Tide Of Intolerance

Through neglect of its Christian minority, India is allowing religiously motivated violence to threaten its rise.

By Sumit Ganguly | NEWSWEEK
Published Oct 15, 2008

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  • Posted By: Rajaswamy @ 10/16/2008 3:41:44 PM

    The sinister campaign threatening Christians with the forfeiture of their property and the destruction of their homes if they do not renounce Christianity and become Hindus is the most chilling example of ???SCORTHED EARTH POLICY???. Who gains from this ??? These are local radical businessmen who fund VHP /Bajrang Dal who want to seize`valuable land (in these days of sky rocketing property values); by permanently seeing to that the believing Christians are uprooted from that area for good, knowing very well that Government will rehabiliate them else where. So they fan the ???Conversion Bogey???, without any proof and start massacring !!!
    Basically, this is a scenario repeated from Godhra carnage when about 2000 + Muslims were similarly slaughtered based on rumours, and whomsoever lucky Muslims were to save their lives were displaced for good in other new locations, while their ancestoral prime landed property and locations were marauded and taken for cheap by local businessmen with the conveince of sinster designs of organizations like VHP / Bajrang Dal. (to be Contd???)
    This type of ???SCORTHED EARTH POLICY??? can forgotten by the ruling governments facing general election (after making some noise), but we need to be aware that these would be the breeding grounds for real misguided youths to take to suicidal terrorism in order to take revenge !!! In Kandhamal case, the Maosits will get new recruits, VHP/Bajrang Dal will get enthusiasm to replicate this business model else where across India (i.e.killing peacefull Christians by raising conversion bogey); and their BJP political umbrella party gaining few points as 2009 general election approaches (to create hysteria alike ???Babri Masjid tragedy???).
    I am SAD to find lot of netizens,( leaving aside whatever religion we belong too), are supporting what happened in Orissa, some critizing the author of this article etc..May I ask whether these people want INDIAN DEMOCRACY to be secular and vibrant or they want India???s rise *** integration into the developed world to be at stake ??? Sorry for that, but I am an INDIAN PATRIOT on the lines of MAHATMA GANDHI !!!

    • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/16/2008 10:25:26 PM

      A lot of us just want Indian democracy to be only as secular as the USA, France or Canada. Religions in India are given too much freedom which leads to conflict, and the only solution may be to limit religious freedom much as the USA or France have done.

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:32:30 PM

        Er.....USA has not limited relgious freedom. They just have a better law enforcement system in place, that keeps extremists at bay. They've also enjoyed freedom a lot longer than India has. Should I mention that racial equality is still a problem in America? Do you know that India ended casteism before America ended segregation? A little research people.

        • Posted By: APbass91 @ 05/14/2009 8:51:02 AM

          Caste is still a huge problem in India, despite the "official" line.

        • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/18/2008 12:24:35 PM

          The USA has limited religious freedom as religious freedom is practised in India. Probably the clearest example is that USA forces all religions to follow a common code. No religion can practise its religious law. So Muslims do not have their personal law, nor Christians nor Hindus or any other religion as is the custom in India.

          Thus people in USA cannot take refuge in religious laws to defend behavior that is viewed as anti-social. As against this the situation in India is that everyone turns to their religion to defend behaviors that cause conflict such as -

          1. Polygamy
          2. Fewer rights for women
          3. Conversion activities
          4. Loud public displays of religion

  • Posted By: Proud_Hindu @ 10/16/2008 9:57:15 AM

    Hindus are right in defending their religion , if these Christians want to help why dont they help people without converting them to christianity ? The westerners dont even know how these christian missionaries convert people there , they pay them money , and try to expolit their poverty , they tell them to convert to Christianity and they offer money in return , Hindus are absolutely doing the correct thing in defending their religion

    • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:43:24 AM

      True Christians don't do that. I am a christian and I would never THINK about doing that.

    • Posted By: sdsdfdf @ 10/17/2008 12:39:46 PM

      It is non-sense. One can not proud just to cling to one religen. All religion teaches moral, ethics, pricilples in life. It doest matter one follows Hinduism or Muslim or christian. The people who converts their religion in India are poor, socially and economically backward, suffer from getting employment, good food, health and education. This is fundamental requirement in human life. It is shame if government or any other social organization does not address the issue. Clinging to one religion will not yield bread and butter. If one religion is provding those and asking to convert the religion, it is perfetcly fine, after all food, health, education is more more important than a religion.

  • Posted By: TheWordoftheLordlives @ 10/16/2008 12:00:26 PM

    Persecution and killing of Christians is nothing new. Since the beginning of the history of the Church (true believers in Christ), persecution has always been a part of faith in Christ. However, persecution can never stop the Word of God from spreading as has been evidenced by history (Read the book of Acts in the Bible). As a matter of fact the Church becomes stronger when under intense persecution. The Word of God cannot be stopped..."My Word shall go forth and not return to Me void" God says. Jesus Himself said in the book of John 14, "I (alone) Am the Way, I (alone) Am the Truth and I (alone) Am the Life, no man comes to the Father except through Me." Acts 4:12 says, "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
    No matter if the nation is India, the US or any other nation on the face of the earth, God's Word will prevail even under intense persecution. Jesus said, "if they hated Me, they will hate you." God's Word also says, "they that live godly lives in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution." This is more than just a political or culteral issue. Truth is under attack and it will continue until Christ returns and sets up His kingdom as "KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS" (Read Revelation chapter 19).
    The Word of God will continue to go forth from His people in India no matter how much God's people are persecuted.

    • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:41:04 AM

      The WordoftheLordlives-

      Great "speech!" Have you read the book Tortured for your faith? It is an amazing account of the persecution of a christian in an eastern country. If you go to the voice of the martyers magazine's website you can get the book for free.

    • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 3:35:52 PM

      Your ignorance is only matched by your arrogance.

  • Posted By: Proud_Hindu @ 10/16/2008 9:58:40 AM

    Hindus are doing the right thing in defending their religion , Christian Missionaries are paying money to poor people to convert , if they want to help the poor just help them , why make them believe in so called Jesus Christ

    • Posted By: gotohorse @ 10/16/2008 11:19:18 AM

      So this justifies killing people, HOW? I'm sure someone of your primitive view would also say honor kills are justified, etc.

      I hope you don't live in the US we have enough people here who aren't embracing the democratic , law based constitution as it is.

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 3:42:53 PM

        Dude, get off your self-righteous ass. It isn't the same. No one is condoning the murder of anyone, let alone missionaries. But the Christian movement is a very dangerous movement, and they spare no effort in the spread of their propaganda. Their brainwashing tactics are despicable at best, so let's tackle the problem at the root. The Christian missionaries need to stop their ridiculous practices as well.

        • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:35:53 AM

          Dude,
          CHILL OUT. Brainwashing? seriously? chill

    • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:32:24 AM

      Because, what purpose is there to live without Christ? Seriously, you have one life- don't ruin it.

  • Posted By: gopen @ 10/15/2008 6:46:31 PM

    If you cant even level set that conversion is root cause of all these problems, I pity you.
    If Missionaries primary motive is service, why not go to Christian Majority, poor nations in Africa or Europe and do it, Why target India and China?
    I pity you. This is the angle that will be most suitable to the subscribers, to play to that base. Where is your honesty?

    • Posted By: yanfu39 @ 10/16/2008 6:15:26 AM

      Let me give you a history lesson. Jesus was the first Christian. His followers preached his gospel first in Jerusalem and Judea (modern Israel), and then to other parts of the world. Yes, for many HUNDREDS of years they preached and converted in Africa, Europe, and Asia. The preaching and conversions today is just a continuation of what started 2000 years ago in Jerusalem. They faced opposition then, even more violently than what is in India. But violent opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ cannot stop it. If it could, then please tell me how 12 men were able to sweep the civilised world and turn it on its face 2000 years ago, even in the face of violent opposition and the mass killings ordered by various Roman emperors?

      • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:29:23 AM

        Jesus was not the first person to be a "christian." There were other people before him that believed that a saviour was coming and they worshipped God. But in Acts the believers were called Christians for the first time.

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:44:43 PM

        Er...Jesus was a Jew.... *poof*.....your argument disappears in a puff of logic.

  • Posted By: ntheidinger @ 10/15/2008 6:20:44 PM

    I have a family in the village of Hatasuku, South Orissa, with whom I correspond. I think, but am not sure , that they are Christian. Are they in any danger? If so, how can I help them. nth

    • Posted By: SRaj @ 10/16/2008 1:16:01 AM

      Just pray for their safety!

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:45:56 PM

        And lets pray for your stupidity.

        • Posted By: ckenzirenee_2013@hotmail.com @ 04/03/2009 11:22:17 AM

          Pray that you will see the truth. I will be praying for their safety.

    • Posted By: ClementW @ 10/18/2008 3:38:46 PM

      India has to confront its millennia old caste system and its pernicious effect on the way of thought. I am an Indian and have personally seen the continuing mal-treatment of the untouchables even though the Indian constitution guarantees equality. The Indian constitution has become just a piece of paper. The secularism guaranteed in it has been routinely ignored, starting with ethnic strife resulting in twice the number of states than were present at the time of independence in 1947. With the death of Gandhi and Nehru, the nation started falling apart. Even Indira Gandhi (Nehru's daughter) fell victim to this ethnic hatred.

      There is definitely ethnic cleansing going on in many parts of India and has been going on for at least the past 5 decades. It is not surprising that the nearly 80% Hindu majority should want a 100% majority and they want to get rid of the tiny 2% Christians first followed by the 20% Muslim minority. I am afraid that the 60% Shiite majority in Iraq goaded by Iran will do so pretty soon after the US forces are withdrawn.

  • Posted By: svengali @ 11/27/2008 1:15:29 PM

    Excellent article. Both balanced and insightful. Kudos to Ganguly

  • Posted By: ergrama @ 10/24/2008 2:16:37 PM

    western world a so called christian world loosing their christian religion and getting influenced by eastern religions like hinduism and buddhism for spiritual growth and peace. christian missionaries only alternative is to go to populous countries like india and china to preach and convert to christianity for their mental peace, ego, power, money and existence. spiritually christianity only offers 10% of spiritual growth which hindus and buddhists offer. if hidus could get rid of "cast" system (which was the result of 1000 years of foreign rules and destruction of true hindu religion due to lacf money, preaching and propagatiing real esence of hinduism and real meaning of cast system and re-incarnation knowledge was discouraged, and punished by foreign rulers and their christian religious colonial powers (except by sincere and true christians). most of the christian curch leaders have (had) less knowledge of God than our socalled low cast and "untouchables". to revive hindu or indian spiritual growth reconversion of converts to hindu religion is necessary. hindus have to produce good preachers, teachers and hindu missionaries for the purpose of reconverting by peaceful means, not through violence.

  • Posted By: dopelgangerA @ 10/17/2008 12:38:38 PM

    At what point will the United States and other nations threaten economic trade sanctions against India if it fails to begin to make a genuine good-faith effort to curb this violence? And what about sanction against trade(including purchasing of oil) against Middle Eastern oil-rich nations that discriminate against Christians, Jews, and non-believers? Are trade & commerce so precious that we will not even consider using sanctions as were used during apartheit against South Africa?

    • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/18/2008 12:49:44 AM

      The answer to the possibility of trade and economic sanctions is that things will have to slide a long way before that is considered. To give you an indication, if you look at metrics like refugee flow, China does about 10 times worse than India and we see how eager everyone is to trade with China.

      • Posted By: ClementW @ 10/18/2008 3:13:54 PM

        There is a small but significant portion of the American population which can affect the ivestment decisions of publicly held companies. For instance, the baptist denomination is very alrge in the United States and I am sure that it has financial clout. Should they or for that matter all the evangelcal denominations decided that enough is enough, they could affect future investment in India.

        • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/20/2008 2:17:47 AM

          USA baptists have long been involved in supporting rebellion in the state of Nagaland.

          http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers13%5Cpaper1256.html

          About Nagaland - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagaland

          ---------------------------------------------------------

          USA evangelicals do not have to go about this in a roundabout way. They are a large part of USA government agencies and they are more directly involved in sending billions of dollars for religious activities in India.

          http://mha.gov.in/fcra/annual/ar2005-06.pdf



          • Posted By: ergrama @ 10/21/2008 8:31:23 PM

            not just usa baptists, roman catholic churches too are aggressively involved in trying to make india a christian country. only solutuion to prevent this is actively reconversion to hinduism. this will help indian economy to grow.along with spiritual resugence.. but this must be in nonviolence and peaceful manner.

    • Posted By: vijay_1976 @ 10/17/2008 6:28:06 PM

      I do not think the US will or should use trade and economic sanctions against India. First, it will not work. There will always be nations that will trade with India. India's largest trade partner is no longer the US, it is China and that trade is growing every year by enormous multiples.

      Second, it is counterproductive. It will affect people against whom it was never intended.

      Third, it is wrong. The Indian government or the Constitution do not as a policy support these actions. These are pogroms planned and executed by political and social bodies that intend to gain political power in certain places in India. So the BJP as a whole may not condone this, or the Congress may not condone this en masse. But you can be sure that there are elements within all parties that incite violence to gain power. To impose sanctions on tha basis of this is inherently wrong.

      Fourth, history has shown that nations- especially large ones like India, China and Russia- need to be engaged rather than pushed around. They will not allow themselves to be pushed around; and the US will simply lose any and all leverage they have in negotiations with these nations! It is bad negotiation.

      The US must keep applying pressure consistently and they must apply it strategically. Deny all visas to people in power who tacitly, implicitly or explicitly support this. Find out organizations in the US that support these movements ideologically or financially and investigate them- if there is proof that they have contributed to organizations on the watchlist for violence, freeze their assets, outlaw them. Ensure that the theme of protescting minoritites comes up each time a high powered official travels on behalf of the US government to India. Constant pressure will enable action.

      Finally, young educated Indians in the US live in coccoons of Indian communities, largely insulated by unbiased thinking about communal prejudice and hatred. Start programs to reach these people with thoughts of egalitarianism; especially the fact that we can disagree on faith, ideology, etc without being enemies. To an Indian, his religion is like his mother- and when it is violated, he resents it. This thinking needs refinement.

      • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/18/2008 12:55:26 AM

        Those young Indians living in the US don't have the vote in India. You will have better luck opening a dialog with us middle class Indians on the way to Vegas.

        http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1198931

  • Posted By: ergrama @ 10/21/2008 3:12:21 PM

    the fact is christian minority was (is) not neglected, but hindu majority is neglected for christian cause by the politicians both congress and bjp. hindu majority are not anti-christians, but christian minority is anti-hindu through the teaching of christian religious and political leaders, that must be challanged by hindu religious and political leaders through nonviolence means and peace. reconversion by peaceful means is one of the peaceful methods.

  • Posted By: ergrama @ 10/21/2008 12:14:50 PM

    religious violence is bad, but indian and state govt. should not give compensations for destroyed properties. this will onlky encourage religious/political/economic motivated violence. people should have respect and tolerance for each other and others' religious and political beliefs. unfortunately christian organizations are causing stir among people teaching hate and against hinduism to convert hindus to christianity through all sorts of means and illegally, which is causing anger among hindus. hindus do not convert others with different faiths, hindus respect other faiths. hindus have right to reconvert those, who were forced converted to other faiths through nonviolence and peaceful methods.. hindus need to be more evangelic to convert and recovert people of other faiths for true spiritual growth of people of india and the world.

  • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/16/2008 1:16:37 PM

    To be clear no one cares if missionaries work among people. The problem starts when they start advancing a political agenda and using violent means against the native religions. The missionaries seem to have forgotten that they can reach God simply by serving the poor.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 2:00:44 PM

      and of course now you are working in a christian dominated country having all types of freedom to go to your temples and abuse Christianity through your riight of freedom of expression. Hindus gloat how Europeans are forgetting Christianity and turning to Hinduism to fill the spiritual void. ISKON the Hindu association runs mission to convert westerners into Hindus by chanting and hogwashing about the nonexistent Nirvana that comes out through the bottom of the spine. Nobody's abusing you because of that? Matter of faith is a very personal matter which is up to each person to decide. Don't BS about missionaries "enticing" people.

      • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/18/2008 1:49:55 PM

        Nice try. All your BS would be justified if ISKON or other Hindu/Muslim organization were taking up the gun to foment rebellion in your country.

      • Posted By: cjsrinivas @ 10/16/2008 7:35:02 PM

        I truly believe you will eventually mend your ways and contribute to a positive message.

        I don???t know where amit.j lives, but I live here in the United States. I came here because I was tired of educational system in my country. I speak for myself when I say this, I respect every human being irrespective of their position on many difficult topics, one of which is religion and that includes you emmarcee.

        I plan on taking the high road on this one; to mock at another religion by comparing to body parts is despicable and frankly immature.

        You have something to say, say it in a polite manner, and I am more than happy to take it up with you, you want to jump into the gutter, it???s all yours to enjoy.

        • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/17/2008 9:11:25 AM

          Where do you think the Kundalini is, Srinivas?

  • Posted By: dwellingdon @ 10/17/2008 1:28:43 PM

    Its all because of Gujarat......BJP tried to gather all hindu votes and it worked out...so they are trying that in other places also...........

    • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/18/2008 1:06:46 AM

      People figured out that the Gujarat Congress was infiltrated by secular terrorists and started voting for BJP. Given the slow speed of Indian courts we are just seeing convictions for terrorism in the 1990s, but the voters did not wait for the courts.

      --------------------------------------------------------------

      Former Gujarat minister convicted in 1993 Surat bombings

      October 04, 2008 | RSS


      Ahmedabad: Former Gujarat minister Mohammad Surti of the Congress party and ten others were found guilty Saturday in the 1993 bombings of two places in Surat.

      http://www.samachaar.in/Gujarat/Former_Gujarat_minister_convicted_in_1993_Surat_bombings_61157/

  • Posted By: ginnywalia @ 10/15/2008 9:57:22 PM

    I agree. India is a secular state but the eastern religions do not believe in conversion. The comfort level in westerns religions to ask others to convert shows their outlook on other religions. That outlook is that they belong to a better religion. I know I am offended when people come to my door with their religious literature. I have begun to just offer my literature to them. That quickly gets rid of them. However, the rest of the world may not be that civilized. After all, religion is the cause of largest number of deaths in the history of mankind.

    • Posted By: SRaj @ 10/16/2008 1:10:16 AM

      Missionaries do not convert anyone as people like you claim. They share His Good News. People are not just dump to get converted. Are there incidents of such conversion? Yes. But, you are substitutiing such minor incidents for a disguised majority. Not a good line of reasoning on your part. I do not know what you should be offended by seeing literature from Chrsitians. You sound to be too sensitive, extreamly prejudiced!

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:39:45 PM

        They got you too, eh Raj?

  • Posted By: Akmatic @ 10/16/2008 4:46:01 PM

    Honestly, if you???re a Christian living in India, you need to find a way to move to a more civilized country b/c outside of the call centers, parts of the capital and a few of the other Tourist spots near airports; the rest of the country is a totally unorganized, backwards & lawless dump.

    They still have a Caste (read: slave system) in place???how much more uncivilized you can get without going back to BC times? There???s absolutely no reason for people to be alarmed or shocked that these people were killed b/c of their religious beliefs.

    • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:28:10 PM

      Some more ignorant BS. Seriously, I am concerned that some view India as a Hindu terrorist nation. A white woman by the name of Sonia is the president of the most powerful party in the country. Seriously people, stop typecasting. By your logic, the Southern Baptists in America are nothing but a bunch of crusading war mongers. Cuts both ways, doesn't it?

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 7:00:43 PM

      Please!, I see your concern. But understand that Indian Christian is first Indian and then Christian. He does not see west as the final destination. A little improvement in life is good enough for most of the people. Yuo don't need everything in the world. What people need is peace of mind.

  • Posted By: sumitisleo @ 10/16/2008 7:58:18 AM

    Mr. Khan seems a Paki... jealous of HINDU RATE OF GROWTH of INDIA... As for the author, i must tell him that there is nothing which can stop GROWTH of INDIA. b4 writing some biased views one shud look deeply and honestly into the matter. Converting Poor and uneducated tribals and lower caste people by luring them with money, and other facilities is the biggest voilence against them. b4 writing i suppose the author shud have read comments posted in any of the news in any Indian Media web site, where he wud ve seen that almost 90% of the comments while denouncing the voilence show apathy and hate towards actions of christans.
    Every1 shud understand that India is a democracy for all. there are other minorities also like Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis etc but they never face any problem in modern India. The question is why only Muslims and Christians face Hindu ire. the reason is simple... Hindus are only retaliating... they are paing them back in same coin. they are retaliating the voilence meted out to Hindus namely Terrorism my Muslims and Spiritual Terrorism by Christans. I must clarify here that not all muslims are terrorists. in fact there is a very thin minority of this class among muslims. the only prob with muslims is that even 2day for most of them ISLAM comes first and INDIA comes second. ...

    • Posted By: ASH1KHAN @ 10/16/2008 8:12:25 AM

      Actually Born and Raised American and Proud of it.

      I don't have to say much. let history speak for itself. All i ask is for the world to do their own research into Hinduism and everyone will ascertin the truth for themselves.

      • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 4:04:53 PM

        Hmmm...I suppose supporting human rights movements in Bangladesh and Tibet are evil acts?

  • Posted By: arunjamal @ 10/16/2008 10:46:12 AM

    Wow. I can't believe what I'm reading in some of these comments! Suggesting that paying a poor person to convert is the same as burning a person alive is a stretch, don't you think! Another post says if someone in America wrote an article saying negative things about somebody's religion that the nation would be in a furor. That person must not live in America! People criticize and make fun of anything and everything, all the time. Very little furor results. To think that you have a right to murder someone because they criticize your faith is the problem.

    Even if some of these supposed missionaries are paying poor people to convert, so what? It's their money and their life. The poor have a right to do as they please. Why should the ruling castes have a right to control these poor people?

    Get over it. There's massive reform coming to India and some of these archaic ideas are crashing down.

    • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 3:41:40 PM

      Dude, get off your self-righteous ass. It isn't the same. No one is condoning the murder of anyone, let alone missionaries. But the Christian movement is a very dangerous movement, and they spare no effort in the spread of their propaganda. Their brainwashing tactics are despicable at best, so let's tackle the problem at the root. The Christian missionaries need to stop their ridiculous practices as well.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 2:19:48 PM

      listen , it is very foolish to say that they hand out money and convert? can't you see it is just propaganda? What is the use of that anyway? I know how it works. Ask any person in USA who has gone to missionary work anywhere in the world? Does anyone covery for 10 dollars?

  • Posted By: Truth007 @ 10/16/2008 12:26:38 PM

    Before saying something he (Pope)should go to the root of the problem and not make a statement which suits him.Which religion did the tribals belong to?None.So why the hell has anybody the right to convert them?Nobody.They would have been living a peaceful life on their own till came the idiots who wanted to bring them into the MAINSTREAM.No polution,no greed no jazzy clothes and other outfits to show off nothing of the razzmatazz which is known as "progress"..Please leave them aloof a request i make to all religionists and politicians and industriywallahs.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 12:53:02 PM

      Right to convert? Indian constitution guarantees the right of propagation of religion. Problem is that Catse system based on the authority of Brahimns still exists in India, with dalits on the lowest levels. "Tribals" are so far out most of these people cared them less than animals so they did n't put them in the four classes. So the whole India forgot about them. So what if missionaries work among them and show them light? I know, most of the upper classes don't want the dalits and tribals to get educated. This has been the curse of India. instead of attacking and killing missionaries and raping nuns, you Nazis should form organizations to help out these downtrodden people of India.
      yes most of the tribals are not even in the mainstream hinduism partly because of the aforementioned problems of Hinduism and slo becaus ethey have their own tribal gods just like any othe rtribals around the world. does not mean that they should be left in the darkness for all time!!

      • Posted By: cjsrinivas @ 10/16/2008 3:38:11 PM

        You want to reason it out, then lets get started.

        Right to convert: The one you are referring to is Article 25, it states, ???all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right to freely profess, practice and propagate religion???
        The constitution was written in the true spirit of equality and freedom and that is why it is under ???Fundamental Rights??? and not under the Indian Penal Code. However, if missionaries are creating social tensions under the pretext of ???getting the poor, needy and the weak of seeing the light??? it is the responsibility of the government to step in to instruct these institutions to conduct their activities in a socially responsible manner. By that I mean instruct these institutions to realize that their activities though guaranteed by the constitution, must address their overall behavior and conduct in society, that???s where the Indian Penal Code comes in. I can quote sections of that if you want.

        Caste system: Your post oozes with anger rather than reason. You fail to recognize the dedication and sacrifice of millions of ordinary Indians who play a part in social causes whether it be for children, the elderly or women???s rights. To pour your deep rooted hatred of previous ills into verbally attacking a religion stems from your inability to look at the bigger picture and asking yourself, ???How can I help???? For that you need humility not anger.

        Tribals: Many tribals around the country were ???left alone??? so that they could continue to practice their ways and thereby protect their identity. As an Indian I take great pride in the diversity of my Nation. They were not left in the darkness for all time, as you call it.

        Question is can we do more to help, yes. In a country that continues to struggle to provide basic needs to a vast majority of its population, the need of the hour is a helping hand, not religious indoctrination of any kind. Feed the poor, educate them, provide health care, encourage means to secure loans and provide them with access to practical training, to name a few. Do it because it is the right thing to do and because you want them to see ???your very tainted light???.

        Don???t confuse your right to expression with your moral obligation of conduct in society. Be polite, and genuine, you will win a lot more hearts and minds than with anger.

        • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 6:58:08 PM

          srinivas, I have nothing to say. You said it: poor, sick and needy - o yes the missionaries are doing great "adharma". !!

          • Posted By: stholas @ 10/17/2008 3:34:12 PM

            Your missionaries are exploiting the poor, sick and needy. Fooling people into changing their beliefs is not the same as peacefully converting them. What the missionaries are doing, is practicing coercion. Go look up 'coercion' in the dictionary. Under no circumstance is it considered acceptable. Yes, the poor, sick and needy are in need of help. Help them for the sake of helping them, not for the sake of converting them. India is a poor country, and we are doing what we can right now. In time, we will be able to tackle poverty better. And please don't pass judgement on the Indian people. The last time someone came into our country to establish relationships with us, they stayed behind for over 200 years, and ended up exploiting us. Forgive us if we're a little paranoid, but at least we don't have a problem with a white woman running the most powerful party in the country.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 12:56:22 PM

      Right to convert? Indian constitution guarantees the right of propagation of religion. Problem is that Catse system based on the authority of Brahimns still exists in India, with dalits on the lowest levels. "Tribals" are so far out most of these people cared them less than animals so they did n't put them in the four classes. So the whole India forgot about them. So what if missionaries work among them and show them light? I know, most of the upper classes don't want the dalits and tribals to get educated. This has been the curse of India. instead of attacking and killing missionaries and raping nuns, you Nazis should form organizations to help out these downtrodden people of India.
      yes most of the tribals are not even in the mainstream hinduism partly because of the aforementioned problems of Hinduism and slo becaus ethey have their own tribal gods just like any othe rtribals around the world. does not mean that they should be left in the darkness for all time!!

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 10/16/2008 12:55:31 PM

      Right to convert? Indian constitution guarantees the right of propagation of religion. Problem is that Catse system based on the authority of Brahimns still exists in India, with dalits on the lowest levels. "Tribals" are so far out most of these people cared them less than animals so they did n't put them in the four classes. So the whole India forgot about them. So what if missionaries work among them and show them light? I know, most of the upper classes don't want the dalits and tribals to get educated. This has been the curse of India. instead of attacking and killing missionaries and raping nuns, you Nazis should form organizations to help out these downtrodden people of India.
      yes most of the tribals are not even in the mainstream hinduism partly because of the aforementioned problems of Hinduism and slo becaus ethey have their own tribal gods just like any othe rtribals around the world. does not mean that they should be left in the darkness for all time!!

  • Posted By: dwellingdon @ 10/17/2008 1:24:05 PM

    All this happens is because of Gujarat.......BJP is trying to gather hindu votes what they tried and worked in Gujarat....

  • Posted By: 77.amit.j@gmail.com @ 10/17/2008 10:13:13 AM

    @abey: This is not correct. A pro Hindu party did not rule in India until 1996 and even that was in coalition with other political parties.

    What is happening is that the younger generation is finding that some of the policies advocated by the BJP and the writers of the Indian constitution regarding limits on religious freedom on the lines of France (for e.g. the ban on obvious religious symbols like Sikh turbans) and USA (for e.g. the ban on polygamy and personal laws like Sharia) make sense.

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