If congress bails out wall street then I think congress should not tax early withdraw of retirement. people will need it to payoff debt if the economy collapse and main street deserves at least one break. so, how about it?
If congress bails out wall street then I think congress should not tax early withdraw of retirement. people will need it to payoff debt if the economy collapse and main street deserves at least one break. so, how about it?
I'm so sick and tired of the GOP, and Democrats blaming each other. Don't they realize the public doesn't care who's fault it is, that we as a nation just want these problems fixed. These people never seem to get that they are there to represent us, not themselves! Get over yourselves and do what your there to do.
The portion of the public that "doesn't care whose fault it is" (which really means they are too lazy to pay attention, and find OUT whose fault it is) , is part of the problem. If you don't know what went wrong, your chances of fixing it are poor, and your odds of avoiding the same problem in the future are worse. If you don't know who screwed up, and how, you might as well just stay home on election day, because YOU have already failed your duty as a citizen.
WE are citizens of a Republic. WE are resonsible, legally, morally and practically, for what our government does in our name....what we PERMIT our government to do in our name. We WILL bear the consequences, one way or the other, so perhaps its time to find out which (if either) of these parties is coming closer to the truth, and maybe then you will have a CHANCE to figure out who should be trusted at the helm for the next four years.
There is enough blame in this situation to go around. Wall Street, Main Street, Democrats & Republicans share responsibility for this mess. From 1999 on, there have been terrible decisions made that have brought us to this point. People who aren't too busy playing the blame game already know how this happened; the question now is what do we do to fix it or do nothing at all and let the chips fall where they may. Pointing fingers isn't going to solve this problem. If you see fingers pointing, then I'll bet if you look hard enough, you'd see several more pointing back. We should all tell them to SHUT UP & GET TO WORK!
There is plenty of blame to go around, on that we agree. If its true that already know what went wrong, then you also already know who is to blame, and you don't need to fuss about this. Typically, the loudest of those whining that "this is no time to blame anyone" are those who ARE to blame; listening to THEM is a recipe for never figuring out what went wrong...and again, if you don't know what went wrong, you will have little chance of fixing it, and almost NO chance of avoiding the same thing in the future.
You are so right President Obama! Anyone that votes for McCain is stupid, naive and needs their head examined. He is definitiely more of the same in a big way, Why do you think he likes to sling mud? He has no issues to run on. His ideas could fit on the back of a business card. Wise up those thinking a war hero can run the country. Check his voting record or lack thereof before you cast your vote. Once you check his record see for yourself if he voted with Bush 90% of the time. Wise up people. Too many people have been walking around with their head in the sand for 8 years. When are you going to wake up? Are you waiting until you are jobless and homeless before you realize that is not the way to go?
DON`T BLAME GEORGE BUSH!!!!The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of congress! The Democrat Congress!! Actually this whole mess is Democratic Party fault!
Hey Bama redneck... i guess your saying you voted for "the war president?"
Gee people like you voted in two ex-oilmen with huge ties to big business and wonder what happen?
Do the nation a favor learn to read then actually do some reading!
We have had a democratic congress for slightly less than two years now and for the prior six years it was controlled by republicans. Your argument does not stand up to the actual facts.
I'm sorry for all you party pundits but let's face it. we're all at fault here. It's time to stop the blame game and for all us American's to shoulder it. The fact is , we, and I mean all American's, were responsible for this financial mess. From real estate agents, to loan agents, to the construction industry, on down to every day people getting easy credit for TV's, cars, houses, etc. we asked for it and now we're all paying. If you truly look at how the economy works, you will see that when the boom was going, we all benefited in some way or another. Some, of course, benefitted much better than others, but the fact remains, most american's either got paid well (i.e. those in the building and lending industy), or received goods/services on cheap credit. For those who do not believe they were responsible for this mess, ask youself one question, did you buy something on credit or get paid by someone who did?? We're all to blame and I for one, will accept responsibility for my poriton of this financial mess and vow to reign in my frivilous spending habits and pay for my mistakes. How about you, what will you do? Continue to complain and place blame?
OH no you don't this economic crisis is the direct result of failed economic policies perpetrated by the "trickle downers" who cut taxes on the wealthy, attacked labor unions, free marketed our work force into lower wages and outsourcing jobs overseas. This is also,L the failure of the Rpublican strategy to deregulate and failure to govern and enforce the laws of the country in the last eight years especially on immigration and financial markets. This is not a failure on the part of Democrats to perform. THE FAILURE OF THE FINANCIAL MARKETS NOT A DEMOCRATIC FAILURE TO PERFORM, IT IS THE REPUBLICAN UNREALISTIC FAITH IN THE FREE MARKET. Economics is pure immoral market theory absent human behavior and response. The Republicans act like purists who just don't understand human frailties, greed, envy. You know with all the movies about glorified criminals and how clever people can be in fleecing their neighbor, it seems incredulous that so called intelligent human beings always seem to discount the need for laws and regulations, or there is chaos and there is chaos on Wall Street right now and the Republicans are responsible.
The trouble with reliance on complex government regulations to control the sharks (including the Wall Street variety) is that the sharks have more interest in those regulations than anyone else, so they are the ones who hire lobbyists and make big campaign contributions to the politicians who craft the regs, or who appoint the commissioners that do so...the sharks end up in nearly total control of "Shark Control Laws". Consider the recent "reform" of bankruptcy laws. Consider how the federal government has facilitated the worst credit practices by shielding credit card companies from attempts at meaningful state laws. Lets say you have a problem with a credit card company, and that company makes substantial donations to the campaign coffers of various legislators. When you and that company both contact your Congressman, which of you will the Congressman listen to?
Why a $700 billion(s?) bailout for the "investment" banks and "credit swaps" insurance companies but not for the "greedy" homeowner? Consider this:
That $700,000,000,000.00 equals lets say 7,000,000 mortgages at $100,000. each. What if all default back payments and related costs were tacked onto the back of home mortgages and the approximately $100,000. (weighted) for each mortgage from this bailout fund was split amongst all home mortgages and applied to each mortgage balance thereby lowering the mortgage payments etc. to somewhat reflect the present value of these homes and take the undue pressure off the homeowner.. Not only would this money go into the banking system as in the present bailout idea, but it would provide the basis for again introducing value into the U. S. home market--thus by bringing "subprime" mortgage loans up to par. This mortgage direct credit plan immediately revalues the troubled mortgages and morphs that "valueless" paper into viable loans. Voila, the squeeze causing our credit problems due to the mortgage collapse dissappears.
This leaves the hedge funds and other hugely speculative firms to handle their own problems. These firms have been profitting greatly on highly speculative derivatives and credit swaps by risky leveraging. When they guess wrong, they get "margin calls"--that's the nature of the beast. Yet they too will also obtain some relief through the tricke down effects of this mortgage direct credit plan.
People, on the other hand, have to live somewhere. They all, argueably, pay for home mortgages either directly or through landlords. When given the chance to own their own home--The American Dream--they jump at the chance. What's wrong with protecting the American people, the related banks, and the secondary market instead just limiting the bailout to specualtors only?
The reality is tha tany bailout is but a temporary fix. If serious rules regulating the federal reserve, the hedge funds, credit swaps, and the like, are not put in place, the federal reserve will remain incapable policing the American economy. The federal reserve has become an organization bent on protecting the net worth of a very few super wealthy to the detriment of the middle and lower classes.
Although there are many contributing factors to blame for this economic meltdown, the kneejerk severe and incessant increasing of the fed funds rate from 1% in 2003 to the high of 5.25% on June 29,2006 has been the primary cause of this credit crisis. By raising these rates so quickly, the economy did not have a chance to self correct. There was not enough time allowed for each new rate move to be digested before yet another panicky change was made. We all knew that the federal reserve lost control of the beast. Whatever it is that the federal reserve does now, they must act with intelligent proaction for the benefit of entire American populace not just rely upon
republicans always want to blame a problem on someone else. The fact is NOBODY wants to vote for this bill however someone has to. When will you sorry excuse for people republicans start taking responsibility for something when the lack of oversite that your failed leaders supported overwhelmingly over the last eight years. Admit it you failed. Get used to president Obama its coming!
Bush gave us a war based on subversion and duplicity that when added to the financial crisis together have placed the nation in great peril! In some sort of sick way the terrorists attack of 9/11 worked.
The murderers wanted to destroy our economy and divide the nation... Impeachment would be to kind for the likes of "W" "the war president," Cheney, the org, Donald the idiot, Rove and Rice and even Colin Powell!
What I don't understand is why, if we are going to spend 400B, we don't just stabilize the faulty mortgages. If we implemented a program to adjust the mortgages in jeapardy, the bad debt would be less bad. We stabilize both main street and wall street.
That makes way too much sense. Congress will neger do it.
I believe we are seeing the effects of the "now" generation. These people want it all, and they want it now. They can't save for that car, house, ATV, WII or XBox, boat and other toys. The result is overextended buyers living well beyond their means, and mortgaged to the limit with thousands more in credit card debt. Yes, and these people are in business as well, making decisions for companies, who also want it all and now. Well, you got what you wanted. When you buy a house, the value may go up or it may go down - just like a stock. You have to learn to live with your own mistakes. Either bear with the times, or cut your loses short and take a licking. We will survive, although not without some pain. But, getting the government involved takes away our free enterprise system. The free economy system is self-correcting based on supply and demand curves, Time always corrects good and bad cycles. Don't throw good money after bad.
I see you missed the class on the Great Depression.
Which class would that be? Debates on the underlying causes of the Depression, and what forces were at work that actually got us out of it, have not been resolved. Many commentators blame "free enterprise" for it, despite the obvious fact that we didn't HAVE truly free enterprise at the time (or ever), and most of the great fortunes involved...including all those of the legendary "Robber Barons"....were the product not of free enterprise, but of government interventions (principally those surrounding the building of the railroads)...government contracts and subsidies, licensing and franchise arrangements, emminent domain, corrupt tax and labor policies and "look-the-other-way" government agencies at every level (even including using local police violence to break up unions). If you want to criticize free market theory, you will need to look somewhere besides the Great Depression for an example of a genuine free market that has failed. Of course, discussion of any of that would require more depth than is required to make snide comments about the purported ignorance of the person you are criticizing. Maybe you missed the class on that one.
The House has rejected the bailout. The stock market hit has probably cost everyday Americans, in the last few minutes, more money than the entire 4700 billion. OK, now what? Everybody complains, nobody comes up with a workable alternative.
To those who complained: now you know that if you can't get a mortgage, car loan, home improvement loan, an increase in your credit card limit, that new TV, you can't get a paycheck, your employer cancels the project you were working on, etc., etc. you know where to point the finger, at yourself.
Now what? Now let the big-money players take their own hit. Don't buy things on credit. If you want something, save up and buy it. Don't trust your money to people who claim that, if you only give them your money, they will make you rich. If their ideas were so good, they would use their OWN money to make a bundle for themselves. Its time to wake up and realize they are scamming us all.
Iconoblaster, you clearly are not familiar with the most basic business principles. The big money players have already taken huge hits and are on the unemployment line ahead of you. As I said we need a WORKABLE alternative.
Thats nice. When you find difficulty refuting some point of argument, merely become condescending, and remark about how ignorant the other fella is. I know enough about finance and economics to recognize when someone is being taken for a ride... and by the way, I work for a living, and owe no debt at all. If you care to make some substantive argument with anything I wrote above, I'd love to hear it. I'll be waiting patiently for my lesson in the mysteries of the "dismal science."
Oh, and the "big money players" HAVEN'T all taken a hit on this. Many bailed out on their golden parachutes long ago, and many others, after making bad loans, SOLD the bum mortgages to others. I'm not just talking about the CEOs who ran companies into the ground, and STILL rode off into the sunset with $10 million, $50 million, $100 million bonuses, but also the top ranks of their underlings, who pocketed rich salaries and fat bonuses for years (money the most cuplable of them still have...those that saw this coming, took the money and ran). For people struggling to avoid becoming homeless, the travails of the wealthy elites who can no longer make the country club dues and may have to sell their yacht, are really heart-wrenching.
i'm watching fox - they are in total denial about the Republican financial free-fall.
Russia has a GOLD backed ruble. How are they faring this week?
The GOP ridiculed Ron Paul during the primaries, but it looks like the fiat money system / central banking is finally running its course.
It is easy to blame the uninformed that get suckered in. That has always been the way of our system. The con artist is never to blame, blame the conned for being conned.
Our government sold us a bill of goods, allowing the con artists to run amuck.
Take note: Those at the top did not lose much if anything. OK, corporate subdivisions lost some money so instead of the parent banking $10 billion they banked 8. Their CEO???s got $10 + million exit bonus; regular employees get 2 weeks severance pay if lucky.
The bailout/rescue plan insures the con artists don???t lose any money, even though for the past few years they have been really raking it in. They rarely lose anyway. The small investor loses and the employee loses.
The con artists are smart enough to tie everything their systems insuring that if they do not see the profits they want, we paid thru the nose.
Maybe the failure of this bill to pass is going to hurt mainstream America. What the hell, mainstream America is who always gets hurt in any financial crisis. Maybe it is time to try to get a pound of flesh from the big boys.
This crisis goes deeper than is mentioned in this article. A lot of articles have focused on the bank failures without covering the Main Street woes that are really part of the cause of this, except in an offhand way.
Americans have been buying on credit now for decades. The personal savings rate is probably the best symptom of what I consider to be the real problem here - which is that Americans have not managed their money very well. I've been as guilty of this as any.
We need to stop blaming Wall Street - undoubtedly their greed, the CEO salaries, and the massive derivative market didn't really help things, and in fact hurt them very badly. But if Americans hadn't bought toxic, time-bomb, usurious adjustable-rate mortgages, and spent themselves into debt on non-necessity consumer goods, we'd all be better equipped to get through this. We haven't.
The whole economy is set up to support this lavish consumer model fueled by credit. I don't understand why everyone seems to think that running one's business on credit after that business has achieved some success is thought to be "normal". American retail is also set up around an easy-credit model where Americans spend far more money on consumer goods than is healthy. Retailers have set up their stores and income models based on this and spent unsustainably as a result.
And I don't think we've learned the lesson. I think most Americans still believe that their own income is more important than the well-being of the community, and that somehow this will all be gotten through and that things will go back to "normal". The truth is that our economy has deep fundamental cracks that are widening. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I think it's going to get worse for awhile, because what's going to happen is that a lot of Main Street is going to wrongly blame immigrants for this mess, and companies are going to spend time litigating for the remaining money before realizing, collectively and too late, that they won't get it anyway because there's just not enough real production to justify enough figures on paper to resolve what everyone claims they should have.
We've abused our prosperity, guys, and we are going to lose it as a result, and lose it until we realize that sound economies are based on sound manufacturing and service and not trying to screw your neighbor for his/her paper.
I don't always agree with you, TheVigil, but you always give the reader something to think about...and you tend to very civil discourse (something not to be taken for granted in this medium). I think you are right on the money this time, by the way. The problem here was a very general failure of many, many people to live within their means.
Agree about the debt - but getting manufacturing back to the states will be tough when you cannot operate in a "free market". When unemployment hits 15% (and it probably will) there would be lines forming for factory work, but with over zealous laws for minimum wage, gov't handouts, unions and employee protection it is impossible to compete with the rest of the global economy. It doesn't make sense for a mfgr to move operations back to the states until we can peel the liberal policies that actually inhibit mfgr'ing growth.
Your part of the problem not the solution. You sound like a globalist.
Some of it is indeed pretty egregious.
I disagree about minumum wage, and that is big. I'd like to think we can pay our workers enough to live - but other countries routinely don't, and therefore do undercut costs. But you pay an increased societal burden in crime, urban decay, and public health when people don't make enough to live on.
I do agree about the unions. I was in a restaurant one day where one of the servers was disallowed by union regulations to cut a piece of cake we were buying, because only the cooks could use knives, and that was when I decided that the unions had become institutions that coddled and corrupted workers, whatever their fine and noble intentions used to be. I don't disagree with their existence, but their power has to be broken.
And I most especially agree with tort law. The big and warranted social-justice cases make the paper. The thousands of frivolous tort claims where people want handouts don't, and they're destroying the economy as much as anything else.
Somehow there has to be a balance.
It is easy to blame the uninformed that get suckered in. That has always been the way of our system. The con artist is never to blame, blame the conned for being conned.
Our government sold us a bill of goods, allowing the con artists to run amuck.
Take note: Those at the top did not lose much if anything. OK, corporate subdivisions lost some money so instead of the parent banking $10 billion they banked 8. Their CEO???s got $10 + million exit bonus; regular employees get 2 weeks severance pay if lucky.
The bailout/rescue plan insures the con artists don???t lose any money, even though for the past few years they have been really raking it in. They rarely lose anyway. The small investor loses and the employee loses.
The con artists are smart enough to tie everything their systems insuring that if they do not see the profits they want, we paid thru the nose.
Maybe the failure of this bill to pass is going to hurt mainstream America. What the hell, mainstream America is who always gets hurt in any financial crisis. Maybe it is time to try to get a pound of flesh from the big boys.
I always listen to postings from "Alabama Rednecks" Now we know why the South LOST the Civil War.
I just don't understand how so many Americans do not link this financial crisis to the sheer moral bankruptcy of the Bush administration. Why does W always get off the hook? See what an unregulated economy has brought forth? Wake up people.
I am absolutely shocked by the number of Americans who still do not connect this economic crisis with the mess that is the Bush administration. I don't understand how W always gets off the hook. Clearly, an unregulated economy led to this fiasco. Wake up people.
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