Interactive: The NATO Expansion

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  • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/22/2008 3:11:28 PM

    for objective, demographic reason, cannot occupy them (let alon HOLD them) for generation to come,

    I beg your pardon: "for objective, demographic reasonS, cannot occupy them (let alone hold them) for GENERATIONS to come..,"

  • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/21/2008 10:03:43 AM

    I think that, for west, to "strenghthen its influence" in Eastern Europe (that is, to include in the NATO the "former satellite countries") is not a triumph of diplomatic negotiations, but of diplomatic myopia .
    Former satellites have nothing to give to the west (besides some more bases to better encircle Russia, but WHO REALLY NEEDS it ?), and, on the other side, have realistically nothing to fear from a Russia that, for objective, demographic reason, cannot occupy them (let alon HOLD them) for generation to come, even if it would like to do it (and nothing prove that it would like: why invade a country when you can milk it in exchange for something it REALLY needs ?) . Viceversa, a Russia who feels itself undervalued in its interests (let alone threatened in its safety) could do things it would never do in other conditions, like align ever more with China . And this would be a damage for the west, that no amount of "new european" countries could ever balance or compensate...

  • Posted By: Glenno @ 10/14/2008 7:22:45 PM

    How about adding all the US military bases on the map and also marking the missile defence shield, maybe we can start to understand Russia's security concerns as US is trying to isolate Russia. Does US have Ukraines best interest at heart when US bought their election? The president there has 4% approval rating and 2/3 wants nothing to do with NATO! It is time for US to respect democracy!
    Conspiracy theory? Not really, Brzezinski (Carter & Obamas advisor) wrote a book about it...

    • Posted By: Braes @ 10/18/2008 2:43:28 PM

      I do not support the actions of my government toward Russia, since the fall of Gorbachev. We have completely mismanaged it. We should have made a true and lasting peace and partnership, and invited you into the alliance first, then the other nations. NATO has always been large enough to allow states in that had political differences. (Greece/Turkey, one example Germany and the rest of humnaity, another...)
      Clinton didn't care, and Bush has seen Gazprom as a threat to his oil empire.
      They tried to start a mess in the Caucusus to give a failing poitical system a kick start. Now they are accusing my party, which has undergone dramatic change, of being anti-american.
      If you could seperate the cold war figures, and their writing from today, it will allow us a clean slate upon which to begin. I do not ask you to forgive us, as we have not reconciled yet our mistakes.
      Personally, I am very sorry. I hope to help turn a page in relations. Unlike many political systems, here discredited persons are still published, and allowed to continue in the process. It does not mean they will shape policy. It means they can advise.
      When they do not get their way, they skulk off and write another book.
      One political party here wants to make you a complete strategic cripple and continue the current policies.
      The other political party is simply afraid of the issue being used against them.

  • Posted By: camameri @ 10/18/2008 10:13:31 AM

    It is not agression to expand NATO's capabilities, it is just a triumph of diplomatic negotiations.
    Russia had its power based on the taming of satellite countries. If Russia was unable to keep its influence , imposed on other countries, then it is the opportunity for NATO to strenghthen its influence.

  • Posted By: Rodwell @ 10/15/2008 12:27:39 AM

    So, you say that Russia is just a little more than a paper tiger, well....Russia has always been very sensitive to threats on her Western borders. The Poles in 14th./15th. century. Then there was Napoleon and of course Mr. Hitler. What makes you think that they will not unleash a response if they think the threat is serious enough. Go ahead..keep fooling yourselves ..after the messup in Iran and Afghanistan....what's one more miscalculation huh?

    • Posted By: Ryszard @ 10/17/2008 9:55:07 PM

      you have forgotten 200 years of "yellow yoke" and swweedes... don't forget this...ok.

    • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/15/2008 10:07:42 AM

      All exact & precise, just the poles tried to submit Russia in 16/17° century (dead of Ivan the Terrible, troubled times, false Dimitries, 1614 -see movie for details-, etc.) .

  • Posted By: Ryszard @ 10/17/2008 9:49:25 PM

    EXPANSION OF NATO IS AND WAS ILLEGAL REGERDING TO TREATY BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NATO OF 1997.
    NATO MEANS AGRESSION, INSTABILITY AND WAR AGAINST RUSSIA, FOR ITS NATURAL RESOURCES.
    WEST IST BANKROPT AND CORUPT BEYOND REPAIR, NEEDS NEW VICTIMS.
    I HOPE RUSSIA, THE THIRD ROME, WILL REPPELL ALL OF ITS ENEMIES. BRAVO MR. PUTIN AND RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
    RYSZARD J. RUSNIAK

  • Posted By: aleksei2008 @ 10/16/2008 5:21:12 AM

    And i like live in peace.

  • Posted By: aleksei @ 10/16/2008 5:15:19 AM

    I am Russian. And i say:The power is not in armors, noklier weapons. The power in love to my country. We well never give up.

  • Posted By: aleksei @ 10/16/2008 5:11:02 AM

    I am Russian. And i say:The power is not in armors, noklier weapons. The power in love to my country. We well never give up.

  • Posted By: Alex999 @ 10/13/2008 4:00:34 PM

    The map on Russian and US troops seems to confuse Armenia and Azerbaijan.

  • Posted By: renegade1979 @ 10/12/2008 11:48:26 AM

    To streetwise;
    who told you that Georgia has no armed forces any more? Georgia has retained 95% of it's armed forces intact and has lost (unfortunately) only 169 soldiers agains more then 2000 thouthend russian soldiers during the war. Your affirmation is simply ridiculous and not serious. Oh yeah and Saakashvili will remain untill his mandate expires. Come on be sirous, you do not know what are you talking about...

    • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/13/2008 10:28:38 AM

      You know, when russians come in SO Sakashvili said they had some 1000 tanks when the wole 58th russian arny had 600 tanks omly . Then said that RUSSIANS ponded tzinvali . Then say that a 95% intact 30.000 men army run from Tzkinvali to Tbilisi in less than 5 days, leaving Gori in the process without any valuable resistence, only to "protect the capital" from an armour brigade and some paratroopers unit (since a brigade is about 4000 men and you say 2000 russian soldier have died in the war, let's say a HALF armour brigade and some paratroopers' unit)...Can you say "credibility"...

    • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/13/2008 10:18:53 AM

      You know, when Russian come in SO, georgians say thet had some 2000 tanks, while the whole 58th russian army had 600 tanks only . Then georgians say that RUSSIAN pounded Tzkinvali . Now you say that a 95% untouched 30.000 men army has run from Tzkinvali to Tbilisi without opposing any valuable resistence to an armour brigade and some paratroopers' units (let alone their "awful" casualties)...can you say "credibility" ?

    • Posted By: bormotello @ 10/13/2008 8:44:27 AM

      I think that Saakishvili is still kept in power by USA only to give independence to Abhkazia and Osetia. Ossetia and Abhkazia never will return back to country, which is keeping maniac in power. And Georgia must forget about those territories, which is good thing for USA, because Georgians after they will loose Adjaria to Turkey and Kvemo-Kartli to Azerbaijan can forget about Georgian empire and become little non aggressive country, which is not requireing any protection.

  • Posted By: renegade1979 @ 10/12/2008 11:55:31 AM

    The fact that Russia lost 2000 (two thousand) soldiers made it so angry and they did what they did. but I saw latest updates from independent agencies and Georgian armed forces seem almost intact! they retreated to defend the capital Tbilisi and did not dissappear. Why You think Russia Stopped? these kind of missinformation confuses peaple. In Italy they made a reportage on Georgian army and it's as alive as ever. I'd hardly call army inexistent when it looses just 169 soldiers. Oh yesh... you can find even names an last names of deceised on Georgian Defence ministry web site.

    • Posted By: bormotello @ 10/13/2008 8:34:41 AM

      Sorry, David77 and renegade1979.
      Are you saying that of American media is source of Russian propaganda because all of them are saying only about 84 Russian soldiers killed ? Could you point to independent and RELIABLE recourse, where I can find confirmation for this. Not the little newspapers, paid by Aspect Consulting, PR company which was spreading lie under contract with Saakashvili.
      Second point is about army. If running to capital without any resistance, leaving civilians unprotected, it means that this army exist only on paper.

  • Posted By: bormotello @ 10/13/2008 5:28:31 AM

    What is the reason for respected magazine lie?
    Map with Russian and US soldiers locations full of errors.
    First no US soldiers in Afghanistan, to make it looking that US is not surrounding Russia.
    Plus following bases are missing.
    Romania: Kogalniceanu, Babadag, Cincu, Smardan with 1500 troops.
    Poland ??? base of interceptor missiles
    Czech Republic ??? antimissile radar

  • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/12/2008 9:17:06 AM

    Georgia has virtually no armed forces anymore, it is doubtful wether Sakashvili remains in power, and even more doubtful the post-bail-out-USA will have money to waste to rearm him or whoever else...So, WHAT Georgia in the NATO are we talking about ?

  • Posted By: streetwise @ 10/12/2008 8:46:54 AM

    Serbia "intereste country" ? Just 9 years after the NATO bombs over Belgrade ? To protect itself from WHO ? OK, the grass grows again on the battlefields, but...don't push too hard, friends...

  • Posted By: System7 @ 10/11/2008 5:03:25 AM

    We cannot confidently say the Ukraine hopes to be a member of the NATO. Only 20% of Ukrainians want their country to be in the NATO.

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