What is it Really Going to Cost?

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  • Posted By: deliman @ 09/25/2008 6:04:54 PM

    I think that the ceo's that are trying to get a mountan of money. Even if they do get the money,and end up in prison, when they get out they will still have that money. I think that all their propertys are taken and let them see how bad it is ,and how it feels. Take every thing they own.

  • Posted By: pennygregory @ 09/25/2008 4:14:53 PM

    The Birk Economic Recovery PLan
    Hi Pals,

    I???m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

    Instead, I???m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
    a We Deserve It Dividend.

    To make the math simple, let???s assume there are 200,000,000
    bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

    Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
    and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

    So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

    My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
    We Deserve It Dividend.

    Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let???s assume a tax rate of 30%.

    Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

    But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
    A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

    What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
    Pay off your mortgage ??? housing crisis solved.
    Repay college loans ??? what a great boost to new grads
    Put away money for college ??? it???ll be there
    Save in a bank ??? create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
    Buy a new car ??? create jobs
    Invest in the market ??? capital drives growth
    Pay for your parent???s medical insurance ??? health care improves
    Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean ??? or else

    Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
    who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
    that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

    If we???re going to re-distribute wealth let???s really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( ???vote buy??? ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

    If we???re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let???s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

    As for AIG ??? liquidate it.
    Sell off its parts.
    Let American General go back to being American General.
    Sell off the real estate.
    Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

    Here???s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn???t.

    Sure it???s a crazy idea that can ???never work.???

    But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

    How do you spell Economic Boom?

    I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
    We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

    And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

    Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

    • Posted By: Hunnyman78 @ 09/25/2008 4:33:40 PM

      You missed something in your analysis penny. The $85,000,000,000 was a LOAN at a delightful rate of 11.5% interest. For the $425,000 that every adult would get, you'd owe $48,875 a year in interest. I'd get busy working and stop pulling "facts" out of thin air so you can afford your first monthly interest oayment of $4,072.92.

      Enjoy the "bailout"!

      • Posted By: NJ to Miami @ 09/25/2008 5:11:47 PM

        $85 billion divided by 200 million people is $427 . Not $425,000.
        $700 billion divided by 200 million people is $3,500.
        180 million American hand in tax returns every year so that is who contributes to the bail out.

        • Posted By: Hunnyman78 @ 09/25/2008 5:58:43 PM

          Yep, forgot to check his math. Figured simple division would be easy enough...

  • Posted By: Rodney Paine @ 09/25/2008 5:55:01 PM

    Where is the bailout for the homeowner that is now unable to sell their homes for a profit or at breakeven price.

    Are they the only people forgotton in this rescue?

  • Posted By: Rodney Paine @ 09/25/2008 5:50:50 PM

    The fundamental issue of the housing problem is not addressed by this "rescue".
    Homeowners purchased their home at price X. These home are now valued as x-? by the market.
    There is a glut of new housing available also at x-?.

    Homeowners do not and will not have a opportunity to sell their homes for the foreseeable future, unless
    they sell at a loss.

    Where is the bailout for these individuals?

  • Posted By: gusgeldman @ 09/25/2008 5:46:16 PM

    Without helping homeowners in a meaningfull way this should never happen. That being said the true problem is an underlying lack of intgrity and lack of anything but short term mindset that has resulted in a decay of our society in general.

  • Posted By: TheDevil @ 09/25/2008 5:05:55 PM

    We do need a revolution. These people in office suck! Let it crash in the end it will be better for everyone as the government and the governments leeches would be forced to place a real currency in circulation and all prices would GO DOWN!

    • Posted By: gizzy828 @ 09/25/2008 5:43:00 PM

      BRAVO TO YOU....great comment and so true

  • Posted By: vala @ 09/25/2008 5:41:03 PM

    The CEO's of these companies, I have heard, gave themselves some very nice bonuses, before this talk of bailout occured. Hmmmm. I think they should all be investigated for "insider information". Maybe I do not know what I am talking about. But it seems funny that these big companies can line their pockets with bonuses, etc. and then claim they are failing and need governmental help. What about giving themselves some paycuts. Decrease the bonuses they vote for themselves. Quit using company monies for personal.....whatevers. They got too big for their britches as far as I am concerned. It is like in the depression, the rich got richer and the poor and middle class got poorer. Unfortunately, if the government did not step in with these "companies", the consequences really do not affect the well to do people involved, but the people who NEED their jobs to survive the horribly high cost of living. I think the people responsible for the need of this bailout should be held accountable. How? I dont know, hefty fines, community service? For a looonnnggg time? Bring them down to our reality.

  • Posted By: Bill Edwards @ 09/25/2008 5:33:48 PM

    Ok. All of the fear mongering and scare tactics aside. Let's just forget about the dire predictions of the Bailout supporters telling us that failure to pass this measure will result in financial chaos, and the drum-beating of it's detractors who believe government (The Taxpayer) has no business helping the theives and con artists who've created this mess to begin with from both business and politics.
    In my opinion, this is never going to fix, no matter how much money we throw at it, and how much TRUST we hand to those who've already proven themselves untrustworthy.
    However, i also have a question that I haven't seen or heard asked yet throughout this whole Bailout thing.
    HOW MUCH OF THIS MONEY WILL BE USED TO PAY FOR AND/OR SHORE UP THE LUDICROUS SALARIES OF THE CROOKS STILL RUNNING THESE BUSINESSES BEING BAILED OUT, AND ARE ANY OF THEM GOING TO BE INVITING THE AMERICAN AND CANADIAN PEOPLE (Who are suffering just as much because whatever happens stateside comes straight across the border) FOR FREE BAR-B-QUES ON THEIR YACHTS, OR AT THE VERY LEAST, A FREE EXECUTIVE JET-RIDE TO A MUCH DESERVED VACATION?
    Something tells me all of the belt-tightening, as usual, will happen in our homes, not theirs.
    Fire the whole damned lot of them, and let's get a new batch.
    It's said that they recieved their salaries based on their qualifications and talent in business. Well, if Wall Street were American or Canadian Idol their lacks of talent would have had them booted off a long time ago.

  • Posted By: valark @ 09/25/2008 3:22:20 PM

    Wow, you people seriously do not understand the obligation on those investments? The other countries who invested in these loans? That defaulting on it as a country would be economic suicide?

    What is scary is how you think that any of this has to do with your inability to save a dollar. How about you give up your computers and internet subscriptions if money is so tight? You aren't poor, you are jealous.

    • Posted By: patricia1016 @ 09/25/2008 3:46:15 PM

      I have my computer and my internet service for my business. As for being jealous, sure I would love if I had an employer who offered a 401K, I would have gladly put something into it. But you must realize not every employer offers a 401K. I am not crying that I am poor. I am just making it like many, perhaps you are a bit more well off? From the tone you are setting, it seems your a bit frustrated. But my question was to wrkhrdfornada, as he is the one who stated those who do not save are part of the "cause"

      • Posted By: brandonoverton @ 09/25/2008 5:30:13 PM

        saveing is not the problom i have lost thousans in this mess out of my 401k saveing is not the problom.

    • Posted By: NJ to Miami @ 09/25/2008 5:17:40 PM

      Not defaulting as a country. Lehman Brothers and AIG are not a country.

    • Posted By: NJ to Miami @ 09/25/2008 5:16:21 PM

      China stock market is down 50% in past year so based on your reasoning the Chinese governemnt should pay all the Americans who lost money in Fidelity China mutual fund.

    • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 09/25/2008 3:26:02 PM

      valark - you are correct in that the US cannot default on these securities.

      What the big issue is (for me) is that once the democrats get inside the banks, they will not want to loosen their grip. We need language in the bill to kick the government out of investment banks.

    • Posted By: wig party @ 09/25/2008 3:25:00 PM

      well said

  • Posted By: Evax @ 09/25/2008 5:29:44 PM

    The evil tree planted by Bush, Cheney, and other hawks in the White House is now bearing bitter fruit for Americans. Like Taiwan's Chen Siu-bian, Bush has to be put on trial for the colossal crimes he has committed.

  • Posted By: gerid33 @ 09/25/2008 5:26:21 PM

    I'm not bailling out the rich for their mistakes they can loose every thing and live like the rest of us poor!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: brandonoverton @ 09/25/2008 5:26:10 PM

    the bail out is a bad idea the gov don't have the money so there going to print some more and drive the dollar to nothing by the end of it all. brandon overton

  • Posted By: gerid33 @ 09/25/2008 5:25:15 PM

    i'm not bailling out the rich for there misyakes they can loose everything and live poor like the rest of us!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: LOLOSMITHJOHN @ 09/25/2008 2:53:43 PM

    ANSWER TO PALMBEACH:
    ATLEAST OBAMA IS NOT RANING FROM DISCASING THE SITUATION. MCCAIN JUST IS LAZY. HE WANTS BUSH TO MAKE HIS DISICION, THEN MCCAIN WILL JUST COPIE IT AND SAY THAT IT IS HIS OPENION, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PLANES OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.

    • Posted By: goodwillhunting22@hotmail.com @ 09/25/2008 4:20:18 PM

      Your comments would have more validity if you knew how to spell

      • Posted By: Montana450815 @ 09/25/2008 5:11:55 PM

        Many people do not know how to spell well. (Dan Quayle) That does not make their point less valid. Maybe they are like me and find it difficult to see the letters the way the reply boxes are set up.

    • Posted By: oldefarte @ 09/25/2008 3:48:54 PM

      Generally, I try to refrain from ad hominem responses, but not only are your facts wrong (it wasn't McCain "dodging" the discussion - McCain was out proposing a meaningful response to this issue at a time when Sen. Obama was "declining to comment", only to have Obama subsequently adopt exactly the position McCain had announced, albeit not until he could figure out which way the wind was blowing - a not atypical response from a candidate with few, solid or original ideas) but you also seem to be something of a sub-literate. Perhaps you should try to avoid embarassing your candidate by just not commenting.

  • Posted By: jenniferf @ 09/25/2008 5:08:45 PM

    Ok, perhaps I'm an idiot...maybe I don't know all the ins and outs of why we're even in a financial crisis. So let's pretend I'm six years old and I'll break this down simply. Why am I expected to help bail out on a situation I did not help create? I mean, I don't have a mortgage, my house is paid for. I don't have stocks, bonds or any dealings at all on Wall Street. How can government expect to pass down a $700 billion dollar tax bill to people who can't pay their mortgages...at what point does the little guy get to jump up and down and yell "NO MORE, I paid your exorbitant prices for gas, I stood by quietly as the price of food and clothing and everything else went up, but I flat-out REFUSE to pay for someone else's screw up"? I think it's time, don't you?

  • Posted By: oldefarte @ 09/25/2008 2:56:17 PM

    Palmbeach - firstly, both sides are to blame in this. It started with Clinton's 1999 housing initiative. Bush and Co., however, certainly let it get out of control and share primary political responsibiiity for the mess, then again, the D's didn't do anything the last couple years either. As to McCain and Obama, please note that McCain was trying to put some controls on this stuff (esp. Fannie MAE and Freddie MAC) as far back as 2005. Neither his own party (2005 and 2006) nor the Dems (2007 and 2008) listened to him. Sen. Obama wasn't in position, most of that time, to bear any real responsibiity, but, then again, unlike McCain, he gains no credit, either.

    The REAL problem can be summed up succinctly, however: The bail-out is a proposed "fix of the financial markets". To heck with the "financial markets", they are the SOURCE of the problem! The REAL proposal should be a "fix of the economy". Put simply, if we must use Gov't money for working capital, let the Gov't loan it to the end users directly, NOT funnel it through the very people and institutions who made the mess. $25 Billion loaned to Ford will return billions in both revenues and increased liquidity. $85 Billion loaned to AIG gets you... uhh, pretty much just AIG and its problems. Tell your Congressmen NO. Bail out America? Okay. Bail out Wall St.? No way.

    • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 09/25/2008 3:21:17 PM

      You say Obama bears no blame in this? Why do you think Fannie and Freddie "gave" him the second highest amount of $$ - next to Chris Dodd. WHAT do you think Fannie and Freddie got for that money?

      • Posted By: Montana450815 @ 09/25/2008 5:06:42 PM

        Individuals made campaign contributions, not the institutes themselves. Unlike Fannie and Freddie paying McCain's campaign manager who received at least as $15,000.00 a month up until the government takeover.

      • Posted By: craziness101 @ 09/25/2008 4:44:55 PM

        Yeah it really is both parties faults and the fact that people don't understand this is what's scary. Too many just throwing blame at the person with the D or R in front of their name. Dems stood in the way of all the regulation put forth that was introduced to try and reel in Fannie and Freddie because they were in bed with them. I think that record is clear. The reason Dems were so biased is because they wanted to have those who could not afford housing get low cost loans so they could afford to do so. A noble goal but unfortunately it creates a financial mess that can't be sustained. Saying that the republicans are more at fault. They have been in charge for almost the whole last decade. They didn't make this a big issue and once again something under Bushy explodes. Both parties suck people and both are leading this country to bankruptcy. While everyone is running around hating the other side the leaders are running us into the ground. Wake up. Partisanship is for idiots. McCain and Obama are both respectful guys and love this country., but both are beholden to special interest and to an ignorant constituancy. I'm voting Obama because I think he may just be a little better then McCain, but you would have to be crazy not to be weary of the funds Obama received from the companies who are at the core of this meltdown. Unfortunately that is the name of the game and he was towing the party line. You have to give props to McCain as well because he was out in front on this issue. Now if only his thought process didn't help get us involved in a 10-20 year war in the heart of the middle east for no good reason I would probably give him the nod.

    • Posted By: Flash McGruder @ 09/25/2008 3:20:17 PM

      There was nothing in the Clinton housing initiative that forced lenders to write bad loans or structure loans that they knew that borrowers could not handle. Saying that McCain was trying to establish regulations is moose crap; McCain has said time and time again that he wanted to elimnate regulations. Nobody should forget that McCain was one of the Keating Five. Y'all gotta face the fact that the Republican party is controlled by rich business people and that middle and lower class Republicans are enablers. Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

      I agree that the Fed should held money to the people (end users) that have been screwed by financial institutions. If they don't have the testicular fortitude to force the lenders to do this, then I guess we could hope that the Treasury will do this after they use our money to buy bad loans. I also agree that everbody should e-mail Senators and House members and let them know how you feel: You can use www.senate.gov and www.house.gov to send an e-mail.

  • Posted By: InformedDiva2008 @ 09/25/2008 4:41:57 PM

    Its so easy to blame the individuals who forclosed on the properties. However have you ever thought to think the sneaky lenders who didn't reveal the truth of the loan, divorce and now the parent is raising children on their own, so the income can no longer suffice, or if a spouse died. Please now as one being on the other side of the fence, look at the reality of the situation than judging. We as a country will all come together and bring our economy back in realms.

    • Posted By: NJ to Miami @ 09/25/2008 5:01:16 PM

      Attn: Informed Diva 2008
      You are wrong. Percentage of foreclosures due to divorce or death is already figured into the equation and lenders are already protected against this calculated risk. For the first time in American history banks will now have to add into their calculations stupidity and greediness.

      How come everyone isnt taking out loans for a Rolls Royce? Because you know you cannot afford it. So how come you can't figure out a home loan?

  • Posted By: jill50 @ 09/25/2008 5:00:09 PM

    For the record 85billion divied by 200million is $425 not$425,000! Maybe this is why the consumer is in bad shape?

  • Posted By: jill50 @ 09/25/2008 4:57:36 PM

    For the record 85billion divided by 200million is only $425 not $425,000. Maybe this is why the consumer is in trouble?

  • Posted By: shillu @ 09/25/2008 4:57:22 PM

    Another thing that is not very clear is what is the governments exposure to AIG's CDS business if the economy deteriorates in the future - with the bailout, but more importantly, without the bailout.
    SJ

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