‘We Should Join Hands’

The Dalai Lama says now he would accept China ' s rule in Tibet. Why don ' t you negotiate directly with him and solve this issue once and for all?
The Dalai Lama is a religious leader and enjoys certain influence in the Tibetan region. He is not an ordinary religious figure. The so-called government in exile founded by the Dalai Lama practices theocratic rule. And the purpose of this so-called government in exile is to separate Tibet from China. All over the world, the Dalai Lama keeps preaching about autonomy for the greater Tibetan region. He wants to separate the so-called greater Tibetan region from the motherland. Many people in the United States have no idea how big this region is; it covers Tibet, Sichuan, Yunnan, Qinghai and Gansu: a quarter of China's territory.

For decades, our policy [has been that] as long as the Dalai Lama is willing to recognize that Tibet is an inalienable part of China's territory, and as long as the Dalai Lama gives up his separatist activities, we're willing to have contact and talks with him or his representatives. Now, sincerity holds the key to producing results out of the talks.

What action would you like to see from the Dalai Lama that would show sincerity?
His sincerity can be demonstrated in giving up separatist activities. … Of course, talks may continue, and in light of the progress in the talks, we may also consider raising the level of the talks.

Premier Wen, your country has grown, as you pointed out, 9.5 percent for 30 years — the fastest growth rate of any country in history. What is the key to your success? What is the model?
[The answer is] the reforms and opening-up policy we introduced in 1978. We emancipated productivity in China. We had one important thought: that socialism can practice market economy.

People think that ' s a contradiction. How do you make both work?
Give full play to the basic role of market forces in allocating resources under the macroeconomic guidance and regulation of the government. Ensure that both the visible hand and the invisible hand are given full play. If you are familiar with Adam Smith, you will know that there are two famous works of his. "The Wealth of Nations" deals with the invisible hand: market forces. The other book deals with social equity and justice. In the other book, he stressed the importance of the regulatory role of the government to distribute wealth among the people. If most of the wealth in a country is concentrated in the hands of the few, this country can hardly [have] harmony and stability.

Some Americans and Europeans, particularly human-rights observers, say that China has cracked down on human rights over the last few years. They say they had hoped that the Olympics would lead to an opening, but there has been more repression. How would you respond?
By hosting the Olympics, China has become more open. Anyone without biases will see that. Freedom of speech and of media coverage are guaranteed in China. The Chinese government attaches importance to, and protects, human rights. We have incorporated these into the Chinese Constitution, and we also implement [them] in earnest. We don't think that we are impeccable in terms of human rights—it is true that in some places and in some areas, we have problems. Nonetheless, we are continuing to make improvements.

When I go to China and I ' m in a hotel and I type the words " Tiananmen Square " into my computer, I get a firewall, what some people call the Great Firewall of China. Can you be an advanced society if you don ' t have freedom of information?
China now has over 200 million Internet users and the freedom of the Internet in China is recognized by many, even in the West. To uphold state security, China, like many countries in the world, has also imposed some proper restrictions. On the Internet in China, you can have access to a lot of postings that are quite critical about the government. It is exactly through reading these critical opinions on the Internet that we try to locate problems and further improve our work. I don't think a system or a government should fear critical opinions or views.

What are your favorite sites?
I've browsed a lot of Web sites.

There is a photograph of you at Tiananmen Square in 1989. What lesson did you take from your experiences in dealing with that problem? Did you feel it was necessary to stop political reform? Do you think in 25 years there will be national elections in w hich there will be competition?
I believe that while moving ahead with economic reforms, we also need to advance political reforms, as our development is comprehensive in nature, our reform should also be comprehensive. I think the core of your question is about the development of democracy in China. When it comes to the development of democracy in China, we can talk about progress in three areas. No. 1: we need to gradually improve the democratic election system so that state power will truly belong to the people and state power will be used to serve the people. No. 2: we need to improve the legal system, run the country according to law, and [have] an independent and just judicial system. No. 3: government should be subject to oversight by the people. That will [require] us to increase transparency in government affairs. It is also necessary for government to accept oversight by the news media and other parties.

We need to take into account China's national conditions and we need to introduce a system that suits China's special features and we need to introduce a gradual approach.

It's hard for me to predict what will happen in 25 years. This being said, I have this conviction: that China's democracy will continue to grow. In 20 to 30 years, Chinese society will be more democratic and fairer and the legal system will be improved. Socialism as we see it will further mature and improve.

People say you ' re studying the Japanese system because there ' s democracy, but only one party seems to win elections. Is that the model you see for China?
There are multiple forms of democracy in the world. What is important is whether it really represents the interests of the people. Socialism as I understand it is a system of democracy. And such a democracy first and foremost should serve to ensure the people's right to democratic elections, oversight and decision making. Such a democracy should also help people to develop themselves in an all-around way in an environment featuring freedom and equality. And such a democracy should be based on a full-fledged legal system.