What’s God Got to Do With It?

And yet, Jesus called his disciples his "friends." Here is God in the flesh, calling humans friends. Remarkable.

And also he told those he healed that their faith had made them well. Their FAITH opened the channel to let the healing love of God flow into them. Their belief that God would love them enough to heal them. In fact, in one of the two tellings of the the woman who touched the hem of Jesus' garment to be healed of her flow of blood, it is said, Jesus "felt the power go out of him." The woman's belief in Jesus and that God's power would heal her made her bold enough to touch his garment and open that channel of healing. Not only was she healed, but she was praised for her faith.

God didn't make us as little pieces of junk he has to run around fixing. He made us in his image, with his spirit in us and our regretful choices have led us away from this radiance. Our job is to get back to that original radiance (original blessing - when God saw what he made and called it good -- came before the concept of original sin). We are not nobodies (pardon the grammar!)-- we are God's hands and feet on earth, doing God's will. To humble ourselves to God does not mean to hate ourselves or demean ourselves -- it means to cast away those attitudes and behaviors that violate that holy relationship with God and each other (deny ourselves) and claim our place as his beloved children - children in which his very spirit -- the Holy Spirit -- lives. ???Do you not know your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God???? That???s what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:19. That???s who we are.

And to get back to the original discussion, Joel preaches about the possibilities that exist in us when we align with God vs. telling us how awful and broken we are. I suspect many people have heard the latter for a long time and internalized the damaging way that message is often preached. Joel offers a kinder word, a gentler message. How can he be faulted for that? Didn't Jesus himself say his "yoke is easy and his burden light"? Sometimes a light touch is what is needed to lead people to light and let their relationship with God grow from there.

THe Osteens are just the latest in the "blab it and grab it" or "name it and claim it" craze to hit the church. Jesus promised to provide our needs. He is not a spiritual genie who provides everything we want. The Osteens are only popular because they tell people they have a key to getting all of their desires when they never tell them that the Lord desires for us to be Holy and blameless before Him. We are to live our lives in service to the Lord, the Lord doesn't exist to serve us.

???I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.???

The church says we're nothing in comparison to Jesus. Jesus said listen to what I'm teaching and you'll do even more than me.

The Lord told us to "deny ourselves", meaning to remove any sense of self-importance and self-love, so that we can fully submit to Him and obey Him and glorify Him with our lives. He taught us to see ourselves as we really are; sinful, limited, a nobody (in comparison to Jesus) so that we learn to completely humble ourselves before God.

I'm very sad that preachers today are teaching exactly the opposite message. We focused too much on ourselves and make God our own genie. And many "christians" bought in into the message since it sounds good to our ears.

I figure there are LOTS of folks out there talking about sin, hell and the consequences of actions -- so much so that the message that God loves us tenderly and deeply gets lost in self-loathing. I think its good to have another voice that reminds us of God's love for us and calls us to live our lives in line with God's will for us not because we fear hell and eternal damnation, but because we are truly taken and in love with the God that created us, and moved to act in goodness, kindness and righteousness out of gratitude for the abundant love that has been showered on us.

One other thing that occurs to me....how many folks talking anti-prosperity are wearing hairshirts and living out of tents, giving all their earthly possessions away to follow God? How many are driving high-mileage, fuel-efficient cars, forgoing vacations to give to the church or the poor, tithing or more,....you get the idea. Folks on this blog are wealthy enough to have computers to blog on.....gee selling that machine and giving the money to the poor can feed a hungry family for weeks. I realize I am getting a little absurd, but I agree in part with 1Ramona -- judge not lest you be judged. I don't think we are meant to judge what other people do but rather what we are called to do with what God has given us.

This whole "ME ME ME" menality is making me sick. Christ isn't some genie here to give us whatever we want. In fact, its the opposite. Our purpose is to glorify God in however we're called to do so. If we help the poor, God isn't necessarily going to give us a treat. We help others so that they may see Christ in our actions, and if they aren't saved, so they may be saved. There are going to be a lot of shocked people on Judgement Day...I pray that people can see the errors of their ways before its too late...

All this "Me Me Me" mentailty is making me sick. Christianity is not about what God can do for me...its actually the opposite. If we help a poor person, God isn't necessarily going to give us something in return. You help others to bring them to Christ, or so that others can see Christ through you. It's not about me...There are going to be some shocked people when they get to Judgement Day, and I pray that people see the errors of their ways before it's too late...

1Romona - You don't want to judge them, but at the same time you claim to KNOW what is in their minds and hearts. "They believe that someone might become offended and stop going to their church or worse yet; stop sending money. " This not only reaks of arrogance, but is slanderous as well.

I don't know much about the Osteens, I've never read their books or watched their shows. But I wonder what the author is complaining about. If they were all "fire and brimstone," you'd be criticizing them for that. But now we have "spiritual lite," and you don't like that either. How about this one: maybe they think their followers are smart enough to read the bible and think for themselves, so they skip the sermons and offer encouragement instead. What's so bad about that?

This is another sad reality that many focus on when thinking about Christianity as a whole. This couple (Osteen's) doesn't spend much time talking about Jesus Christ, or sin, or hell, or the consequences of our actions. They believe that someone might become offended and stop going to their church or worse yet; stop sending money.

We should not judge them however; since it is not our place, but God's place. He and He alone, knows what goes on in their hearts, and the same judgement that falls on you and I, will most certainly fall on them.

What has God got to do with it? ... Living your life in such a way that it is an example for others... THAT's what God has got to do with it, Lisa.

Newsweek72:
It is true that Jesus did not speak about acquiring wealth in the MATERIAL plane, but he certainly talked about abundance in the earthly life -- spiritual abundance. We don't have to die to enjoy spiritual abundance. While he told us not to lay up treasures that moth can corrupt but to lay up treasures in heaven, he also told us the kingdom of God was among us -- NOW. Not after we die -- NOW. It was Pharisees that made people jump through hoops to achieve God's love, and Jesus preached that it wasn't that complicated, and that goodness and kindness -- such as healing on the sabbath -- were key. Give your Bible another looksee, Newsweek72.
He didn't talk about us being dripping with wealth, but let's remember that SOMEONE supported his ministry with resources -- I've heard it was many of the women who flocked around Jesus. So in this world one must manage resources wisely and with integrity -- kind of like having dominion over the earth -- it's a responsibility not a chance to exploit it for our own greed.
I find it interesting that folks have seized upon the messages Joel has about believing for a new car or home, and have made his ministry all about those messages. He isn't asking people to send money for prayer cloths or gewgaws or whatever; he is in part saying to put your trust in God and live a cheerful, joyful, victorious life. Maybe the definition of that kind of life for one person may be conquering an addiction; for another it may be overcoming a fear that holds them back; for another it may be rising out of poverty. Those who label Joel as a "prosperity preacher" are extremely reductionist and are not looking at the full scope of hope he is preaching.

The challenge to the interpretation of Christianity served up at Lakewood Church is the absence of teaching that illustrates our individual acts of sin as the reason we are individually separated from God. Only through acceptance of this truth, will individuals be open to taking the next step and receiving the gift of Jesus' redeeming power in our lives.

Just as Barack Obama chooses to ignore clear Biblical teaching that defines the origins of life (Psalm 139) as he cozies up to NARAL and Planned Parenthood, Joel Osteen can choose to ignore Jesus' teachings on denying self and serving others as he cozies up to the Prosperity Gospel.

The challenge to the interpretation of Christianity served up at Lakewood Church is the absence of teaching that illustrates our individual acts of sin as the reason we are individually separated from God. Only through acceptance of this truth, will individuals be open to taking the next step and receiving the gift of Jesus' redeeming power in our lives.

Just as Barack Obama chooses to ignore clear Biblical teaching that defines the origins of life (Psalm 139) as he cozies up to NARAL and Planned Parenthood, Joel Osteen can choose to ignore Jesus' teachings on denying self and serving others as he cozies up to the Prosperity Gospel.

I'm really starting to wonder if all the Anti-prosperity people posting comments here have ever listened to, or read anything Joel has had to say. I grew up Catholic, ran away for a couple decades, came back as a Presbyterian and then moved on to New Thought. I've never heard Joel say anything that contradicts anything I've learned so far. Robert Schuller's been preaching prosperity for several decades.

Jesus never talked about the abundance in the earthly life. In fact He said it was easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.
He was always about the Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven. His teaching was always about the spiritual life. Read your Bible labyrinthlady5.

What???s God Got to Do With It?

The title asks a question, the answer to which a Christian would answer, ???everything???, an atheist would go into a long diatribe about God and heap ridicule on believers in God before saying ???nothing???. The people in between, that is, the undecided would be the ones asking the question.

???Outsiders have a problem with Joel.??? OK. The term insider and outsider is relative as everyone knows. Talking as an outsider relative to the author of this article, Lisa Miller, I say,??? leave Joel be???. His insiders are satisfied with what he is giving them. They believe in God. If God wants them to continue with Joel as their preacher, he will. If God wants Lisa Miller to be the his messenger, they will read this article. It is their faith and their choice. They are exercising their rights to ???life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness???. The US constitution took great care in leaving the definition of these terms to each individual. In addition, the constitutional right to ???freedom of assembly???.

It never fails to amaze me that so many people excuse their lack of achievement by claiming that the Prosperity preachers are wrong. They shout that God really wants us poor and miserable, homeless and wandering to preach the truth. Times have changed and ministry of all kinds have changed. I believe when God says "Abundance", He means in everything. But, He is not going to do it for you, He expects you to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, so that He can bless your efforts. He wants to live our lives WITH us, not FOR us. Bill Johnson