'Health' of the Mother

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  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 11/01/2008 2:28:08 AM

    Now for some more truth. The Republican economic plan favors the chosen wealthy and does not do any good for the middle class or poor...unless you are living under a rock, haven't you noticed how the wages of many skilled labor jobs are at a poverty level with healthcare that is beyond the means of of the workers? And McCain screams his empty rhetoric at the subservient Amercan workers to get out there and work!!! My question is work for what? So I can run my health into the ground for some loathsome CEO who provides me and other workers wages that have no chance of keeping up with today's cost of living...and unaffordable healthcare to boot? What kind of condescending high and mighty self-serving crap is this? Now for some more truth...the McPalin bandwagon keeps spewing half-truths(lies) to gullible Americans who are jumpy enough to believe them without thourough critical thinking or research. Every Republican knows that all of us Democrats are communists, socialists, not real Americans, unpatriotic, terrorists...and more rhetorical lies that the Republicans swallow on whim. Do you recall that it was George W. Bush who pushed for the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED BAILOUT PLAN that was passed by both parties...government control...doesn't that sound like communism, socialism, not real Americans, economic terrorism? A while back, Sarah Palin was boasting that in her home state of Alaska, that it was good "SOCIALISM" ....YES, AMERICA, Sarah Palin used that very word to brag about the COLLECTIVE WEALTH SHARING in ALASKA!!! It is amazing how the righteous Republicans attempt to misinform the American public that the Obama/Biden plan is not American, but solialistic, yet both McCain and Palin have instituted "socialism"...McCain was in on the bailout vote and of course Palin good people of Alaska SHARE THE COLLECTIVE WEALTH under her leadership as governor. Isn't that amazing. This information is factual and true...Keith Olberman, it is to his credit of thouroughly investing to get the informed truth out there for we common folk to also be properly told the truth. Now for some more truth???

  • Posted By: Nowforsomemoretruth @ 10/30/2008 8:25:27 PM

    No ties to Acorn ya say?
    Former ACORN Employee Says Obama Provided Donor List
    The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports, "A fired staffer for an affiliate of" ACORN "testified Wednesday the organization was provided a 'donor list' from" Obama's campaign "in late 2007 for fundraising efforts. Anita Moncrief, a former Washington staffer for Project Vote, which she described as a sister organization of...ACORN, said her supervisor told her the list of campaign contributors came from the Obama campaign." The Philadelphia Inquirer adds Moncrief "gave a scathing, though at times vague, assessment of ACORN and its efforts to go into battleground states and help mostly minorities and the poor register to vote for the first time. The group, she said, barely trained its workers in how to register voters properly, and would fire employees if they did not meet a quota of 20 new voter applicants daily
    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_081030.htm

    Obama in this video is campaigning at a convention of Acorn and I believe two other Community Activist's organizations less than a year ago, in December 2007. Ask if he will be their ally if he becomes President and pledge to meet with leaders of Acorn and the others in his first year, Obama, who we are told has no contact to Acorn (another lie), not withstanding the $800,000 his campaign paid an Acorn group during the primaries, says, quote:

    "Yes, but let me say that before I even get inaugurated, during the transition, we are going to be calling all of you in to help us shape the agenda."

    See and hear it for yourself. Obama promised that Acorn and other groups like it will setting his agenda if elected even before he is inaugurated:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU

    The link below describes how some Democrats in Congress tried to use the original version of the bailout bill to divert money eventually recovered to groups like ACORN, a group Obama has a long association with. See:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/22/2008 3:02:06 PM

    SOS777, A bunch of whiners??? There are millions of Americans out there that have been screwed out of good, livable wage American jobs because of the economic policies ofn the Republicans. If this ever happens to you, you would be singing a different tune. Senseless outsourcing of LIVABLE wage jobs leaving the USA, while millions of American workers are forced to work for wages that CANNOT KEEP UP WITH TODAY'S COST OF LIVING...that is the reality my friend, and to ignore this and make no positive changes for better treatment of the American worker is downright ignorant and hateful and intolerant and all those other words that you used that you most likely have no grasp on what they really mean. This is not envy...this is seeking JUSTICE for the American worker...if you know the meaning of justice. American workers do not deserve to be treated this way.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 10/29/2008 12:50:34 PM

      I challenge you to name what companies have gone overseas or outsorurce because Bush administration. Most of these so called factory jobs are dwindling because of technology is making it cheaper to produce than cheap labor. This is why NAFTA has no affect now that China has chimed in on manufactoring... and pretty soon these people will be replace in advance of technology...

  • Posted By: Nowforthetruth @ 10/24/2008 11:23:34 PM

    A former Newsweek reporter admitted in an article this week that he has no objectivity and imagined disabling Rudy Giuliani so he wouldn't run in the presidential primary race last year.
    Michael Hastings wrote in GQ magazine that he had a "recurring fantasy" that he could somehow stop the former New York City mayor in his tracks.
    "I quickly realized Rudy was a maniac. I had a recurring fantasy in which I took him out during a press conference (it was nonlethal, just something that put him out of commission for a year or so), saving America from the horror of a President Giuliani. If that sounds like I had some trouble being 'objective,' I did. Objectivity is a fallacy," he said.

    http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_7484&pageNum=2

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/55_say_media_bias_bigger_problem_than_campaign_cash

    55% Say Media Bias Bigger Problem Than Campaign Cash

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2008/cyb20080819.asp

    Media Credibility Plummets, Just 30% Believe 'Most Trusted' CNN

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/25/2008 1:14:46 PM

      One reporter does not represent the entire paper.

      And there is just as much conservative media bias as there is liberal.

      Anyone who thinks that the press is completely objective (or has ever been so) is a fool. Intelligent people use multiple sources for their information, and those of us with inside sources that we have learned to trust (through their being correct over the long term) rely on them even more than the press. What those in power and/or in the know say to the press is not always as complete as what they say to their freinds because they ahve learned that the pres rarely reports that whole story even if it agrees with what is said. Part of that is due to the unfortunate fact that the aveerage American does not have either the patience or the intelligence to understand the whole story.

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/23/2008 12:55:10 AM

    If this is your malinformed version of an ill attitude, then I will claim to be guilty of an ill attitude that seeks justice for the American worker.

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/23/2008 12:50:08 AM

    Not hatred and intolerance of the American worker...hatred and intolerance of how the American worker is being treated....the American worker deserves better than this. I have looked in the mirror and know with a clear conscience that livable wage pay and affordable benefits is what is right for the American worker. Our economic policies need to change or our economy will go down the toilet fast. We need to enforce tougher labor laws so the worker is protected from the onslaught of corporate greed.

  • Posted By: Joan of Arc @ 10/22/2008 11:20:17 PM

    You are kidding me right? Air quotes? Air quotes are offensive? Wow, this is certainly journalism at its finest and sensitivity to the point of utter insanity. I've got some gestures you might find offensive but, air quotes aren't on the list. A woman who has made it through pregnancy to the point of being 'eligible' for what would be (if chosen) a late term abortion should have ZERO right to an abortion unless there is a possibility of her death. Period. If you want an abortion - it should be limited to a non-viable fetus. The health clause must be made more specific. Mental health? Well being? At 7, 8, or 9 months pregnant. No way. I'm pro choice but, that makes you a baby killer. You can raise your fingers and quote me.

  • Posted By: krohn2 @ 10/22/2008 4:58:19 PM

    FactCheck.Org is owned by the Annenberg group of Chicago! Talk about a conflict of interest! And Obama has been telling people on the trail to check out the site to verify his opponents claims. Funny, every time that he endorsed something, it turns out to be a part of his spin machine! Like he raised objections in the primaries when Indiana required photo I.D. to vote. He Protested that It took away people's right to vote! I
    knew then and there that he was up to no good! America, wake up from the MASS HYPNOSIS!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg&feature=related

  • Posted By: vande.17 @ 10/22/2008 3:14:21 PM


    "You bread hatred, intolerance, envy and you do not even see it, but I know you subconsciously feel it.
    I challenge you all to believe in yourselves, make some sacrifices and work your way to being a host. That is where I am going."

    To the person who wrote this below...........are your comments not full of hate and intolerance?

    I consider myself to be very liberal in my views, but have never asked for a hand out! I worked my way through undergrad and graduate school with no financial or emotional support from anyone; NO FAMILY! I now support myself, my husband and our new baby! I work for the public health service and dedicate myself to the less fortunate everyday! I work for 30-40 thousand dollars less then what I would be paid outside.

    Maybe you should look in the mirror and see you for what you really are..........some one so full of hate that you need to attack others...........me for example..........simply because you feel I do not agree with you! Some one who festers in their own anger and intolerance........sending out negative energy to everyone around you!

    Have you ever considered returning to kindergarden and re-learning the values surrounding tolerance, acceptance and kindness.

    This goes for all of you..........Republican or Democrat...........! Anyone that continues to hate those they don't know......! Anyone who continues to contribute to the ill mental and physical health of all of those in this country and in the world!

  • Posted By: vande.17 @ 10/22/2008 3:06:19 PM

    "You bread hatred, intolerance, envy and you do not even see it, but I know you subconsciously feel it.
    I challenge you all to believe in yourselves, make some sacrifices and work your way to being a host. That is where I am going."

    To the person who wrote this below.............is your statement not full of hatred and intolerance? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror and see you for who you really are!

    I consider myself to be very liberal in my views! I grew up poor...........made many sacrifices and worked my way up little by little! I.paid my way through undergrad and graduate school.... and am now supporting me, my need baby and my husband. I had no financial or emotional support from anyone; no family at all! I currently work for the public health service and dedicate myself to those less fortunate every day.

    What do you do to help yourself and others.............fester in your ill attitude........allow all of your negativity to flow from your veins and direct it at people like me simply because you feel I don't agree with you! Maybe you should go back to elementary school and re-learn the values of patience, kindness and tolerance.

  • Posted By: SOS777 @ 10/22/2008 11:14:03 AM

    McCain Victory is Guaranteed


    If every person that supports Obama would watch a 5 minute video
    I guarantee McCain would win the election in grand fashion
    The link for the video is below. It is hard hitting and I would recommend that you view it in private

    http://www.durarealidad.com/

    Do you have the courage to face and challenge your liberal views? I wonder???

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/22/2008 12:05:43 AM

    Ghostmasseur, yeah, she did...just scroll down further and you will find it on the complete list of posts. I have an idea, let's all pretend God doesn't exist so we can appear more intelligent than our creator!!!

    • Posted By: SOS777 @ 10/22/2008 10:49:12 AM

      You are all a bunch of whiners. You all are looking for something for free - healthcare, wages you did not earn, post secondary education etc.etc. etc. Why don???t you just buck up and achieve something on your own? If you ever do I am sure you will give all of it away because that is just how you are, not. You are selfish and you will give nothing.
      Why can???t you understand that the wealthy already pay more, a lot more!
      In 2008 if you taxable income is $50,000 your tax will be $8,923.75, if taxes were fair someone that makes 10 times that amount i.e. ($500,000) would pay 10 time the tax i.e. ($89,237.50) but when the day is done they will pay $154,073.90 because of the progressive tax structure. Instead of paying 10 times the amount which would be FAIR, they are paying 17.26 times the amount and you still want more. You are lazy and you want the government to help you steal the fruits of others labors.
      Whatever happened to, ???Ask not what your country can do for you ???ask what you can do for your country???? Whatever happened to sacrifice and earning you own way. Why are you so unwilling to believe in yourselves and your country. Why is it always someone else???s fault?
      I sometimes think of Dems as parasites but then I catch myself, parasites are smart enough not to try to kill their host. Let me explain because that may be a little deep. If you???re a parasite and you kill your host you die too. It is not too late???if you work at it a little you can move back up to the level of the wise parasite before you kill you hosts. Heck if you put in a little effort you could actually become a host.
      You Dems are the party of tolerance but you cannot have a thought, utter a word or do a deed that does not reek of intolerance. You incite class, gender and race warfare constantly. It is not supposed to be just about the rich middle class or poor, not just men or woman and not just black or white or red or yellow. It is supposed to be about America.
      Here is a though about you tolerance. Take a look at the two political conventions. The Dems went of pretty smoothly right? There were no freaks who were harvesting urine and fecal matter in order to throw it on your royalty, there was no property damage or assaults caused by violent protestor, there was no need to incarcerate 100s of delinquents. Now let???s talk about how you acted at the Republican convention. Oh, that would be redundant, I just did.
      You bread hatred, intolerance, envy and you do not even see it, but I know you subconsciously feel it.
      I challenge you all to believe in yourselves, make some sacrifices and work your way to being a host. That is where I am going.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/22/2008 8:37:26 AM

      "Ghostmasseur, yeah, she did...just scroll down further and you will find it on the complete list of posts."

      OK. Like I said, I did not go all the way down the list of posts. That does not change the baisc pointof my post. If she said it, then it is her opinion just as your saying that he exists is your opinion.

      "let's all pretend God doesn't exist so we can appear more intelligent than our creator!!!"

      You are making the presumption that god is our creator or that a creator must automtcally be a deity or even still be part of the equation. That is is YOUR opinion and is your pretending that you actually know facts not in scientific evidence. And I am not pretending that god does not exists, I am stating that as my opinion to which there is no irrefutable evidence.

      As I have said in the past, (maybe not on this thread but on others) I have no problem with believers believing in god if said beliefgives them comfort and inspires them to treat their fellow beings and the planet well. I do not think that believers, as a whole, are fools or stupid or deluded. (Now I DO think that creationists who ignore scientific facts and believe this planet is only a little under 7000 years old ARE fools, stupid and deluded, but they are a small miniroty of believers and do not represent the overwhelming majority of believers).

  • Posted By: Hawayana @ 10/17/2008 9:02:30 PM

    Women are the real victim of abortion. I've not met a woman who did not regret her abortion(s). Let's face it, majority of abortion performed is because it's unplanned pregnancy or because the fetus has Downs Syndrome. If a woman doesn't want to give birth then don't have sex! Who gave us the right to murder our not so perfect babies (Downs Syndrome). Should we allow teenage mothers to leave their newborns in the dumpster? We punish these mothers for throwing their newborns in the trash, or for killing their children, so then why do we make it legal for mothers to kill their alive, yet unborn babies? we care so much about animal rights but we don't afford the same kind of justice for the unborn. it's disgusting what kind of society we've become.

    • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/17/2008 9:17:31 PM

      Just not true I know plenty whodon't regret it. I've never met a woman who hasn't said it was the best decision she ever made :)

      • Posted By: ndhousemover @ 10/18/2008 1:22:10 AM

        WOW! Best decisions they ever made. You must hang out with some real deep thinkers there. Tell me, did they spend more time wondering about what they were going to wear to the club after the abortion than they did on the actual abortion? I hope the didn't show up wearing the same skirt that would be tacky.

        • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/18/2008 6:52:21 PM

          Oh I also thinkit's funny you think all girls who have unwanted pregnancies are sl;uts. Obviously you have no clue. Believe it or not many faithful married women simply don't want children or have had so many already they can't afford it. Or some are just teenagers 13 and 14 who were told that condoms don't work and just wanted to feel pretty. you must not be a woman or you must be an ugly one.

          • Posted By: ndhousemover @ 10/18/2008 7:17:12 PM

            AH YES. Hit a nerve there did I? Your faithful married friends ever heard of the pill? Hysterectomy? Vasectomy? Keeping her legs closed? If they are to ignorant or lazy to do any of the above why should the unborn child have to pay. And as far as the 13 and 14 year olds. I think they should get another free pass. To young to understand birth control and yes to young to raise a child but hey lets kill the unborn to wipe the slate clean sounds like you have a great group of friends there. P.S. Say hi to Paris Hilton for me, Thanks.

            • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/19/2008 9:22:43 PM

              Oh yah because you think married people should keep their legs closed? Are you talking about just the women? You must be, because I doubt a woman would say that, again a man probably bitter b/c he could never get laid so has to justify it with abstinance. Takes TWo people moron and men like to talk all high and might about an issue they will never ever ever have to deal with. A hystorectomy! You must be a man, most women would get their tubes tied. A hystorectomy potentially shortens a woman life by decades because of the hormon replacement threrepy. A hystorectomy!!! Hahaha! Yah every woman is running to do that. All these things except a hystorectomy, which would be equivelant to castrating a man, snip snip, are not 100%. The idea that married people shouldn't have sex unless they want to have a baby! The divorce rate would triple! Men are good enough at abandoning women with children. As far a Paris Hilton, you know what you can blme men for that. Maybe you think we should all wear birkahs, eh? Sorry I'm attractive, sorry California has a lot of attractive women. Sorry I have sex with my husband and I don't want babies now! I take birth control and just in case I miss one or two i take the morning after pill, but someday when I'm old and ugly like you I might want a baby because my life will already be over. Children end your life. How do you supose you sort out the ones that should be allowed to have abortions over the ones who's situations you don't believe should be. Don't you think every womenwould just say she was raped? Would she have to prove it? Would their be a trial? Your ridiculous nd don't talk about things you don't know anything about.

              • Posted By: ndhousemover @ 10/21/2008 10:49:01 PM

                I really got your fake double D's in a twist now don't I. I bet it must hurt when you purse your collagen lips together like that. You got me on the whole never getting laid thing. I just hang out in my moms basement playing video games,eating doritos and popping pimples all day long. If only I was a shallow Primmadonna like yourself. You freak out about a hysterectomy and yet you have no qualms about killing an unborn baby. Very compelling. I personally like "when I'm old and ugly like you I might want a baby because my life will already be over. Children end your life." Sounds like somebody has some mommy or daddy issues. Trishalish, I like that name. Do they yell that over the P.A. system when your sliding up and down the pole. I realize that being pregnant could hurt your career being a stripper/pornstar and all, but it is hard to take you serious all covered in glitter and one dollar bills.

        • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/18/2008 6:49:46 PM

          No just people who don't care for the fantasy of religion and aren't brainwashed by outdate ideology. Sorry you don't like it got rub some bengay on it.

        • Posted By: benkrapf @ 10/18/2008 4:09:29 AM

          Nice. Crass.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/18/2008 10:50:35 AM

      Well I know at least 20 women who have no regrets about their abortions. Several were raped, a few were because of failed contraception, others were for health reasons (they did not regret thier decision to abort, they regrettted that the health reason neccessitated their abortions but realized that their health was far more imporatant than a first trimester fetus). Only 2 were due to less than responsible sex.

    • Posted By: hojo81 @ 10/18/2008 10:36:44 AM

      I've talked to a few girls who have had abortions and not one of them doesn't regret it. Come on now.

  • Posted By: ndhousemover @ 10/17/2008 8:55:18 PM

    She has a say. How about the baby? I have yet to hear anybody ask them what they want. Oh that's right they are just lifeless tadpoles that are nothing more than a parasite.

    • Posted By: benkrapf @ 10/18/2008 4:11:21 AM

      Technically, yes. Worms recoil from pain, yet when we step on them we shed no tears. If it took longer for a fetus to look human in ultrasound, say until partway through the third trimester, then this back and forth argument would probably be quite different.

      • Posted By: ndhousemover @ 10/21/2008 10:41:36 PM

        Comparing early human development to worms. Gotta say, that doesn't exactly sell me on the abortion argument. Since when has a worm given their parents a hug. I know there must be worms out there that excell in academics or are looking for the cure for cancer or aids. There must be a worm that someday when he grows up he wants to be president. Try again. I know you are just using the worm as an example, but comparing human life to anything other than a human is simply assanine.

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/21/2008 4:39:40 PM

    I definitely agree that Bush, Cheney, and McCain are in the same ball of wax. It absolutely pisses me off that they blame "liberals" for their own doings...the Republicans have used this strategy for years, and for some reason, enough American people believe their lies and keep voting them in. The kind of economic policies that Republicans love always favors the filthy rich and treats the middle class or poor like crap. How come during this hotly contested election year...when the Democrat side wants to implement an economic plan that will help strengthen the middle class and poor, suddenly the Democrats are portrayed as palling around with terrorists, attempting to ruin our economy, Socialists, unpatriotic, etc. These campaign smears worked in the past, but not this time...the half-truths and lies spit out by the Republican side will not influence intelligent Americans. And just think, according to the Republicans, the filthy rich will somehow be financially ruined if the Democrats are elected into the presidential office...what a load of crap!!! The Bush economic policies have screwed the middle class and poor and have injustly loaded the pockets of the filthy rich. When the wealthy can keep screwing the working class...this seems to satisfy the Republicans. Obama is the only choice for the middle class and poor and the wealthy!!! Obama wants to provide livable wage jobs with affordable health care benifits for the middle class and poor...with Obama's economic plan, this will happen...and the wealthy will not go broke...imagine that!!! But, if we continue with the same economic plan from the past eight years that McCain wants to implement, then the wealthy will continue to get wealthier and the middle class and poor will not earn LIVABLE wages or receive affordable health insurance. Obama gets my vote. Yes, I vote Democrat because I want justice in the workplace...I am also a pro-life Democrat, because I want justice for human babies.

  • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 1:48:49 PM

    paproudmom:

    yea, you forgot the rest of the saying....never argue with a fool, they may be doing the same thing... meaning neither of us are making a difference, we both look like arguing fools, and none of it is solving anything...but, i know im doing my part in the world through volunteer work in hospitals, orphanages, and communities across the world through peacecorp and other organizations...bet you didnt think i was into those kinds of things huh?? im just an ignorant stupid youngster with no real sense of the world....when was the last time you left the country again? or your city? or a 10 mile radius of your home for that matter?? at the very least 5 other countries and call me when you get back, im sure some of your opinions about abortion, laws, and "growing up" you have...

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:27:00 PM

      I assumed you really were an interested person who wanted to have a discussion. Your just another hater. Funny that your attitude does not match what you claim to be.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 2:49:08 PM

        and you know my attitude from a few paragraphs of typing over the internet? you also make some sad assumptions maam. i was being called ignorant, and disrespectful by you before i started ranting about my issues with people like you...and i am interested in an intelligent conversation, always have been...im an extrememly peaceful person but i doesnt mean i will let anyone, my boss, my government, anyone for that matter (god included) tell me what and who i am or what i should be or what i should be doing. you dont know me, i dont know you. thats whats great abotu discussion boards, you could be my coworker and i would never know it, yet i could laugh with and be your best friend....funny thing...

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:12:46 PM

          I went back to look and my post to you. I did not see the word disrespectful, maybe I missed it. The word ignorant was used in reference to a statement not to you personally. Your right I should not make assumptions about people I do not know. Silly me, I actually try to think someone is good unless proven otherwise. You though with your assumptions that I had never been anywhere or done anything, now that was really very arrogant. If you are in the peacecorp why so angry? I don't also believe all young people are stupid. I know quite a few that I really respect. One of which is my daugher who is currently in law school. Again, I'm not sure where this assumption came from. Peace!

          • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 3:29:16 PM

            you mistake my "anger" for passion i think...im passionate about life, living it...im passionate about my freedoms, im passionate about my actions and thoughts. you mistake me for an angry youth by interpreting words on a discussion forum where i cant excert a tone of voice or any kind of speech infliction...you assume im angry by reading some words on a page.... im passionate about making a point, and im passionate to be passionate...and you never answered my question, have you TRAVELED...or been to yuppie tourist traps on vacation? or have you lived, worked, and immersed yourself in the places you see on the discovery channel? it was a question(?), maybe i should sugar coat what i say so i dont sound angry to the masses of intolerable protestants....the world isnt nice, the world isnt happy right now, and honestly i think im one of the few that is pretty pleased with my life because im trying to make a real difference in the world, not just my backyard....just my opinion...call me angry or hateful or disrespectful or ignorant or whatever...you have yours, i have mine...

            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:36:47 PM

              I know passion. You are angry. Good luck with that

              • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 4:19:41 PM

                you dont have a god damn clue lady... go back to church and your white picket fence life and be happy your not living in a gutter...which im sure you very pleased about. your living the american dream...you know that? your a baby boomer with probably a $200,000+ house, 2-3 cars, a good income not including your husbands, and a daughter thats going to law school, living big time off the credit system... other childeren and humans on this planet would literally kill you for what you have...with no remorse or second thought. you are part of something like 3-4% of the worlds population...THE WORLDS POPULATION OF OVER 6 BIIIILLLLLIIIOOON PEOPLE...you are literally a minor fraction of the whole reality the WORLD experiences...

                you know angry?

                i know yuppies

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:02:34 PM

                  Actually we own a business which takes 80 hours a week to run, provide actually well paying jobs with health care for our employees, drive used cars (200l & 2004). We only ever owned one new car - a La Baron. We put ourselves through college, our helping our daughter through school, as well as 2 nieces whose parents could not afford to help them go to school. Your socialist crap is pathetic. Yes we are very lucky to live in this country where hard work matters. So we should feel guility about that. I'm sure the people you talk about in developing countries would love to have that opportunity. So if they did then you could attack them as well. I doubt you have really done anything to help others.

                  • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 5:24:05 PM

                    Actually we own a business which takes 80 hours a week to run, provide actually well paying jobs with health care for our employees, drive used cars (200l & 2004). We only ever owned one new car - a La Baron. We put ourselves through college, our helping our daughter through school, as well as 2 nieces whose parents could not afford to help them go to school. Your socialist crap is pathetic.

                    -sound like your doing very well for yourself....again i say you are part of 3-4% of a population of 6 billion...that is not reality...and it sounds like youve done a whole lot to put money in your pockets...and thats helping others? or is it volunteering at the soup kitchen once a year???

                    -i happen to own my own business as well, a service provider business within the music industry providing artists and consumers with everything from video production to recording and mixing and mastering to printing and advertising at economic prices...and we dont make enough to pay for benefits and insurance...and i still make time to travel and volunteer WHERE IT MATTERS...and guess what, im only 23 yrs old!!! and when i am in town i work full time and have a part time janitorial job ON TOP OF owning and managing a business from the road...and i graduated from college with a degree i music production and business...



                    Yes we are very lucky to live in this country where hard work matters. So we should feel guility about that.

                    -no, never feel guilty, hard work is what made this country, just know your place in the world...and hard work matters in other places too, in fact is vital to survival, just a guess...

                    I'm sure the people you talk about in developing countries would love to have that opportunity. So if they did then you could attack them as well. I doubt you have really done anything to help others.

                    -sorry i dont have time to attack them when im building them a house...

                    • Posted By: markpt @ 10/17/2008 5:35:25 PM

                      WOW, the MUSIC industry!!! You must be so proud to be in such a noble profession. Exactly what value comes from your existance??

                      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/21/2008 3:46:32 PM

                        and who the hell are you? what relevance does your little snippet of sarcasm have to do with anything??? i provide a way for artists to get they're passions heard, i provide youth with a place to go and a place to learn how music is made, i provide people with oppurtinities they would not have without thousands of dollars, im on of the people that help provide you (the consumer) with your next top40 hit you cant stop singing or get out of your head, i provide the only universal language, i provide alot of things, thats only the tip of the ice berg for me...i do alot that im very proud of...

                        and proudmom..

                        i think you completely misunderstand me, you underestimate me, and you undermine my inteligence. we will agree to disagree i suppose. i still think you generally need to wake up, and you will take that offense to that, which was the point...because im so angry at a faceless person i will never see...you mistake me maam...and that is all...

                      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:09:33 PM

                        It is noble.

                        Why don't you explain how art has no value in our society? Please, compare and contrast. I can't wait for your lucid retort.

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:38:41 PM

                      You just don't get it. If we are not financially successful there is no money to help others. By being successful we can. We also help with our time as well. You can attack others all you want it's really helping the world. Enough of this. No I do not feel guilty for having what we have. I feel a responsbility to help others because of what we have and because I enjoy helping people. Sorry your business is not as successful. Hopefully you will do better so that you will have even more to give.

                  • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:32:18 PM

                    So are your ovaries dried up yet? I think the decision of who should or shouldn't have a baby should be left up to people who might actually have to bear the burden of a pregnancy.

    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:25:15 PM

      Actually I go out of the country, and I am in Dc area all the time, as well as many other cities. I have helped with clothing banks, mission work, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, church organizations, and have and do support many causes. Why do you assume that I wouldn't? I actually try to practice what I believe. You seem very angry. I'm not sure why. Sad the assumptions you make.

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 2:30:17 PM

        Well people tend to get a bit angry when views of others are pushed on them. How would you feel if you were pregnant and pro-choicers made you get an abortion? It's kind of the same when you berate people who support a right to choice. I'm not necessarily a supporter of abortion, but I believe women should have the right to choose. I don't think the government should be able to tell women what to do with their bodies, nor do I believe intolerant views should be pushed on me.

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:34:47 PM

          I am just stating my opinion. Just as you are. Could you explain to me when you share your views how that is any different in what I am stating. All of what I am stating is just what I feel like you. Guess I am going by what I was taught. If you give an opinion you should be prepared that others may differ from you. If you don't want to here differing opinions, don't offer yours.

          • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 2:47:41 PM

            I respect differing opinions and welcome them. I always prefer someone to have an opinion on something important rather than the people out there that care more about celebrities. But the difference is that I don't push my opinions into legislation that will decide what someone can and can't do with their own body. You want an abortion? Fine. You want to have the baby? Fine. I have the same feelings on assisted suicide and homosexuality. As long as what you are doing is not hurting someone else then ok. I realize you consider the baby a "someone else" but that is where philosophical debate enters. I believe that an embryo is not a baby--it is an embryo. I do believe that there should be more education and support for a woman to make a fully informed decision, but ultimately it is a woman's decision--hers alone to make and deal with the consequences. The government, made mostly of white males, should have no say. None.

            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:02:15 PM

              Excuse me but when did I push any legislation through that would limit you are anyone else?

              • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:26:30 PM

                You are being way too literal because you know I am right. YOU didn't personally push legislation through, but others that believe what you believe are certainly trying to create a movement that will. By supporting something, you effectively push it through. By voting for a President, you are effectively pushing certain laws through. Does that mean that you personally are signing the bill? No, of course not. But you have a hand in it.

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:34:28 PM

                  And your vote will not push what you believe in? This is unreal. But now that I know your age I understand more the level I'm dealing with.

                  • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:54:06 PM

                    No, voting for my candidate will not push issues on you. It will do the opposite, in fact, so I'm not sure what your argument is here. I'm also quite disappointed that you think a 26 year old isn't capable of having valid, well-thought opinions and arguments. Tell that to your daughter in law school. Do you think because of her age that her opinions and views don't matter? My husband and I are both quite educated and provide much support to our community organizations; many of our city's leaders would disagree with you. My generation, and your daughter's, is who will drive this country. I'm proud of my views. They are compassionate, well researched, and informed. Walk in someone else's shoes before you cast stones. Abortion isn't an easy thing for anyone, and if I err more on the side of compassion for women then so be it.

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:29:53 PM

                      You seem to think nothing of voting to push through legislation that many Americans find to be immoral. You don't mind imposing your views on others. Actually voting for people who will use tax dollars to support programs that others are morally against. You don't seem to think that is forcing you views on others?

                      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:46:47 PM

                        It's called a democracy (or republic, depending on definition).

                        Cool. I hate war. I don't want my tax dollars to go to war. Lets have a la carte government spending. That's a great idea. I can say what my dollars go to. No more funding war.

                        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/18/2008 6:48:49 AM

                          Again with your usual brilliance you totally miss the point.

                    • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:21:59 PM

                      At 26 I held many of your views. I can actually have an intelligent conversation with my daughter. She is not so defensive and she does not make such asssumptions. She's very bright. We enjoy talking and have a pretty great relationship. She also thinks I'm pretty cool.

                      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:48:32 PM

                        There's no evidence of people's pro-choice views changing to anti-choice as they get older. It may happen in a few cases, but I know of many more cases of the opposite. I know of a lot of people that naively believed in anti-choice and then came to their senses as they got older and wiser.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 3:10:58 PM

        maybe i seem angry because you assume im angry at you....dont make assumptions then...

        well im glad youve at least been out of the country but have you really TRAVELED is the right question...have you been to tourist traps or have you been immersed in another culture or in a 3rd world country? in a jungle? in the middle east? in africa? seen the other side of the tracks FOR REAL...ever seen real people suffering from lepersy?? a colony of childeren aflicted with AIDS? people and childeren suffering malnutrition, or being displaced by war??? this is reality, that is suffering and life...abortion is the least of the worlds problems, get real and get over it...

        • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:19:20 PM

          Wrong again. I don't assume your angry at me at all. You seem like an angry person in general. Very negative. No I have not been to all of those places, but I usually avoid the normal tourist traps. I have seen poverty in Appalchia and on Indian Reservations and I hurt for those people and other people around the world. You assume that I just think of abortion. The reason we were discussing this is because we are on a blog about abortion. If I am on a blog about poverty I'll talk about that! I don't know with your attitude how helpful you can be to anyone. Just a guess. You are right I don't know you.

          • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 10/17/2008 4:00:24 PM

            now your judging my work? how dare you..."i dont know how you would be of any help..." blah blah blah.... yea you dont know me, i hope you never do. and im not angry, just a fact. i hope you never come to know me because you would feel like an idiot comparing what youve said based on my writing to who i really am. i may be forward, unabiding, and honest with what i say, but angry i am not...

            and hello, poverty and abortion are pretty related...sooo yea, its a valid topic in this forum, at least i think so. those countries dont have abortion clinics and look where they are...over population, scarce food and resources...shanty towns and cities...again you think im negative, im talking negative because there is alot of negative bad things happening right now in the world and in your backyard...im talking negative because people like you will sit at your computer and talk about change and i beleive this and i beleive that. then as soon as your computer turns off its back to the same ole grind... nothing changes...

            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:03:59 PM

              You are a horrible representative of the peacecorp. I don't believe a word you say. You are a poser.

              • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:11:14 PM

                Someone who is 49 should not be allowed to use the word "poser". It's time to put away that phrase along with the miniskirts you used to look good in.

                • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/18/2008 6:47:17 AM

                  Speak for yourself I still have great legs.

            • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:16:57 PM

              The more I think about it you are nothing like the people I know who actually do go help those in developing countries. They are very loving, compassionate people. You sound like an angry socialist. But we will have to just disagree. I really don't have anymore time for this. I'm heading back to my mansion with all my servants lol.

              • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:44:48 PM

                It's funny that those crying "socialist" never seem to know what a socialist is. Hence, they use the label incorrectly. They should inform themselves, if they want to be taken seriously. Certainly, someone how has reached 49, their twilight years, should be better informed.

        • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:43:27 PM

          Agreed. Abortion comes up time and time again in elections, just so the right wingers can rally support for their candidate. Abortion is the least of our worries. We desperately need health care, education, and financial reform. I care much more about what bankers are doing with our money than what the girl down the street is doing with her body. Abortion doesn't affect my success, happiness, or future. Health care, welfare, Wall Street, crumbling infrastructure, wars, etc do.

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 2:49:02 PM

      The younger generation is more progressive than ones before us. Times are changing, as the old saying goes, and they will eventually have to deal with it.

      • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 2:59:39 PM

        I am only 49 hardly elderly. How absurd!

        • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:23:30 PM

          I never said you were elderly. In fact, I didn't even reference you. But yes, you are of the older generation. You are of the generation that grew up during race riots and women becoming a part of the workforce and being seen as more than just a womb with legs. I'm 26. I'm from the generation that doesn't see race quite as much as yours, where working women are common, where we believe in gay rights, etc. That is the younger generation and yes, I believe we are more tolerant for the most part.

          • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/17/2008 4:02:49 PM

            Summer, I think you are wrong about that.

            I am 49. I grew up in a racially and religiously diverse area where many women worked, and had professional degrees.

            My parents had gay and lesbian friends who were always welcome in our home (and if they had partners their partners were welcome as well and were treatead as spouses if that was how the relationship was.) My parents actually ended friendships with people who suddenly revealed racist and bigotted tendencies.

            I had friends who had brothers and sisters that served in Vietnam, and those that had brothers and sisters who protested Vietnam. I knew parents who were career military officers who defended their children's rights to both be anti-war and protest the war (as they said, one of the main things they fought and served for was the right of people to disagree with their government and to peacably protest.)

            As my father who served in WWII said, dissent can often be the ultimate form of patriotism, (which he got from reading Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, two of our founding fathers)

            My point is that the many of the people I know of my generation (those born from 1946 -1960) are very progressive and some of us actually taught your generation how to be so. We both learned from and partcipated in the civil rights movement, women's rights movement, and the gay rights movement (even when we were male, white, and straight [as I am]).

            In reality your generation is no more progressive than mine. You are just growing up with some different issues as well as some of the same ones.

            • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 4:12:11 PM

              I stand by my opinion. I think that you were very fortunate to have such open, intelligent parents, but that was not the norm back then. Nor is it the norm today--just look at gay rights (or lack thereof) for your answer. Hopefully it will be the norm in the future.

              • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:06:54 PM

                Since you did not grow up in our era. how do you know what was the norm. Much of what you talk about is not new.

                • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:28:47 PM

                  History books. Look into it.

                  • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:33:45 PM

                    Actually I read history books since probably about the age of 8. I doubt very much that someone 26 years old would have gotten much on 1970 in their history books. But I'm sure reading a paragraph or two in a book would be much more helpful to assist a person in understanding what life was like then actually experiencing it!

                    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:05:16 PM

                      You couldn't read till 8? Late bloomer eh?

                      • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/18/2008 6:35:50 AM

                        Actually I see you have not learned to read yet. Someone reading textbooks at age 8 is not a beginning reader. By 7th grade I was reading on the college level. Your comments make you look like someone who never got past the pre-school level. You replace intelligence with sarcasm.

              • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/17/2008 5:35:53 PM

                "I stand by my opinion. I think that you were very fortunate to have such open, intelligent parents, but that was not the norm back then. Nor is it the norm today--just look at gay rights (or lack thereof) for your answer. Hopefully it will be the norm in the future."

                Actually a lot of the parents of my peers were that way.

                It is the small groups that start things that result in advancements in society. Civil Rights Gay Rights, Women's Rights, Disabled Rights, the rights of minority groups and religions. All of these things needed a small dedicated group (sometimes no even organized or communicating with each otehr) to secure equal rights. Groups of people who said that the older fundamentalist ways are not helpful or needed by everyone and should not be allowed to make laws. All of this took small groups of dedicated patriots. Hopefully your generation will keep up the work that those who came before you started and pass it to the generations that follow you.

          • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:30:21 PM

            Actually my mother worked and was a professional so I grew up seeing that. I went to college and probably stood up for things you now take for granted. Progressive is not always an improvement, in some cases yes, and in others no. For instance respect for others never goes out of style. I still am able to learn from people with more experience to me. You have a lot to learn. I have a daughter who is 23 and seems so much more mature in her opinions then some in your generation. She still, while being contemporary, respects others and those who have experienced more than her. She is progressive but moral as well.

            • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:39:10 PM

              I'm not personally attacking you so I'm sorry you are interpreting it that way. I have shown respect for your opinions, I have just disagreed with them. My opinion is that my generation is more tolerant, which I think many would agree with, and I'm proud of us for that. We certainly do have a lot to learn, I agree, but you know what? You could learn a lot from us, too. Older doesn't always mean wiser.
              My point is that things that were once major issues don't seem to be that way anymore. Your daughter and I were born after Roe v Wade. Therefore, we're used to abortion being legal. I don't think our generation is going to change that but hopefully will shift focus to preventing pregnancies so that abortion isn't an issue anymore. I stand for women's rights. That includes the right to terminate a pregnancy. I do not stand for government, or anyone else, telling me what I can and can't do with my own body.

              • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 3:45:49 PM

                I actually do learn from younger people. I love to learn period. I was only 14 when Roe vs Wade was decided. So actually I grew up under that decision as well. I remember being pro-choice when I was your age. My opinions have developed over the years. Who knows maybe yours could to?

                • Posted By: summer4077 @ 10/17/2008 3:58:06 PM

                  My opinions will certainly change on some things. I don't think they will change on not wanting the government to be in control of my body.

                  • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:18:24 PM

                    At your age I didn't think so either.

                    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:42:31 PM

                      And then you hit menopause and those hormones got all out of whack.

                      • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:46:20 PM

                        Don't really have a problem with that. I guess you read about that in a book. But if you need you might read that symptoms vary greatly. If you actually knew what you were talking about.

                        • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:07:48 PM

                          I do, and I'm not a young chicken. You are assuming and we know what that makes us.

                • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 5:30:36 PM

                  Pro-life is the naive view. I used to be "pro-life",and then I grew up and learned about the world. I learned that the people behind the "pro-life" movement were really control freaks, not concerned citizens.

                  I lost my naivete. Hopefully, it's not too late for you.

                  • Posted By: paproudmom @ 10/17/2008 5:43:02 PM

                    I think you are the one with the limited point of view. Good luck with that!

                    • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 10/17/2008 6:06:52 PM

                      How so? Please elaborate.

                      I love drive by insults by the Cons. They think they can just say, "you are dumb" and that suffices as proper critique. It doesn't. Take some advice and learn your subject matter and debate properly. Otherwise you just look foolish.

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/20/2008 5:09:49 PM

    I disagree with a lot of McCain's policies. But nobody has the right to put him down for serving to protect our freedom. Do any of you know why Senator McCain can lift his one arm only so high up? It is because he stood for what was right. When he was a P.O.W. in 'Nam, he was offered preferential treatment by the Vietnamese military because McCain was the son of a military officer...John McCain REFUSED preferential treatment because he told them that if his other fellow P.O.W.'S were not getting preferential treatment, then he did not want it, either. So, the North Vietnamese military tortured McCain and broke every bone in his body because he stood for what was right...this is why he can't lift one arm properly. He is more of a man than I could ever imagine to be.

    • Posted By: neppy @ 10/21/2008 6:30:21 AM

      McCain didn't want to make his daddy look bad on the international stage. And since when does taking a beating make one a suitable candidte for president? This is part of the reason they won't release his records, because of the lingering mental afflictions from his long days as POW. Maybe Mike Tyson should run if taking blows is a good reason?

      • Posted By: indystacey @ 10/21/2008 12:36:31 PM

        Qidisrupt , actually McCain can't lift his arm due to injuries he suffered in the plane crash prior to his capture. Certainly, lack of medical treatment did not help. I respect his service, but what he suffered was much less than what other POW's suffered. His captors learned he was the son of an admiral and treated him BETTER than the other prisoners. How did they learn of this? FROM McCAIN.

    • Posted By: Trishalish @ 10/20/2008 10:44:09 PM

      Kerry sevved this country... did you vote for him?

  • Posted By: Nins @ 10/21/2008 11:32:48 AM

    After 9/11, the US government started rounding up Muslims without cause and without due process of law, like we did to the Japanese Americans in WWII. The Bush administration called it's main internment camp Guantanamo Bay. While there are certainly many guilty terrorists held in Guantanamo, there are also many innocent American citizens who have been held illegally for years without even being charged with any crime. They have been tortured by our government. Some of them have died.

    Recently the Supreme Court ruled against the Bush administration in the matter of Guantanamo Bay. The Supreme Court Justices were NOT on the side of the terrorists. They were on the side of the Geneva Convention, that says you can not torture POWs, and on the side of US laws that state you can not imprison a person without charging them with a crime and bringing them to trial. I'm sure that like most Americans, the Justices who voted against the illegal, immoral doings at Guantanamo didn't feel sympathy for the terrorists. They felt sympathy for the laws of AMERICA, the land of the FREE, where even rat finks get a fair trial.

    Meanwhile, back in Iraq, the Bush administration is busy trying to build a smokescreen to hide the CRIMES they have committed. Those pesky weapons of mass destruction. Just think, the National Debt went up over 6 trillion dollars under Bush. More than 2 TRILLION of it went directly into the pockets of Halliburton, a corporation owned by the Cheney family. Halliburton is now a DUBAI corporation and therefore is not subject to US taxes. All that money they took out of the US Treasury is going into the coffers of a MUSLIM country.

    Did you hear about how the US government is being charged millions for Halliburton deliveries of sand into Iraq from Kuwait? Sand. Like there is a shortage of sand in Iraq? Another contractor shipped sand from Idaho to Iraq at our expense. Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz discusses these and other excesses of our current government's out of control spending in Iraq.

    Your grandchildren will be working like slaves to pay off this debt, so that the Bushes and Cheneys can live the high life in Dubai.

    Yeah, they're patriots, Bush&Co. They wear flag pins. And hide the money they stole from America in Dubai.

    And they want me to believe that Obama is a socialist. Right.

    In case you think McCain is any different than Bush, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w

  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 10/21/2008 1:01:00 AM

    Trishalish...You have just told everyone posting a lie that God is a lie. And yes, all of us will face death and then either Heaven or Hell. There are many of us God believers in the world and it is not because we are dragged around by a leash...Jesus does give every human being the right to either choose to believe in Him or choose not to believe in Him. So once again, you lied to everyone that has posted that we do not have a choice. Oh, by the way, I am not a political leader and I do not desire to control anyone. Nice try, Trishalish, on the "scare tactic" approach...and by the way, ignoring God won't make Him go away. Did you ever consider that you could be lying to yourself?

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/21/2008 10:44:10 AM

      Qidisrupt

      "Trishalish...You have just told everyone posting a lie that God is a lie. And yes, all of us will face death and then either Heaven or Hell. "

      I did not see her say that God is a lie, but I did not read the entire thread. But if she said that God does not exist, that ia not a lie, it is her opinion just as saying that God exists is your opinion, jsut as it is only your opinion that everyone wil face some places called Heaven or Hell. Again opinion and not fact. Since I reject the idea of God, Heaven and Hell, they have no power over me and are of no importance to me. If you do believe in them that is your right, but it is not your rght to try to make US law based on them or, more specifically on your interpretation of what you think that your God wants. That would be establishing religion and that is against he US Constitution.

      "and by the way, ignoring God won't make Him go away."
      Just as beleiving in him des not make him real or come to you, except in yoru own mind (whichg is where he was created in the first palce).


  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/18/2008 11:11:10 AM

    Ya'll call abortion a womans "CHOICE". We'll I have a few questions...

    Is there ever a time that the unborn gains human rights??

    Why does cutting an umbilical cord make a fetus a person??

    Does the father have a say in the matter?...If not why?....the child is also his...RIGHT???

    What if the father WANTED the baby aborted....should he still be financially obligated...for child support.... if the woman said no to an abortion???

    If a pregnant woman is the victim of violence...and her unborn dies as a result...should the perpetrator be charged with manslaughter/murder????

    NOBAMA!!!

    • Posted By: neppy @ 10/21/2008 6:54:08 AM

      Yes, Holy roller,
      Breath equals life. Even in that book it is called the breth of the spirit. Breathing on ones own is aknowledged. As far as a man's 'rights' this is always going to be an area where a womans needs and wants trump a mans because of biology. Plain and simple. If a man really feels that strongly, he should be sure to be married, have had a serious conversation with his partner or use double protection.

      My own concern is that every child is wanted and has the best chances, every woman is informed and thoughtful and as a society, a government we do what we can to decrease the number of abortions, Not by making it illegal or so restricted but as a matter of education and better choices pre conception. I am adopted but do not expect that to be forced on any woman eother, I am genuinly against it.
      I do not share any mainstream religious, biblical convictions on this, and do not expect those who do to expect everyone else to do so. We are a melting pot in every way.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 10/18/2008 12:26:14 PM

      Also, here's a counterpart set of questions to you:

      Sperm and eggs are also alive, biologically. What makes a fertilized egg significantly different from the sperm and egg that produced it? Why is it not a great tragedy that millions of sperm and dozens of eggs die within the first ten years of a human's adult life? Is it the potential of the fertilized egg to grow into a human being? If so, then what about a man who masturbates? He has removed the potential of any of those sperm to grow into a human being - should he be charged with a crime?

      What about birth control? Since it prevents conception, should those who use it be charged with a crime as well?

      • Posted By: Nins @ 10/18/2008 12:43:07 PM

        Seventy five percent of American Catholics actively practice birth control, despite what the Church teaches. This does not make them bad Catholics. It makes them good Catholics who disagree with the Church on this issue.

        I would think that most of the pro-lifers on this blog have practiced birth control at some point in their life. And yes, if you follow the logic to the source like you have done, Vigil, this makes them just as guilty of killing babies as a woman who has had multiple abortions.

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/18/2008 1:54:48 PM

          ninny....where did I mention Birth Control???....You are weak...confused...and a LIAR!!!

          NOBAMA!!!

          • Posted By: Nins @ 10/18/2008 3:02:41 PM

            Actually, Holy Roller, it was Vigil who mentioned birth control, and my comment was not only appended to his blog, I used his name in it. I was not addressing you. Why do you think that everything I say is about you?

            As for your need to spread hatred and call other people names, I really wish that you could treat other bloggers with respect. It would give you a sense of dignity.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/18/2008 1:53:18 PM

        HUH???...Virgil...with all our disagreements, I have still...respected your intellect....

        Shows my judgement is sometimes quite flawed....that comment was lame and DUMB....

        Heavy on the Kool-Aide today???

        Allah Akbar Comrades...

        NOBAMA!!!

        • Posted By: TheVigil @ 10/18/2008 2:59:48 PM

          You have to actually explain why you think it's stupid. You can't win an argument with "you're stupid", unless you still argue the same way we all did in grade school.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 10/18/2008 12:06:11 PM

      I'll take a stab at this, just so you know there are some pro-choice people who've put some time and thought into their beliefs.

      "Is there ever a time that the unborn gains human rights??"

      I think this is a loaded question. To me, no, I do not believe that an unborn human being should be treated legally as a human being until after birth. The unborn have different physical needs and capabilities than the born do. If what you mean to say is "is there ever a time that the unborn gain *legal* rights", yes, I do believe some legal rights accrue to the unborn at conception, and that others should accrue after the first trimester of development. I think that the unborn should gain legal protections from entities *other* than the mother and father at conception, and gain the right to be guaranteed the chance at a full term after the third trimester. I do not, however, think that ending a fetus' existence should be placed in the same category as "murder".

      "Why does cutting an umbilical cord make a fetus a person??"

      It doesn't. It's a broad spectrum and it's hard to pinpoint any one place that "life begins", in my opinion. You have to make a legal distinction somewhere. The cutting of an umbilical cord *does* change the fetus in that it no longer receives *direct* sustenance from the mother and must begin to be fed externally, and that change in physical status makes it a good place to assign a different set of legal rights.

      "Does the father have a say in the matter?...If not why?....the child is also his...RIGHT???"

      I completely agree that he should.

      "What if the father WANTED the baby aborted....should he still be financially obligated...for child support.... if the woman said no to an abortion???"

      Yes. The baby is alive, and it needs food and shelter to live which it is utterly incapable of providing itself. Whether or not the father wanted the pregnancy terminated, it has been carried to term at this point and he can no longer escape the responsibility to help care for the baby.

      "If a pregnant woman is the victim of violence...and her unborn dies as a result...should the perpetrator be charged with manslaughter/murder????"

      I think the perpetrator should be charged with something, but not manslaughter/murder. I do not support categorizing a fetus as a human being, as I've said before. What I don't believe is that the perpetrator should get off lightly or easily in this case. Quite honestly, the mother and father are intimately connected to the potential future existence of the baby in a way that no one else is, and I do believe this gives them the right to choose whether or not to carry the baby to term, during the first trimester. But I do agree that someone who kills a pregnant mother should be charged with a greater crime than one who kills a woman who isn't pregnant.

      And with this statement I open myself up to the screaming hatred and attacks

      • Posted By: zillamutt @ 10/18/2008 2:29:06 PM

        Obviously you haven't put thought into these answers because the questions suck.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 10/18/2008 2:04:07 PM

        Virgil...I'll give you credit...you answered some tough questions...I firmly disagree with you, but that is what America is about...at least I didn't call you RACIST.....I truly think you are confused...You HATE Bush, and are willing to throw away ...all that makes America...well...America...to make a point....Don't be dumb.

        I DID NOT EVER vote for a Bush...I despise them....I however would NEVER vote for a left wing, mohammed who despises our nation either....Hussein does......

        John McCain LOVES this nation....he has shed blood and tears for us....Hussein is a CROOK and a FRAUD.....

        In the unlikely event Hussein becomes POTUS...HolyRoller and family will...Lower our Flag to half-staff for a week...and investigate the immigration policies of New Zealand.....I will come home...when the Revolution begins....

        A mohammed in the White House??? GOD forbid...and He has...

        NOBAMA!!!

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 10/18/2008 12:09:03 PM

        The boards cut off my post.

        Should have been "screaming attacks of those who consider me a murderer by proxy. Comments are welcome."

        • Posted By: Nins @ 10/18/2008 12:38:28 PM

          Vigil, my comment is that you are one of the few people on this blog who actually tries to impartially think all the way through to the end of these important questions. You don't come up strongly on one side or the other, but point out inconsistencies in the arguments of both sides. If only we could clone you ;-)

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