faith will object to my post, but I am only stating facts, not making making judgment. But, yes, I am christian.

  • Posted By: hellurei @ 09/23/2008 5:33:38 PM

    Hmm, maybe we should had sent Palin to Olympics to do some swimming for US, she can swim right? And I am sure she would not had hesitated to step up on the start block (and take a place from a dedicated athlete, who had trained for that moment most of her life) and do her very best without blinking her eye. Or she could had wired her house for electricity, or flown a jet to JFK... Who needs all these specialists, or elites, if the regular guy and girl can do it with enough faith in God. WHAT COULD GO WRONG??? Please, (God in heaven or where ever you reside), lets not find out...

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 8:07:42 PM

      hell, you are worrying about things that are not part of the VPs job, VPs are not required to swim in the Olympics. Your scenarios are an attempt to make us believe there is similarity in climbing Mt. Everest, and in being VP. As far as I know, Cheney was never required to either swim the English channel or to prove his ability by climbing into a volcano, so stop your fretting, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling, and if it does, I'm sure you'll be one of the first to be notified.

  • Posted By: grand @ 09/23/2008 5:34:05 PM

    Sarah Palin's selection was an insult to all the much better qualified Republican women who were passed over in the selection process. It is also an insult to women voters and to voters in general to think that we would be so easily bought. If this campaign is any indication of her intended role in the White House, I think she should be insulted too--the token Mom. Keep her in the background and bring her out only when you need some applause. Give her written speeches on teleprompters and don???t let her speak on her own. Certainly she can???t be entrusted to meet the press except in controlled environments. The fact that she???s not insisting to get out there and face the tough questions tells me that she also knows she???s not ready.

    And please don???t compare Sarah Palin to Ronald Reagan who was much more astute and knew what was going on before he decided to run. He wasn???t taken by surprise. He didn???t have to take a Cliff Notes course behind closed doors. At this dangerous moment in our history when we seem about to crash and burn are we really going to make the choice of a President like a high school popularity contest?

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 7:59:02 PM

      grand, are you one of those "better qualified" women who was "passed over"? Is that why all the bitterness? Sarah Palin doesn't seem to be kept in the background from where I sit, she is very much out there, speaking her beliefs, and policies, so what is the problem? She should be insulted---why? She knows she is capable. And how would you know if Ronald Regan took courses on politics or how the government works? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. So what? As long as whoever is in office knows what they are expected to do once they are there, does it matter? Do you sit around all day reading up on how the office of VP works, just in case you may, one day, be asked to run for that office? Your arguments are weak.

  • Posted By: Josephjoseph @ 09/23/2008 5:41:42 PM

    In the past 50 years I've read more than once that In order for a democratic society to function properly there needs to be a well informed and well educated populace - and we ain't got one! The Republicans have found they can manipulate American voters using the "moron factor". In 2004 they won using the religious "moron factor". In this election year they are tapping into the female "moron factor". Let's see what happens!!!!

    • Posted By: News and Notes @ 09/23/2008 5:46:53 PM

      If Hillary were on the ticket Palin would still be in Alaska. Bad choice Obama

      • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 7:46:04 PM

        Even if Obama had picked Hillary, I think McCain would still have picked Palin, but Obama made his choice, bad as ir may be,so he is obligated to go with that.

    • Posted By: AskPlus @ 09/23/2008 6:13:25 PM

      As a member of the dumbest populace in the industrialized world. I agree. We are one dumb country. We'll probably do it again and really have the rest of the world against us. But if we try the bully tactics again, there will be no support - just crickets. And I would not blame the rest of the world.

  • Posted By: Ephesians3:14-21 @ 09/23/2008 6:01:44 PM

    Because of your letter, I am now more convinced than ever that I will vote for Mrs. Palin. Joseph was a boy sold into slavery, and went from jail the second highest in command in Egypt. Moses was a shepherd in the Land of Midian, after running for his life, for taking the life of an Egyptian who was mistreating one of his people. King David had been just a shepherd boy, but battled an armor bearing, weapon toting giant, and was chosen to be King of Israel. Gideon was one of the least of his people, but became one of the Judges of Israel. Queen Esther was a woman chosen to be a part of King Ahasuerus's harem, A lowly jew, looked down upon by the people in power, her wisdom and faith saved her people. Your right, Sara Palin is not capable of leading our nation; but God is! If Mrs. Palin is the Christian you say she is, she will try to lead this nation based on God's Word (the Bible), she will pray daily and ask God for wisdom, she will settle for truth and justice regardless of how well she is rated by the polls. Yes, I have a college education, I served my country in the military, I am a faithful Christian, husband and father. I love my country; The United States of America! I will stand with those others who say, God Bless America, My Home Sweet Home! .

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 7:40:17 PM

      Thank you, EP, that was very well put, and I agree completely. Thank you, also, for your service to our country.

    • Posted By: AskPlus @ 09/23/2008 6:10:05 PM

      So what. God would not want to run this country, and the last thing anybody wants to do is put their lives in the hands of the Evangelist Inquisition. Too many fruitcakes.

      • Posted By: molly1938 @ 09/23/2008 8:46:59 PM

        What? I know there was a point there but I missed it among the Bible quotes. We have many religions and everybody has their own idea about religious principles. If you're trying to say that someone who believes that only HER religious members will survive the end of the world and everyone who believes differently will go to hell is a fit leader, then you better start praying harder for this nation.

  • Posted By: democats4life @ 09/23/2008 7:25:42 PM

    because palin is a good mother doesnt make her fit to run this nation. the state of alaska doesnt have alot of people so i think that anyone can be governor of alaska but handing her another 49 states is obsurd!!!!!!!!!!! if you want to continue in this turmoil then vote republican if you want change then vote for obama!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: star3 @ 09/24/2008 7:33:55 PM

      Democat, many of us do not want Obama's kind of "change", we would rather have McCain's plan for change.

  • Posted By: Ldao1 @ 09/24/2008 4:41:38 PM

    I disagree with the idea that Sam Harris is insulting Sarah Palin's religious views. While he is an admitted atheist, who disagrees with all religions, not just Christianity as some would like to think, I believe his main argument is that one should not substitute religious conviction with critical thinking and an ability to do a given job. A person's faith is their own affair, but when you use that faith to trumpet your credentials for a public office, then your faith becomes the public's affair. I find it intellectually chilling when someone uses their faith in a God to justify a course of action. As Sam Harris so ably stated a belief in God does not automatically qualify you to be a neurosurgeon, yet for millions of people in this country it does seem to qualify you to be president. I do not object to Sarah Palin becuase she is a conservative, though I do disagree with her stance on a number of issues, I object to Sarah Palin because she seems equate cast critical thinking and balanced decision making into the realm of the snobbery and elitism. She and her like would rather rely on gut instincts and the belief that God is on their side, I find that scary. I would prefer my President to have the highest quality of education available in this country, I would like him/her to be as critical a thinker as possible, and I would wish that they be able to put aside their personal religious belief and do what they think is best for the whole of the land and not just for those who believer as they do.

    • Posted By: Dr Rick @ 09/24/2008 7:25:32 PM

      Good enough that it was worth repeating; thanks, again

  • Posted By: Ldao1 @ 09/24/2008 4:42:03 PM

    I disagree with the idea that Sam Harris is insulting Sarah Palin's religious views. While he is an admitted atheist, who disagrees with all religions, not just Christianity as some would like to think, I believe his main argument is that one should not substitute religious conviction with critical thinking and an ability to do a given job. A person's faith is their own affair, but when you use that faith to trumpet your credentials for a public office, then your faith becomes the public's affair. I find it intellectually chilling when someone uses their faith in a God to justify a course of action. As Sam Harris so ably stated a belief in God does not automatically qualify you to be a neurosurgeon, yet for millions of people in this country it does seem to qualify you to be president. I do not object to Sarah Palin becuase she is a conservative, though I do disagree with her stance on a number of issues, I object to Sarah Palin because she seems equate cast critical thinking and balanced decision making into the realm of the snobbery and elitism. She and her like would rather rely on gut instincts and the belief that God is on their side, I find that scary. I would prefer my President to have the highest quality of education available in this country, I would like him/her to be as critical a thinker as possible, and I would wish that they be able to put aside their personal religious belief and do what they think is best for the whole of the land and not just for those who believer as they do.

    • Posted By: Dr Rick @ 09/24/2008 7:24:33 PM

      Very nice post and spot-on, imo; thanks

  • Posted By: bee.merrie @ 09/24/2008 6:03:15 PM

    Mr. Harris reads entirely too much into Sarah Palin's faith, and abandons ultra American ideas of ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Americans are tired of empty promises delivered by artificial elitists that are continually working to "appear" to be helping America to improve. Americans find it easier to trust someone they identify with-whether that be by faith, hobbies, or personality. The author is just mad because Palin brings this appeal.

  • Posted By: sharenews @ 09/24/2008 6:03:14 PM

    TO: CbrookDoc who posted on: 09/24/2008 12:33:03 PM the following comment:
    Comment: To me the most disturbing part of the interview with Charles Gibson was when he asked if she had hesitated for even a moment when asked to be McCain's running mate. Her response was that no, she had not hesitated. What kind of person, when asked if they would like to change the course of their life and the welfare of their whole family for ever, does not hesitate at least long enough to think through the ramifications of that decision. The last thing we need in this county is another person who thinks that "gut feelings" and "shooting from the hip" are substitutions for intelligence and planning.

    MY RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE:

    Hey, Doc. Let me fill you in. Governor Palin knew about being on the VP list for consideration for well over a year before McCain actually asked her to be his VP. That , of course, also gave her a good year to consider such a honorable position . . . and by her saying that she (when asked) had no question about answering McCain with a YES (based on her knowing McCain wanted her to serve for the better of the people in this country) I say : GREAT DECISION on McCains part and Governor Palins part. ; - D

    McCain / Palin - 2008!!
    Hillary Clinton - 2012

  • Posted By: sharenews @ 09/24/2008 5:50:43 PM


    Here is my response to HarleyisHere @ 09/24/2008 4:22:40 PM remark where s/he says:
    McCain Ducks the DEBATE!

    MY RESPONSE:
    You are kidding me, Harleythere. McCain has been challenging Obama to a debate for almost 5 months now to no fruition. For McCain to forego a debate has nothing to do with McCain ducking a good debate, but all to do with his calling to Obama to do what is right for the people in this country right now, which is to return to Washington and pull off their campaign hats for a few days and work with Congress to get a resolve to this horrendous economical situation we are in - to at least work together in unity (Obamas mantra of the past) for the sake of this country. I dont think that is alot to ask of Obama. I just think he is p*ssed off about the fact that McCain beat him to the punch on suggesting such a refreshing action in our time of need. Now there is something to chew on, Obamabots.!! Obama, change Obamabots continue to wait for. . .



    Posted By: sharenews @ 09/24/2008 5:35:39 PM
    Comment: In other words, Obama did not take advantage of being in a position to WALK THE WALK (to backup all his talk) about being a reformer. . . a candidate that goes out of his way to reach across the aisle to resolve problems in Washington. And if THIS problem is not worthy of such an effort, I cannot even fanthom any other problem anywhere near as important, other than a war or terrorist attack breaking out in the US. Obama was just about handed the opportunity to jump in and exemplify his bipartisanship but gave it all up due to his EGO getting in the way given McCain came up with this COUNTRY FIRST action to deal with the crisis we are in.

  • Posted By: SVP4Life @ 09/24/2008 5:46:18 PM

    Bravo Sam Harris.

    All of you bible thumpers defending this ridiculous choosing of Sarah Palin are first and foremost forgetting that this country was founded by people who wanted a separation of church and state. You want to go to church everyday? Fine. You don't want your wife to have abortions? Fine. You don't like people who don't worship exactly the same way or pray using the same book or for that matter, look and dress like you do? Well, that is entirely your business. However, these are personal decisions, and I for one don't need a religious wingnut trying to force his or her righteous indignation down my throat, and we as a nation certainly don't need one in the White House offending world leaders with their limited views and higher than thou attitudes and platitudes. You can say what you want about the Democratic nominees-- but when the day is done they are the most competent ticket. Obama/Biden would put an end to the cronyism, corruption and blatant disregard the Bush Administration has shown for anyone who isn't making over 300,000 dollars a year. And now they're trying to pass this buyout without an oversight committee? By the time the Bush Administration is done there will be nothing left to steal! McCain/Palin means a continuation of the Bush robbery and more than likely, the final destruction of the middle class!

    Anyone who does not see that and would try to argue any of the valid points that Mr. Harris made in this article is blind to what is really going on in the world.

    We're all going to die eventually, but I am in no immediate rush to Rapture, and do not want a Vice President who is either. I'd also like a government that cares about all of it's people, not just a few hand selected sycophants.

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