He has served in a dozen cabinets, shared the Nobel Prize for his part in the Oslo accords, and twice been prime minister. So after more than 65 years at the center of Israeli history, Shimon Peres was prepared for something different—the presidency. The post is largely ceremonial (though he can dissolve and reconstitute a government), but Peres is still something of an éminence grise. He sat down with NEWSWEEK's Adam B. Kushner to chat about the upcoming election and his undaunted hope for a peaceful Middle East. Excerpts:
Kushner:
What might a new government accomplish that the last one didn
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t?
Peres: The last government had some achievements. The gaps between us and the Palestinians were narrowed, particularly on land and borders. The main differences are small: some say 3 percent, others say 5 percent [of land exchanged]. These are manageable. It takes time. But a new government could continue and conclude. Also, there's a beginning of an understanding on how to solve the refugee problem. There are serious talks on security. We haven't yet touched the burning question of Jerusalem, but we don't start from zero game.
What kind of understanding on refugees?
For a very long time, their position was that all the refugees should come back to Israel, which would mean to dismantle Israel as a Jewish state. Now they see that we have to reach an agreement and it must be a just solution. Meanwhile, there are two major ideological changes among the Jews and the Arabs. On the Jewish side, the national debate between a Greater Israel and a two-state solution with partition is practically over. On the Arab side, there was a policy of "no negotiation, no recognition, no peace." Instead, they've introduced a peace plan of their own, so the two traditional debates have changed.
Can Prime Minister Tzipi Livni pick up where the last government left off?
She was head of the negotiating team. So she knows exactly where we stand.
You say it takes time. Do you worry that the more time it takes, the less support there will be among Palestinians for two states?
How we can force them? We can't and we shouldn't. But it's either an agreement or a continuation of the conflict, which is extremely expensive to both sides. The problem is that the Arab world has more divisions than unity. So if they cannot unite, they cannot give orders to Hizbullah, to Hamas, and not to Iran. And Iran is the greatest divider today in Muslim world. They want Iranian religious hegemony over the whole area. Somebody said "nothing divides the Arab world more than its unity."
Would an attack on Iran unify the Muslim world?
I'm against that, and I think it's a mistake to speak about. Iran is a danger to the world, not just to Israel. The world would be ungovernable if they continue.
So why wouldn
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t you want to talk about ways to stop them?
I say it can be done without military action. The problem is about unanimity. As long as the democratic world is divided, Iran will go crazy and bombs won't help. The best option is a coalition of the former alliance and maybe the Russians, too. I had a long talk with Putin in Beijing; he says we should not permit Iran to have a bomb.
His Security Council record suggests, at best, it
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s not that important to him.
If you have a minority of 14 million Muslims in Chechnya, I don't think you remain indifferent.
But how do you get them onboard?
That's an issue for the United States. I can see the anger [after the Georgia war], but I don't believe either side wants to maintain it for a long time.
But even when U.S.-Russian relations are repaired, will Moscow help on Iran?
Putin asked me about it. He said it's not clear the Iranians want to build a nuclear bomb. I said, so why are they building long-range missiles? Maybe the delivery means are no less significant than the warheads. There are many options—the minds of our leaders are richer than they seem. [Laughs]
Is corruption endemic in Israeli politics?
It's not corruption, it's anti-corruption. The fight against corruption makes waves! Until now, suspected people were not taken to court. A democratic country should be judged not by whether it has one or two or 10 corrupted people, but by whether it has the strength to fight them.
Do you think there
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s an acceptance of sexual harassment within Israel
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s political culture?
On the contrary. They are less liberal than they used to be! Before today, you would never be charged as a criminal for kissing a girl. Today, my God, be careful!
Your idea
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your book
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The New Middle East.
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Well, what happened to it?
Divisions and wars came from the age when we made our living on agriculture and land. Today, armies cannot conquer wisdom or technology. Knowledge doesn't stop at borders anymore. When a scientist goes through customs, who knows what's in his mind? It's an historic change. There are Arabs—not all of them, maybe not many of them—who are afraid that modernity endangers their tradition. To that I say two things: they cannot make a living on tradition, and they cannot save their young generation from becoming modern. But there's no contradiction between modernity and religion. If you ask me what kind of Israel I want, I'd like to see my country as old as the Ten Commandments and as new as nanotechnology.