What is it Really Going to Cost?

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  • Posted By: Patriot1730 @ 09/25/2008 1:57:51 PM

    Everyone seems to forget that most of the safeguards for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were rolled back 12 years ago so more people could get mortgages. Things like proof of employment and amount of income. Now we are paying the price for THAT decision. How is that Bush's fault?? People are spending more than they can afford. How many do you think paid for big screen TVs, new cars and credit card debt with home equity?

  • Posted By: Omnius @ 09/25/2008 12:14:33 PM

    This phony financial crisis is just a Wall Street scam to steal taxpayer money in order for the rich fat cats on Wall Street to get their big golden parachutes. I sense a big scam in how this false "emergency" comes up just before Congress is due to recess and we all know that haste makes waste and we cannot trust Bush or McCain. "Flim Flam" Paulson tried to pull a quick one by asking us to trust him with a $700 billion blank check with no oversight or accountability. Congress should not rush to judgment the way it did 6 years ago, we know what a mess that phony Iraq war turned out to be and us taxpayers got stuck with a $700 billion boondoggle.

    I say let Wall Street pull itself up by it's own Bootstraps! Let's wait until after the elections to see how the market shakes out and let the new Congress and new president deal with the mess of the fundamental deregulators. This whole crisis is a repudiation of Reagan's Voo Doo Tinkle Down economics where we middle class Americans got the wrong Golden Shower that has left us all wet.

    • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 12:27:48 PM

      Phony (its phoney by the way) war? What on Earth are you talking about? There are millions of Iraqi's who are very happy that Hussein is gone. There are millions more who wish it had happened sooner... but they are in mass graves having been the victim of genocide. The only reason it seems phoney to you is because you are sitting comfortably in your office chair casting insults about things you don't even understand. Have there been mistakes? Sure... but there are bigger mistakes being made here... but people are too busy trying to cast stones at the President when they should be casting them at the corporate executives who ran this country into a recession and on the verge of a total collapse. Those are the people you should get mad at.

      • Posted By: trimm25 @ 09/25/2008 1:44:14 PM

        I was in Iraq, and am still not sitting behind a desk. I am of the same opinion as omnius though.

      • Posted By: does not work @ 09/25/2008 12:41:59 PM

        But Bush and the republican party were the great facilitator that allow wall street crooks to raid the economy and then create fear so the taxpayers will pay for and clean up there mess. It seems that is how most republican were raised.

        • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 1:23:05 PM

          Are you referring to the deregulation that the Democrats led the way on?

      • Posted By: jlivesay @ 09/25/2008 1:10:19 PM

        BTW, no one is arguing that Saddam was just "misunderstood". He was a monster along with his sons and countless Bathists and Sunni's that were his backers as long as they got a piece of the action. He deserved what he got. Now we have extremists running amok regardless of the "surge" propaganda. BTW, what would you do if a country actually could stand up to us. Drop a NUKE or two?

      • Posted By: jlivesay @ 09/25/2008 1:04:53 PM

        Yet things are pretty much the same in Iraq. Have YOU been to Iraq or do YOU rely on second hand info the same as we all mostly do.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/25/2008 12:20:41 PM

      Our cowboy president would say that we are sticking to the horse we rode in on. He's the one who promised to hunt him down and smoke him out. You know whom.

  • Posted By: glendaf @ 09/25/2008 12:22:09 PM

    Where were all the oversite committees and other folks who were supposed to oversee these financial institutions so this doesn't happen in the first place? How many the Congress have serious investments (shares, chairs on the board, kickbacks, etc)in these companies?

    • Posted By: trimm25 @ 09/25/2008 1:41:04 PM

      bush sent them home. so his rich buddies could get richer.

  • Posted By: bobkat810 @ 09/25/2008 12:51:32 PM

    George has cried wolf & lied to us every chance he got..now we have to believe him? I think not!..you know he's lying as his lips are moving..This economic failure goes back to NAFTA..Replacing manufacturing jobs with service jobs wont work and it didnt..Our government has sold us taxpoayers dont the river..

    • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 1:03:38 PM

      If you want to blame it on NAFTA feel free... but Bush didn't sign NAFTA... Bill Clinton did. At least point the finger in the right direction if you are going to point it.

      • Posted By: bobkat810 @ 09/25/2008 1:25:37 PM

        Raed it again, I do not blame Bush for NAFTA. NAFTA was that idiot Clintons folly.

  • Posted By: ojibwa @ 09/25/2008 1:11:36 PM

    Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses, and all the king's men, couldn't put Humpty together again.

  • Posted By: Garythebeancounter @ 09/25/2008 1:03:03 PM

    What about the fact the mortgages are secured by homes??? Even if thr original loan was 100% of the value of the property and the property has declined by 20% - 30% and figure 15% for selling, Treasury should be able to realize at least 50% of the original loan by foreclosing and reselling the home. And don't think for a second that a lot of borrowers were involved in this with liar loans. There is plenty of blame to place on the borrower who often took on a loan they knew they could not afford and signed an application with false information to get that loan. E

    • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 1:06:47 PM

      Amen. It is the American people who are to blame for this. It is the people taking the loans they knew they couldn't afford and the people who authorized those loans when they knew that they would not be paid back. The speculation in housing was a booming business for many years in the early 21st century, so was oil speculation, look where both have gotten us. Hopefully the government will do something to regulate these speculators and their actions which have crushed our economy.

  • Posted By: Chappy07 @ 09/25/2008 12:46:13 PM

    This bail out is fine and dandy for the companies receiving the money but it is still no help to the millions of people out of work. Oh did I say Millions? Yes the unemployment rate is now showing up at 7% and some states are even Higher. The problem is these are not true figures because so many people have run out of benefits they do not exist any more on the Unemployment list. So with all this money be flushed down the toilet to try and maybe help things out the big question is WHAT ABOUT THE JOBS!!!!!! We need good paying jobs for people and we need them now. Bush last night said again the economy is good in his speech???? What country does he live in? The economy really sucks right now but they are all to high and mighty to realize it. To most of them in office everyone makes more than 300k per year. Hello wake up and smell the real world where most people are barly squeeking by on less than 20-30k per year and that is with both parents working.
    Yes, Help is needed but not just to bail out these few companies with all the rich CEO's that make more money in a week than most people make in a year.

    • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 1:01:59 PM

      You make an excellent point Chappy. According to the census bureau the median family income in 1967 was a little over $30k per year. In 2007 that figure had climbed to just over $40k a year. In the last ten years alone the compensation for C level executives has doubled. Something is amiss... this is on top of the fact that 5% of this country's population controls 95% of its wealth.

  • Posted By: bobkat810 @ 09/25/2008 12:47:27 PM

    When you have to borrow $700 billion dollars to save your ass..its only time.The clock is ticking!

    Those CEO's, the administration, George, congress should return all the money they made at the taxpayers expense the past 8-10 years..crooks everyone of them..what happen to the fundalmentals of the economy are strong? form rags to riches and back in a blink of an eye?

  • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/25/2008 12:35:12 PM

    I have to say that from all I have read... I am far from convinced that this is going to solve any issues at all. All this does it get the people responsible for it off the hook. Now they can go back out and write a bunch more bad loans and cause the same catastrophe... only problem is the second time around... all the money to save it is gone. There have been others who have said it already... but let it collapse. The people who have been doing the right things will weather the storm. Those who haven't will crumble and fall where they should be. It is becoming embarassing to call myself an American watching how these "powerful" people act. You read articles about the "bail out" in the news and they are talking about how they don't want to let McCain and Obama into the talks because they don't want to share the credit with anyone else. These are our elected officials... acting like a bunch of spoiled little kids. We've gotten exactly what we deserve.

  • Posted By: pt2008 @ 09/25/2008 12:30:00 PM

    It's not a RESCUE!!!! IT'S A BAILOUT!!!!!!

  • Posted By: jlivesay @ 09/25/2008 12:28:05 PM

    God help Congress if they let the CEOs walk away with a golden parachute.

  • Posted By: pt2008 @ 09/25/2008 12:27:49 PM

    It's not a rescue!!!! It's a BAILOUT!!!!

  • Posted By: PoliticAl @ 09/25/2008 12:26:57 PM

    OK, two things.

    FIRST, you said, "At the end of June, about 2.75 percent of home mortgages were in foreclosure, and an additional 6.4 percent were at least 30 days behind in their payments. The unemployment rate was 6.1 percent in August. If it rose to 7 percent or higher, defaults and delinquencies would climb. In my example, if only 25 percent of borrowers repaid their mortgages, the government would lose money."

    How in the World do you go from 2.75% plus 6.1% and assumption of unemployment of 7% to a number that 75% will default on their mortgages?? That's ridiculously extreme and sounds like a scare tactic.

    SECOND, what are the actual numbers of banks that will be declared "failed" on 30Sep when the quarterly books are closed? And, of them, how many accounts are FDIC insured and for how much? That should be a baseline for the simple/easy method to find out the minimum the Fed would be on the hook to cover on that alone. What is THAT number?

  • Posted By: 4carol @ 09/25/2008 12:17:06 PM

    Whatever it costs us, we need to be covered as taxpayers and they need to be accountable in all aspects!!
    As far as Mr. Bush's speech last night, although the issue is of great concern and needs to be fixed as soon as possible, rushing into this type of trillion dollar issue is a mistake. Every item needs to be taken into account as we move forward with this before we hand over all our money with no backing.
    His speech, although he hasn't given one in over a year, was way too fear mongering; but then why would we expect anything else!! After all, that's how they pushed through the Iraq War so quickly!!!!
    Ignite fear and hopelessness, that's what he does best!!!!

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/25/2008 12:23:26 PM

      As i recall, he promised to "protect the American people". He kept the mosquitoes off of us while he deregulated the markets and let the crooks fleece the American Economy. But, give him credit. He didn't promise to "protect the American economy".

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/25/2008 12:14:21 PM

    None of the people cooking this remedy can tell us that we are not postponing the inevitable failure of our economy. Why wait? The sooner it all manifests, the sooner that we can rebuild a better system and get the crooks who caused it out of our lives. A goodly number of them should be fitted for striped suits. The kind of suits when worn on the street reveal an escapee from a nearby prison.

  • Posted By: kas_wolf @ 09/25/2008 12:02:21 PM

    I think these firms need to accept the failures. If they casused this mess - suffer. A bailout this big that gets government into the private banking sector is not a good plan at all.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/25/2008 11:33:53 AM

    What about cost overruns? How many government bids have you seen that didn't have a bunch of overruns? Especially when the bidder admits that he doesn't really know how much cost will be involved.

  • Posted By: hydrodev @ 09/25/2008 11:31:04 AM

    I want to own a piece of each company my tax money bails out. If im bailing them out, then i should have a fair stake in that companies stock or assets.

  • Posted By: hydrodev @ 09/25/2008 11:30:51 AM

    I want to own a piece of each company my tax money bails out. If im bailing them out, then i should have a fair stake in that companies stock or assets.

  • Posted By: Iconoblaster @ 09/25/2008 11:22:01 AM

    Just a thought. This bailout seems, once again, to be welfare for the wealthy... the institutions (and at least some of the individuals) that made the greatest blunders receive generous government assistance... the taxpayer is left holding the bag, with pie-in-the-sky suggestions that he MIGHT somehow make money on the deal, in the great bye-and-bye, and the little guys, the people losing their homes, are abandoned while we rescue the big bankers. If the securities the government is to be are already acknowledged to be worth less than face value, what about simply reducing the mortgages they represent by, say 10% across the board, up front (while they are still assets of the institutions that blew it), then negotiate a selling price on that basis. The lending institutions take a loss up front, but of known proportions that the markets can absorb and adapt to... the 10% reduction plus the discount at which the government buys the securitities... the burden and level of risk to the taxpayer is reduced by these same amounts, and with the benefit of a 10% reduction of their mortgage debt, fewer borrowers will be forced into foreclosure, more will be able to save their homes, and ultimate losses to the taxpayer holding the securities will be minimized. If we are determined to have the government step into this, must ALL the benefit, once again, accrue to the executive suites of the very insitutions that failed us so badly, while ALL the risk of a huge bailout is borne by ordinary Americans? Again?

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