'Health' of the Mother

To anyone supporting a Biblically based set of laws around this...

We have a First Amendment Establishment Clause in this country that prohibits religiously-based legislation. You can either choose to support your Constitution or your religion here, but not both.

I tend to get a lot of dead silence when I bring this up to the Christian pro-life contingent.

I would like to hear whether or not Christian pro-life voters believe their pro-life stances (if they are based on a "because God says it is immoral" argument) violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. If so, what makes the Bible more important than the Constitution in this case? Do you support the repeal of the Establishment Clause? If not, what gives this issue a legal exemption and what prevents that exemption from being used to challenge secular law across the board? If you do support the Establishment Clause, how do you reconcile this with your desire to make a religiously based law?

I'm eager and curious to see the responses.

In the third presidential debate Senator Obama made the claim that he would ban Partial Birth abortions if protection was given with regards to the health of the mother. This is an empty argument since the baby is killed after it has been 90% delivered and only its head is still in the womb. The mother's health is not in jeopardy for that last second it takes to deliver the baby. He is just being dishonest. Take a look at this video which goes into detail of this hideous procedure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5qu87aXc20

What happened to America, separation of church and state? How about the constitution? I am constantly amazed how people rationalize to themselves that there way is the right way and everyone else is wrong and yet still claim they are preserving the constitution and the foundations of this country. Laws were designed to protect people and individual rights. Laws in this country were not written to protect one way of thinking. Abortion is not the issue!! If you think abortion is wrong then DONT HAVE ONE it???s your CHOICE. But what gives you or me the right to tell some what they HAVE to do with there body. Let???s flip the scenario. If you were going to die from child birth and the state made you abort your child because letting you kill yourself was illegal and you would rather die than abort, how would you feel? If I have cancer are you going to tell me I have to undergo treatment? No.... So take a step back and think Just because you don???t agree for religious reasons you cant outlaw some one else from doing it. I don???t like abortion one bit but I would NEVER tell you what you could and could not do with your body because I don???t agree with it. Your rights are just as sacred as mine. Get over it and move on or get out of the US you are not really an American.

I have three children and had to abort one. My life was on the line. I was told if I carried the baby to term, I could possibly have a stroke or heart attack. I chose to abort. I do not regret it. If I had carried the baby to term and died my children and husband would be left without a Mother and wife. I was 5 months pregnant, and had been in the hospital for 20 days. It was the hardest thing to do, but my family sat down with our doctor and made a private life saving choice. John McCain is wrong on this matter.

I've got the Solution......IF YOU THINK ABORTION IS WRONG...THEN """"DON'T HAVE ANY"""!!!!! If you think your soul is safe from "god" then have all the abortions your conscience can handle. PROBLEM SOLVED !!!

that`s why the USA economic syustem STINKS because of the PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT and that`s
the USA ECONOMIC system is being PUNISHED for this mistake by the HOLY TRINTY , FATHER
SON AND HOLY SPIRIT and US pro abortion is to blame for it !

King David was guilty of adultery and murder, yet according to the Bible...he was a man "after God's own heart." Can anyone remember the woman who was caught by the angry mob in the act of adultery? Jesus told the mob that if anyone is without sin, let him cast the first stone...the angry dropped their stones and left. Jesus spoke to the woman one on one and forgave her. So cut out the self-righteous rants and express your personal convictions and explain why. There is no need to judge.

I think it's highly ironic, as well as insulting, that the ones who seem to be protesting the loudest over a woman's ABSOLUTE RIGHT to choose are men! No MAN has the right to tell me, my daughter, or any other WOMAN what she can and cannot do regarding HER BODY. We are NOT CHATTEL OR PROPERTY. No MAN has that right. It IS my CHOICE and the CHOICE of every woman alive.

Now, having said that, I don't necessarily like abortion. To me, it is the absolute last resort. However, I would much rather have it LEGAL AND CHOICE than have women going to backrooms. Whether you like it or not, abortion has been around since the dawn of time. Study your ancient history and you'll find that even the ancient Egyptians practiced it, as well as various methods of birth control (i.e. crocodile dung - yuck!). In addition, to deny abortions to victims of rape and incest is not only stupid, it's ABSOLUTELY STUPID. MEN do NOT have that right!

I am curious, how many "pro-life" individuals have ever read Roe v. Wade. The decision was based upon Griswold (check the spelling, I am sorry I do not have my con-law book handy) v. Connecticut. In this decision, the state banned birth control except for married couples. Is this the type of society we want to live in? I know many persons believe life begins at conception. Fine. What do we do then about rape? Is there and exception? I am the proud father of 2 daughters. I hope there is and I pray to God it is never, ever necessary. But what if it is? Obviously, the trial of the alleged rapist will occur many months after the abortion. If the alleged rapist is found not guitly, do we bring murder charges against the woman? So the answer is, there should not be an exception for rape. Please tell that to the woman. Unfortunately, God did not give us all of the answers. I know, I know someone will start quoting the Bible. Please spare me and show me the passage involving abortion and rape. So please stop the name calling and alleging that a woman who is 8 1/2 months pregnant decides to terminate a pregancy because of a hang nail and the doctor who is trained to save lives is so desperate for money, he performs an abortion. You may believe this, but you will find out in November, you are in the minority.

What strikes me as incongrous is that the same people who are screaming about soldiers being in danger of getting killed doing a job for which they volunteered are the same people who want to kill the children that did not have anything to do with their conception.

How many people actually read this in the article??

"According to Centers for Disease Control statistics, only 1.4 percent of abortions took place after 21 weeks in 2004, the latest year for which data are available."

The fact of the matter is that it is estimated that over 95% of the abortions performed are NOT because of cases of rape, incest, or danger to the health of the mother. It's being used as birth control.

Traditional birth control methods aren't foolproof, of course, but they have a high success rate when used appropriately. THAT is a choice.

Or choosing not to have sex with someone if you're not prepared for the consequence of having a child... THAT is a choice.

Not getting drunk and falling into bed with someone you hardly know... THAT is a choice.

The idea that pro-lifers are anti-choice is ridiculous. But must one of the choices have to be the death of a baby?

Many pro-lifers believe as they do about abortion not based on "wanting women to be traumatized," but on the value GOD places on human life. His creation. To say that pro-lifers are brutal or cruel is a strange rationalization when they are trying to save the lives of truly innocent people!

I am a woman of child-bearing years. Even so, I do NOT believe I should have the right to kill another human being just for convenience. Does any man have that right? Yes, it affects my body, but if I made one of the poor choices listed earlier, then it would be a natural consequence that I COULD live with! I don't believe I have ever met a woman who has wished she had aborted her child. Every one of them admits it was hard, at times, but they wouldn't change a thing.

When are we, as a people, going to start valuing LIFE again, over convenience?

I repeat, from the article: According to Centers for Disease Control statistics, only 1.4 percent of abortions took place after 21 weeks in 2004, the latest year for which data are available.

Health of the mother is NOT the reason the abortion debate is so hot. It's because women (and men!!) want the convenience of getting rid of a child that would be a drain on their precious time and finances, in order to continue their lives with as little responsibility as possible. That's the sad fact.

If you are calling me a Nazi I find that very off base and quite honestly disrespectful to me. I'm not at all sure where you are coming from to be honest. I'm guessing it is because I stated that Biden has to look past his personal opinion and think of entire country. Not sure where Nazi's comes in ???? Sounds to me like you are stretching to make your point and are quite possibly a bitter person. I read your response to disciplineisfreedome and I want to say that I am very sorry for your friend and the loss of your friend. It is true that there is more support needed for women/families who choose abortion whether it is early on it he pregnancy for whatever reason or later on for health reasons. I doubt that people make the decision lightly or find it easy to cope afterwards. Who is to say though that for ever woman not having an abortion is the best case? Having abortion is defnitely not for every woman either but banning it all together would not stop abortion it would just make the practice worse. Once again sorry about your friend- I can tell you are very hurt and bitter about it-perhaps you should seek someone to talk about this with and work through your grief.

If the woman did not want to have a baby then she should CHOOSE to not have sex. That unborn baby did not CHOOSE to be conceived nor are they given the CHOICE to live. If you are going to have sex then that should mean you are adult enough and responsible enough to deal with the consequences of that act. Wake up America...Save the trees??? And kill our children??? No wonder our country is going to Hell in a handbasket...we might as well be handing the Devil our souls on a platter. THOU SHALT NOT MURDER...Remember that? God has been the cornerstone of our country since long before our constitution was drafted and it is interesting to me how as we turn our faces from HIM, His face turns away from us. God won't push in where he isn't wanted...but don't blame Him when this country falls apart. We are the ones who have run away...but He will be there to catch us when we realize we can't do it alone. He is faithful. GOD BLESS AMERICA...and God forgive us for sacrificing whole generations on the altars of greed and selfishness...

I find it very curious that people who are such staunch pro-lifers who have such strong opinons about abortion at even the earliest of stages, never give a rats ass about animal rights. Most prolifers will expend tremendous amounts of energy in hatred and action towards anything antiabortion to save even the smallest mass of human cells but wouldn't lift a finger to stand up for animals who suffer daily in unimaginable ways.

Abortion is a very hot topic and is bitterly held as a pinacle to the womens rights movement. It is not fair that men can sleep around and women cannot or at least not without the consequence of "baggage" for the rest of her life. Abortion is the great equalizer and the solution to sex/life without consequence.

If abortion were really for the health of a mother then what is a C-Section for? Abortion is only for the unwanted children. What situation could you ever run into that an abortion would have to be performed instead of a C-section?

Are any of you actually serious? If you are pro-life, then you will never ever have to worry that you or your daughters will have an abortion, because that is where you stand- and I am sure that you have taught them that Abortion is not something that you beleive in. For the peiople that may need or use it as an option, who gives you the right to tell them they can't? Simply said, It is a decision that a Woman and her Doctor make. Pro-Choice believers aren't taking pregnant women into back alleys and forcing them into abortions, so pro-lifers need to sit back, not take away the constitutioanl rights of others, and if you believe that they are all going to hell, get over it. The reason anyone has the right to sit here and write your opinions is because of the right to free speech. If you have a problem with the rights of Women, then move to somewhere that doesn't give them any. You may find, however, that your right to free speech has been taken away too....

To Luridmoon:
Obviously you are not Christian. If you were you would know that God does form us in the womb and that he did intend for everyone to be "beautiful & perfect". We screwed that up ourselves when Adam & Eve sinned for the first time in the Garden. All of the "natural calamities", as you put it, are our own fault. We have no one to blame but our own sinful nature and satan. God does not cause these things but He does allow them to happen just like He allows us to have free will. Before you start criticizing God, I recommend you get a bible and read it in it's entirety. Then maybe you will have a clue what you are talking about.

I really must go, but one final thought. When it comes time to meet my maker, and He says I did not make the grade because I supported my wife's decision to terminate her pregnancy we both cherished with all of our heart due to a serious, and I mean serious threat to her health, I will not be afraid for one instant. You see, I will not know anyone there anyway.