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  • Posted By: Clatech @ 10/22/2008 11:30:40 PM

    I agree, the Nobel peace prize really took a hit and diminished its sovereignty when it was awarded to Al Gore. He's still laughing it up there in his private jet pouring tons of carbon into the atmosphere!

    • Posted By: Texas Jake @ 10/22/2008 11:37:06 PM

      Al Gore won the prize because he championed the Global Tax Scam (carbon credits)!

  • Posted By: peedoff @ 10/22/2008 11:31:02 PM

    Hey Spindrift,
    Alan Greenspan was a student odf Ayn Rand, but then he became Chairman of the Fed and abandoned most of the Objectivist principles he had learned from her. Like the Socialists, do not blame a problem created by one entity on something else. Just the fact that Greenspan was at the helm when all this happened does not mean that he correctly applied the principles he learned. Greenspan has not been part of the objectivist circle for several decades now.

    9mmshort, You're right, but one can't stop trying

  • Posted By: Sheffeld @ 10/22/2008 11:30:11 PM

    As an economist, I respect these laureates. As an ex Wall Streeter, I find the one item missing that was a significant (if not major) cuase of the financial meltdown. There is no mention of accurate valuation of assets, be they real estate, securities or borrowers. All of the mentioned solutions will not work if assets are misrepresented to lenders, investors, insurers or buyers. This situation WILL recur.

  • Posted By: LizinTX @ 10/22/2008 11:28:11 PM

    I disagree completely with Professor Krugman except on one item: these are wild times. The 1930s were a simpler time. People were willing to work. That is why FDR???s public works programs were so successful. The welfare state has completely changed the playing field. The only people willing to work these days are Mexican immigrants. Just ask any employer who has placed an ad for blue collar workers, or even white collar store clerks ??? they don???t get responses.

    As for Obama???s umbrella health care plan for people who don???t qualify for Medicaid or have health care through employers ??? just how long do you think it will take employers to figure out that if they discontinue health care to their employees, the government will pick up the tab. And these same people ??? the ones who are working ??? will have to pay higher taxes for the privilege. It???s called spreading the wealth, or punishing incentive, whether you are Joe the Plumber or Jane the receptionist. The problem is not so much with coverage as it is with unreasonable prices for prescriptions and medical procedures.

  • Posted By: bherber83 @ 10/22/2008 11:25:00 PM

    The War in Iraq was promoted by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld who have been part of the Republican executive circle since the days of Gerald Ford. (They were both members of Ford's cabinet). They believed that by ousting Sadam Hussein, a Democratic government would prevail in Iraq, eventually become a US ally and as a result benefit us by allowing for cheaper oil for the US. Unfortunately they didn't consider that it is an unstable country by nature and always will be because of sectarian violence. There are 3 sectarian groups - the Sunnis, the Shiites, and the Kurds, who will always fight each other for religious reasons. (Just like the Israelis and Palestines have always and will always fight each other). Joe Biden who helped resolve the Kosovo conflict during the Clinton administration, has proposed splitting up the country into 3 sectarian states which would help to resolve these ongoing conflicts. Something like this is likely to work because it has been proven to work in Bosnia-Serbia. Right now Iraq is one big conglomerate mess with no infrastructure and honestly, we have ourselves to blame...

  • Posted By: andrewpot @ 10/22/2008 11:24:10 PM

    Agree whole heartily with Peedoff; But, as far as the Column goes could not agree more with William Carey; Paul Krugman's assessment made no sense at all; and to think Noble used to have a patriotic ring to it; is now gone forever...No better image was during Katrina when a reporter went up to a man in a lounge chair, drinking a beer, and said "Where do you go from here"?....Guy says "I don't know, but something has to give"...It is like yeah get off your ass walk to safety and stop relying on the government to bail you out...

  • Posted By: Kouros Pappadopoulous @ 10/22/2008 11:21:58 PM

    Americans have to realise, and very soon too, that there is no free lunch! The current crisis was just waiting to happen with irresponsible government spending and policies - here read unbridled deregulation of the financial market. Well, now to the remedies: first the minimal amount of regulation in the financial markets with credit worthiness being the underlying yardstick, second a compulsory savings scheme for all working citizens with a pre-defined percentage contribution by emloyers and employees alike of salaries earned (this fund will be apportioned to be part medical, part housing and part retirement nest egg - the typical contribution would be of the order of not less than 10% by contributing parties), third create jobs through infrastructure rehabilitation and development with government (federal and state) spending and funding provided by the employee/employer "savings fund", fourth judicious investment in health care calling for a sensible private sector/public sector mix, revisit standards of education bottom up with the emphasis on science and technology and encouraging R&D, and last but not least, reviewing military expenditure and the predisposition to unnecessary and often futile excursions abroad.

    As for taxes, the long term goal must be to reduce taxes and especially corporate taxes to encourage both domestic and foreign investment. However, the primary task is to get the system going and for it to reach steady state before any drastic "fix-its"! So the strategy is similar to a critically injured victim: one - stanch the haemorraging, two - stabilise the system, three - rehabilitate the patient to recovery, and four - fortify and arm the patient with a sensible and manageable lifestyle.

    But how do we bell the cat? Effective management, and this will be new President's greatest challenge. Seek out the nation's best (brains and experience in equal measure) and abide by the 5 cardinal rules of effective management - planning, organising, staffing, MONITORING and CONTROL.

    In short, the "invisible hand" has to be sensed but not be overt - a little like the "holy spirit", everpresent but not intrusive!

    Kouros Pappadopoulos
    Desperate times demand despearte measures and so the

  • Posted By: bherber83 @ 10/22/2008 11:16:29 PM

    Spindrift, this is not Alan Greenspan's fault. You can never pin the blame of a poor or successful economy on any single individual. If you've ever taken macroeconomics, you would learn that recessions and expansions occur naturally in alternating cycles. Unfortunately, whoever is president at the time gets either the credit for expansion and prosperity, or blamed for a recession. The prosperity of 90s made Bill Clinton look good, and the recent recessions have made George Bush look bad. I'm not trying to bash or support either candidate, this is simply the reality. I honestly believe that we need to restrain spending (which is impossible in today's Congress because of earmarks), bring troops home from Iraq (my goodness what a waste of money - HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars), and NOT raise taxes. Raising taxes will hurt this economy plain and simple, no one can refute that.

  • Posted By: spindrift @ 10/22/2008 11:06:59 PM

    I must say, Alan Greenspan was a student of the Ayn Rand school of survival of the fittest and look where that got us. Try spending the money used to chase oil (via war) assets on infra structure and on energy self dependence. At leas tif that fails, there will still be something left of America when financial armeggedon arrives

    • Posted By: 9mmshort @ 10/22/2008 11:09:43 PM

      When will these people stop whining that this is a war for oil? You might as well say it is a war for peanut butter because it has got us as much of both.

      • Posted By: LsPr @ 10/22/2008 11:13:32 PM

        The war in Iraq wasn't about oil?

  • Posted By: liparky @ 10/22/2008 11:11:41 PM

    vblick, You're ideas are great! I have only one addition. The government should crack down on these
    employers that hire illegal immigrants. My son is a construction worker for the union and he said about 3/4 of the people where he works are illegals and the company is aware of it. He said it is a safety issue because they don't speak english.

  • Posted By: peedoff @ 10/22/2008 11:09:08 PM

    Paul Krugmann is a Socialist. That's the important thing one needs to know. His advise is poison.

  • Posted By: Bellagio23 @ 10/22/2008 11:07:57 PM

    slammer360, are you GW's speech writer?

  • Posted By: 9mmshort @ 10/22/2008 10:54:27 PM

    "spreading the wealth"?? Move to a country where they openly socialist if thats how you want it. So you can benefit from someone else's hard work. Why is it that everyone forgets that Clinton had just started his first term when the internet took off? He had the great fortune of the biggest economic boom in the history of US, even more so than the industrial revolution. He was sitting around getting blow jobs while the country got rich and he had nothing to do with it. These Clinton loving commucrats really have they're head in they're a$$.

    • Posted By: jbs5280 @ 10/22/2008 11:02:24 PM

      9mmshort, rotate the gun 180 degrees so the barrell is pointing directly at your nose. Ensure a full clip and have some fun!

      • Posted By: 9mmshort @ 10/22/2008 11:05:26 PM

        jbs5280.. Don't worry, ALL my clips are full..now you wanna come try your luck..or maybe post something intlligent?

  • Posted By: 9mmshort @ 10/22/2008 11:02:10 PM

    Hey peedoff...I don't know how much luck you'll have with your post. Most of these blogs don't deal well with truth or reason.

  • Posted By: peedoff @ 10/22/2008 10:59:06 PM

    The nobel prize stopped meaning anything of substance the day the Peace prize was awarded to Yasser Arafat. Calling in a panel of Nobel prize winners to comment about how to 'fix' the economy is like taking Bin Laden's advise about what is best for America. The Nobel prizes have become a venue for direct attack on core American values of Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Every recent Nobel laureate has held virulent convictions that are directly opposed to what this country was built on. The right to life is not the right to be kept alive. Yet that is the solution most of these 'experts' suggest. Tax the rich so that the poor may live. When did this become a country based on envy, like the communist regime in the USSR? There is no right to health. Health is something one earns through a lifetime of proper living. But as soon as someone says this, he is accused of being insensitive to the poor. It is not OK to demand that people take some personal responsibility anymore but apparently it is perfectly acceptable to blame the rich for every societal ill. The truth is that this entire mess was created by Government regulation in the form of the CRA (Community restructuring Act) passed by the Socialist Carter and fully implemented by the Clinton Administration. The act made it unacceptable for banks to base their loans on credit scores under the charge that it was discriminatory and prevented everyone from owning a home. Yes, many banks were greedy and lent money that should not have been lended. But the Government, with arbitrary regulations, distorted the normal risk that every lender considers before lending. You cannot put a gun to someone's head and demand they do something, and then turn around and blame them for what they did. Advocating that Government regulation is what is needed to solve this problem is like asking a person dying of Arsenic poisoning to drink more arsenic.If you are looking for proper, objective answers to these questions, visit the Ayn Rand institute website. Or better yet, read Atlas Shrugged. To hell with the Nobel laureates!

  • Posted By: marley07 @ 10/22/2008 10:03:41 PM

    Wake up people!! It absolutley amazes me that people one, listen to the media and two, listen to anything Obama has to say. One word describes Obama, Socialism. If you want government to decide your lives for you, then move somewhere else because you are not American. I am not a right winger anymore than I simply believe in FREEDOM. My God people, wake up. In regards to this article, everone has an answer now, but where was everyone before this problem. It is a FACT, that about 3-4 years ago Greenspan, McCain and the republicans warned about Fannie and Freddie, which by the way is purley BArney Frank and Chuck the idiot Schummers' doing, and the problem we could have from what they were doing. Do people forget that Clinton was the one who signed the bill into law for affordable housing? Everyone has to have a house they can't afford right? Bunch of crap. Governement ruins everything so please please do not vote for Obama!! Free market capitalism works people, let it work. I could go on and on about Obama and all the stuff with ACORN and that terrosrist he hangs out with and the flip flopping he does just to get your vote from state to state, etc etc, the list goes on and on and on. He will ruin this country and it makes me sick anyone would vote for this guy. This was not greed, this was not wall street, this was democrats in the government, plain and simple. Do your own research and look into it, the fact are there. Do NOT listen to the media as they are biased beyond belief towards the so called annointed one...give me a f...ing break. Its like Gore and his global warming while he flies around in a private jet and uses more energy for his personal use than my entire neighborhood. It is like Frank and Schummer loving this governemnt intervention to cover their asses. Most importantly it is Obama saying a tax cut for 95% of Americans, when 40% don't even pay taxes. HE will kill small business and they are the ones who create jobs. So those of you who think your getting a tax cut with Obama, does it really matter when you won't have a job? Wake Up!!!

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 10/22/2008 10:17:32 PM

      Tell us exactly how you define "socialism" - I'm really not sure what you're ranting about. We live in a democratic republic. There is no chance of an elected official creating a socialist state - not unless the majority votes for it! And I think you're confusing "communism" with the term "socialism" - there are a lot of good things that a socialist government can make happen - a welfare state is not a bad thing at all. But your definition please - I want to see if you really know what you're talking about. Coz it seems as if you're just pissed off that 40% of the population "do not pay any taxes" -- where do you get that figure? And I'm assuming that you believe this 40% is largely the indigent, the Blacks, the Illegals (as your camp calls them), the poor, etc.

      It is a lot more likely that 40% of the population not paying their taxes is a translation of the very uppermost rich population finding 40% worth of loopholes and we all know that corporations have had virtually a free ride these last 10 years with a GOP-dominated White House and (before two years ago) Congress.

      Obama is not trying to take from the rich and give to the poor, you simple-minded twit. He's sophisticated, intelligent, educated and polished - and he will ceratinly make a better job of the economy than your man Bush or McCain would - the GOP is totally out of ideas, and most of the economists and thinkers in this country are voting for the Steady Hand - that would be.... OBAMA,.

      • Posted By: jbs5280 @ 10/22/2008 10:35:32 PM

        notroubleatall1963, you're my freakin' hero man. The headline...."morley07, sufficiently smacked". It's really easy and fun to whack these morons isn't it ?:)

        • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 10/22/2008 10:39:45 PM

          Thanks, "my friend" (ugh, who does that remind you of!)... ;-)

          • Posted By: jbs5280 @ 10/22/2008 10:58:49 PM

            reminds me of how dumbass McCain ruined a good phrase. But, I bet he was using it in code...MF:)

      • Posted By: marley07 @ 10/22/2008 10:38:41 PM

        The majority, if Obama wins and God i hope not, will be Obama and Liberal Congress and they will create a socalist society, fascist, communist, whatever you feel like you need to call it, but it certainly won't be the idea thar our "framers" if you will had in mind. Do some homework and look at the facts. Looking at your comments you are one of those people who complain about others doing well for themselves. Do you realize how much of the actual tax revenue the wealthier Americans pay? I suppose you listen to Obama when he says that warren buffet thinks its a good idea. Well no kidding, it does not affect him. Rich is 250,000..please. You know what a person in new york city making 250,000 can afford? basically nothing. Who is he to define rich anyway? He is taking from someone and giving it to another you idiot. Nationalized healthcare, yeah that is a good idea, but i suppose you will complain about the providers making too much money too right? Bitch and complain and wait for a hand out then like the rest of the liberal idiots.

        • Posted By: jbs5280 @ 10/22/2008 10:55:21 PM

          morley07, one point on this: not every person in America is going to own a business and many who do probably shouldn't based on failure rates. Another point: There are only a few things I know well in this world, but leadership is one of them. When you look at what the most effective leaders do, you can use Bush, McCain and the like to represent the antithesis. This country needs leadership and that devises a clear strategy and direction, has the courage, humility and determination to see it through when and to keep it on the right track for greater good. Do a little homework on the subject of leadership and read Egonomics and Good to Great. When you finish, if you can understand what they are telling you, and you conclude that McCain or Bush exemplify what great leaders do, then ping me please. I'll be glad to refer you to a clinical psychologist in your area. In fact, I'll ask a few posters if we can take up a collection to pay for your therapy since it will undoubtedly help all of us. One thing you and many like you forget, as a nation and as a people, we're stronger when we're all doing better than when we have such a gap and a destruction of the middle class. By the way, I'm unaffiliated and have voted both sides of the isle in my many years on earth and will continue to be an independent, as in thinker. I think the flock is large enough with you and the too many others who couldn't possibly subjugate your own personal needs for something bigger, greater and longer lasting than yourselves.

        • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 10/22/2008 10:43:02 PM

          Marley, why are you defending and fighting for the upper echelon of society who has obviously corrupted our system now so totally that it's impacting the rest of the global economy?

          Wise up yourself - I'm not making light of your ideas or position, but I just can't understand why you'd fight to cut off your nose to spite your own damn face? I am not against being rich - I am quite comfortable, thankfully, so far.... I'm just in favor of "spreading the wealth" because when Clinton was in the White House, he did the same thing and it worked wonderfully (to put it simply).

  • Posted By: peedoff @ 10/22/2008 10:58:29 PM

    The nobel prize stopped meaning anything of substance the day the Peace prize was awarded to Yasser Arafat. Calling in a panel of Nobel prize winners to comment about how to 'fix' the economy is like taking Bin Laden's advise about what is best for America. The Nobel prizes have become a venue for direct attack on core American values of Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Every recent Nobel laureate has held virulent convictions that are directly opposed to what this country was built on. The right to life is not the right to be kept alive. Yet that is the solution most of these 'experts' suggest. Tax the rich so that the poor may live. When did this become a country based on envy, like the communist regime in the USSR? There is no right to health. Health is something one earns through a lifetime of proper living. But as soon as someone says this, he is accused of being insensitive to the poor. It is not OK to demand that people take some personal responsibility anymore but apparently it is perfectly acceptable to blame the rich for every societal ill. The truth is that this entire mess was created by Government regulation in the form of the CRA (Community restructuring Act) passed by the Socialist Carter and fully implemented by the Clinton Administration. The act made it unacceptable for banks to base their loans on credit scores under the charge that it was discriminatory and prevented everyone from owning a home. Yes, many banks were greedy and lent money that should not have been lended. But the Government, with arbitrary regulations, distorted the normal risk that every lender considers before lending. You cannot put a gun to someone's head and demand they do something, and then turn around and blame them for what they did. Advocating that Government regulation is what is needed to solve this problem is like asking a person dying of Arsenic poisoning to drink more arsenic.If you are looking for proper, objective answers to these questions, visit the Ayn Rand institute website. Or better yet, read Atlas Shrugged. To hell with the Nobel laureates!

  • Posted By: slammer360 @ 10/22/2008 10:31:53 PM

    in regards to Mr. Phelps article. I find it informative. the part on shareholders and ceo wages thats great.
    stimulating businees with subsidies also a fine idea as long as corprate dont take the work over seas
    so we can keep the jos and maybe afford to buy what they sell. this use to be a proud country every thing was made here people had jobs had money could buy things and save for retirement untill corprate greed got involved and pride had a price tag.
    i live in south west florida were the housing market is big part of our economy. i own a small plumbing company i'm down to me and my partner i have taken 4 paychecks since feb. im a month behind on my home trying to keep the business afloat . some tell me to walk away i built this house to die in and no body is hiring so where do you walk to. corprate greed keep jobs here people will work money will be spent and saved and the middle class will keep the gears turning

    • Posted By: jbs5280 @ 10/22/2008 10:38:38 PM

      no offense intended at all slammer360, but based on your statements, I hope you're voting for Obama.

  • Posted By: carche69 @ 10/22/2008 10:34:49 PM

    There are so many intelligent, well-informed posters on here, yet I am so surprised that there has been no mention of the Libertarian views on the economy: that government should stay out of it! Neither McSame or Obama can or will offer this country anything different than what we've seen over the past few decades. It will only continue to get worse as the federal government will keep getting larger and larger, and the states will lose more and more of their powers. THIS IS NOT HOW OUR FOUNDING FATHERS' INTENDED OUR COUNTRY TO BE RAN!!! Both of these candidates are an abomination to our Constitution, and people need to WAKE UP and realize that. It is amazing to me that I can talk to strangers, friends, family about the positions of the Libertarian party, and they will almost always agree that things need to change from the current 2-party system, but then they go right into that ballot box and vote for the same party they have been voting for all their lives. How bad does it have to be before people will commit to change? It reminds me of 'V for Vendetta,' one of the most impacting films I have ever seen. If anyone cares to know more, go to YouTube & search for the 'Politically Incorrect Guide to Politics' that John Stossell did on 20/20. Very informative stuff.

    • Posted By: slammer360 @ 10/22/2008 10:55:42 PM

      i think the real problem is carrer polititions. when rosevellte was elected a third term the house and senate made sure that wouldnt happen again but what about them they set up there in somebodies back pocket and probably get reelected on name recognition because dont know about the new guy 4-6 years make them leave get new blood new ideas i dont think politics was ment to be a carrer it was to better your country not stick it to it

  • Posted By: Obama-Rules @ 10/22/2008 10:10:42 PM

    Marley07, you yourself are a joke! I bet your a big Bush fan! Would Gore be a good President, probably not but we would be ia a hell of a lot better shape than we are now with Bush! McCain voted 90% of the time to go along with Bush! So if your a Bush fan then that tells it all.............YOUR AN IDIOT!

    • Posted By: marley07 @ 10/22/2008 10:52:56 PM

      you must listen to msnbc,, am I right.? voted 90% of the time..funny. You are just one of those uneducated people who get their information from the media becuase if you did not, you would understand this mess we are in had nothing to do with Bush you jackass. The blame is all over, but starts with american people trying to live above their means and democrats, period. Frank, Schummer, Clinton etc. and don't say we had the a good economy under Clinton because of CLinton, he had a free ride. Keep complaining and sit on your ass and let the government come bail you out, seems to be what you do best.

    • Posted By: marlifornia @ 10/22/2008 10:31:09 PM

      How many times did Bush veto a bill? Stands to reason many member's of congress "voted" with Bush. Calling someone an idiot based on a few online comments seems pretty harsh. Lashing out in anger during a free exchange of ideas cannot be very productive. Obama and McCain had four years to step out and make headlines with proposals to "change" how things are done in Washington. Neither candidate will make any real changes.

      oneforallmankind.org

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