When Atheists Attack

Dear sretlaw:
It seems necessary to point out that David was the ruler of a theocracy established by God, Moses was tapped to lead God's people out of a pagan nation that was enslaving them, Mary was to become the mother of Jesus Christ, James and John were writers of an "inspired" text and leaders of the early Christian church. Sarah Palin would be a leader of a secular nation. Were this an explicitly religious nation like, say, Iran, it might make sense to reference Biblical leaders as an example of why Palin may be qualified though unqualified. It would make sense to expect a MIRACLE to occur, creating a leader out of next to nothing, if this were a nation dedicated to serving the Christian God. But, alas, it's not. Actually, no alas at all. We have the freedom to worship as our conscience guides us, and to judge among those of our congregation who may be qualified to lead a particular body of believers. We need some other criteria for judging a politician's fitness to lead one of the greatest nations in the world. And yes, being well-educated and well-traveled may be marks of someone better prepared to take the helm.

Bravo Sam Harris!

All of you bible thumpers defending this ridiculous choosing of Sarah Palin are first and foremost forgetting that this country was founded by people who wanted a separation of church and state. You want to go to church every Sunday? Fine. You don't want your wife to have abortions? Fine. You don't like people who don't worship exactly the same way or pray using the same book or for that matter, look and dress the way you do? Well, that is entirely your business. However, these are personal decisions, and I for one don't need a religious wingnut trying to force his or her righteous indignation down my throat, and we as a nation certainly don't need one in the White House offending world leaders with their limited views and higher than thou attitudes and platitudes. You can say what you want about the Democratic nominees-- but when the day is done they are the most competent ticket. Obama/Biden would put an end to the cronyism, corruption and blatant disregard the Bush Administration has shown for anyone who isn't making over 300,000 dollars a year. Anyone who does not see that and would try to argue against any of the points that Mr. Harris made in this article is blind to what is really going on in the world.

We're all going to die eventually, but I am in no immediate rush to Rapture, and I do not want a Vice President who is either!

Does noone in this damn country remember the separation of religion and state?

It's one thing to have religions views, and no one can deny that these views and morals shape who you are and shape the policies you support. But when the decisions you make based on these religious views threaten the constitution, that is where there are problems. While Obama has strong religious views, and potentially a reverend that most find apalling... he only allows these views to shape him, not define others and the country he would so proudly lead.

The Republican bloggers here have been persistent and belligerent in offering meaningless and deceptive garbage trying to distract and persuade without any accountability for pertinence or truth. One arrogantly and adamantly, as if an authority, even presented a super long list of philosophies for open markets, deregulation, etc. as to why the Republicans offer better economics, neglecting to admit everything he offered was slanted and full of errors. He was angry and aggressively challenging, looking for a fight but didn???t identify that he was so emotional because he was in the top income category and upset when thinking Obama may increase his taxes. He erroneously said small business would be hurt when Obama actually has promised to reduce their taxes along with large corporations who create jobs here (Obama has said 95% will receive a tax decrease and only those individuals earning over $250k and corporations exporting jobs and using loopholes to escape paying fair taxes would get increases). The blogger also offered that tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs and stimulate the economy, when common sense tells you different. The wealthy who already spend whatever they want don???t spend more when they get tax cuts, the poor and middle class do and get the money right back into the economy, stimulating it and even producing profits for companies and the wealthy. The trickle-down theory is a fraud as what we really have is a bubble-up economy. Tax cuts for the wealthy only make the wealthy wealthier and stimulate contributions for political campaigns and later kickbacks. Point by point answers could be provided but I really don???t want to go back and forth as neither of us will ever change our mind. The final proof is that the last eight years should convince anyone that there is a lot wrong with the Republican philosophies (especially noting that the only thing trickling down is the costs) and then history clearly shows that the best economic periods have always been under a Democratic government. Hard to factually or truthfully argue with that and again that is my real point. How can anyone put any faith in or vote for those that practice gross dishonesty?

What has become both typical and disgusting is how John McCain is trying to use everything for public attention and political advantage while clearly demonstrating he has more interest in show than substance. Obama had contacted McCain early this morning and suggested that together they work with the congress and the White House to address the financial crisis in a bipartisan manner. Later in the day McCain responding saying he was receptive to doing just that and in making the joint statement suggested by Senator Obama. Then ever since, Senator McCain has been boldly trying to make everything sound like his idea, his initiation and so on, simply for public opinion and political advantage, with again very questionable sincerity and concern for other than his personal gain. McCain is not only dishonest but he is also obviously desperate!
(update) I see just now where McCain has come out with a different version and sequence of things but admits the initiation was by Obama and it still is obvious that McCain jumped at trying to use all of it for his political advantage. The more McCain does the more he demonstrates questionable honesty and sincerity.

When Obama said that not taking care of the least of our brothers is our greatest moral failure, who knew that he was talking literally about the least of his brothers?

Obama's half brother George lives in a hut in Kenya on $1 a day and yet Barak hasn't given him any money. He made over $4 million off his book but can't even give his brother $1,000 to $5,000??

YET THIS SCUM BAG OBAMA wants to tax the rich in America more to help its poor, to create more WELFARE programs!

Can you say Obama is a HYPOCRITE !!!!

You bring up some interesting points about religion in regards to Sarah Palin, but I wonder why you focus on her Christianity alone. Why aren't you equally concerned about Barak Obama's brand of Christianity - if hearing Reverand Wright's rants don't scare you what will?

You state, "Why would God give Sarah Palin a job she isn't ready for? He wouldn't."

For an athiest you seem pretty confident about the workings of a God you don't believe in.

In fact, the Bible has ample evidence that God chooses people who the world would not consider qualified for the job at hand, but who God sees fit for positions of leadrship. King David (a sheperd), Moses (a murderer), Mary (an unwed, pregnant teenager), the Apostles James and John (fishermen), etc., etc.

Is Sarah Palin up to the job of Vice President? Only time will tell, but leadership isn't something that is learned in ivy league colleges, comes with a worn passport, or is learned in the hallways of capitol buildings. Just ask anyone who has ever served in battle. Leaders are usually those who we would least expect greatness from.

You bring up some interesting points about religion in regards to Sarah Palin, but I wonder why you focus on her Christianity alone. Why aren't you equally concerned about Barak Obama's brand of Christianity - if hearing Reverand Wright's rants don't scare you what will?

You state, "Why would God give Sarah Palin a job she isn't ready for? He wouldn't."

For an athiest you seem pretty confident about the workings of a God you don't believe in.

In fact, the Bible has ample evidence that God chooses people who the world would not consider qualified for the job at hand, but who God sees fit for positions of leadrship. King David (a sheperd), Moses (a murderer), Mary (an unwed, pregnant teenager), the Apostles James and John (fishermen), etc., etc.

Is Sarah Palin up to the job of Vice President? Only time will tell, but leadership isn't something that is learned in ivy league colleges, comes with a worn passport, or is learned in the hallways of capitol buildings. Just ask anyone who has ever served in battle. Leaders are usually those who we would least expect greatness from.

Sretlaw

San Harris is obviously not so concern about Palin's lack of experience, but about her faith. Otherwise, he would have nuanced Obama's lack of experience as well. Obama's lack of experience was not even mentioned! What about Obama's Black Liberation Theology? Remember, Palin has vice presidential potential and Obama is the real deal. Here we have more anti-Christian bashing by Newsweek. - Gary

San Harris is obviously not so concern about Palin's lack of experience, but about her faith. Otherwise, he would have nuanced Obama's lack of experience as well. Obama's lack of experience was not even mentioned! What about Obama's Black Liberation Theology? Remember, Palin has vice presidential potential and Obama is the real deal. Here we have more anti-Christian bashing by Newsweek. - Gary

Barry. That old frog is trying to upstage you again. As if you, the One we have been waiting for on the Upper West Side of Manhatta overlooking Central Park between 62nd and 84th Streets, could be upstaged. DeGaule of him. The nerve. You tell him No. No No. Tell him you will go ahead with the debate. You go to Misipipi and wait for him on Friday. Make it like High Noon. I love that movie. You play the sheriff waiting for the bad man to come off the train. Where is Misipipi? What state is it in?

If according to the author, "You can learn something about a person by the company she keeps," in reference to Palin's religious affiliations, what does the author think about Obama's religious affiliations with an extremist Church that preaches about the evils of America, the greatness of a radical like Farrakhan and how America needs to be punished for its "crimes." The preacher of this Church was Obama's spiritual advisor for years until someone told him that having a an advisor who "hates America" was not the best idea for a presidential candidate. If you hate America and feel it should be punished, you probably shouldn't have control of nukes either, agreed?

Perhaps Mr. Harris would be interested in knowing that his beloved Pres. Clinton sent his daughter to a "crazy" pentecostal summer camp every year. I guess that rule the Clinton's out of public office as well.

Bravo, Sam Harris. It scares me to think that Republicans and some Democrats believe SP is the perfect running mate for a 72 yr. old candidate... NOT with her religious affiliation being thrust upon us. Americans can be duped so easily by a cutsey, petite, beauty queen, soccer mom with a viper's tongue. The information in this article about SP's religious beliefs and what COULD happen should scare the living daylights out anyone. Unfortunately, the "racists would rather vote for a religious fanatic than a black person. It's hard to believe we are living in 2008... sometimes it seems like 1708.

Part 5:

"Based on her stated position, we know that she would deny her daughter an abortion even if she had been raped. "

Response: That is a true statement, and she should be applauded for taking an intellectually honest position on this point, even if politically unpopular. Once you concede a fetus is a human being, you cannot sanction abortion regardless of the origins of that human life.

"With the McCain team leading her around like a pet pony "

Response: Does the author think that the Obama campaign doesn't tell Biden where to go and what to say (until even they can't control him)?

"Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics?"

Response: Because some of history's greatest tragedies have been instigated by "elites" who thought they knew better than ordinary folk what was best for those ordinary folks. Mao, Marx, Lenin, and Pol Pot were elites. So was Robert McNamara.

The distinction with the examples the author trots out -- pilots, surgeons, etc. -- is that politicians impact how we go about our daily lives. Experts are best for small, discrete issues. When it comes to governing my daily life, I want someone who knows what that daily life is like, not someone who read about it in a condescending social science journal talking about how middle Americans cling to guns and religion out of bitterness.

"Palin seems capable of enacting policies so detached from the common interests of humanity, and from empirical reality, as to unite the entire world against us. "

Response: Actually, she probably understands the common interests of humanity much better than Obama. Even if she didn't, I'd be a bit surprised to see the entire world unite against us.

Part 4:

"Given her long affiliation with the Assemblies of God church, Palin very likely believes that Biblical prophecy is an infallible guide to future events and that we are living in the "end times."

Response: So the author wants to talk about churches, does he? What Reverend Wright was spouting was much scarier. And Wright was Obama's close friend and spiritual advisor; what the author refers to in Palin's case is obscure church doctrine.

"Palin's spiritual colleagues describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. "

Response: Which "spiritual colleagues"? Can the author identify anyone? On the other hand, I can certainly think of one person who suffers from apocalyptic hysteria (at the prospect of Palin in the White House).

"And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?"

Response: Would there have been a few crazies? Sure. There are also liberal crazies who argue that Palin's daughter should have had an abortion. But the vast majority of conservatives would applaud such a situation where the couple takes responsibility by getting married and keeping the baby. This demonstrates the author's complete ignorance of the conservative mind-set. I wonder, if his circle of conservative friend's equals Arthur Miller's.

"She has also fought vigorously for a "parental consent law" in the state of Alaska, seeking full parental dominion over the reproductive decisions of minors. We know, therefore, that Palin believes that she should be the one to decide whether her daughter carries her baby to term.

Response: There is no logical connection between the statements in these two sentences, depsite the author's attempt to fabricate one with a surreptituious "therefore." The parental consent law establishes that Palin thinks parents should have a say over their underage daughter's abortions. Something, I might add, that most Americans believe.

Stay tuned for part 5

Part 3:

"I care even more about the many things Palin thinks she knows but doesn't: like her conviction that the Biblical God consciously directs world events. Needless to say, she shares this belief with mil-lions of Americans???but we shouldn't be eager to give these people our nuclear codes, either."

Response: The author is apparently willing to preclude the vast majority of Americans from presidential politics. Most Americans believe in God, and most religious faiths teach that God has a plan for the world.

"In speaking before her church about her son going to war in Iraq, Palin urged the congregation to pray "that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God; that's what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." When asked about these remarks in her interview with Gibson, Palin successfully dodged the issue of her religious beliefs by claiming that she had been merely echoing the words of Abraham Lincoln. "

Response: three of them. First, Gibson misquoted her in the interview in a misleading way, something the author fails to mention. Second, what she was saying was that we need to pray that we're doing the right thing in Iraq. Hard to see what's wrong with that. Third, Obama has said almost identical things on numerous occassions about praying that what we do as a nation is the right thing, or God's will, something that the author either ignores or is ignorant of.

"The New York Times later dubbed her response "absurd." "

Response: I guess if the Times says it, it must be so. Oh, wait a minute...

"Every detail that has emerged about Palin's life in Alaska suggests that she is as devout and literal-minded in her Christian dogmatism as any man or woman in the land. "

Response: When presented with a bill extending employee medical benefits to same-sex couples, she signed it. Everyone in Alaska agrees that she governed as a pragmatist. So not only is it false to say that "every detail" suggests what the author contends, major facts demonstrate the opposite, and the author fails to identify a single "detail" that supports his statement.

Stay tuned for part 4