'Health' of the Mother

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  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 12:53:19 PM

    Nursing Homes throughout America are full of...USLESS...INCOMPETENT...SICK...and BURDENSOME...OLD PEOPLE...Hussein, Pelosi, and Reid can get together and pass a EUTHENASIA BILL....think of the suffering they could eliminate

    Think of the $$$ that would be freed up...Most are on Medicaid....costing us BILLIONS to keep alive....many are in late stages of Alzheimer's...they are a HUGE BURDEN to family and society.....

    Hussein could increase his Welfare Checks to ya'll.....

    I'm sure some of Ya'll have already thought of this...it is the Humane thing to do...isn't it???

    NOBAMA!!!

    • Posted By: toyak1 @ 10/17/2008 1:02:22 PM

      You sound very ignorant.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 1:16:57 PM

        It is more Humane than abortion...at least...they had a life...and think of the TAX CREDITS...Hussein could give away......What good is an old person???

        NOBAMA!!!

        • Posted By: toyak1 @ 10/17/2008 1:29:53 PM

          Right, they had a life once outside their mother body. A woman has a right to do what she want. If she feel that she is not capable of taking care of her child, who is. The child will be placed into the adoption system and who knows for how long. Maybe you need to adopt some of these kids and take care of them. On the other hand, maybe not. You sound like you have issues.

  • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 1:24:41 PM

    You know, if our society used half the efforts we have used defending or decrying abortion to deal with the root cause, we'd be much better off. We need to educate people better about prevention and also increase funding for prevention programs. We need to make birth control affordable or free for women so that there isn't a fetus to argue about aborting or not aborting in the first place. This goes for both sides of the fence--pro-life and pro-choice. That's one thing that impressed me about Obama. He stated the truth--no one likes abortions, and we need to adjust our focus to prevention of unplanned pregnancies, better education, and widely available birth control, support groups, etc. We can argue all day about abortion but it's not going to go away until we address the problems and solutions.

  • Posted By: easydoesit @ 10/17/2008 1:22:28 PM

    As I've always suspected... 'pro-life' believers are not really about life. They are about unborn fetuses. If they were really PRO life they would not indorse laws or votes that causes Death, such as death penalty or war funding. Being FOR life would require that. But exposure to this argument for years has not convienced me at all that pro fetus believers even considers life beyond the womb. They will even vote against funding of support toward programs that enhance life after birth, such as Headstart, Breakfast programs, medical benefits, educational aid, and after school programs. 18,000 children starve or die through illness due to malnutritian every singe day, day in and day out, on this planet, and we are carrying on about what constitutes a Mother's health needs related to her unborn fetus. Time to call it what is really is... PRO FETUS, only that. Don't get all uppity about LIfe when you do not endorce it exclusively but cherry pick your belief in it's sanctity. Time to put your vote where your conviction is if you really and truely are prolife.

  • Posted By: KarenLUC @ 10/17/2008 11:30:14 AM

    bojack27: What about a woman's mental health? It's not like the male has to wear the scarlet letter in his abdomen.

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 11:35:34 AM

      Women who have abortions also have mental health issues to deal with.

      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:11:06 PM

        Perpetrated by fanatical religious nutters. If people like Hollyroller didn't treat these women like social pariahs and say they were doomed to eternal damnation then they probably wouldn't feel bad. The

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 12:27:08 PM

          I wonder if you have actually talked to any of these women, or heard them speak. Their feelings come from within, from a sense of loss, from a sense of making a wrong choice. You comments totally ignore their feelings. Also, the obnoxious reference to "nutters" reflects poorly on you.

          • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 1:08:13 PM

            Yes i have talked to them. I went to highschool thank you very much. I have talked to a lot. I go to college and i have talked to a lot. Bceuase they will talk to me about it because I don't judge them. Judgey judgerton. Hove you talked to anyone outside a prochoice rally or your church? I doubt it

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 12:17:18 PM

          You are wrong and sick...I do not treat them as "pariah"s...I have compassion for them...I KNOW PERSONALLY several women who had abortions...the majority have come to deeply regret it...they suffer depression and anxiety because of the guilt...I know one who has even named her unborn...and begs forgivness constantly...I'm certain she is not alone....

          NOBAMA!!!

          • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:53:04 PM

            Begs for forgiveness from who? You? God? Society?

            Or from herself? I doubt from herself. From you fictional God that is what makes women feel guilty and have issues. Never ever once crossed my mind to feel abad about it and you know why? Bceuase I don't belive in fairytales You perpetuate this disgusting ideology and religious cult.

          • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:40:24 PM

            I know many that have had them and don't feel bad. So what are you then the moral police. I personally no many women who have had children and had children specifically because they don't believe in abortions. Women who have drugs problems and health problems and mental problems. My own nephew was 6 months old found dead in a hotel room because his mother overdosed on heroin. I suppose you like finding babies in dumpsters ad drowned in highschool bathrooms? I guess you think that is better for the mental health of women. Move to el Salvador, maybe they will remove your uterous for government evidence, trust me we won't miss you here in the land of the free. Take a walk down to your local foster home and see the quality of life and the high rate of incaceration of our unwanted youth. Save these children so that you can give them the death penalty. You are sick and you give Christians a bad name.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 11:39:12 AM

      What about the "mental" health of women who HAD abortions...then regretted it.....

      why would bringing a child into the world destroy a womans mind?

      ....there are many, many, many who would adopt...KILLING a baby, is not a form of therapy....



      NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: tutink777 @ 10/17/2008 12:32:01 PM

        Again, Holy Roller, you go way too far. How many have you adopted? How many children are in the foster care system in our country? How many are being abused or neglected because they were born to parents who did not want them?

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 12:36:00 PM

          so you argue...they would be better off dead??? You should love my Euthenasia Proposal posted above.....

          NOBAMA!!!

  • Posted By: mom2four @ 10/17/2008 12:59:36 PM

    I'm not necessarliy pro-life or pro-choice, but I do believe that a child is a child long before it's born. Isn't it such a tragedy when an unborn child is killed in a car accident or by an abusive partner? I have to wonder why so many of you are making such arrogant remarks about the mother's rights and completely ignoring the rights of children. As a country, we need to come together to make a decision about when life begins. We know what the bible says and we know what science says. Both of these point to life well beyond birth. When do babies have heartbeats, brain activity, the ability to sense their surroundings...and feel the pain of the procedure that may be ending their life or permanently disfiguring them. This is a reality for babies every day. It's no less important than the health of the mother, however you define that. One last point is that I wish we would talk more about how abortion affects women's emotional health. The rates of depression post-abortion are disturbing. Why is that & how can we REALLY help both women and children?

  • Posted By: dopelgangerA @ 10/17/2008 12:46:19 PM

    I don't want politicians to micromanage precisely what constitutes the "health of the mother" exception. Why can't we just trust our nation's licensed doctors, and the conscience of each woman, to privately decide this difficult matter without partisan intrusion?

  • Posted By: mom2four @ 10/17/2008 12:43:03 PM

    I'm not necessarly pro-life or pro-choice, but I think we are fundamentally asking the wrong questions and ignoring those who's lives and health are truly at stake. Children are children long before they are born. Don't we consider it a tragedy when a car accident or abusive partner kills an unborn child?? As a country, we need to take a hard look at who that baby is inside it's mother's womb and decide at what age of gestation that child has rights that can be taken into consideration with the rights of it's mother. We need to stop having arrogant arguments about what we think we know, and look at the truth of life. When there's a heartbeat; when there's brain activity; when the unborn child can feel the pain of it's life being ended. We need to stop asking, "when can mothers decide about their own health" and start asking, "when is it okay to kill a baby"? There are rights to be considered, and it is and should be more complicated than just the rights and privacy of the mother.

  • Posted By: Nins @ 10/17/2008 11:45:17 AM

    Partial birth abortion was developed to decrease damage to the mother during a late term abortion. In an abortion of a fetus greater than 18-20 weeks, the baby's head is so large and the mother's body so unready for induced labor, that extracting the fetus routinely tore the mother's cervix and caused massive bleeding. Usually the mother survived the hemorrhage, but often these women were unable to ever carry another baby to term after their cervix was lacerated.

    Think of how heartbreaking it would be for a woman who wants a child but for a medical reason can not carry the current baby to term. Perhaps her baby died inside of her, and inducing labor failed, then the abortion tears her cervix and she will have to remain childless. Or her baby had severe hydrocephalus, a 100% fatal birth defect that even most pro-lifers agree is a reason for a late term abortion. Or she had a hormone sensitive cancer such the the cancer would kill her if she continued the pregnancy, but if she aborts then does chemo she could have another child, but her cervix tears during the abortion and she will have to remain childless. As a doctor, I have had patients with all of these tragic problems. Because of cases like this, obstetricians came up with a way to abort late term fetuses without the baby's head tearing the cervix. The baby is partially delivered feet first, a small hole is made at the base of the skull and the brain is suctioned out, causing the soft skull to deflate and allow the delivery without tearing the cervix. Disgusting, yes, but it does protect the mother and allow her to have more children.

    Partial birth abortions are very rare. In Virginia where they keep track of this, a series of 25,000 abortions had only 60 partial birth procedures done.

    Personally I agree with you that late term abortions should be illegal except in the case of medical harm to the mother or severe birth defects. I think that I would put the gestational deadline for normal (not medically necessary) abortions at 16 weeks though, not 12.

    Incidentally, the reason why Obama voted against the 2007 bill banning partial birth abortions is because that bill did not contain a clause protecting the rights of women who needed medically necessary abortions and the victims of rape and incest. Obama is NOT in favor of late term abortions, but he does believe that in some extreme cases they should be allowed.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/17/2008 11:54:51 AM

      ninny...LYING AGAIN........Hussein told Planned Parenthood in July '07....

      Barack Obama..." Well, the first thing I???d do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act."

      This is a DIRECT QUOTE...and the "Act" eliminates virtually ALL restrictions for abortions...To say otherwise is a LIE...which you do excel at...

      NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 12:33:42 PM

        You are sick HolyRoller, NOWAY NO HOW NO MCCAIN

  • Posted By: floridacadman @ 10/17/2008 11:49:53 AM

    Ref; beagoodperson; In theory, your idea has some merrit I suppose, but in practice youd have the courts full of disputes, decisions and non-decisions. People lie, and lie a lot. And, who adopts all these kids that the "loose" girls are producing, and who explains to the children they were born of a mother that was, "spreading her legs for fun?" Choice is choice, its non of anyone elses business what she decides.

    • Posted By: max in fl @ 10/17/2008 12:26:59 PM

      floridacadman

      Many of the loose girls you are condemning were the victims of abuse first and turn loose to regain control of their lives. The collective judgement of these girls is probably the very reason why they act the way they act.

      Very FEW of us can judge ANYONE, and I certainly would not like *** to judge me with the same yardstick I'd use (before realizing what I'm doing)

  • Posted By: DaveWK @ 10/17/2008 12:18:35 PM

    McCain is the one who expressed an "extremist" position--one in which he derided consideration of a woman's health in connection with her right to terminate a troublesome pregnancy. So much for him standing up to the extremist elements of the Republican right.

  • Posted By: EE7011 @ 10/17/2008 12:15:52 PM

    I'm disappointed in Senator McCain's choice to use quotes, it didn't seem appropriate. This issue is so frustrating. On average, girls at 13 become aware of the fact that they are now living in a world where there is the possibility they could get pregnant and somebody will always have something to say about that. Something men will never understand or have to deal with. Men will most likely never have legislation passed or decisions made that elicit control over their reproductive systems and that is what truly divides us as men and women.

  • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 10/17/2008 12:13:11 PM

    Yes, I said my son's grandmother encouraged me to abort him. He was conceived out of wedlock but her concern was that she was too young to be a grandmother. I hated to tell her that since her son was 21 and obviously old enough to procreate, she was old enough to be a grandmother.

  • Posted By: dfitz0223 @ 10/17/2008 12:38:36 AM

    Clearly, abstinence is the best solution. I'm sure the Palins would agree.

    • Posted By: yanfu39 @ 10/17/2008 8:35:06 AM

      The funny thing about your comment is that, using the example of the Palin's to exemplify the "success" of abstinence makes no sense, since they obviously didn't practice it. Although I get your point, you're not talking specifically about abstinence. You are mocking the idea of educating kids with abstinence only as a means of lowering abortion rates. And I mostly agree with you. Abstinence should be taught as the best way, but alongside with having a responsible sex life should a person choose to have one. Let's face it though, if a person chooses to have sex at all, biologically that is the means of reproduction, so regardless of birth control methods, the safest bet IS abstinence, but it isn't always practical because the same biology drives us to desire sex (to reproduce).

      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 11:54:18 AM

        When I was in HSchool one of those abstinance only troops came byand right before our senior prom told around 6000 students, it was a large school, about the size of Palin's whole town, that condoms don't work. They had illustratios about how the weave of the condom is larger than the sperm and that even if you have sex you shouldn't use them b/c they don't even work. After I didn't hear one person say , ohh man I'm not going to have sex. I heard them say, I'm not going to have sex with a condom. These absinence group s are sick and driving up teen pregnancy and therefor teen abortion. Let your curch teach abstinance.

    • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 11:29:52 AM

      I'm married and I don't want a baby, should people be abstinate when they are married? I know how to take a BC pill so I'm good, but if I got pregnant I wouldn't hesistate not to have it. WHy? Because children are miserable ungrateful headaches, and basically end your life, spend the rest of your life having no fun being some miscreants slave. Ick!

  • Posted By: max in fl @ 10/17/2008 11:53:01 AM

    Before roe v wade there were abortions, there are abortiions now, if roe v wade were overturned tomorrow there would be abortions still. If you make it illegal women/girls will go to back alleys or unlicensed doctors. If a woman/girl is convinced she wants to get an abortion, as in the past the law (law of the land) will not stop her.

    Barack is not killing babies, we have to make it comfortable for the woman/girl to talk about her pregnancy so she can make an intelligent decision to keep it (with her priest, doctor, parents, or partner) instead of forcing her to make a decision alone and in private. Once she knows it is illegal she'll fear that anyone she confides in CAN turn her in and she will make her decision alone WITHOUT consultation from loved ones..

    For those who feel the support of roe v wade kills babies, I feel its reversal kills (permanently damages) mothers.

  • Posted By: MAZees @ 10/17/2008 11:52:53 AM

    The idea that there are lines of women waiting months and months to have their abortions is ludicrous. The health of the mother argument does come into play, however, when the fetus is determined to be extremely malformed. In our modern medicine world, we forget that childbirth has inherent risks to the mother and that at the beginning of the last century, maternal death rates were very high. These days, the risk is low and the odds of delivering an infant that can survive is very high. But if a fetus is discovered to have a malformed brain or heart that is not compatible with viability, the inherent risk of childbirth to the mother becomes greater than the chances of having the infant survive at birth. This very painful decision must be made by the woman and her doctor without government interference.

  • Posted By: JustMe2 @ 10/17/2008 10:49:15 AM

    It's about choice, make the choice for your health and situation. The Religions want total reproductive control over women. When you take away ones ability to have control of their own body and to be able to make indiviual choice then you enslave an entire gender. Choice needs to stand period. Anti choice is just wrong.

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 11:14:55 AM

      Maybe the pro-choice women should use some control over there actions before they get pregnant instead of after. Just a thought.

      • Posted By: sash @ 10/17/2008 11:51:02 AM

        Many of us are on birth control and use condoms at the same time. Bad things happen; in my personal case that would mean the condom breaking, etc.

        McCain and Palin are against birth control and want to limit it. This also extends to the Morning After Pill (Plan B). If you TAKE AND COMPREHEND a biology class, you will know that birth control prevents ovulation, though it is not known whether or not it prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, it is likely. Plan B is a stronger version of birth control, which likely works in a similar way, and prevents implantation.

        I am not Christian, and I do believe that life is important, however, I also believe that an abortion would be my choice and no one else's.

        In addition, McCain was around for the times prior to 1973, so he must remember that people (because that's what women are FIRST, PEOPLE) will have condoms break, will already have several children, are unwilling to EVER be pregnant, etc. and THEY DIED.

        Stop this "you kill babies" stuff. If you read a book, several in fact, you would be aware that if a baby cannot live without it's mother (usually prior to about 6 months gestation), then it can be considered a parasite, and will not live on its own, there fore is not it's own entity.

        So, for those of you that look at me and see a well-educated late twenties BABY INCUBATOR, I see you as inhuman, as well.

      • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 11:47:09 AM

        Most of them aren't women, they are young girls in their teens with bible beating parents who tell them condoms don't work, and the this magical man in the sky will damn them to eternal damnation in a firey pit of doom, for having sex before marriage. My philosophy... your preganat and not married, well your going to hell anyway might as well make it worth ride and have the abortion, and then realize that it's all made up and enjoy your life .

  • Posted By: judy.judy.judy.message @ 10/17/2008 11:50:58 AM

    McCain has always voted for less government in our lives when it comes to regulating banks and wall street and there is a buck to be made for large corporations, but more government in our lives when the lives of women are at stake.

  • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 10:42:00 AM

    AND...

    until some of you help in some way, whether is be through legislation, ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY helping by adopting (and thus support your argument of "give the child up for adoption") or come up with a legitimate plan beside "abstinence", which is the most unsuccessful way of preventing pregnancies and abortions (humans have sex, humans like sex, humans crave sex, unless your a selabate monk in the mountains), then what will you do? what route do you have once the bible isnt backing you or doesnt provide answers for the 21st century?

    support free contraceptives in schools, support free morning after pills, support free birth control, support REAL sexual education besides letting your young kids watch sexual TV shows cuz thats where they are getting they're information, that and they're equally uneducated friends. talk with your kids, start young, DONT SAY JUST DONT HAVE SEX BECAUSE THAT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT HUMANITY IS BUILT UPON...R-E-P-R-O-D-U-C-T-I-O-N...

    support free day cares in highschools and colleges so the youth doesnt feel pressured to drop out and not further and better they're lives. instead of passing judgement on someone you dont know thats going to get an abortion, sit down and talk to them, and see why they are opting for an abortion in the first place...maybe they are just as worried about the quality of life they would provide for that child just as much as you are worried about it...

    maybe they dont want an innocent child raised in an abusive relationship, or maybe the mother is addicted to drugs (go look at what a crack baby looks like and tell me that child will have a happy and productive life) or the product of a rape or a mistake one night stand (which happens, beleive it or not, ALL THE TIME and to all kinds of people..."good christians" and otherwise)

    half of you are the same people that try and stave off scientific facts, the same kind of people that didnt want to beleive the earth was round and we rotate around the sun.

    • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 11:49:36 AM

      Oh man that is so true. If you don't teach kids safe sex and act all Christine's mom about it then kids are going to learn it from shows like gossip girl and the New 90210 which started out with a BJ and oral is safe sex :) Can't get your mouth pregnant!

  • Posted By: europeandoll @ 10/17/2008 11:47:34 AM

    First and foremost, I am for educating prevention of pregnancies. Too many women take it too lightly and just simply terminate pregnancy. However, it is a woman's right to do so, as there are many circumstances when decinding on abortion. It is unapropriate to quote from a Bible, not everone a beleiver and what about Muslim and Jewish people. We seem to be so obsessed with the right on an uborn, yet we care less about human beings throughout its differnt life cycles. I see, so many dirty, hungry 2-3 year olds, I see not well mentally middle aged people, and completely abandoned older folks. Why don't we care more and speak more for these people??? Just as, Sarah Palin has her right to have 5 children, I have a right to terminate my pregnancy. I find this an absurd when old men, have so much to say about bringing up a life to this world and protecting it, whle at the same time "men are never faced with missing a period".

  • Posted By: Nins @ 10/17/2008 11:47:13 AM

    It has been the stated goal of the religious right to appoint conservative judges to overturn Roe vs. Wade for years. Bush is on board with this plan. Every single judge that Bush appointed to every single Federal bench that came open during his tenure was a right wing Christian conservative. The Democrats were stymied when the GOP controlled congress, and Bush got to appoint two right wing Supreme Court Justices.

    First Bush appointed John Roberts to replace Sandra Day O'Connor when she stepped down. When Chief Justice Wm. Rehnquist died in 2005, Bush appointed Roberts as Chief Justice, and then filled O'Connor's empty chair with Samuel Alito. Both Roberts and Alito are Catholic, and both are outspoken against abortion.

    Bush has appointed two of the nine Justices, including the Chief Justice. The current Supreme Court has been sharply divided on a number of high profile issues, including abortion rights, affirmative action, eminent domain, gay rights, the separation of church and state, sovereign immunity, and states' rights. The number of close votes in cases involving these areas suggests that a change of one or two key justices could completely shift the thinking of the Court on such issues.

    Right now there are four Justices who are elderly and will soon either retire or die. The next President will get to appoint at least two new Justices. If the next President is McCain, those two will both be conservative right wing Christians. McCain has publicly PROMISED to do this, and explicitly said that his goal is to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

    Supreme Court Justices are not being paid to interpret the Bible. They are being paid to interpret the Constitution.

    Most Americans, even most Republicans, value the separation of church and state. That clause is in our Constitution to protect us from exactly what is going on in America today! Allowing any religious group (especially a radical one) to control the interpretation and application of our laws in the highest court in the land is NOT democratic. Nor is it wise.

    I don't care if you are a disappointed Hillary supporter or an undecided Independent or a life-long Republican or are pro-Obama. ANYONE, regardless of stripe, needs to vote against a candidate who had declared his intention of appointing partisan judges. Judges are supposed to be impartial. That is the basis of our legal system. Without that, you might as well live in a dictatorship, without recourse to law.

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