'Health' of the Mother

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  • Posted By: Emm05 @ 10/17/2008 6:29:19 PM

    Has anyone every checked this out - www.abortionbreastcancer.com?

    In 1986, government scientists wrote a letter to the British journal Lancet and acknowledged that abortion is a cause of breast cancer. They wrote, "Induced abortion before first term pregnancy increases the risk of breast cancer." (Lancet, 2/22/86, p. 436)

    • Posted By: shorty22 @ 10/17/2008 6:39:55 PM

      what does that have to do with the issue at hand?

  • Posted By: Americanfreedom @ 10/17/2008 6:37:53 PM

    Morons!! There is a child and it should be considered muder!! I bet you support Dr. Kevorkian too.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 10/17/2008 6:39:26 PM

      Why, yes... I did support Kevorkian.

  • Posted By: freedomgirl @ 10/17/2008 6:38:25 PM

    McCain's use of "Pro-Abortion" is also insulting to me. Pro-Choice means that the choice is available to potential mothers and their doctors and they can make a desicion based on several conditions including the mother's or fetus's health. I am not Pro-Abortion, but I am Pro-Choice. I am so sick of the Anti-Choice movement pushing their beliefs onto everyone else. Anti-Choicers: You have not walked a mile in anyone else's shoes, so stop trying to make other's choices for them. Go ahead and live your airquote "righteous" life, but only live your life. Leave other's lives and choices alone!

  • Posted By: jubileerose @ 10/17/2008 6:19:16 PM

    I am so, so tired of everyone tearing every single thing apart that Mr. McCain says.
    Where are the articles picking apart every word of Mr. Obama?
    I don't believe I have EVER seen such media bias in my life, and it sickens me.
    That being said, Obama said that instead his daughter living with the consequences of having sex( a baby), he'd prefer to kill the unborn baby.
    That's what's wrong with society. We're taught we can make our problems, including babies, just "go away".
    That's the wrong approach to morals, life, and abortion.

    • Posted By: Nins @ 10/17/2008 6:35:46 PM

      Jubilee, you have NEVER seen such media bias in your life? What, you have never watched Fox News?

      Also, Newsweek is picking apart what McCain is saying because what McCain is saying is full of lies and deceit. Pointing out the inconsistencies in McCain's statements is good journalism.

  • Posted By: DoubleEzy @ 10/17/2008 10:54:30 AM

    nimodahooligan you are right on! We need to make a distinction between Pro-Life and Pro-Birth philosophies. If the repubs want to deny safe and legal access to concraception and abortions, they better damn well be willing to pay more taxes (or defer defense spending) to make sure those children are cared for. Their refusal to do show exposes the real driver behind their reproductive platform: Misogyny, NOT the welfare of children.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 11:19:07 AM

      Sure...much more HUMANE...to just kill...the inconvienience......YOU ARE SICK with a dose of EVIL....
      I'll wager you oppose Capital Punishment though....

      NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: Luridmoon @ 10/17/2008 6:33:13 PM

        NOGOD! Viva la evolution!

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 11:12:10 AM

      McCain has adopted 2 children. Palin brought to term a down syndrome child and her daughter is having her baby. I think they actually practice what they preach.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 11:20:26 AM

        yea, that abstinence education really paid off didnt it.

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 11:34:13 AM

          You think that if you cannot support a moral position without being perfect. The goal is to strive to be the best we can be. We don't always live up to it. I can tell you thought that for those who do follow this approach faithfully, pregnancy is not an issue.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 10/17/2008 11:17:19 AM

      I figures the looney left always wants the radical rights to take responsibity for other's actions... I have a novel idea! Why don't you guys grow up and be responsible for the decisions you make and quit trying to find the best way out of a decision that will (1) cost you money (2) cause you to be responsible (3) to know that you can get CONDOMS for free at any clinic. Gessssshhhhhh GROW UP LOSER!

  • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 11:50:02 AM

    hey holyroller:

    you might have missed my post from earlier...here it is again for you...

    Comment: im getting really tired of the ultra right wing christian conervatives preaching about saving the babies...when such a small percentage of you are willing to adopt. until you have the courage to adopt a child that might not be the same color as you, or from the same background, or even "normal" or in "gods image" you hav no right to even open your mouth...you have the courage to sit here and judge women and families and they're own choices yet you would very rarely see at an orphanage, or trying to adopt from overseas, or even donating money to help these childeren. your not coming up with new ideas or plans to "save" these childeren once they are born, your not taking action yourself on any front beside preaching the good word. im sick of it. ive been to plenty of countries, and places in the united states for that matter, where people live in squalor and poverty. walking talking thinking childeren and kids need help NOW...and your the last people half the time to stand up and REALLY help. but your totally comfortable standing in front of an abortion clinic screaming at people you dont know or have any idea what they are going through in they're lives telling them they are baby killers... when did america lose sight of its freedoms? or ideals? this is not "one nation under 'God'" anymore, this is one nation under Buddha, Allah, Krishna, and too many others to name...our ancestors came here to escape prosecution for they're choices and here we are again, repeating history like we are still in the dark ages. do you know how midevil some of you sound???

    i have propositions to every person opposed to abortion for whatever reason...go out right now on your high horse of morality and head down to your local orphanage, or "battered womans" shelter, or the rehab clinic and ask the women there if you could help take care of they're childeren, or adopt, or fly to india and watch 8yr old girls sleeping alone in alley ways and in gutters, go see the rural areas of 3rd world countries and see what those childeren are going through, try talking to a 5yr girl with full blown AIDS and save her in her last days of life...go to africa and save childeren from malaria and civil war...go help the childeren that need real serious help...your such stand up humanitarians than go out and practice what you preach. get off your soap boxes and make a difference now in a childs life.

    i bet maybe 1% would. from what ive seen in my life and times... until you have the courage to do that, you should really just not open your mouth because there are soon to be over 7 billion people living on this planet, a large percentage of that being childeren. so go save 1. just one. then you can sleep easy at night and leave people and they're personal problems and choices alone.

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:00:00 PM

      If you believe that only far right fundamentalist christian oppose abortions you are sadly mistaken. I know many, including myself, in mainstream protestant churches, who oppose abortions.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:02:55 PM

        sorry, i ment to include all bible thumping soap box preachers and perfect beings...my apologies

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:07:01 PM

          Never was nor never will be "bible thumping". Your ignorant characterizations reflect sadly on you, no other.

          • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:12:13 PM

            so when did protestant become something other than christian? where is the difference between lutherans, catholics, evangelicals, christians, protestants...whos right? whos preacher the word correctly? whos interpreting the bible as it was ment to be interpreted? how much of a pastors own feelings and emotion go into sheparding his herds???

            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:19:32 PM

              I don't go around making fun of other denominations. I know what I believe. God can determine who is right or not right. That's not up to me to decide. Even though I would like to see abortions limited does not mean that I hate people who have had them. But if you don't believe that there are differences in attitudes, approach, between Christians you are completely ignorant. Also, ever citizens has the right to an opinion in this country, not just you. As much as I think your opinions are really limited, you still have the right to have one. Regardless of whether you have faith of any kind or don't it would not hurt you to show some respect for others.

              • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 12:30:04 PM

                There you go. You answered your own questions of abortion in your response to nimodahooligan. Only god can determine who is right and who is wrong. While I don't agree with people going out and getting abortions willy nilly, I think that the procedure is needed in some cases. God is the only one that knows the true hearts of people, so you should leave the judging to him. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

                • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:49:37 PM

                  i feel through my personal experiences that god does not exist, and if he/she does, he/she is not a very nice person. they judge yet say, "judge not lest ye be judged", so i have to rely on my eternal salvation and leave it up to some invisible man/god/woman/thing in the sky to determine if im good enough to get into the cool club...hmmm...religion is just as hypocritical as anything else on this planet. you base your life around a BOOK...a friggin book of stories...which is fine do whatever but have you ever taken a step back and thought about that??? maybe i should base my life around harry potter because he is my savior and dumbledore with let me hang at the teachers table one day

                  • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 1:13:21 PM

                    Hi nim,

                    I too question the existance of "God" as it is presented. I have this discussion with my family often, we have differences of opinion to say the least. But to me it is more about common sense I do not believe that we just popped up. I believe that there was some sort of divine intervention in all of this. Do I believe that it is the blonde blue eyed white guy in all of the photos Of course not, that description is not even historically possible! I do believe that there is something more than just us, but I also believe that we are not the only "intelligent" life, why would we be.

                    I also do not believe that whatever it is is all loving and powerful because if it is then why all of the hate, wars, genocide. I do have what I call conversations with as I term "my maker" I wish that I could believe blindly as my mom and millions of others do, but it is not who I am.

                    We all need to believe in something I just make sure that my belief/faith is well tempered with common sense.

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:30:57 PM

                      I think sometimes we confuse God's actions with man's actions. You might want to try a more modern version of the bible. It helped me understand more clearly. Sometimes I see God in other peoples actions or modern christian music, etc. It is hard though. With the world as messed up as it is sometimes I get discouraged and feel like God isn't around for me. Then I realize it's me who pulls away not God.

                      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:31:40 PM

                        "I think sometimes we confuse God's actions with man's actions."

                        I don't. Man's actions are real and god's actions are imaginary.

                      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:37:21 PM

                        then you realize the bible was writtne by a MANS ACTIONS...god didnt write it...MANKIND DID... but you knew that...

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:45:50 PM

                          I believe that the Bible was inspired by God. But man is not perfect only God is. This is only my belief.

                          • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:57:08 PM

                            god is the least perfect being in existance...he created the most vile creations on earth...HUMANS...we destroy the earth he created, we destroy eachother and in essance destroy his image, we defacate in his oceans, pollute his skies, and now are polluting his universe, we dont follow what he "said", all in all we are the biological remnants of a booger he wiped on the earth as he passed to go create something really cool like a supernova or another galaxy... we distort facts, we lie, we cheat, we steal, we definately dont love our neighbors, we commit adultery all the time, we do alot of things he doesnt like...


                            but hey, i can always be born again and be awash in the blood of christ and lifted by the holy spirit...

                            that just sounds insane all by itself..

                            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:05:51 PM

                              God is not a person. You really confuse God with man. We have free will. We make choices. Jesus while on earth was the most perfect person. What kind of word would this be if we all conducted ourselves like Him. It is not God we are usually acting like. Good luck in your journey I hope you find what you are looking for. I am really not trying to sound like I'm preaching. It's hard to explain how I feel, I just know I do.

                              • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 2:54:14 PM

                                Religion is an addiction just like any other. WHen people feel an overwhelming sense of religious sanctitiy endorphinms and adrenalin is release throug our body, very similar to when we are in love. People interperet the chemicals as the presense of "god". Therefore they become addicted to the feelings and are unable to experince them without the assitence of religion. There are great studies done on the psycology and physiology of people and their faith.

                              • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 2:19:18 PM

                                thanks and same to you...

                                i never mean genuine offense to anyone, this is how i see the world...

                                and i understand, or at least attempt to understand, your side of things...i beleive in something, i just dont think its a guy in long white robes and a beard...

                        • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 1:47:59 PM

                          Sorry I thought that you were replying to me.

                        • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 1:46:47 PM

                          As i said on that count you and I agree 100%

                      • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 1:44:41 PM

                        Hi,

                        but how do you equate what is and has been going on with this world throughout history and how we as humans treat each other with a being who many consider and refer to as "Our Father" A true loving Father would intervene when he sees that his children are continuing to harm themselves.

                        I am just unable to "Not Question" what I see as our reality.

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:59:38 PM

                          That is a hard one. An issue I have struggled with myself as a parent. Some of it I believe has to do with free will. We would be puppets if He swooped in all the time and saved us. Some of it has to do with us learning the same lesson over and over again to we get it. Some of it could be that we see a very small part of a much larger issue. To be honest sometimes when God does intervene I don't see it at the time because I'm so caught up in what I'm going through. Later I do see times where He is present. But overall I just don't know. It will be a good question to ask Him someday. What I do know is that He exists I see much evidence for that. .

                          • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 2:19:24 PM

                            I respect your views and opinions, I just am not able to really agree. As I have stated I sometimes really wish that I were able to believe as easily as most, I just cannot. I just cannot get past the fact that 'If" there is such a being as the one portrayed throught our history then why does he not do something about it. I understand Free Will but seriously Babies dying from AIDS and starvation, genocide, racism. I want "God" if he exists to DO Something! But it was great dialoging with you and I wish you and your family well.

                            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:46:18 PM

                              I wish you and your family well also. Sometimes it seems others have an easier time believing, but I think we all struggle at least at sometime. Good luck!

                  • Posted By: sjpersonal @ 10/17/2008 1:17:05 PM

                    I forgot, regarding your comment that the Bible is just a book of stories. I agree with you 100%, not only a book but a censored book written by people who did not understand what lightening is. Every hate group on this earth can pick up a koran, bible (many versions) the torah and find passages in there to justify, in their minds, their particular beliefs.

                    No the bible does not have much to offer me.

                  • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:10:16 PM

                    Sometimes I have felt that this is unfair. Until I read that God give eternal life to those who believe. You don't have to give much to get much. Also, why is anyone who has an opinion "preaching" while anyone who is not religious is just sharing their opinion. Everyone has a right to an opinion, religious or not. Unless your advocating a communistic or fascist society I suggest you get used to it.

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:35:38 PM

                  Using your argument we could have no laws. Murder would be ok because who could judge. Rape would be ok because society could not say that was wrong. When a life is involved I would tend to be more cautious not less.

                  • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:50:13 PM

                    nO it wouldn't, and you know it wouldn't you are just talking for shock value. Try making a sensible analogy. if you had you way we would be living like 3rd world countries liek El Salvador, going back hundreds of years, prosecuting women who miscarry for murder., like they do in el Salvador.

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:03:37 PM

                      No I am not the one who talks for shock value. You are the one who advocates the murder of people who don't agree with you. What I was trying to explain is this. Society defines norms both right and wrong. Within our laws those norms are reflected. Therefore, a society can determine that it is wrong to kill, wrong to rape etc. Judgements are being made in the law everyday. That is not playing God. Maybe I am older than you but I grew up in a time when people where not disrepected for religious beliefs. That is what the constitution projects. The freedom of people to be religious. Go read it. I did.

                      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 2:01:33 PM

                        WHAT!? You grew up ion what time? WHen they exterminated jews? WHen african American's couldn't go to college with whites. Couldn't golf on their golf courses? Couldn't use the same bathrooms. Have you ever been to the south? Desrespect! I don't believe in them and you want to pass laws based on religious ideologies. It's not murder, so you can stop calling it that if your not seeking shock value. The freedom of people to belive their religions not to have thier laws sanctify it. Now to tell two people they can't be married because they are two men, is no different then tell two people they can't be married because they aren't the same race.
                        I don't respect your religion, I respect your right to belive in your religion. VERY VERY different.

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:17:56 PM

                          I'm only 49 get real. You are so negative and angry it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you.

                          • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 2:44:47 PM

                            Why should I be angry? Abortion is legal... you don't make sense.

                          • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 2:43:43 PM

                            You have such tunnel vision that rationality doesn't even exsist for you.

                  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 12:48:42 PM

                    Paul says...to paraphrase..."You say you can't judge within???...Do you know not...you shall be judge of Angels!!".....Judge Not Least Ye Be Judged" is the most misunderstood and misquoted Holy Scripture in the entire Bible.

                    NOBAMA!!!

                    p.s. "all would be decieved....except for the elects sake"....Thank God for the elect...

                    • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 1:05:23 PM

                      I don't thank imaginary people for anything. I thank myself because I make and chose my own life now. Who cares about mis used qouted from fairtales anyhow? Actually a really misused qoute is " To have you cake and eat it too." It is actually to Eat you cake and have it too." You should be familiar with that. You want to save fetuses and kill people. So you think it's okay to kill babies after they are born? That is what I'm getting from you rants.

                    • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:53:09 PM

                      hahaha i know a few more than that but if you want you can try and back pedal and reword and throw your on opinion on it if you want...you can paint a dog purple, its still a dog and just looks really stupid

              • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:31:17 PM

                Have your faith and your opinion, just don't push to make your church's laws the state laws. Seperation of church and state I don't believe what you belive why should i be forced to by law?

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:37:27 PM

                  Do you not realize that most of our laws were formed from relig

                  • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:45:47 PM

                    DO NONE OF YOU REALIZE THIS COUNTRY AND WORLD ARE IN THE NEW MILLENIUM!?!?!?! HOLY CRAP....YES ALOT OF OUR LAWS WERENT BASED ON RELIGION, ONE RELIGION, PROTESTANT RELIGION. THAT WAS OVER 200 YEARS AGO....YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY OF THOSE "LAWS" ARE OBSOLETE AND OUTDATED? EVER READ OR LOOKED AT WHAT THOSE LAWS WERE??? again i say this country is no longer the land of one God, there are many walks of life, many different backgrounds, many different ideas and opinions, most of which i accept. but when it comes to people like you ms proud mom preaching acceptance of people opinions yet here you are being a hypocrite...thats what im talking about

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:55:29 PM

                      Call me old fashioned but I DO NOT BELIEVE that right and wrong goes out of style. Yes there are some laws that were or are outdated, like slavery laws, that needed abolishing. You don't through out the good with the bad just for "change" sake. Many of these laws were formed by very intelligent visionary people. It is arrogant in the extreme to assume because something is "contemporary" that it is in itself good. There are plenty of new ideas and laws that are harmful. Yes many of these ideas are over two hundred plus years old. They were created by people escaping religious prejudice, oppression, etc. Some things in the past are relevant today. In fact if you don't understand the past, you tend to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. I respect what make sense, not what era it is from.

                      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 1:25:37 PM

                        You are old fashioned. This country was founded one the corpeses of native americans and built on the backs of slavery. in 100 years or so people like you will be in history books about the time we were archaic. :)

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:39:30 PM

                          I've remembered my own motto. Never argue with a fool. I was breaking that by corresponding with you. I'm done.

                          • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:29:42 PM

                            Taking her ball and going home. How mature. You sure you are almost 50!

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:38:19 PM

                          Absolutely not. People who try to be the best they can be will never be outdated. People who shot for the lowest common denominator will not be remembered favorablely. Actually the mistreatment of Indians and slaves were done by the truly immoral. They may in some cases have called themselves moral but they were not. People who stop up against slaveholders or defended the American Indians were people of high moral character. These types never go out of style.

                      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:02:42 PM

                        we agree on some of these things, our founding fathers were true visionaries, but they werent envisioning a world of airplanes, space travel, nuclear power, and world wars...

                        they were also worried about women being witches and casting spell on them too...and they didnt shower for months at a time...in fact mr. franklin to "air showers"...he would just sit in front of some windows and let the wind whisk aways his stench, they thought wigs would never go out of style, i dont remember laws on abortion being around in the late 17th century....hmmmm wonder why....its a new day, new age, new politics, new world, in which calls for revised laws and policy....you point is moot. yes right and wrong never go out of style, and i never once gave the impression the a law had to be "contemporary" to be right...

                  • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:29:06 PM

                    It's not true. You need religion to know that stealing should be outlawed? Silliness.

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:38:27 PM

                  Sorry previously post was not completed. Check the basis for most of our laws today. You seem not that well informed.

                  • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:28:21 PM

                    Common sense is the basis of our laws, not religion. This is a myth propagated by the fundies.

              • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 12:37:29 PM

                whats ignorant to me is there are so many "approaches" to the same belief...people take the bible so damn literally yet change meanings of words and psalms and scripture to suit they;re liking. i know there are degree differences in attitude but there are honestly few "believers" that follow what they preach. and if jesus was around im sure he would be pretty pissed off at lot of us...

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:45:32 PM

                  Don't disagree he would be pissed. I'm usually not into taking things too literally.

  • Posted By: scoobs1979 @ 10/17/2008 6:30:44 PM

    The air quotes should have been around the word "mother" since its not really a "child" in their womb.

  • Posted By: shorty22 @ 10/17/2008 6:26:03 PM

    What happened to America, separation of church and state? How about the constitution? I am constantly amazed how people rationalize to themselves that there way is the right way and everyone else is wrong and yet still claim they are preserving the constitution and the foundations of this country. Laws were designed to protect people and individual rights. Laws in this country were not written to protect one way of thinking. Abortion is not the issue!! If you think abortion is wrong then DONT HAVE ONE it???s your CHOICE. But what gives you or me the right to tell some what they HAVE to do with there body. Let???s flip the scenario. If you were going to die from child birth and the state made you abort your child because letting you kill yourself was illegal and you would rather die than abort, how would you feel? If I have cancer are you going to tell me I have to undergo treatment? No.... So take a step back and think Just because you don???t agree for religious reasons you cant outlaw some one else from doing it. I don???t like abortion one bit but I would NEVER tell you what you could and could not do with your body because I don???t agree with it. Your rights are just as sacred as mine. Get over it and move on or get out of the US you are not really an American.

  • Posted By: paruby @ 10/17/2008 5:28:29 PM

    Holly roller may be a little strong in his choice of words but he makes a point about euthanasia...what if as a daughter i don't want to have to tend to my sickly parents and they are costing the state hundreds of thousands of dollars and they are mentally incapacitated...shouldn't there be a law to end their life? for their own "health" or the "health" of their children...what about the mental anguish it causes the family...unlike the unborn they got a shot a life...

    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:35:46 PM

      People are alive and deserve protection. Fetus' are not yet alive and thus do not.

      • Posted By: paruby @ 10/17/2008 5:48:42 PM

        but to what degree are the very sickly "alive"...they have terminated babies that could absolutely have lived outside the mother...so really when you are attached to many life sustaining machines are you alive? if you are reliant on machines just like a baby is attached to the mother how different is that...

        • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:03:00 PM

          Brain-dead comatose people are taken off life support all the time. So what? What's your point?

          • Posted By: lgustafson @ 10/17/2008 6:11:08 PM

            Oh John, your feminist ways will never get you laid ;)

            • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:22:36 PM

              My name's not John, and what the hell are you talking about?

              Why oh why aren't there any Cons that are capable of serious debate? Why must they all be brain dead?

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/17/2008 5:47:26 PM

      Actually he does not have a valid analogy. His/her argument line is easily dismissed as irrelevant.

      Medical science uniformly agrees that a senior or other he mentioned are still alive (there may be arguments about quailty fo life but not about its status as a life). Medical science does NOT uniformly agree that a fetus is "alive" in the same sense as a born human being. Potential life, maybe but not independently viable life. And the point is that once one has been independently viable (meaning that under normal circumstances that a being would be able to survive outside of the womb without extraordinary medical intervention,) one has certain rights. Fetuses are never independently viable, have no such rights. they are not yet alive.

  • Posted By: jubileerose @ 10/17/2008 6:20:26 PM

    Sublime Wisdom? Please! Mr Obama should have been a minister if that's the case!

  • Posted By: mareedee @ 10/17/2008 5:42:05 PM

    Here is the argument.......if they are going to just kill the baby in a late-term abortion for the "health" of the mother......then, they could do a c-section to try to save the life of the baby while maintaining a safe environment that protects the health of the mother. Babies are viable at 20 weeks outside the womb. Why kill it? I would dare say most of these babies are killed because the mother simply does not want it.

    • Posted By: Rhett Oracle @ 10/17/2008 5:49:53 PM

      You would have to "dare say." Because you couldn't base that comment on any facts. I have seen patients who need to have a late term abortion, and it was anything but convenient; it was to save her life.

      • Posted By: paruby @ 10/17/2008 5:53:36 PM

        no actually it really isn't all that often that it is life and death for the mother..it is usually mental health and financial problems that cause abortions...

        • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:00:34 PM

          Not late-term ones.

          • Posted By: rmoore36 @ 10/17/2008 6:18:15 PM

            If it's late term abortions that you are speaking of, which most babies could survive if given proper
            medical attention, why does a baby have to die because a mother's health might be at risk. It's funny,
            a mother who wants a baby would give it her all, mentally, physically, financially and MEDICALLY if her baby had to be born early due to her health being at risk. I think it's pretty clear how this term can be used to justify those who just don't want to have a baby.
            those who have decided that they just don't want have a child.
            how "a mother's health" can be used to say that she

          • Posted By: Rhett Oracle @ 10/17/2008 6:04:18 PM

            Not at 20 weeks. That's just not true.

  • Posted By: jlmracing-paris @ 10/17/2008 6:03:44 PM

    God is going to punish us for murdering our children,We should never condemn other nations for human rights while we kill our babys every day

    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:17:41 PM

      Are you talking about that young gal down in Florida? She's been charged with murder.

      Thankfully, abortion involves the termination of a pregnancy and not the "murdering of a child".

  • Posted By: marmac5 @ 10/17/2008 6:16:37 PM

    Igustafson --, your life was given to you by a "toots", so don't be so damned smug.

  • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 10/17/2008 12:10:04 PM

    Hate to tell you folks...John McCain is right about this one. My son's grandmother tried to encourage me to have an abortion by sharing her personal story. She told me that she had a late term abortion because the pregnancy was making her too tired and she couldn't adequately care for her other children. Too tired??? Really??? Is that a health consideration? Under the current law this qualifies. "Health" has been stretched to mean more that it indicates.

    • Posted By: tmitch10 @ 10/17/2008 1:11:07 PM

      That's truly ignarant! This person CHOSE to have the abortion. Their doctor did not recommend it, in order to save the would be mothers life. That is what this discussion is about, whether we should save the mother by aborting the fetus, or let the mother die to save a "potential" life, which may end anyway, because of the condition.

      When thinking about this argument, sadly I think of my wife. What if my wife were pregnant, and the pregnancy is causing my WIFE to slip away? What about my 6 year old daughter, how will she go on without mama? What about me? I love my wife, but I love my child as well, and by this point I'll love the fetus. What would you do in this situation? Let your wife die? Tell the doctor no (to the abortion), and possibley lose both?

      this is hard to even write, I would keep my wife. It's better for her, for me, and for my 6 year old beutiful daughter. Would it be easy? NO. It would, no question, be the hardest decision I will have ever made, But the alternative is unacceptable.

      Try empathizing with the opposing view.........

      • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 10/17/2008 2:33:11 PM

        I am pro-life but am sympathetic to the LIFE of the mother or rape & incest exclusions. Although I do not feel that I could personally make that decision, I do empathize with the opposing view. However, the question is whether John McCain was right about his comments regarding the "Health" of the mother issue being stretched to include inconvenience as opposed to a woman's life being in jeapardy. The answer is YES. This loophole is being exploited as indicated in my previous post and unfortunately is legal under the current law -- Read the legal exemptions in the article. It is obviously open to an excessively broad interpretation. If you're going to condemn me for my views, maybe you should have your facts straight.

        • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:15:07 PM

          Really? Procrastinating women are dragging their feet so that they can have an abortion in the late-term. Right. We believe you.

  • Posted By: Private Dancer @ 10/17/2008 6:13:38 PM

    As a Christian I would never get an abortion or recommend an abortion as a way out of an unwanted pregnancy. However, as an RN I have met women were compelled to abort because they could not afford another mouth to feed, the baby is not thefather's, a birth defect has been found and rape were the main reasons. My concern now as I have grown in wisdom is how we prevent these unwanted pregnancies from ever occurring. My husband and I have adopted a child who the mother attempted seven month abortion because her husband blamed her for the pregnancy and remained physically abusive to her throughout the pregnancy. My child has learning defects to include hearing dysfunction. I think we should operate with mercy as each situation is different for each mother and do all we can to prevent and offer adoption options (the bio mother's family was okay with an abortion but not okay with the adoption). People need to be educated and not judged for their final decision. Christians, ought to focus on the needs of these people rather than judge them for their choices. God said with love and kindness have I drawn you. By the way, the birth rate among non-hispanic infants is on the rise. I believe it is due to better birth control, better education and support by family members. Healing needs to take place even if the choice is not the one we would have chosen for ourselves.

  • Posted By: benluclar @ 10/17/2008 12:56:33 PM

    The answer to abortion is simple when discussing PRO-CHOICE.
    When a woman becomes pregnant OF HER OWN FREE WILL,
    the CHOICE has already been made: to be PREGNANT.
    I am a woman and mother.
    You have made your CHOICE, girls. Abortion is not an option for any reason which would be CHANGE of CHOICE.... after it is too late.
    For health of the mother, the point is, of course, obvious and clear, for it is a different matter.
    CHOICE is the REASON there is a pregnancy in the first place.
    Beyond that point, logic sets in.

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 1:04:25 PM

      Today's women don't want any consequences to their actions.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 1:15:11 PM

        not just women....that is why Obama has the large following he has...a movement started in the '60s is reaching fruition....it is not your fault...Govt. is here to take care of you...GOD is dead....Everyone is Equal....

        Khrushchev said they would take us from within...The lack of personal responsibility is staggering.....

        NOBAMA!!!

        • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 1:29:23 PM

          HollyRoller, Obama is going to be our next president. Look at the polls. Get used to it. For once, the intelligent Americans are coming out in droves screaming for a LEADER, not a bumbling moron like we've had for the last 8 years.

          • Posted By: markpt @ 10/17/2008 5:40:23 PM

            If you are comparing John McCain to George Bush you are NUTS or know nothing about McCain. I will not have a problem with a President Obama (as long as he doesn't allow Congress to spend like Bush did) but I did appreciate listening to the liberals crying after the last two elections. I have a feeling you will be just beside yourself and in disbelief if McCain wins. You better prepare yourself because the polls were showing Jimmy Carter as the next president 3 weeks before Ronald Reagan kicked his lily white, hillbilly butt.

            • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:13:33 PM

              Obama is not Carter. No way, no how. Obama is much smarter poltically and has a much stronger organization and message.

        • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:33:57 PM

          i think i have you figured out holyroller:

          your from the south
          you love god...obviously...
          your in your 60's or around there
          you think democrats are nazis and that liberals celebrate the death/abortion of a human
          you think we are terrible people
          your half crazy
          you love propaganda and moreover FOX NEWS
          your a bible fact spitting machine
          and if anyone doesnt agree with you they are SICK SICK SICK HYPOCRITES...

          from your posts do you realize how insane you make yourself out to be???

          • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 1:41:12 PM

            He's not half crazy, he's full blown nutso crazy. Sometimes he claims to be a man, sometimes he claims to be his wife Tiffany. I agree that he's bigoted and intolerant, and yes, probably lives somewhere in the deep deep South. He obviously believes slavery should be reinstated.

      • Posted By: not-fooled-by-slick-talking-charlatans @ 10/17/2008 2:27:27 PM

        And neither do today's men. That is why so many families are head by single mother's trying desperately to squeeze child support from their children's fathers.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:29:43 PM

        and alot of people dont want consequences to the repent and become born again christians...whats the difference???

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 1:28:16 PM

        What about the men? There are MANY cases I personally know where the woman was pressured into the abortion by her bf who didn't want it. Or how about the men that run off and don't pay child support or take care of their children? Don't put this all on women. Society as a whole doesn't want to take responsibility of their actions--from unplanned pregnancies, to foreclosures, to bankruptcies. It's an epidemic that is not strictly delegated to pregnancy.

  • Posted By: TJ4WV @ 10/17/2008 5:45:46 PM

    Disappointed in the article. It is all fluff. There is no mention of the real issue at stake (i.e., When does a human life begin? When should we value and protect a human life?) No questions that an abortion should be permitted if it is required to protect the life of the mother, not even the Catholic Church. Lots of people do have issues with abortion if it simply used as a means of birth control or to protect the mother from a potential emotional distress. O'bama has the most extreme pro-abortion stance of any presidental nominee. He will over rule all existing state restrictions (parental notifications, late term, partial birth, etc.) and will provide federal funding for abortions. He is so exteme that he even voted against requiring doctors and nurses to provide care and comfort to babies born alive after failed abortions. Don't believe the O'bama lie on the subject - research the case yourself. Babies left to die in the trash!!! God help us all if this is what kind of nation we have become.

    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:00:06 PM

      You are uninformed. Thankfully, McCain has the uninformed vote sewn up. We'll let you stay on that side of the fence and we'll take the votes of the rational.

  • Posted By: flyingblueberry @ 10/17/2008 5:47:03 PM

    The pro abortionist can whine all they want about John McCain's "mother's health" issues when considering late term abortion, but IT's TRUE... See Bolton vs. Doe which basically says a woman can kill her baby for any reason that includes psychological, their age, general feeling of well being. Give me a break!! If that's acceptable then lets not be shocked or shaken when a teenage throws her baby into the dumpster. The Feminist of the world have told our young people it's ok to dispose of life whenever you feel like it.

    • Posted By: paruby @ 10/17/2008 5:50:16 PM

      thank you, exactly...i am actually pregnant right now...and if in 4 months i'm having a bad day..and i just don't feel "healthy" enough to have this child, i can kill it...wow...that just seems shocking to me...

      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:58:35 PM

        It's not a child. It's a fetus.

        You have the choice. That's the key. Not some politician.

  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 12:43:37 PM

    If a pregnant woman falls victim to a violent crime...and...the unborn child dies....

    SHOULD...the perpetrator be charged with either manslaughter or murder??? If so...WHY???

    NOBAMA!!!

  • Posted By: livekite @ 10/17/2008 1:18:34 PM

    Women have been embracing the unescapable "risk" of pregnancy since the beginning of time. Historically, many women lost their lives giving birth, and the children went on to live full lives. Childbearing has never been risk free. Most women (like myself) feel the lasting reward children bring outweigh those risks. Yet now women live in a twisted world where they only want babies if there is no risk involved. This is not the natural way of humankind. So women should quit whining and acknowledge that with every reward comes risk, and you cannot manipulate that truism of life. SInce when does man get to decide who's life is more important? It's so disheartening to see the selfishness that has taken over this culture's way of thinking.

    • Posted By: CJinKS @ 10/17/2008 2:44:29 PM

      We have this thing now a days called "Medical Advancement" where a woman's life doesn't have to be at risk during pregnancy most the time. Men used to have to hunt for their food, but now we have grocery stores... Amazing how advancements through time have made things easier. I got from your email that since there is a risk of dying or health issues from pregnancy that the woman should just suffer or die simply because she is pregnant. If you get into a bad car accident, do you just want the medics to let you sit there since you took that risk of driving your car that day? Or do you want someone to save your life?

      • Posted By: livekiter @ 10/17/2008 3:21:18 PM

        Medical advancement is wonderful, but if you are going to use the car accident analogy, you should use it correctly. The more accurate question should have been would I want the doctor to save my life if the only possible way to save my life was to kill my passenger's life sitting next to me. Who am I to make that call? Why is my life woth more than my passenger's?

        • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:50:39 PM

          Better yet. What if your dog was next to you? Would you want the medics saving the dog instead of you, a human? Fetus' are not the same as a born human. Never was and never will be.

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