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  • Posted By: dcg681 @ 10/23/2008 10:35:07 PM

    Dear thundercycle,
    Your post is quite silly. Obama a "moderate"? Yeah, right! Obama "intersted in working to reduce teenage pregnancy ... which would reduce abortion"? If so, he has a strange way of showing it: He has promised that his first act as president would be to sign into law the "Freedom of Choice Act," which would overturn practically EVERY piece of pro-life legislation in all 50 states, wipe out even the most minor restrictions on abortion, overturn parental-notification laws and partial-birth abortion bans voted in by the people, take away "conscience clauses" that permit pro-life doctors to opt-out of personally performing abortions, and force Americans to fund abortion through their federal tax dollars. How, I ask, does a person reduce the frequency of something by removing all restrictions placed on it and increasing funding for it? Are you making a serious argument or is your comment a brilliant parody of the sort of illogic that so many Obama apologists are spreading this election cycle?

  • Posted By: thundercycle @ 10/23/2008 7:33:43 PM

    This like other attempts to paint Obama as a "radical" of any kind are silly.
    Moderates won the endorsements this year on both sides.
    The reason is the rejection of the culture war by most Americans.
    The abortion debate is part of that culture war.
    Obama is interested in working to reduce teenage pregnancy...which would reduce abortion.

    Overturning Roe v Wade will just make abortions only affordable to the wealthy knocked-up, while the rest of the country turns to shady doctors and coathangers. You cannot legislate these problems away, you have to change the underlying societal causes with the love taught by Christ.

    But it's easier for most Catholics to cast their vote based on the culture war, than to look towards actually remedying the problem. As long as your conscience is cleared by voting on this issue and this issue alone, you won't have to make the more difficult responsible decision of who best represents overall the teachings of the New Testament.

  • Posted By: thundercycle @ 10/23/2008 7:04:09 PM

    When you make a single issue the only decisive matter, you weaken your ability to affect every other issue on the table: and there are many.

    More importantly, if taking a pro-life position is all it takes to get your vote, don???t be surprised with who you end up with. As it is now, the devil himself could show up tomorrow preaching hate, war, death and destruction???and as long as he says he???ll appoint a social conservative to the Supreme Court, he???d have your vote.

    Wake up! You???re being exploited.

  • Posted By: jameskbachman @ 10/23/2008 6:58:05 PM

    The question comes down to enabling the moral evil of abortion by legalizing it. Now government funds are used for abortion- the government is not neutral. Saying, then, that one is opposed to abortion but must allow it legally is to accept complicity. Yes, there will be abortions anyway, but we need not aid and abet it by making it legal. And yes, we do need to work together to reduce abortions by persuasion also. If one child is saved from abortion by persuasion or by making it illegal, the effort is successful.

  • Posted By: Nowforthetruth @ 10/23/2008 6:05:16 PM

    Three surveys -- from the Associated Press-GfK, George Washington University and an Investors Business Daily/TIPP poll - - show McCain closing the gap with Obama.

    The AP poll puts Obama at 44 percent to McCain's 43 percent, compared with a 7 percentage point advantage for Obama in their September survey. The GW Battleground poll showed Obama's edge at 2 points, down from 7 points in the middle of October, while the IDB/TIPP tracking survey has the margin for the Democrat narrowing to 1 point from 5 points at the start of the week.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWRlkNLTILM8&refer=home


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324419/

    AP poll: Candidates running nearly even 10/22/08

    Neck-and-neck results are a departure from many recent national polls
    WASHINGTON - The presidential race tightened after the final debate, with John McCain gaining among whites and people earning less than $50,000, according to an Associated Press-GfK poll that shows McCain and Barack Obama essentially running even among likely voters in the election homestretch.

    The poll, which found Obama at 44 percent and McCain at 43 percent, supports what some Republicans and Democrats privately have said in recent days: that the race narrowed after the third debate as Republican-leaning voters drifted home to their party.

  • Posted By: chrisjfay @ 10/23/2008 4:15:53 PM

    I never justifed it. I said more people would be bad. Which is a fact. Then I stated that it is an economic issue, as well as a political issue. So stop putting words in my mouth by comparing me to Hitlers ideas of killing groups of people based on religion, race, etc. Thats more out of bounds than me saying it is an economic issue, because guess what? It is.

    Your second statement is misguided as well. I, once again, never said abortion would be good to control economy and society. I simply meant that large populations caused problems. Abortion is NOT a solution of these problems. It was proving a point that population growth is bad. Restructuring medicare, social security, and other social programs is the solution. I have never stated abortion would be good in anyway. So again, stop putting words in my mouth to make me seem far left. I obviously respect you opinion that abortion is wrong and can see the argument for it.

    • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 10/23/2008 5:29:44 PM

      Your plain statement states that population reduction is good. You didn't previously express much concern that abortion might be the means of reduction. Careful thought is important, people really do read what you write here.

  • Posted By: Healed @ 10/23/2008 4:21:54 PM

    Abortion is wrong but what adultery is not! I don't see the Catholics nor the Evangelicals crying out against adultery! McCain is an adulterer but yet the Catholics and Evangelicals support McCain so that is not wrong! Of course it is!

    • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 10/23/2008 5:09:45 PM

      We are electing a president not ordaining a religious leader. Jesus taught that murder was no different than complete contempt for a person...'if you call someone a fool you have committed murder'. That being said, it is difficult to find a saint who happens to be a candidate for president. The weight of daily abortions tends to exceed the divorce/adultery question. Not that I am pleased that McCain is divorced, but his first wife seems to have survived the experience and seems be successful in her own way. We are challenged to make rational choices.

    • Posted By: eustaceclark @ 10/23/2008 5:04:47 PM

      The difference McCain's possible adultery and Obama's support of abortion is that McCain, while he may be committing a sin of adultery,(that is not my place to judge) is not advocating that we use tax money to support adultery and forcing Americans who are opposed to divorce/remarriage to participate in it. Obama supports the FOCA (Freedom of Choice Act) that would overrule the few restrictions that states have put on abortions (parental notification and partial birth abortion), open the way for using tax dollars to fund abortions and legally oblige all doctors to perform abortions, even those who are against it. Committing a sin yourself is one thing, legally obliging others to participate in intrinsically evil actions is another.

  • Posted By: Healed @ 10/23/2008 4:24:05 PM

    You cannot compare the deaths of Roe v Wade to the deaths of the Iraqi war as to be more justified. Roe has been around much longer than the war and if the war lasted as long as Roe, then I am sure the death rate would be higher. Where in the Bible does God justify murder? He does not! Whether one innocent person is murdered or a thousand, it is STILL murder! I don???t care whom a person profess to be, they cannot change the word of God! Murder is murder and if you are not fighting against the war and fighting against Roe, then you are a hypocrite! The sin that is tearing down the foundation of this country is ADULTERY and since McCain and Cindy are adulterers, then electing them is GOING AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD! By electing McCain, a message is being sent that it is morally okay to divorce your ???handicapped??? spouse for a young and rich person and have the so called church to put a stamp of approval on you. That is an admonition against God! If McCain wins, if you think 9-11 was bad, wait until God sends or allows His next catastrophe to this country. Nothing happens without a reason and nothing goes happens unless God sends it or allows it and He either sent or allowed 9-11. Notice that 9-11 happened after Bush, the Republicans, and the Evangelicals tried to pimp Jesus. Since that happened along with this country in a war that God did not ordain, this country has not been the same since all of that happened. We have had more record breaking hurricanes, tornadoes, wild fires, draught etc ever in history! Satan does not control weather patterns and he cannot do anything unless God allows or offers someone up to Satan as Satan does not have more power than God.

    • Posted By: inheaven4 @ 10/23/2008 4:51:28 PM

      There are 4, 000 baboes aborted in one week.....are there 4,000 people dying in Iraq in one week?

  • Posted By: forte88 @ 10/22/2008 9:02:31 PM

    What a bunch of hipocrites! Jesus said, feed the poor, yet when someone wants to spread some weath to help the poor, they are called Evil Socialists, Jesus said "blessed are the peacemakers", yet when Obama says he would talk to enemies to negotiate peace, he is seen by these right wing christian finatics as weak. Will these same right to lifers also ban capital punishment? That's a life! Isn't ALL life precious? What are these right to lifers doing about helping these babies after they are born? All I see is them electing officials that want to remove all social services to help them survive. What about war? Jesus loved wars? Shouldn't it be aborhent to all chirstians to vote in officials that promote war which kills hundreds of thousands of other human beings? What about torture? I'm sure of all people, Jesus didn't like his torture, Didn't those same bible thumpers vote in an administration that tried to legitimize torture? Then the biggest sin of them all: excluding people from their church because of somethine they considered a sin. I've got news, the church shouldn't be a country club for good people, it should be a hospital for sinners. These practices of the Catholic church (and many other churches) is what turned me away from the church a long time ago. I grew up with strict Catholic parents, was an altar boy, and even the church organist for many years. I saw this hipocracy occurring and never looked back. It's all a sham!

    • Posted By: eustaceclark @ 10/23/2008 4:48:01 PM

      I don't have time to reply to all your points, but the first one in which you apply Jeus's words to Obama's "spread the wealth" policy is a sloppy reading of the Bible. Jesus said feed the poor, not force everyone else to feed the poor. McCain gives 28% of his income to charities. I don't know Obama's numbers, but Biden only gives .03% of his income to charity. Who is feeding the poor here?

  • Posted By: mitya @ 10/23/2008 3:38:44 PM

    To chrisjfay,

    The fact that you would justify the elimination of feti based on keeping the economy stable is disgusting and harkens back to Hitler's ideas of exterminating certain groups to keep Germany a strong nation (I realize Hitler comparison's are usually out of bounds, but your reasoning is pretty out of bounds).

    You should not delegate moral questions to the lesser concerns of societal efficiency. I suppose we would be in a much better situation today if a large percentage of the baby-boomer population were not alive. For me, that could have very well been my parents disposed of for reasons of convenience and economic efficiency. Which would be all the better, because then I would not be here as another consumer of Earth's resources, right?

  • Posted By: j.w. @ 10/23/2008 11:28:39 AM

    Abortion is not the only moral issue that Catholics must face. Those who believe is tis--such as the Denver Archbishop--are shortsighted and misguided. As Professor Kimiec and others have noted, Senator Obama's views and actions are consistent with the Church's pronouncements on prolife issues such as torture, the death penalty, criminal and social justice, and the Iraq War--not to mention the teachings on "option for the poor." If the question is what candidate is more likely to follow Jesus' admonition to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and console the prisoners, the anwer is undoubtedly Senator Obama.

    • Posted By: mitya @ 10/23/2008 3:33:17 PM

      As another post already pointed out which I think makes your entire argument an irrelevant one: What good are all of these commendable views for the individual denied the right to their created life? What do these policy matters on torture, Iraq, death penalty, etc. matter for a person not even allowed to live in the world where these issues are debated?

    • Posted By: dyerluke @ 10/23/2008 3:11:40 PM

      And the democratically elected Chancellor of Germany in 1932 did many good works. Unfortunately, he also had morallyunacceptable views too.

  • Posted By: chrisjfay @ 10/23/2008 3:31:31 PM

    Geon Lee-

    Wake up. New ideas and radical ideas are what change America. We've had moderate presidents for the past 28 years. Obama's votes against partial birth abortion were do to lack of protection for the mother, his entire reason for being pro-choice in the first place. Calling him evil is quite immature and you need to grow up.

    More people would actually hurt the economy, esp. right now and thinking otherwise is pretty silly. Baby boomers are about to destroy America's economy with medicare.

    Do you realize in Africa most cases of abortion are legal to protect the womens life, only some to protect her future phycial health or mental health, and more than 70% of countries it is illegal if you are raped or the baby with have birth defects?

    Your argument on religion is quite interesting. First, religion shouldn't be brought into this issue to begin with. Your religious views aside, this is America. So thinking in that terms about what is fair, abortion is a right. Just like its peoples right to own guns. I think that owning guns is dumb law, and there is no arguing guns kill people so are you anti guns? And cars, since thats a major cause of death? Here's a big one, how can you be so anti-abortion and believe in the death penalty? Remeber "all" life is scared according to the bible, and forgiveness is a huge basis of the religion. Answer that one for me.

    Obviously if you were aborted you wouldn't be alive. If you were dead would you be alive? No ***. If your parents never concieved you would you be alive? If you were born in a different part of the world would you be alive? If Earth could not support life would you be alive?

    This isn't even an argument for the womens right to choose as much as it is an argument against dumb people saying dumb things.

  • Posted By: tomwithers @ 10/23/2008 7:09:57 AM

    I am not from America (I'm from South Africa) but have become fascinated with the US Presidential Elections. I would like to know why Christians tend to be Ruplicans. Whilst I acknowledge that Christians would like to elect a leader that displays biblical principles, I cannot understand why they generally opt for Republicans. Put it this way: Whilst John McCain is pro-life (which is in line with the Bible), he has is also a proponent of a war that is TOTALLY unfounded and unjustified and has (and continues to) kill innocent people (this is defnitely not in line with the Bible). (Plus he has been divorced - this is quite clearly condemned in the Bible). So, on the balance of the two candidates, surely the principles of Obama are more "biblically" orientated? I'd appreciate some feedback from Americans reading this column.

    • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 10/23/2008 2:24:15 PM

      Tom, there are many Democrats who are Christians. The pro-life position tends to be a Republican issue though. These are the 'conservatives'. There is also a liberal Christian position which is referred to in this article. It is the 'greater good' idea. Kmiac wrote an article from this perspective.

      You share your opinion that the war is unjust, conservative Christians defend a 'just war'. Divorce is not a matter of life and death, and it is not defended by the Roman Catholic Church. It is very much a part of American Christianity. The divorce rate is the same in churches as in the 'unchurched' population.

      Obama is a member of a church that is loosely Christian. Most Catholics would find it very unlike the Catholic church. Most Christian churches would find it unorthodox. Jeremiah Wright was a former Black Muslim/black nationalist. It's hard to quantify '"biblically" oriented'. But I think most conservatives would find Obama to be motivated by liberal political ideas that are not easily connected to the Bible.

  • Posted By: ldatug @ 10/22/2008 4:47:43 PM

    I agree with you if you are ONLY voting based on abortion. BUT...there is so much else to consider...

    I am pro-life, but will vote for Obama. Why?? Because I believe that he has a better record on all other 'life' issues: human rights, genocide, uselessly fought war, etc. I wish that abortions were limited, but I do not believe that it is in our best interest to vote on that issue alone. I voted on that issue in 2000 and look where it got us...same number of abortions and MILLIONS of innocents killed around the world because of genocide and war.

    In addition....McCain is not a baptized Christian, so I do not believe that he deserves a Christian-based vote from me.

    • Posted By: Geon Lee @ 10/23/2008 2:12:31 PM

      WITHOUT LIFE, EVERYTHING ELSE is USELESS. Imagine: You were dead, what would be the use of power, education, money etc. ?

    • Posted By: fatherjoseph @ 10/22/2008 5:11:52 PM

      I am wondering how you know that McCain is not baptized - is that a fact? or hearsay?

      All the other issue would not matter if there was no life. Life choices have brought about war . .but, life itself within made the choices. So to equate war (just war, war by choice, or unjust), genocide etc...did you ever stop to think that those elements are there through the life and free will choices of "living people".
      \
      You can call yourself a pro-lifer but I am not too sure that is intellectual honest. But to the other issue, I can't vote unless I have "life". Life is the essence; the spirit of moving, choosing, et alii. ..all the other things are sequiturs from life.

      It's been a pleasure to reply. I in conscience could not vote for Obama, but, I do not dare try to persuade you to vote otherwise. He's a drug that has been taken by the people of the country and I don't think they are quite sure of the side effects. It's a popularity contest rather one of sound reasoning.

      Father Joseph
      Baton Rouge, La

  • Posted By: megany09 @ 10/22/2008 4:57:45 PM

    First, you say that "Support for Roe was Obama's stated reason for opposing Illinois bills aimed at providing legal protection for children who survived an abortion." You forgot to mention that there was already a law on the books that protected a baby who survived an abortion. You completely misconstrue that vote. Second, why is everything about Roe v Wade? Reversing that decision will only send the debate back to the states where most will still allow abortions to take place. Plus in the last debate, John McCain repeatedly said he would not support a litmus test on picking a Supreme Court Justice. You have no assurances from John McCain on that issue.

    • Posted By: Geon Lee @ 10/23/2008 2:09:23 PM

      Is it o.k. with you that a woman can go to a delivery room to give a birth to a baby or to an abortionist TO KILL THE BABY? It is not the issue of woman's body, but the issue of LIFE. If WE HAD BEEN ABORTED, would we be still ALIVE TODAY? Abortion is the killing of human life.

  • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 10/23/2008 2:05:53 PM

    I deeply appreciate George Weigel's effort to make this clear. May he be blessed and honored for his good work. May lives be saved because of his words.

  • Posted By: Nins @ 10/23/2008 12:09:28 AM

    I am a Catholic pro-Life white Republican woman. I am voting for Obama.

    People forget that BOTH Obama and McCain have been pro-Choice. McCain "flip-flopped" on this issue in 2004 when he started voting 90% with Bush. Prior to 2004 McCain was pro-Choice, and he even called Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell "agents of intolerance" (which in fact they were). Since that time he has stood on a stage with Jerry Falwell, praising him. So it is impossible to know what McCain actually thinks on this issue. Is he pandering to the religious right when he vows to overturn Roe v. Wade? What is really in his heart? How would he act if he were elected? Would you get the conservative McCain you see now, the liberal leftist McCain from 1999-2004? These inconsistencies disturb me. I know there is such a thing as political expedience, but the end result is that I can not trust McCain. Nobody knows his real views on abortion.

    Furthermore, I think that Obama's position on abortion and many other issues is considerably more moderate than is generally assumed.

    To all of the conservatives out there who think that Obama is a flaming liberal, I would like to remind you of what he did when he was elected President of the Harvard Law Review. The Law Review President gets to name ten individuals to write articles for the Review, and these ten people get to control the content of the publication. All of the minorities and the liberals thought they finally had it made, that Obama would appoint ten left wing editors. Instead, Obama appointed three conservatives, three liberals and four moderates. That year the Law Review was critically acclaimed as the best run and best written Harvard publication in decades.

    So when he wins in November, conservatives don't have to freak out. Obama is a centrist and will appoint a balanced cabinet full of active people who will really get things done. This is exactly what our nation needs in this time of economic crisis.

    • Posted By: Geon Lee @ 10/23/2008 1:52:52 PM

      Please do NOT BE DECEIVED, and do NOT RELY ON MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Obama was rated 100% in the rating of NARAL PRO-CHOICE, a STAUNCH PRO-ABORTION GROUP. In contrast, McCain OPPOSE abortion, but supports embyrionic stem cell research.

      If you rejects the teaching of popes and bishops who said that abortion MUST BE ALWAYS OPPOSED and is the OVERRIDING ISSUE (NOT ONE OF MANY), you ARE REJECTING JESUS, because Jesus said to His disciples: Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me(Luke 10:16).

  • Posted By: Healed @ 10/23/2008 12:58:42 AM

    Obama agrees with the Supreme Court that a woman should have the right to choose UP UNTIL 3 MONTHS which coincides per se with the embryo becoming a fetus or the ???likeness??? of man. Then, the embryo has life. For Obama and the 36 states, the right to choose ENDS at 3 months with the exception clause. In the 14 other states, as McCain desires the states to have control, there is a ban on abortion but the court ruling applies!



    Week 12: Baby's fingernails and toenails appear

    Twelve weeks into your pregnancy, your baby is nearly 3 inches long and weighs about 4/5 of an ounce. Your baby's head is nearly half the size of his or her entire body.

    This week marks the arrival of fingernails and toenails. Your baby's chin and nose will become more refined as well

    • Posted By: Geon Lee @ 10/23/2008 1:34:05 PM

      Are you JOKING? There are RECORDS on Obama's position on abortion, and NARAL PRO-CHOICE, a pro-abortion group, also rate Obama as 100%!!!!!!! Obama is THE MOST LIBERAL AND PRO-ABORTION candidate in the modern history. His stance on abortion is SO EXTREME that ALL OTHER DEMOCRAT senators do NOT SHARE Obama???s postion.
      Obama, as a Illinois state senator, VOTED four times AGAINST providing immediate medical care to NEW BORN-ALIVE BABIES, letting them DIE. while all other DEMOCART senators VOTED FOR the identical federal bill, BORN ALIVE INFANT PROTECTION ACT.
      Obama also supports PARTIAL BIRTH abortion, a GROUSOME BARBARIC procedure without ANASTASIA. (a mother can choose a delivery room or an abortionist to KILL THE BABY, and one of ABORTION SURVIVORS speaks AGAINST Obama).

      So, voting for Obama is COOPERATING in the EVIL and history will JUDG US..

  • Posted By: jruss65 @ 10/21/2008 9:26:57 PM

    Mr. Weigel, your central assertion that the unborn are "people" is a religious conviction, not a legal fact. (When is "personhood" bestowed upon them? at conception? Is your rationale for this the bible?) Thus the foundation of your entire argument becomes a testimony of faith, and as such, departs the realm of proper Government oversight.....as the founders, intended, and rightly upheld by the SCOTUS..

    • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 10/22/2008 6:39:25 PM

      If "personhood" is not bestowed at the time of conception, then when is it? I'm just curious what your thoughts are on "personhood" as it is on the Colorado ballot this election year.

      Please also tell me why you think believing the unborn are people is a religious conviction. I'm not trying to argue with you, just would like insight to your opinion.

      • Posted By: Geon Lee @ 10/23/2008 1:18:54 PM

        If we HAD BEEN ABORTED, WOULD WE BE ALIVE TODAY?

        Abortion is ALLOWED until JUST BEFORE BIRTH. So, a mother can choose between a delibery room to deliver the baby or an abortionist to KILL THE BABY without ANASTASIA.

  • Posted By: eustaceclark @ 10/23/2008 12:52:36 PM

    While it is true that abortion is not the only moral issue Catholics face, it is, as the Archbishop of Denver rightly points out, the predominant moral issue to which the others you list cannot compare. Since Roe v. Wade, 48 million innocent children have been killed through abortion. The war in Iraq, although it may be regrettable, does not have anywhere near that many deaths. Nor are those who die completely defenseless and innocent babies as are the victims of abortion. Abortion is not the only moral issue, but it is the overriding moral issue of our time.

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