Exactly How Bad Is It?

It would be nice if the question would just be answered "yes" or " no". Either we have had a 10% decline over the last two quarters or we haven't. Which is it? Secondly, if in the 1930's, there was a 30% decline, then we could be in a depression that is not as severe as then; however, to state we are not there etc, etc is the equivalent to stating that a town hit by a cat 4 hurricaine didn't experience one because it wasn't a cat 5. I am not an economist, but know we are in trouble. So, I am asking, if by the given definition of a 10% decline over the past two quarters, are we experiencing a depression?

Spread the wealth how. Look at his past. Obama in this video, addressing his work with ACORN litigation against the banks and relating to the Community Reinvestment Act and the failure of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, as they relate to the current real estate and financial crisis, states that, and I quote:

"Subprime lending started out as a good idea, helping Americans buy homes who previously could not afford to. Financial institutions created new financial instruments that could securitize these loans, slice them into finer and finer risk categories, and spread them out among investors and around the country, as well as around the world. In theory, this should have allowed mortgage lending to be less risky, and more diversified."

"The original idea was a good one, which was, lets see if we can distribute risk more broadly, and make it easier to provide loans to people who otherwise might not be able to get one."

Listen for yourself. You cannot dispute the mans on words recorded live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1M1T2Y314&feature=related


Obama in this second video is campaigning at a convention of Acorn and I believe two other ???Community Activist's organizations. Ask if he will be their ally if he becomes President, Obama says, quote:

"Yes, but let me say that before I even get inaugurated, during the transition we are going to be calling all of you in to help us shape the agenda."

See and hear it for yourself. Obama promised that Acorn and other groups like it will setting his agenda if elected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU
Below is a link to C-SPAN video clips of the Congressional hearings at roughly the time McCains attempt at S.190. to fix Fannie and Freddie. See for yourself who said what.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
See also
http://www.newsweek.com/id/164732 from this web site. (oops!) stating that Freddie Mac was spending tax payer money to target Republicans in 2005 who were trying to regulate Fannie and Freddies fraud. Democrats were not targeted, as the were all in the tank with Fannie and Freddie to kill the regulations. Hear that, the article admits that Republicans were trying to regulate Freddie and Fannie, and Democrats were trying to stop it from happening as a means to facilitate the Community Reinvestment Act.

See also: http://www.newsweek.com/id/164972
Stating that Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act wasn't what caused the meltdown, and noting that "economists on both sides of the political spectrum have suggested that the act has probably made the crisis less severe than it might otherwise have been."

See: http://www.newsweek.com/id/164972
Stating that Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act wasn't what caused the meltdown, and noting that "economists on both sides of the political spectrum have suggested that the act has probably made the crisis less severe than it might otherwise have been."

Who "Joe the plumber" may be is not the issue, though it's easy to see why the Dems want it to be. That's because the real issue is what Obama's comments to him revealed about Obama. In the exchange with "Joe the plumber" we find out that Obama really is as radical as his early political acquaintances, Davis, Ayers, Wright, etc., and that he is into the failed economic policy of wealth redistribution. Obama's tax and spending plans alone would be bad enough, but add Reid and Pelosi to the mix, with the three of them controlling both houses of Congress and the executive branch without any effective restraint, and you have something that should causes concern even among moderate Democrats.
See Wall Street Journal: A Liberal Supermajority:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html

And whether McCain won or lost the third debate is also not relevant. He succeeded in the first half hour to plant the seeds of a Reagan style wipeout. Reputable historians and economists overwhelmingly agree that the taxation imposed by Hoover and FDR, and the "stimulus" spending and public works programs of FDR, actually deepened and prolonged the Great Depression. It was the production demands of WWII that got the economy going again. And when the war was over, the economy promptly went into recession.

See e.g. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/03/opinion/main4499465.shtml
And
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

Point is, Obama's programs are to tax, and it does not really matter who he taxes, those taxes are going to be passed through the economy. He has to tax, because it is they only way he can pay for his massive social engineering experiments. Any first year economics student knows that taxation is a tool used to contract an economy experiencing inflation, because it reduces demand by reducing the amount of money individuals and businesses have to spend. It is contractionary, which is exactly what you do not want to do when the problem is that the economy is contracting already into recession. Like Hoover and FDR, Obama's plans will only make it worse for longer.

THE GREAT BUSH DEPRESSION
I follow an economist named Bob Proctor. He has called the top and bottom of every market crash since the 70s correctly.
He perfectly predicted the current meltdown and the picture he paints about what will happen next
is terrifying.He thinks it will be worse then the great depression.
The banks in the U.S. are going under one after the other. Countrywide ,Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch , Fanny and Freddy Mae ,AIG
The government took them over because they are bankrupt. Even with the goverment nationalizing hundreds of billions of dollars in debt the stock market is crashing
the credit markets are frozen and all of us may suffer beyond anything seen in generations
McCain just like Bush " doesn't understand the economy".
That not just my opinion its his own words. Not only does he not understand how to fix it but he does not understand how its been broken.
It is no surprise that he doesn't. The people that make up these securities use quantum mathematical models very few people understand.
Bush and McCain both can take the credit for this mess since they helped deregulate the laws that were protecting us.
Bush's economic advisor Phil Graham wrote the deregulation bill that allowed banks to take huge risks with all of our future.
Now, Phil Graham is the head of McCain's economic policy.He is also McCain's choice for the next secretary of the treasury.
No one in this country can afford for that to happen. The last time Bush met with his economic advisors was in March. He was the last to know somthing was wrong. Phil Graham had the guts to say that we are in a mental recession after he helped create the worst economy meltdown in our lifetime. Check out this link to the truth http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo
It will take the best and brightest minds in the world to get us out of this nightmare. As bad as Bush has done, McCain would be
even more destructive because things are in much worse shape. The next president will not inherit a budget surplus like Bush did but a crashing economy and a 11,600,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars deficit. Most of it Bush created and it will take decades to pay it back.
If you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got.
When it comes to policy Bush and McCain are the same 90 percent of the time.
So why are the polls even close then ?
Mccains team just said they no longer want to talk about the economy.Instead they would like to spend time talking about obama
which means running the biggest smear campaign in history.
They think they can just tell you lies and you wont be smart enough to see through it
Let's teach him we are smarter than that
Stand up and hold them accountable
Bush isn't on the ballot this year but his policies are
Elect Obama Biden 2008






Check out this video of sarah palins interview and ask your self if she understands what she is talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ

THE GREAT BUSH DEPRESSION
I follow an economist named Bob Proctor. He has called the top and bottom of every market crash since the 70s correctly.
He perfectly predicted the current meltdown and the picture he paints about what will happen next
is terrifying.He thinks it will be worse then the great depression.
The banks in the U.S. are going under one after the other. Countrywide ,Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch , Fanny and Freddy Mae ,AIG
The government took them over because they are bankrupt. Even with the goverment nationalizing hundreds of billions of dollars in debt the stock market is crashing
the credit markets are frozen and all of us may suffer beyond anything seen in generations
McCain just like Bush " doesn't understand the economy".
That not just my opinion its his own words. Not only does he not understand how to fix it but he does not understand how its been broken.
It is no surprise that he doesn't. The people that make up these securities use quantum mathematical models very few people understand.
Bush and McCain both can take the credit for this mess since they helped deregulate the laws that were protecting us.
Bush's economic advisor Phil Graham wrote the deregulation bill that allowed banks to take huge risks with all of our future.
Now, Phil Graham is the head of McCain's economic policy.He is also McCain's choice for the next secretary of the treasury.
No one in this country can afford for that to happen. The last time Bush met with his economic advisors was in March. He was the last to know somthing was wrong. Phil Graham had the guts to say that we are in a mental recession after he helped create the worst economy meltdown in our lifetime. Check out this link to the truth http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo
It will take the best and brightest minds in the world to get us out of this nightmare. As bad as Bush has done, McCain would be
even more destructive because things are in much worse shape. The next president will not inherit a budget surplus like Bush did but a crashing economy and a 11,600,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars deficit. Most of it Bush created and it will take decades to pay it back.
If you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got.
When it comes to policy Bush and McCain are the same 90 percent of the time.
So why are the polls even close then ?
Mccains team just said they no longer want to talk about the economy.Instead they would like to spend time talking about obama
which means running the biggest smear campaign in history.
They think they can just tell you lies and you wont be smart enough to see through it
Let's teach him we are smarter than that
Stand up and hold them accountable
Bush isn't on the ballot this year but his policies are
Elect Obama Biden 2008






Check out this video of sarah palins interview and ask your self if she understands what she is talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ

THE GREAT BUSH DEPRESSION
I follow an economist named Bob Proctor. He has called the top and bottom of every market crash since the 70s correctly.
He perfectly predicted the current meltdown and the picture he paints about what will happen next
is terrifying.He thinks it will be worse then the great depression.
The banks in the U.S. are going under one after the other. Countrywide ,Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch , Fanny and Freddy Mae ,AIG
The government took them over because they are bankrupt. Even with the goverment nationalizing hundreds of billions of dollars in debt the stock market is crashing
the credit markets are frozen and all of us may suffer beyond anything seen in generations
McCain just like Bush " doesn't understand the economy".
That not just my opinion its his own words. Not only does he not understand how to fix it but he does not understand how its been broken.
It is no surprise that he doesn't. The people that make up these securities use quantum mathematical models very few people understand.
Bush and McCain both can take the credit for this mess since they helped deregulate the laws that were protecting us.
Bush's economic advisor Phil Graham wrote the deregulation bill that allowed banks to take huge risks with all of our future.
Now, Phil Graham is the head of McCain's economic policy.He is also McCain's choice for the next secretary of the treasury.
No one in this country can afford for that to happen. The last time Bush met with his economic advisors was in March. He was the last to know somthing was wrong. Phil Graham had the guts to say that we are in a mental recession after he helped create the worst economy meltdown in our lifetime. Check out this link to the truth http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo
It will take the best and brightest minds in the world to get us out of this nightmare. As bad as Bush has done, McCain would be
even more destructive because things are in much worse shape. The next president will not inherit a budget surplus like Bush did but a crashing economy and a 11,600,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars deficit. Most of it Bush created and it will take decades to pay it back.
If you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got.
When it comes to policy Bush and McCain are the same 90 percent of the time.
So why are the polls even close then ?
Mccains team just said they no longer want to talk about the economy.Instead they would like to spend time talking about obama
which means running the biggest smear campaign in history.
They think they can just tell you lies and you wont be smart enough to see through it
Let's teach him we are smarter than that
Stand up and hold them accountable
Bush isn't on the ballot this year but his policies are
Elect Obama Biden 2008






Check out this video of sarah palins interview and ask your self if she understands what she is talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ

i'm not quite sure what a solid definition of a depression is, but i do know how it feels when everyone in my family loses their jobs. My wife, my mother, my sister and brother-in-law. even though i still have my job they've cut the hours back to significantly that even the simplest of tasks are gargantuin. while all this is happening they are beginning to hire. theres good talent out there without a job. if they can hire them for less money than i make i'm next to go... it's a brave new world!!!

ALTHOUGH WE MAY NOT BE IN WHAT IS TYPICALLY CALLED A DEPRESSION IT SURE FEEL LIKE IT TO ME AS THAT I AM CURRETLY UNEMPLOYEED AN SEEKING NEW EMPLOYMENT AT THE SAME TIME . I N MY PERSONNAL BELIEF THAT THIS WHOLE ECOMONIC DOWNTURN IN THE ECOMONY IS MAINLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT SINCE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE OF RUNNING EVERY ASPECT OF THE COUNTRY FOR THE LAST PAST EIGHT YEARS IT IS ONLY FAIR TO LAY THIS WHOLE SITUATION AT THEIR FEET AN THE BUSH ADMINSTRATION DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN ENVOLVED IN WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS CONSIDERED TO BE A UNJUSTFIBABLE WAR IN IRAQ FOR MOST OF THE LAST PAST EIGHT YEARS JUST IN ORDER TO BENEFIT THE CONTARCTORS AN THE CONTRACTING INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE. I HAVE PERSONNALY BEEN EXPECTING TO SEE THEM REPUBLICANS LET A CONTRATC TO WIPE PRESIDENT BUSH'S BEHIND IT HAS GOTTEN JUST THAT BAD IN MY OPINION. BUT IF THESE CONTRACTS WHERE TRUELY JUSTIFIABLE THAT IS ONE THING BUT FOR THE UNITED STATE TO HAVE TO TURN AROUND AN RE-LET THESE SAME CONTRACTS OVER AGAIN AN TO THE SAME CONTRACTORS THAT FIRST WERE AWARDED THESE CONTRACTS FOR THEM TO HAVE TO FIX/ REPAIR CONTRACT WORK THAT WAS ORIGINALLY DONE AN NOT DONE OR HELD TO ANY FORM OF STANDARDS OF SPECEFICIATIONS OR FOR THESE CONTRACTS TO NOT HAVE BEEN PROBABLY INSPECTOED TO START WITH IS JUST PLAIN WRONG THANK YOU

Neither recession or depression. Summer is always tumultuous time for Wall street for a variety of reasons. This year gas price, election, and housing market added extra turbulence to the market. In long term, it is good that credit has tightened and people are cautious in buying those million dollar houses and expensive cars. In addition, some political groups trying to lower the market by short selling to look economy bad.

I think you should ignore the comments by Scott; he's an idiot.

This time its little diffrent than 1929. The robbery just took place, the aftermath is now being felt,the screwing is on its way.Republican mojo ",buddy can you spare a dime". Blame Clinton.

PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE TO BE HELD SUNDAY AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

The Free and Equal Elections Coalition (FREE) and the Columbia Political Union are pleased to announce that a Presidential debate will be held this coming Sunday, October 19th, 2008, on the campus of Columbia University.

ALL SIX of the Presidential candidates who appear on enough state ballots to acquire the 270 Electoral Votes needed to become President are invited. They are as follows (listed in alphabetical order by affiliation):

Constitution Party Candidate: Chuck Baldwin
Democratic Party Candidate: Barack Obama
Green Party Candidate: Cynthia McKinney
Independent Candidate: Ralph Nader
Libertarian Party Candidate: Bob Barr
Republican Party Can John McCain

The Columbia Political Union will present the debate from 8:00pm to 10:00pm in the Altschul Auditorium, located at 417 International Affairs Building. The debate will be moderated by Pacifica Radio's Amy Goodman, the host of "Democracy Now!". CSPAN will cover the debate, and live radio broadcasts are expected.

"The Columbia Political Union is committed to energizing political discourse on Columbia's campus," said Allon Brann, Columbia Political Union Publisher. "As a non-partisan organization, we work to provide students with opportunities to encounter and engage with political ideas across a wide ideological spectrum, and on a wide range of issues."

"It is with these goals in mind that we have organized this Presidential Debate: to give all candidates-- either within or outside of the political "mainstream"-- the opportunity to speak directly to students about their goals on the issues they deem critical for this country."

"We have invited all eligible candidates, and it is our sincere hope that all will participate, to ensure the substance and rigor of the dialogue which we believe is crucial at this time."

Certified letters officially inviting each candidate have been sent to the respective campaigns.

The Free and Equal Elections Coalition and the Columbia Political Union await the response from the candidates. All candidates' supporters are encouraged to contact the Presidential campaigns and urge them to attend.

The Columbia Political Union seeks to enhance involvement in the political process, domestic and international, and draw every member of the campus community into an ongoing discussion of political ideas.

FREE is a coalition of political parties, independent citizens and civic organizations formed to promote free and equal elections in the United States.

http://www.freeandequal.org/events.php?id=7

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE

Comment: by Ralph Nader
October 10. 2008
Rolling the Dice on Derivatives - The Nader Page

The derivatives markets of today have become a high stakes casino of unimaginable magnitude. Wall Street???s bets have gone bad, and now the whole financial system is in peril. In a best-case scenario, it appears, the taxpayers will be required to rescue the system from itself. This is why Warren Buffett labeled derivatives ???weapons of financial mass destruction.???

Amazingly, there seems to be some lingering sense that current-day derivatives properly perform an insurance function.

Case in point: Alan Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve Chairman. Greenspan says the world is facing ???the type of wrenching financial crisis that comes along only once in a century,??? but, reports the New York Times, ???his faith in derivatives remains unshaken.??? Greenspan believes that the problem is not with derivatives, but that the people using them got greedy, according to the Times.

This is quite a view. Is it a surprise to Alan Greenspan that the people on Wall Street ??? said to be ruled only by the opposing instincts of greed and fear ??? ???got greedy????


http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/rolling-the-dice-on-derivatives-by-ralph-nader/

www.votenader.org

....And a republican administration is going to side with the middle class against Banks? That would be the inference you are making. Nowforthetruth my #$$....Lol.

Republicans endlessly talk about tax and spend democrats. What they ignore is the tax cut and spend policies of their own party since 1980.

The writer, like all conservatives invokes the name of ronald reagan like it is some sacred mantra. ronanld reagan was the father of deficit spending. While he railed against government and cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, his defense budgets significantly expanded government size and spending. reagan's ability to con people into thinking that he could provide massive tax cuts that would majically pay for themselves, or that he would cut "waste ,fraud and fat" from government were belied by the fact that the national deficit in 1980 was around .9 trillin dollars, by the time he lefy office the national deficit had quadrupled to around 4.5 trillion.

Republicans predictably blamed the defict on democrats in congress, yet the CBO showed that reagan's budget proposals were as large as those put forth by congress. GWB and Cheney, pursuing the same economic policies as reagan have taken the national debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion in 8 years. Famously and accurately, Dick Cheney stated that "reagan proved deficits don't matter." What a sad and pathetic indictment of neoconservative leadership.

No the same people with this mentality want to blame the current financial debacle on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and ACORN. What a deluded and irresponsible clique of self serving fools parading behind the pied pipers of greed and corruption.

P.J. O'Rourke, a conservative, once stated modern conservatives "run against the evils of government and once elected, set out to prove themselves right." That is the true reagan/bush/cheney legagacy...

whos barney?? or Barry... Goldwater??? oh well i found the cached page. To answer the party of larry and the party of icare....your present government screwed up big time!!!!!! I believe the BUSH was in for 8 years .. the man who talks and walks with his God should have put a stop to money hungry managers and CEO's and tthe WAR! And how did he get elected .... paper wise....

This is certainly not similar to any past depressions. 1929, we were principally an agrian economy. The bull market had busted and one party control tried ot get even with the "rich' by seeking up tariffs. The fed pulled out cash. The the new IRS raised tax rates. Thus we had a lack of liquidity and farmers were losing the war to technolgy AKA expensive tractors, Unemplyment was 42% as were foreclosures, mostly farms..

In this case, we got in trouble by over-liquifying the economy Greenspan allowed rates ot get low. People use cheap debt to speculate on the democratic invention - the subprime backed by the freddie/fannie. Now, the government is dumping money into the system and hurting the dollar whereas in 1932 the dollar was too strong but no one had any.

Our risk comes when the economy picks up and lenders begins to drive the bank multiplier system. it will take excess liquidity and create inflation .if the Fed is not nimble, we will see the democrtatic terms in the 'seventies and early '80s when LBJ tried to pay for social programs and Viet Nam by printing new dollars.

This was hyper-inflation.

And, by the way derivatives and credit swaps have been around for decades. The amount of debt that has to be worked though is $3 trillion (yes 3) and the foeclosure rates has come to a halt. The lack of overstight was more on the states and many were democratic. Trying to make ths partisan and exxagerating the numbers is part of the hysterics. A very few corporations did get stupid. But regulators and congress had the duty to provide over-sight. This also was not due to a lack of regulation which drives jobs overseas. it was a lack of over-sight. The was, as always, a two=party duty.

One party did primarly cause this (and I say this as an independent). Credit swaps, and even more importantly the derivatives (bundling up of debts and selling them like products mixing in known bad with the good) that were allowed to go forward beginning in 2002 and 2003 are our bane and our downfall and will hurt us now for many years to come. They account for between 40-70 TRILLION (yes not billion) in likely bad debt for our country. They should be illegal but the republican house, senate, and president thought they were a great idea and allowed them to exist after deregulating at that time to make the way for them. This is REALLY why we are in this mess. Do you want a smart man with a smart team or a man who can't use a computer, doesn't understand economics, and not very bright (look at his grades from school) with a woman who got protection from 'evil witches' at her church in October 2005 that believe in more deregulation than we already have (which again is WHY we are in this mess) running our country. For me it is a no brainer! Both parties are guilty when in the last two years, the democrats coming on did nothing to outlaw these derivatives and credit swaps. The loans to less than perfect borrowers was fine until around 2002 when things changed the the opening up of credit to less than perfect credit borrowers (what Clinton did correctily back in '92) now needed to be backed off from (but wasn't by the republican house, senate, and president) Why these aren't a first priority to make illegal today is beyond me. They are the real root cause of our financial woes and still remain legal!