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Nonsense in Nashville

McCain and Obama debated for the second time, in Nashville. We noted some misleading statements and mangled facts.

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  • Posted By: Palin who? @ 10/29/2008 3:11:06 PM

    When Bush got in, all the neocons came out of the closet, but if Barack Obama wins, their divisive strategies will be challenged. The White House will no longer welcome or be a home to born-again bigots, torture apologists, habeas corpus revokers and the rest of the industriofascist entourage. I also expect that censored truth commissions, muzzled scientists, harassed librarians, bought appointees and coerced generals will cease to be an issue under Obama's leadership. As he extricates us from Iraq, perhaps he could deliver us and the Iraqis from the Shock and Awe strategists, Blackwater barbarians and Halliburton robber barons.

  • Posted By: krohn2 @ 10/22/2008 5:09:25 PM

    FactCheck.Org is owned by the Annenberg group of Chicago! Talk about a conflict of interest! And Obama has been telling people on the trail to check out the site to verify his opponents claims. Funny, every time that he endorsed something, it turns out to be a part of his spin machine! Like he raised objections in the primaries when Indiana required photo I.D. to vote. He Protested that It took away people's right to vote! I
    knew then and there that he was up to no good! America, wake up from the MASS HYPNOSIS!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg&feature=related

  • Posted By: mccainsupporter @ 10/15/2008 3:03:23 PM

    Why Bill Ayers is important to this campaign?
    John McCain should make the argument personal and something that the American people can identify and understand. John McCain views Bill Ayers as a founder of the Weathermen and Weather Underground and also founder of the Students for Democratic Society SDS on the campus of the University of Michigan. The University of Michigan had held the first sit-in against the war. John McCain and the other 600 Vietnam POWs believe Bill Ayers was responsible for prolonging the war and causing them to receive extra beatings by the North Vietnamese for refusing to show their exuberance for the antiwar effort in the United States. The North Vietnamese fought even harder and refused to negotiate or return our POWs given the organized antiwar protests in the United States. All the North Vietnamese had to do was wait and domestic antiwar protests orchestrated by Bill Ayers would cause the United States to surrender. John McCain spent five and half years as a POW and personally received extra beatings because of Bill Ayers. Barack Obama views Bill Ayers as a reformed domestic terrorist who did despicable things in the past but should be given a second chance today. For Barack Obama there was never a need to keep a distance from Bill Ayers. Maybe if Barack Obama could have walked in John McCain???s shoes for just one day and suffered just one of the extra beatings that John McCain endured for five and a half years because of Bill Ayers and his Weathermen antiwar movement then maybe Barack Obama might appreciate a need to keep a distance from Bill Ayers. Along with the SDS Students for Democratic Society, Weathermen Underground, the Black Panther Party also actively opposed the Vietnam War. Barack Obama received the support of Southside Chicago Congressman and former Black Panther party member Bobby L. Rush during his bid for the Illinois US Senate seat. The Black Panther Party along with the Weathermen Underground prolonged John McCains captivity and caused him to receive extra beatings. It is ironic, that Bill Ayers led the antiwar protests during the Vietnam era that caused John McCain to receive extra beatings and to experience nearly six years of captivity, and today Barack Obama has been leading antiwar calls against the Iraq war. Barack Obama can not understand why John McCain is not happy that Barack Obama has not kept a distance from Bill Ayers. If Barack Obama had walked in John McCain???s or any of the other 600 American POWs shoes one day, he would have no problem understanding why he should have kept his distance from Bill Ayers. The word shunning comes to mind. If Barack Obama would have shunned Bill Ayers and members of the Black Panthers Party there would be no issue in tonights debate.

    • Posted By: ConsciousSpirit @ 10/22/2008 2:39:44 PM

      I take objection to many of yur points here but for starters which Americans don't understand White America or Black. As for me, being African American many issues related here are extremely clear.
      Enduring beatings and held captive, walking in some elses shoes?!
      Before we begin to hand out out the unjustices we must come to a place whereby as Americans (of all ethnicites we understand all of the injustices committed an experienced. It didn't start with the injustice experienced by McCain. There are many issues as "One Nation Under God" we need to give serious attention to. Obama I believe comes to the table with a greater unerstanding of the diversity that must be addressed, thereby the better candidate for the job in a time such as this .

  • Posted By: krohn2 @ 10/21/2008 12:25:42 AM

    This is so true about how the election is already bought and paid for:
    http://www.againstobama.com/2008/10/what-is-it-that-barack-obama-knows-that-the-rest-of-us-don%E2%80%99t/#comment-1929

  • Posted By: krohn2 @ 10/20/2008 8:55:19 PM

    Obama, the excuses are wearing thin. what excuse do you have for this one?:
    http://www.againstobama.com/2008/10/obama-praised-searing-and-timely-book-by-ayers/

  • Posted By: mccainsupporter @ 10/14/2008 12:32:40 PM

    How can we trust Barack Obama on health care if he is a smoker?

    Would not someone who really wants to hold down healthcare costs want to quit smoking. Is Barack Obama a chain smoker or not?

    If he is only a closet smoker and not transparent by smoking in public and admitting that he has a nicotine addiction then how can we trust him on other issues that are truly grave?

    Does he smoke a lot of cigarettes only when he plays poker with his Chicago friends or is it a daily habit? We want to know if Barack Obama is going to promise to not chain smoke around Joe Biden because Joe Biden had asthma as a teenager.

    The reason that Joe Biden could not fight for his country in 1968 during the peak of the Vietnam War was that he had teenage asthma. Joe Biden had horribly bad luck, ninety percent of all children are diagnosed with asthma before age six but Joe Biden was unlucky enough to be in the ten percent group of children who acquire asthma after age six and became asthmatic when he was a teenager. After five student deferments while he attended college and law school, his teenage asthma finally came to the attention of his local Selective Service Board and he missed the opportunity to serve his country during time of war as an officer.

    But for his bad luck with his teenage asthma diagnosis, Joe Biden could have gone in and served his country honorably as a officer and a gentleman and perhaps as a Judge Advocate Law Officer similar to his son.

    We hope that Barack Obama will not smoke in front of Joe Biden because the smoke could aggravate Joe???s asthma that prevented him from serving his country during time of war.

    We can not trust Barack Obama on health care if he is a smoker.

  • Posted By: Nowforthetruth @ 10/12/2008 8:04:29 PM

    This link of a CSPAN video clip may help set the context, as these hearings were at the time of McCains attempt at S.190.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

    "Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis"

  • Posted By: wendydk @ 10/11/2008 9:02:33 PM

    Sarah Palin is a traitor to America and to her party.

    Palins un-American activities
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/index.html

    Alaskan Independence Party chairwoman Lynette Clark talks about why she does not identify herself as an American, and about her kindred spirit Sarah Palin.
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/10/alaska_secession/index.html

    The pastor who clashed with Palin
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/index.html

    Troopergate Report Concludes Palin Abused Power. Full 263 Page report here???
    http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf

    Palins Attack On Obamas Patriotism Legitimizes Questions About her Association With Group Founded By America-Hating Secessionist
    http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/palins_attack_on_obamas_patrio.php

    Palin And The Alaska Independence Party
    http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_alaska_independence_party.php

  • Posted By: ChicoCDM @ 10/11/2008 3:39:19 PM

    Could we possibly have the WORST two candidates at a time like this. Its really going to come down to the less of two evils. Obama is an absolutely risky option for America. His past is one that makes us wonder why presidential candidates dont' have to submit to background check unortunately we won't know the truth about Obama until its VERY embarssing to America and probably after the election. McCAIN is jus tthe most uninspiring candidate in recent history - a guy who is hung on principles only HE seems to understand.

  • Posted By: merynmn2 @ 10/09/2008 12:00:42 AM

    3 men brought down wall street. These same 3 men now work for Obama campaign. How interesting.
    if Obama gets in the white house, and if the congress is democratic majority, can't u see where he will take us? down, down, down.........into socialism, depression, and God only knows what all......honesty people, is what we want in a president. Seek truth about the character of these two candidates...forget their color, look at their beliefs, their characters, their voting records. Just that and u will see who IS the best one to lead.

    • Posted By: adalai @ 10/10/2008 11:47:13 PM

      three men... really three men

  • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 10/09/2008 2:20:13 PM

    It's about character, stupid! Obama admits to knowing Ayers but won't admit to being influenced by Ayers. He admits using drugs, but won't admit selling drugs. He admits to living in a Muslim home in Indonesia, but won't admit to being Muslim (at any time). He admits traveling to Pakistan and being familiar with Shiites and Sunnis but won't admit there was a travel ban for US citizens during his trip. He admits being a member of Rev. Wright's church but won't admit he was influenced in any negative way by Rev. Wright. Is it possible that none of these things influenced him, or he has overcome all negative circumstances and relationships to become the best darn president ever? He show a lot of shuck and awe, but not much integrity.

    • Posted By: adalai @ 10/10/2008 11:41:01 PM

      "It's about character, stupid!"-Randyhiggins.... I love your choice of words..... your last word there... yeah, the "stupid" part, really does the Republican party justice... makes me want to go out and change my party...

      I really don't like to see people stoop to the level of a child; it makes me wonder if the American people are even capable of making a decision as important as electing a president.

      We do need to unite, regardless of what you might think is good for you... because many and lots of people are about to lose their home, they have already lost their money in the stock market (bye bye 401Ks), we are losing our tax money which goes to important things like schools, libraries, etc... to putting corporations on welfare. We as a country need to come together, and forget this elephant and donkey.

  • Posted By: mccainsupporter @ 10/10/2008 10:52:21 AM

    Has anyone noticed the inverse relationship and correlation between the Barack Obama-Joe Biden campaign ticket stock seemingly going up and every stock on Wall Street going down. Is there a cause and effect between any seeming growing momentum behind an Obama election and the continuing recent real stock market crash? Wall Street is about future expectations and the expectations are that Barack Obama will not help our economy if he is elected. Wall Street and the world knows that an Obama election will not be good for business. A vote for John McCain will be a vote for our economic recovery. If you want to keep your job or have a future please vote John McCain. Get out there and vote for John McCain. Get your friends to vote for John McCain. Vote John McCain!!!!!!!! Vote John McCain!!!!!

    • Posted By: adalai @ 10/10/2008 11:29:31 PM

      have you noticed the fall of the stock market since the decline of home value... the increase of money going to a tax funded war? have you noticed the drop of the stock market mirrored that of the American dollar? Have you noticed the drop of the market happens to reflect the loss of American jobs outsourced by corporations? Have you noticed that your neighbors are losing everything but what they can carry on their back. I live in a coastal city in California... very nice area... There's five foreclosed homes within a two block area... Stop going for a party... start arguing for Americans! We are the people... not the candidates! What do you want? Who is more realistic? What can be solved if we're divided?

  • Posted By: sugarmom @ 10/10/2008 2:21:35 PM

    Why do you want someone with questionable character be President? To hold the highest office , you must be someone the people can trust. Obama has shown bad judgement day one by not admitting to his assocations to Reverd Wright , Ayers and the others. He can not blame everything by pretending ignorance. The American ppeople are not stupid. The media Obama and the Democrates should wake up to that reazliation.

    • Posted By: adalai @ 10/10/2008 11:15:44 PM

      Questionable character: "Ahead of Friday's hearing, Palin supporters wearing clown costumes and carrying balloons denounced the probe as a "kangaroo court" and a "three-ring circus" led by supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama."
      Clowns... they dressed up like clowns. Do you understand the implications of her supporters dressing up?
      One member of the Palin audience in Jacksonville, Florida, Tuesday shouted out "treason." And at another rally in the state Monday, Palin's mention of the Obama-Ayers tie caused one member to yell out: "kill him" --
      Yes.... Character IS everything....
      and the people coming out of the woodworks to support Mccain and Palin have absolutely blown my mind.

  • Posted By: Hoot @ 10/10/2008 3:03:09 PM

    Why would we want someone who is still promoting the same fundamentals as the current administration? Why would we want someone who is going to tax health insurance benefits? Why would we want to not have more regulation on areas of the market and country that are failing? Capitalism is an awesome thing, but it brings alot of greed when loopholes are created and not closed, or if the proper regulations aren't set up. I'm a republican, but I think we need more regulation that doesn't solely let areas like health insurance and greedy investors run over the American people and use the excuse that the markets will take care of themselves and weed out the bad. Obviously that hasn't worked. People need to wake up and stop playing the political B.S. game of whether a republican or democrat or conservative or liberal is in office and go off the issues!!! If you can't get elected other than calling someone names, instead of explaining your plan to deal with the problems we are in, then obviously you either shouldn't be in office, or you don't know what your stance on the issues are, or you don't want the voters to know your policies very well.

    • Posted By: sugarmom @ 10/10/2008 3:35:11 PM

      Are you saying even though Obama has shown bad judgement, in his personal life, we should trust him with our lives? I don't think I want someone who id dishonest about his life, been disloyal to his country.

      • Posted By: adalai @ 10/10/2008 11:00:49 PM

        Do you trust Mccain-Palin to not put your life in danger with a war? Both who embrace the use of ammunition. Or would you trust someone with a bigger vocabulary to defend your country's stance, in doing so not placing your life in danger. Many other countries support not even getting to the point of war... and so do I. I KNOW WE can work our way through disagreements with words, not bombs (which would put your family in danger).

  • Posted By: Nowforthetruth @ 10/10/2008 4:21:19 PM

    Obama is getting a bump out of this because people are not being reminded of the whole history where the economy is concerned, and who did what when. Call it bias by omission. The media simply says that the economy is Obamas strong issue, but never discusses the facts in detail. Further, who had a majority when is rarely relevant. If the simplistic Party In Power model were true, then the Democrats would not have needed the House Republicans when they tried to pass the bailout bill, as Democrats have the majority in both houses and there is no threat of a veto. In theory, they do not need the Republicans to vote at all. In fact, something like twelve (12) Democrats from Barney Franks own banking committee voted against the bill. Obviously, it is not so simple and the media does the voter a disservice by doing little more than reinforcing the error. A similar argument would be to say that the economy appeared to be doing fine until the Democrats took over control of Congress and the power of the purse in 2006, then it tanked. As an aside, the media also misleads regarding the Clinton economy when they fail to mention that it also ended in a recession, requiring the first round of Bush stimulus checks immediately after he took office..


    Do Obama and the Democrats deserve a lift in the polls as a result of the financial and mortgage problems? The answer from history is a clear NO. Here's the lead of a New York Times story on September 30, 1999:

    "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending" [link below]. That's 1999 folks. Clinton Administration, I believe.

    Here's the lead of a New York Times story on Sept. 11, 2003:

    "The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. "[see link below] The Democrats killed the reforms.

    McCain said in co-sponsoring the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190:

    "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole. The Democrats killed the Bill.

    What was Barney Frank and fellow Democrats saying at the time of these attempted reforms? According to reports, Representative Barney Frank(D-MA) claimed of the thrifts :

    "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

    Representative Mel Watt (D-NC) added of the reforms "I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing." [ See Community Reinvestment Act,

  • Posted By: Nowforthetruth @ 10/10/2008 4:21:08 PM



    Even Bill Clinton points to liberal Congressional Democrats??? protection of Fannie and Freddie from scrutiny as a primary cause of the current economic meltdown.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsynspIqAoE

    The link below contains a purported list of the top 25 in Congress who got contributions from the folks at Fannie and Freddie. Obama is listed third, after Dodd and Kerry, even though Obama is just a junior Senator. Obama is followed next by Clinton. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi are on the list as well.

    http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080918

    Then there is the Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd who allegedly got special mortgage deals from Countrywide, who gave preferential rates to 'friends' of company's chairman.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25140560/

    For an interesting article purporting to detail the House Financial Services Committee Chairs long history with Fannie Mae, See http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080924145932.aspx

    "House Financial Services Committee Chair promoted GSEs while former 'spouse' was Fannie Mae executive."

    The link below describes how some in Congress tried to use the original version of the bailout bill to divert money eventually recovered to groups like ACORN, a group Obama has a long association with. See:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    And then there is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who allegedly has directed nearly $100,000 from her political action committee to her husband's real estate and investment firm.

    http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/oct/01/pelosis-pac-pays-bills-for-spouses-firm.

    See also:
    http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080918

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

    http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=M2QwNDhkZTg2OGYzZjkzM2E2NDEwM2U5OGVkNTc0YzU=

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260

    http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080924145932.aspx

    http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080926

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    Where is the article about Joe Bidens longstanding relationship with the credit card industry lobby? Is that what you call looking out for the middle class?

  • Posted By: sugarmom @ 10/10/2008 3:45:29 PM

    Are you not judged by your charactera dr bad judgements? What are your requirements for President ? Some one who has been dishonest from the first about their relations with terrorist, , and Reverend Wright, and the others. Character IS everything!

  • Posted By: itshotinnc @ 10/10/2008 2:47:01 PM

    Why do you want someone with questionable judgement to be President? Will McCain choose other cabinet seats similar to the way he chose Pallin, what's best for my popularity? The most important decision of his potential presidency, his own successor, and he could only come up with Palin. I can only think that Christy Todd W and a dozen other women of excellent qualifications refused.

  • Posted By: Hoot @ 10/10/2008 2:46:03 PM

    Out with the old, in with the new. McCain has been in office during all of the time this has happened and will probably have most of the fundamental policies of his party, which have obviously failed. I'm a registered Republican from Kansas, but it doesn't matter what party you are we need change. I don't think electing an experience politician who's experience has came from the times that led us to the mess we are in now is going to change the fundamentals. The fundamentals are what need changed.

  • Posted By: mccainsupporter @ 10/10/2008 11:04:46 AM

    Bill Ayers and a Barack Obama connection.

    Chicago has a tradition for bomb makers beginning with the Haymarket affair bomb that killed 7 police officers in 1886. The bomb was thrown during a May Day rally for striking workers. There is a statue in Haymarket Square marking the place of the bombings.

    A Chicago native the Unabomber is now serving a life sentence at SuperMax Federal Penitentiary in Florence Colorado for killing three people with mail bombs. The Unabomber Ted Kaczynski grew up in the Chicago area, graduated from Harvard University before getting his PhD in mathematics from the University of Michigan, and then taught at U.C. at Berkley. The Unabomber received his moniker by targeting universities and airlines. Ted Kaczynski targeted professors at Northwestern University in Chicago and a United Airlines President with his bomb packages. As a radical leftist environmentalist, Kaczynski???s later fatal victims included an ad executive for Exxon and a timber industry lobbyist.

    Bill Ayers the Weatherman bomb maker is two years younger than Ted Kaczynski the Unabomber, but both have Chicago connections and both received degrees from the University of Michigan about the same time. Bill Ayers received an undergraduate degree in American studies and Ted Kazinski received his Phd in mathematics from the University of Michigan a year earlier than Bill Ayers???s undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan. Bill Ayers went on to get his Masters in teaching at Columbia in 1987.


    Lets look at the educational credentials of each individual:

    Ted Kaczynski, Unabomber: Harvard BA, University of Michigan Phd.
    Bill Ayers: University of Michigan BA, Columbia University Masters in Ed.
    Barack Obama: Columbia University BA and Harvard J.D.


    It does seem curious that these three individuals each have two degrees and all the degrees for the three individuals only come from three institutions of higher learning, Harvard, Columbia and the University of Michigan. The timing is curious too. Perhaps there is a nexus further than all three being raised in Chicago and all three going to these three universities.

    • Posted By: americandefender @ 10/10/2008 12:48:46 PM

      Is this the best you can do! Sorry but these attemps to divert the american people from the issues will not work. We are tired of struggling just to cover our basic living expenses, we are losing what little wealth we have daily thanks to the mess the republicans have made of our economy we will not be diverted by the likes of you.

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