Flawed Thinking

grej , there are abortions because there are unwonted pregnancies. Why there are unwanted, because of the Roe v. Wade law? NO!

It is not the Roe v. Wade law that causes women to resort to abortions, but the unwanted pregnancies, and hence, we have to focus on the measures that prevent such pregnancies.

I'm a person of faith and am pro-Obama/Biden ticket because both Obama and Biden are ACTUALLY pro-life since they support such pro-life and moral measures like health care coverage accessible to all pregnant women and children, empowering of women through prevention of unwanted pregnancies or through turning those unwanted pregnancies into wanted by providing the care women and their children need, as well prevention of STDs, prevention of promiscuity and date rape through comprehensive and age-appropriate sex education.

Those who are against such measures are not really pro-life, but merely hypocrites who label themselves as such.

I'm not pro-abortion, but I'm against criminalizing abortion because:

1) there is no way to tell a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) form an induced abortion, criminalizing abortion invites abuse of women who suffered miscarriages.

2) this question remains unanswered: who has the right to decide whose life is more valuable -- that of a woman or a child -- when a pregnancy threatens woman's life?

Genesis 2

7 Then the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man???s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

Adam was formed but he was not alive. An embryo is formed but it is not alive. Adam became a person when Adam was His ???likeness??? or recognizable and when God gave Adam His breath. Adam was formed having all the necessary organs etc but he was not complete until he was ???recognizable??? and able to breathe.

According to the Mayo Clinic, an embryo is considered as such until eleven weeks and then it becomes a fetus because at that time all structural features of the unborn are ???recognizable???. However, the heart beat begins at five weeks. Therefore, life does not begin once the sperm and egg unite nor does it begin at conception (when pregnancy begins).


???The Court ruled that the state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion during the first trimester, the state can regulate the abortion procedure during the second trimester ???in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health???, and the state can choose to restrict or proscribe abortion as it sees fit during the third trimester when the fetus is viable (???except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother???).???

The Supreme Court determined that a woman can have an abortion up to 12 weeks (3 months). After that, a woman is left in the hands of her state. In the second trimester (4 months ??? 6 months), the state can control abortion and make reasonable laws for the mother???s health. The third trimester, (7 ??? 10 months), the state can ban abortion except for the mother???s health or life. McCain wants to return the power to the states but the states ALREADY have the power except for the first trimester, life of the mother and health issues. However, McCain agrees with the mother???s life, rape and incest exceptions. Most pro-life advocates believe that life begins at conception.

The Mayo Clinic:

???It may seem strange, but you're not actually pregnant the first week or two of the time allotted to your pregnancy. Yes, you read that correctly!
Conception typically occurs about two weeks after your period begins. To calculate your due date, your health care provider will count ahead 40 weeks from the start of your last period. This means your period is counted as part of your pregnancy ??? even though you weren't pregnant at the time.???

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112

When God created Adam, Adam did not immediately have life until God gave him breath to breathe. As Adam, the embryo, was being molded, he was not alive as he was still being crafted or created. I can imagine God forming Adam???s head but Adam was not alive. I can imagine God forming Adam???s limbs, but Adam was not alive. I can imagine God forming Adam???s other parts of his body but Adam was not alive. God did not give Adam life until Adam had everything that he needed to survive. When Adam, the fetus, was the ???likeness??? of God, or ???recognizable??? then God gave Adam, the man, life.

Nins cannot possibly be pro-life ifshe is supporting Obama. One can use many words to desribe the freshman Senator and 'centrist' is not among them. There is NOTHING moderate when it come to his position on abortion.

Response to"I am a Catholic pro-Life white Republican woman. I am voting for Obama"

National Right to Life has endorsed John McCain. They look ar voting records. There is
nothing in Obama's histrical record to suggest in any way at all that he would be a moderate
on the issue

Mr. Obama???s Pro-Life (National Right to Life) rating=
2005 0%,
2006 0%,
2007 0%

His Pro-Abortion (NARAL) rating=
2005 100%,
2006 100%,
2007 100%
"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do." -- Senator Barack Obama, speaking to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, July 17, 2007

Freedom of Choice Act is a bill that would

nullify virtually all federal and state limitations on

abortion, including the types now permitted by

the Supreme Court, such as parental notification

laws and waiting periods. It would also make partial-birth abortion legal again.

National Right to Life has endorsed John McCain. There is reason for that.
Alveda King, niece of Martin Luther King, has said she cannot vote for Obama
because of his stand on abortion.

Ode 2 Obama?


(Please spread this message to as many as you can and PRAY)



"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do." -- Senator Barack Obama, speaking to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, July 17, 2007

Freedom of Choice Act is a bill that would

nullify virtually all federal and state limitations on

abortion, including the types now permitted by

the Supreme Court, such as parental notification

laws and waiting periods. It would also make partial-birth abortion legal again.

________________________________________________



The most telling debate Barack Obama ever had was not with John McCain but Patrick O'Malley, who served with Obama in the IL Senate and engaged Obama in a colloquy every American should read.


The Obama-O'Malley debate was a defining moment for Obama because it dealt with such a fundamental issue: The state's duty to protect the civil rights of the young and disabled....

Then-IL state Sen. Patrick O'Malley, contacted the state attorney general's office to see whether existing laws protected a newborn abortion-survivor's rights as a U.S. citizen. He was told they did not


O'Malley -- a lawyer, veteran lawmaker and colleague of Obama on the IL Senate Judiciary Committee -- drafted legislation to correct that.



In 2001, he introduced three bills. SB1093 said if a doctor performing an abortion believed there was a likelihood the baby would survive, another physician must be present "to assess the child's viability and provide medical care." SB1094 gave the parents, or a state-appointed guardian, the right to sue to protect the child's rights. SB1095 simply said a baby alive after "complete expulsion or extraction from its mother" would be considered a "'person, 'human being,' 'child' and 'individual.'"


In 2001, Senator Barack Obama was the only member of the Illinois senate to speak against a bill that would have recognized premature abortion survivors as ???persons.??? The bill was in response to a Chicago-area hospital that was leaving such babies to die. Obama voted ???present??? on the bill after denouncing it. (In Illinois present is the same as ???no???) It passed the state Senate but died in a state house committee.

In 2003, a similar bill came before Obama???s health committee. He voted against it. But this time, the legislation was slightly different. This latter version was identical to the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which by then had already passed the U.S. Senate unanimously (with a hearty endorsement even from abortion advocate Sen. Barbara Boxer) and had been signed into law by President Bush.

Sen. Obama is currently misleading people about what he voted against, specifically claiming that the bill he voted against in his committee lacked ???neutrality??? language on Roe v. Wade. The bill did contain this language. He even participated in the unanimous vote to p

I totally support Obama's stance on vouchers. If his reason is to keep children out of Catholic schools, that is all to the good.
And Obama IS pro life. It's just that others are anti choice.

Ode 2 Obama

"Seen mountaintop!" ???in Memphis, Martin declared,
Though nary such notion dared enter his head.
That a skinny kid, orphan, now Michelle's honey,
Could vault Chicago to that House in DC!

Snatched from their culture to toil without pay,
Forebears bled growing fortunes for blest USA.
Tots torn from their mothers, fathers forced to flee
The flaming crosses in our history.

But thank the Good Lord, who had wrought in the past,
So great a deliverance through Moses??? cast.
And now with Barack, yes we too shall restore
Freedom's fulfillment, prosperity and law.

Sally Hemmings' inverse, Obama in each -
The "Man with the Speech" many ramparts did breech;
With wisdom, energy and potent ideas
From all of God's children who've conquered their fears.


Sam Christian is author of Mannafast Miracle, www.mannafast.org

Ode 2 Obama

"Seen mountaintop!" ???in Memphis, Martin declared,
Though nary such notion dared enter his head.
That a skinny kid, orphan, now Michelle's honey,
Could vault Chicago to that House in DC!

Snatched from their culture to toil without pay,
Forebears bled growing fortunes for blest USA.
Tots torn from their mothers, fathers forced to flee
The flaming crosses in our history.

But thank the Good Lord, who had wrought in the past,
So great a deliverance through Moses??? cast.
And now with Barack, yes we too shall restore
Freedom's fulfillment, prosperity and law.

Sally Hemmings' inverse, Obama in each -
The "Man with the Speech" many ramparts did breech;
With wisdom, energy and potent ideas
From all of God's children who've conquered their fears.


Sam Christian is author of Mannafast Miracle, www.mannafast.org

George Weigel is RIGHT ON!!! I have been in the parking lot of church and as I walk into the church and see Obama bumper stickers. I wanted to leave a note but I couldn't articulate it right. I printed out a small declaration that lets catholics know that it is wrong. I hope I get to leave this on someones car to educate them of their error.

The effect of many of our laws is to impose a moral code on society at large.
That's not just a church position. Man's laws, if they are said to be legitimate
in the end derive from some higher power, at least something higher than
our own narrow ,inward ,selfish ,self interest.

I have to agree with the "greatmidwest" post. Because of the child abuse scandal, the Catholic Church does not have the moral authority to tell anyone to do anything. We also have this separation of church and state thing in our country. If churches want to get involved in politics, they have the right to do that. But their tax exempt status would have to be forfitted. In effect, an institution that is involved in political activity is no longer a church. You want to be involved in politics, pay your taxes.

Finally -- sigh -- I understand that for many anti-abortion people, "life begins at the moment of conception" is the water that you are swimming in. But the reality is that most of us believe that a woman's womb belongs to her. It does not belong to the state. No federal or state or local government has the right to tell her what to do with it. For a church to insist that the government force a woman to give up her right to her own uterus is a violation of her constitutional rights, and against the law

Most of us, also, do not believe that a zygote/embryo/fetus in the first trimester of gestation is a person. Therefore, we don't believe that anybody is committing murder when she makes the decision to undergo an abortion procedure in that period. After that, it makes sense to allow a woman whose health is in serious danger to undergo an abortion . Nor can we buy the comparison to the slavery issue, since slaves were living people; who deserved equal rights under the law. Of course, the Bible is full of slavery. It was quite a normal thing in those times. But in the United States, we made a legal decision, not a religious one, that one person cannot be the property of someone else.

If an individual wants to cast his or her vote based on religious principles, that's his or her decision. He or she can try to convince neighbors or friends. But in the U.S., religious officials of all faiths should not use their positions to try to influence elections. That's against the law. It's also wrong.

Outstanding Mr. Weigel. You are a credit to the Faith and the proper formation of conscience for faithful citizenship. Well done, sir. For all those out there fulminating at this article, your arguments miss the mark. No one is saying that the other Culture of Life issues are irrelevant (though we likely would disagree on the best method of pursuing them). Conservatives just don't look to the secular state as the best mechanism for pursuing such matters. Claims that Christ would are dubious, "render unto Caesar, the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Moreover, issues such as war and capital punishment, the Church recognizes secular authority's legitimate interests in such realms and does not categroically forbid them (CCC 2265-2267; 2308-2310). Abortion however is an intrisic evil all the time. Keep up the good fight Mr. Weigel! The scales may fall from their eyes yet.....

You cannot equate the death penalty with
abortion.
Abortion is ALWAYS the DELIBERATE destruction of INNOCENT human LIFE.
You cannot equate poverty with abortion
I myself have been hungry and gone without food
but thanks to being alive, I know what the upside of life is.
A child of poor mother who is aborted will not even know the simple pleasure of a Big Mac.

With the Death penalty, you are putting to
death the most heinous of murderers.
It is possible for an INNOCENT person to be put to death but it is rare and it is not INTENTIONAL. Many states do not employ the death penalty at all. But in every state abortions are performed. There is the law of proportionality here too.
As far as war goes, Joan of Arc, who is a saint led an army into war.
Lincoln had the North fight a war against the South to free the slaves. Was that wrong to do or should he allowed slavery to continue?
Saddan Hussen caused to be murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people The Iraqis are glad to be rid of him.

The effect of many of our laws is to impose a moral code on society at large.
That's not just a church position.

You all need to read Bill Donohue's tongue in cheek column on why a Catholic could support David Duke for president.
He was basically using some of you peoples logic against you. I mean just because I feel racism
and discrimination are wrong, why should I impose my moral beliefs on those who believe in segregation?

Or what if I want to own a slave? Or have multiple wives? Or marry a 12 year old?