History of the ‘S’ Bomb

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  • Posted By: RO in Reno @ 10/24/2008 4:58:56 PM

    The Republicans have long realized the key to success is more a form of brainwashing than anything else.
    It may date all the way back to Joe McCarthy, The Hollywood source of those people branded "communist??? was none other than Ronald Reagan.
    But many words have been systematically demonized, "Labor Unions??? the word Liberal was made to be the same as a well known four letter word.

    But the word association game the Republicans play has had notable success, Had Bush not been able to associate Iraq with 9/11 we would never have invaded. That association was repeated perhaps millions of times by the right wing radio hosts and of course Fox "news"
    McCain's incessant drive to convince people Obama has terrorist sympathies or is a socialist is just more of the same really dirty campaigning the Republicans have done for many years.

    Guess if you really have no platform the best thing is to make the other guy look worse than you are by associating him to some undesirable trait or belief.
    It's sad because in the end if it works the next President will be elected by the low information voters and nut jobs who are most susceptible to what the rest will recognize as a bald faced lie,
    The same people who elected the current president and look what that has brought America.

    Guliani uses it, he became known for his nown, verb, 9/11 style of compaigning

  • Posted By: AskPlus @ 10/24/2008 4:44:48 PM

    It started with the GOP saying we'll say: Grandma was thrown under a bus. Next day the blog supporters rant and rave about it. Same thing with Pastors. Then Flagpins, then Michelle Obama, then Ayers, Rezko, birth certificates - and none of it pans out. Nothing. Nada. So, the plan of attack was to keep saying it so some would think it panned out anyway. The call was: The media doesn't cover Obama's shortcomings, they are biased. Even though the media used 10 different angles for every accusation. The next day the GOP say those who follow Obama are "brain-washed". Next day same thing. "You're all brainwashed." Then they walk the discrimination ploy with: "He's not one of us." "He does not think like we do." "He pals around with terrorist. He's scary." " We'll call the liberals racists (even though Liberal talk tolerance) for calling us racists." Ta-DAAA. They put him on food stamps. All of it failed so they sunk to McCarthyism and rolled out the "socialist card" and all the bloggers now say he's a socialist - even though socialist really don't support Obama - and can't. Today Ms. Todd used the old 1980's 1990's stand-by, and was caught lying.

    How do you think the latest is going to affect the McCain ticket? I'd call the GOP desperate, but they'd turn it around and call the Dems that.

    • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 4:49:17 PM

      You still don't know who this guy is, do you?

      • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 4:57:07 PM

        Sure we do. He's a senator from Illinois.

        You're welcome.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 4:47:58 PM

      Just smile as they circle the drain.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:14:52 PM

    Dr. Khalid Abdullah Tario Al-Mansour, has admonished his flock, to cut off the noises, ears and flesh of whitey.
    This is the same guy that paid for Barrack to go to Harvard, at the request of the Far left Radical factions in Chicago. Their hope was that it would not be traceable. He also is a key advisor to a Sudanese Prince that has activly supported Hamas.

    • Posted By: AskPlus @ 10/24/2008 4:51:16 PM

      New name. Same Kerr-AA-zie!

  • Posted By: LVUONG @ 10/24/2008 1:32:28 PM

    The same foot-prints, big well-fare system, big government-control, big spending, more regulations, higher taxes, i.e. all those who work will be punished or taxed to finance the big spending and pay for well-fare, and less and less freedom for people.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:03:28 PM

      We have less freedom than we had in 2000, and that isn't the dems

      • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 2:15:51 PM

        Anything you can't do today that you could in 2000?

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:21:33 PM

          Yeah.

          1. Have a private phone conversation.

          2. Enjoy KNOWING I have writ of habeas corpus on my side.

          3. That whole 4th amendment thing.

          4. I used to be able to rest easy knowing that I had due process of law on my side. Now, if they decide to call me a "terrorist", I get slung in the Philly brig, with no way to clear my name.

          5. I kind of liked amendment VIII, too.

          Any other questions?

          • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 2:31:39 PM

            1. Have a private phone conversation.
            -You do unless you???re calling oversea to a terrorist area and the NSA picks up on keyword.

            2. Enjoy KNOWING I have writ of habeas corpus on my side.
            -allowing the court to determine whether that custodian has lawful authority to hold that person. Unless you were in the middle east shooting at soldiers you still have it.

            3. That whole 4th amendment thing.
            - guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. Last time I checked a warrant was still require for searches

            4. I used to be able to rest easy knowing that I had due process of law on my side. Now, if they decide to call me a "terrorist", I get slung in the Philly brig, with no way to clear my name.
            -See number 2

            5. I kind of liked amendment VIII, too.
            - which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments. Again see #2

            Any other questions?

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:49:54 PM

              Comment: "1. Have a private phone conversation.
              -You do unless you???re calling oversea to a terrorist area and the NSA picks up on keyword."

              Or unless you're a service member calling home, in which case the NSA will record your calls and play them around the office for their amusement.

              "2. Enjoy KNOWING I have writ of habeas corpus on my side.
              -allowing the court to determine whether that custodian has lawful authority to hold that person. Unless you were in the middle east shooting at soldiers you still have it."

              Unless your name is Hamje, Padillo, or Anderson. Or unless you decided to protest at the GOP convention.

              "3. That whole 4th amendment thing.
              - guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. Last time I checked a warrant was still require for searches"

              Then you need to read the PATRIOT Act again. Your "papers" (amendment IV) can be searched without warrant, and it is now a federal crime for anyone to tell you it happened.

              "4. I used to be able to rest easy knowing that I had due process of law on my side. Now, if they decide to call me a "terrorist", I get slung in the Philly brig, with no way to clear my name.
              -See number 2"

              See what in number 2? If I can't have my day in court, how can I prove I'm NOT a terrorist? You place entirely too much trust in the government.

              "5. I kind of liked amendment VIII, too.
              - which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments. Again see #2"

              Yeah, like waterboarding, or being beaten with a 1/2" wire rope. Again, if you aren't allowed access to an attorney, how are you going to show that you aren't what they claim you are?

              You'd make a fine slave. You already have the correct mindset.

              Any other questions?


              • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 3:12:06 PM

                Or unless you're a service member calling home, in which case the NSA will record your calls and play them around the office for their amusement.

                Actually that wasn???t the NAS that as Army which was wrong and the people are being dealt with.


                Unless your name is Hamje, Padillo, or Anderson. Or unless you decided to protest at the GOP convention.

                The reason is that al Muhajir had allegedly been trained by al-Qaeda in Pakistan to build a radiological bomb, and sent to the U.S. to reconnoiter possible targets. He'd been arrested at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on May 8, after having flown in from Zurich under the watchful eyes of FBI agents.
                U.S. officials say that al Muhajir was arrested on tips, with evidence provided by senior al-Qaeda captive Abu Zubaydah corroborated from other sources. His capture was certainly an impressive example of interagency cooperation and preemptive security based on sound intelligence.
                GOP protesters held and release. Very typical with most protesters
                "

                Then you need to read the PATRIOT Act again. Your "papers" (amendment IV) can be searched without warrant, and it is now a federal crime for anyone to tell you it happened.

                Yes. Home searches for all persons on probation or parole, with some exceptions, can be done at any time without a warrant by the appropriate state agency.


                If I can't have my day in court, how can I prove I'm NOT a terrorist? You place entirely too much trust in the government.

                Since habis corpus has not been suspended and I assume you are a US citizen this would be a none issue.

                "5. I kind of liked amendment VIII, too.
                - which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments. Again see #2"

                Yeah, like waterboarding, or being beaten with a 1/2" wire rope. Again, if you aren't allowed access to an attorney, how are you going to show that you aren't what they claim you are?

                I am against torture also it has been proven over and over again that it doesn???t get reasons. But, the amendment you refer to legal system. Enemy combatant should be dealt with under the rules of the Geneva convention even thou the don???t wear a uniform.


                You'd make a fine slave. You already have the correct mindset.
                Keep the insults down and keep this as a discussion between 2 intelligent people with deferring views.

                • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 3:36:06 PM

                  "Actually that wasn???t the NAS that as Army which was wrong and the people are being dealt with."

                  It was the NSA.

                  "The reason is that al Muhajir had allegedly been trained by al-Qaeda in Pakistan to build a radiological bomb, and sent to the U.S. to reconnoiter possible targets. He'd been arrested at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on May 8, after having flown in from Zurich under the watchful eyes of FBI agents.
                  U.S. officials say that al Muhajir was arrested on tips, with evidence provided by senior al-Qaeda captive Abu Zubaydah corroborated from other sources. His capture was certainly an impressive example of interagency cooperation and preemptive security based on sound intelligence."

                  So what? That's what due process is for. You try 'em, convict 'em, and punish 'em. You don't let them sit for years without charges or trial. Stop hating American principles.

                  "GOP protesters held and release. Very typical with most protesters"

                  16 are still being held, on "terrorism" charges.

                  "Yes. Home searches for all persons on probation or parole, with some exceptions, can be done at any time without a warrant by the appropriate state agency."

                  I wasn't referring to home searches, and I wasn't referring to probation or parole.

                  "Since habis corpus has not been suspended and I assume you are a US citizen this would be a none issue. "

                  1. Habeas corpus is simply being illegally ignored.

                  2. The constitution doesn't limit habeas corpus to American citizens, it applies to anyone in US custody. Also, Hamje, Padillo, and Anderson are American citizens.

                  "I am against torture also it has been proven over and over again that it doesn???t get reasons. But, the amendment you refer to legal system. Enemy combatant should be dealt with under the rules of the Geneva convention even thou the don???t wear a uniform."

                  Yes, they should, until a competent tribunal finds otherwise, according to the GC. Many were held for 5 years without such a tribunal, and some still haven't had their tribunal.

                  • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 3:49:44 PM

                    Doc it still goes back to my point earlier. What can't you today that that you couldn't do pre 9/11 as a law abiding citizen that you can't do today?

                    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 4:45:43 PM

                      Exercise my right to peacably assemble, apparently.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 4:18:59 PM

    The Republican Party has long represented those who believe, government should be smaller and less intrusive, and favor states rights. The Democratic Party has supported the position that the government should be bigger and tax and spend in order to assure the American Dream for all. Hence the basic differences we define as Right wing or Left Wing. Americans generally have always staggered around from one extreme to the other. However, this election, we are presented with a candidate that wants to take us for a ride into extreme, extreme leftist territory. This course will alter forever the American Dream, and render it the American Nightmare. Understand the objective well, before you take that step.

    • Posted By: RO in Reno @ 10/24/2008 4:33:17 PM

      Given the fact Bush has increased the size of government 40 % and spent the country into what would be a depression if it were not for the FDIC depositors insurance, your comment and the one above tells me you need a good physiatrist and a very long rest.

      • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 4:39:45 PM

        I don't think Bush has done my party justice in this respect. My party needs reform, and I believe McCain will do that. However, to seek to build an even larger government and increase it's level of intrusiveness, is ridiculous.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 4:43:55 PM

          Your party needs a term or three to get its act together. See you in 2020.

  • Posted By: Jim Bullis @ 10/24/2008 4:38:45 PM

    Part 1
    Fortunately for Obama, the choice of Palin has greatly energized an opposition of moderates who see the possibility of Palin as VP to be unacceptable, even for a moment.

    Rather than pick away at personal flaws it would be better to observe the undisputed actions of the VP candidate.

    A responsible report of the big oil tax situation in Alaska can be seen at:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html

    This report was written Aug. 10, before anyone knew that Palin was going to be the VP nominee.

    From this we can see that Governor Palin imposed a windfall property tax and used it to hand out about $1200 in free money to all persons in Alaska. Her Republican predecessors had already set up a ???oil wealth fund??? system where individuals were given $2000 a year, and they had arranged that most state expenses were paid by taxes on the oil companies. Before Palin the Republicans had already put in place the most generous welfare system in the USA, and maybe in the world. She saw the opportunity to make it even better.

    In the following link it is clear that Sarah Palin is very proud of the above accomplishment:

    http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/434/video-webex.html

    So it seems there is no dispute of the basic facts.

    I suggest that there is a very close parallel between Sarah Palin and Hugo Chavez. Neither sees any problem with changing the deal for oil companies producing from "their" land. In fact, Palin is very proud of "taking on big oil."

    Clearly Palin is skilled in doing popular things. Chavez is also very popular.

    The difference is that Palin is advertised as a conservative and Chavez is called a socialist.

    Palin, McCain, and the Republican party, all seem not to notice these similarities. They shout ???Socialist??? at Obama. Yes, he also has discussed a windfall profits tax, but this was not remotely like the parasitic Alaskan form of Socialism.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 4:07:54 PM

    Obama represents a culture of extreme left wing liberals, with an agenda to reshape the American way of life. He has adopted a Niccolò Machiavelli."The Prince" attitude, justifying any means to achieve the end he desires. His represented positions, with respect to several critical issues, are not consistent with his historical stances, actions, or associations. He is a deceiver of the first class, with a golden mouth with which to fool the people, spewing out what ever will tickle their ears. This man is no patriot, he???s not even un-American, he???s anti-American. Beware Americans, what you see, is not what you???ll get.

  • Posted By: Jack999 @ 10/24/2008 2:27:59 PM

    Local news reporting that campaign worker attack was a hoax. "A Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Ashley Todd confessed to making up the story & is facing charges" Accordinging to Andrew Sullivan: www.kdka.com/local/attack.McCain.Bloomfield.2.847628.html

    Wondering JOE THE PLUMBER aslo another GOP October inplant?
    We all know Joe the plumber ARIZONA registration Driving Licence suspended because he run away from Paying Fines in Arizona.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:43:46 PM

      "Joe the Plumber" is Charles Keating's cousin.

      No joke.

      • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 2:52:59 PM

        Several left-wing blogs have also erroneously misidentifed a totally separate and unrelated ???Joe Wurzelbacher??? in Cincinnati as Joe the Plumber ??? and quietly backtracked after wetting their pants over that find.

        The Keating connection claim has sent the left into conspiratorial frenzy. Joe is a plant! Joe is a liar! Joe is a [profanity] member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy programmed by John McCain!

        Insane.

        Obama dropped in on Wurzelbacher???s neighborhood, not vice versa. And there are plenty of ???close relatives??? in families who have nothing to do with each other, do not speak to each other, and stay away from each other???s politics and business.

        But Team Obama will grasp at any straw to bring this guy down.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:56:06 PM

          Rubbish. "Joe" isn't even his name. His name is Sam...so how would that mistake be made?

          Looks like McCain HASN'T cut off his business with Keating, eh?

          • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 3:20:54 PM

            And Barack The Obama is related to Dick Cheney, one of George Bush???s best friends. Is Obama a plant too???

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 3:29:36 PM

              Naw...Obama is just the better part of the family, you know?

              • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 3:32:56 PM

                Maybe, I like Bush I don't trust Dick. Maybe my distrust of Obama has something to do with the common genes, LoL.

        • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 3:08:14 PM

          Irrelevant. Nobody but the right-wing base actually gives a *** about what Joe the Plumber said to Obama, or vice-versa. There are bigger issues in play. Let's keep our eye on the ball here, folks.

  • Posted By: DaveWK @ 10/24/2008 3:26:36 PM

    It's interesting that one of McCain's latest strategies is to attack Bush, but it's a losing one, given that McCain supported Bush over 90 percent of the time. Another strategy is to attack Obama on positions where McCain himself used to reside. Circulating on the airwaves currently are clips of McCain vigorously defending higher tax rates on earnings over $250,000, and of McCain speaking before and showing support of Acorn community workers. Oops! The new McCain really is condemning the old McCain as a socialist! A who is it who will "say anything?"

  • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/24/2008 12:48:39 PM

    Defending Obama would be best done by arguing what he has said, put forth in policy, and actually done...rather than resorting to criticizing the intentions and/or actions of the other party or candidate. Bush is irrelevent, and I too, won't miss him. But the only desperation I seem to see in these posts is the near blind attack of those who even dare question the candidacy of Obama. It's near cult-like, which, for us independents, really is scarey. Obama Nation will soon control all Congress and the White House...and, if Nancy et. al get her way, nearly all the airwaves as well. Now there's some audacity for you. The audacity that the public really thinks that very political hackery going on in Washington will somehow change under Obama. See you in 4 or 8 years to do this all over again.

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 3:18:27 PM

      Your clearly biased perspective belies any claim you make to being an "independent." What you sound like is a closet conservative who's just hedging his bets. You also sound like a racist - the whole "Obama-nation" slur, one example of many.

      As far as "questioning Obama's candidacy," if what you're actually referring to is the umbrage we take at the smears, lies and insinuations emanating almost exclusively from the McCain camp, wel, then I say "ya, sure, you betcha!"

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:53:11 PM

      It's funny that nobody ever talks about "Bush Nation" or "McCain Nation." Only "Obama Nation." The stink of racism is all over this forum and it should make reasonable people sick to their stomachs.

      • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/24/2008 1:04:17 PM

        That's a phrase arising from his own supporters, including the media who early on spoke of the near religious aspect of his candidacy.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:09:03 PM

          No, it isn't. It was an O'Rielly play on words "Obama Nation" <---> "Abomination".

          • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:47:56 PM

            Well, O'Reilly would certainly know, being an abomination himself.

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:53:36 PM

              Well, yeah. After all, sexually harassing a co-worker concerning a loufa over the phone - while you have an adult toy jammed up your keester - is in fact an abomination. Bill O'Rielly...the (unintentionally) funniest man on TV.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:57:02 PM

      "But the only desperation I seem to see in these posts is the near blind attack of those who even dare question the candidacy of Obama. It's near cult-like, which, for us independents, really is scarey."

      Uh huh. And the GOP posters are angels. Gotcha.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:00:15 PM

    Yes it's a repeat. And, I'll continue to speak the truth, even if you refuse to hear it.
    Obama represents a culture of extreme left wing liberals, with an agenda to reshape the American way of life. He has adopted a Niccolò Machiavelli."The Prince" attitude, justifying any means to achieve the end he desires. His represented positions, with respect to several critical issues, are not consistent with his historical stances, actions, or associations. He is a deceiver of the first class, with a golden mouth with which to fool the people, spewing out what ever will tickle their ears. This man is no patriot, he???s not even UN-American, he???s anti-American. Beware Americans, what you see, is not what you???ll get.

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 3:06:09 PM

      Suit yourself, but we've seen what eight years of right-wing rule has done to the country. No irrelevant rant, regardless of how loudly, or how frequently you run it, will distract the American voters from that one incontrovertible fact. You had your chance, you screwed it up,

      McCain is cut from the same cloth as Bush and is, therefore, culpable in all this fiasco, however vehemently he attempts to distance himself from the current administration..

      He's no "maverick." He's a Republican who occasionally crossed the aisle when it was politically expedient for him to do so. Good on him for trying, but it's not enough to compensate for all the bad decisions and flawed judgements along the way, including most of his maneuvers in this campaign.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:02:26 PM

      "Yes it's a repeat. And, I'll continue to speak the truth, even if you refuse to hear it."

      Translation: You are a spammer, the lowest form of life in a debate.

      • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:06:59 PM

        How could life get any lower than you liberal bottom feeding scum suckers. It doesn't surprise me that your brains haven't developed far enough to grasp the simplest of thoughts.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:18:13 PM

          "How could life get any lower than you liberal bottom feeding scum suckers."

          By being a third-rate spambot. You're getting as bad as NowForTheTruth and (on the left) CIS77. There's no point in even reading your crap, because it's the same crap you posted 10 times already.

          You basically have nothing to say. You just cut and paste the same tired talking points. A bot could do what you do, and do it better.

          • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:24:36 PM

            And you have nothing to say at all, of any substance. Why don't you look into what I have ask you to? Are you to afraid? maybe you'll have to think.

            • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:46:23 PM

              All of the rumors and insinuations you've posted have already been dragged out, and put down, during this campaign. If they had any "legs," then they would have stayed in play. Or are you going to blame the "liberal" media for conspiring to keep such "critical" information secret? Sheesh!

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:29:35 PM

              Why? Because I don't reward spammers by reading their cut and paste crap.

              You have nothing to say.

              • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:36:04 PM

                Blind and happy. You must truely like your existance. What a fool.

                • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:05:50 PM

                  If you actually had any arguments of your own, I'd consider them. However, since all you do is paste reposts of debunked distortions, I see no reason to grant you any credibility at all.

          • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:32:14 PM

            Take a moment, Google this name, Dr. Khalid Abdullah Tario Al-Mansour. Check out the connections. Then, if you can bring yourself to continue to support this guy, I'll argue the substance of the facts. If you fail to inform yourself, I can only pity you.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:35:49 PM

      WHAT IS MORE ANTI-AMERICAN THAN THE LAST 8 YEARS AND WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE TO DESTROY THIS COUNTRY?

  • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:32:08 PM

    To flusher, "Nowforthetruth," apexmech and the rest of the Reactionaries posting here:

    To flusher:

    "Obama is about as far from being a socialist as Joe The Plumber is from being a rocket scientist," said Darrell West, director of governance studies at the Brookings Institution. "I think it's hard for McCain to call Obama a socialist when George Bush is nationalizing banks."

    And this from Bruce Carruthers, a sociology professor at Northwestern University: "Obama is like a center-liberal Democrat, and he is certainly not looking to overthrow capitalism. My goodness, he wouldn't have the support of someone like The Wizard of Omaha, Warren Buffet, if he truly was going to overthrow capitalism."

    • Posted By: RRR in Mpls @ 10/24/2008 12:57:07 PM

      So you found one socialist professor to vouch for Obama's centrist positon-- whoopee! I bet I can find 8 ex IL judges to vouch for their innocence on bribery charges as well! Barack is a pro0duct of his upbringing--period. He was raised around icons like Ayers, Wright and so on and he has been a part of the left wing fundraising (I mean community developers) in his formative years. A regular attendee of the communist party at Harvard and a regular at the pork trough in the Senate for 14 months. That tiger don't shed his stripes, he just has people hanging around to paint him a different color each day.

      You have been drinking the Kool Aid too long if you think this guy is not going to try to socialize and take over America in his own twisted way. He has written and said as much, if not verbatim. Wake up America--Mr Obama is not the Messiah.

      • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:58:42 PM

        Haven't you figured out yet that Americans are just not buying into your whole "guilt by association" paranoia? Would you appreciate being judged based on who you used to know 30 years ago?

        The problem is that you have become so cynical and mistrustful that you automatically assume any Democrat must be lying through his teeth before he even opens his mouth. Operating from that premise, of course you would be incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

        My views have changed radically on a lot of core issues since I was in college. I've also made new friends and disconnected from a lot of old ones. If I ran for office, I would hope, and expect, to be judged based on (a) the initial assumption that I was being honest, and (b) the way I see, and deal with the issues today.

        Sadly, you are unwilling, or unable to weigh Obama in the same balance as you weigh your own party, and therein lies the real tragedy.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:24:35 PM

        Look Congresswoman Bachmann, don't you have a HUAC witch hunt to organize? Aren't you needed up there in St. Cloud to find all of the DFL commies that have you so scared? Aren't you supposed to be slinging mud for Norm Coleman? I know you have some people to scare locally, now that your run for high office is in the tank.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:31:14 PM

          Best part: Even the GOP admits Bachman is toast.

      • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:59:44 PM

        You should keep posting crap about Ayers, etc. That sort of thing has really helped McCain's numbers, after all. LOL.

  • Posted By: RRR in Mpls @ 10/24/2008 12:35:26 PM

    Let's see--redistribution of wealth via "tax credits", take from the rich (raise tax rates and let tax breaks expire) , give to the poor (rebates of other people's tax money), nationalize businesses (take over and run healthcare and insurance companies), ignorance of how wealth is created and why it is necessary to have incentives: if it sounds like a duck, walks likea duck, smells like a duck, then I submit, it is probably a duck.
    These are socialist ideals, even if you do not like to admit it. Russia fell becasue of these ideals, Europe is scaling back tax rates for the businesses that create the jobs and make the workd go and scaling back benefits for the unworking and unwilling to work, even as Obama parades out grandiose spending and increased taxes for our businesses here at home. We ying when Europe yangs. It is time to wake up in the oxygen deprived towers of the liberal media and deal with realtiy. Socialism did not get us where we are at today and will never get us where we need and want to be. It took us 60 years to dump the chicken in every pot fiasco of FDR. We do not need it again.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:48:22 PM

      "Let's see--redistribution of wealth via "tax credits", take from the rich (raise tax rates and let tax breaks expire) , give to the poor (rebates of other people's tax money), nationalize businesses (take over and run healthcare and insurance companies), ignorance of how wealth is created and why it is necessary to have incentives: if it sounds like a duck, walks likea duck, smells like a duck, then I submit, it is probably a duck."

      Of course you realize that McCain fits that description, right?

      • Posted By: rorschach99 @ 10/24/2008 1:11:08 PM

        To some degree all politicians do. There's pandering across the board; it's a question of degree. Let's face it, if a politician says "hey, program X is a socliaist redistribution of wealth, and I'm gonna end it", his/her chances of election are nil. It's simple math. The wealthy are few, people of lower income are many. The few are taxed to give freebies (such as the Earned Income Credit) to the many. The many have more votes than the few. That's why these programs get created, and are essentially impossible to remove once they exist. A lot of people will vote for the guy who promises to take cash from the wealthy and spread it around. Not so many for the guy who wants to let the wealthy keep the money they have.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:22:15 PM

          These days, many of those wealthy people became wealthy through what is basically theft, and stayed wealthy due to the bailout (which McCain also supported). So why should I feel bad for them?

          Also, can you tell me of ANY rich person who ever went broke by actually paying their taxes? Ever?

          • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:53:03 PM

            What's really silly is that Obama has assured the rich that they will ultimately be paying exactly the same taxes they paid under Ronald Reagan. Odd that they're screaming blood murder now, but were strangely complacent with a Republican in the White House. I guess it's all about "conserving" what you have at any cost.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:02:12 PM

    Check out this guy, Dr. Khalid Abdullah Tario Al-Mansour, He is responsible for funding Obama's Harvard years. Ask yourself, why? What association could there be?
    This may well be the " Smoking Gun" to establish this long term radical connection.

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 1:09:43 PM

      You wish. My pediatrician was from Iraq. I guess that makes me a terrorist, as well.

      • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:18:31 PM

        What a ridiculous response

        • Posted By: ThePrairiePrankster @ 10/24/2008 1:24:37 PM

          And you are even a bigger fool.

          • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 1:30:55 PM

            Which one of us? Me or apexmech? Please clarify

            • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:38:50 PM

              It may well be a fools world, very soon. You'll fit right in.

              • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:38:57 PM

                P.S. But take heart, apexmech - there are always small animals to torture, kids to abuse, women to degrade, minorities to victimize, foreigners to fear, snails to pour salt on. You might find an exciting new vocation in our socialist New World Order!

              • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 2:36:27 PM

                You would really hate it if Obama/Biden and a Democratic Congress actually managed to clean up your mess, wouldn't you? No more scapegoats, no more slurs, nobody left to attack. I feel your pain, my reactionary friend :-)

            • Posted By: ThePrairiePrankster @ 10/24/2008 2:05:04 PM

              apexmech

        • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 1:29:43 PM

          Yes, you would see it that way. But apparently it matters to you who Obama "associated" with when he was in elementary school. Using Republican "logic," anyone's associations any time in their lives makes them suspect.

          The only reason McCain's shady alliances have remained mostly unspoken is that Obama understands Americans want answers, not insults. The few times the Obama team has had to dirty its hands in this campaign have been in response to some smear from the Republicans.

          One can only marvel at the hypocrisy when McCain accuses Obama of "saying anything to get elected," when McCain's own campaign is a litany of flip-flops, erratic behaviors, pandering to pretty much every fringe group on the Right and a constant barrage of unsubstantiated lies, rumors and accusations.

          The kind of hate-mongering politics you espouse with your baseless finger-pointing is, thankfully, about to end. You had your shot. You screwed it up. End of story. Time for new leadership. Get used to it.

          • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 2:13:47 PM

            Not to mention McCain s own words that THERE WAS A PLACE IN HELL for people doing this dirty campaign, especially the robotcalls (that was when HE was the target!). Now he has hired the same company that insulted his family and is using it to smear Obama!
            He got his ticket to hell by himself!!!

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:36:56 PM

          I have a Syrian Cardiologist, (American Citizen for 20+ years) a few Persian friens, the Doctor who just did my colonoscopy is from Egypt, and none have ever done anything wrong to anyone. Like most Muslims, they are really decent, God-Fearing people.
          General Powell has said it right, so what if any of us is a Muslim. (I am Orthodox Christian, it does not make me a Russian Commie.) The Republicans have tried to lie to all of the people all of the time for so long that now you could tell me the absolute truth and I would not hear it. Your reputation is destroyed.

    • Posted By: Bass Pro @ 10/24/2008 1:41:44 PM

      Ask yourself if your brain was removed while you slept!

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:29:38 PM

      CHECK PALIN AND THE AIP FOUNDED BY JOE VOGLER AND THEIR AIP FRIENDS..............

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 10:59:55 AM


    If you???re buying Obama's rhetoric, your are simply ignorant of how our economic system works. He is advocating towards Socialism, and that will fail in the end. We need to lower all taxes, especially those that discourage small business. Stop looking for something for nothing.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 11:49:04 AM

      Which small businesses is Obama going to tax?

      • Posted By: rorschach99 @ 10/24/2008 12:30:27 PM

        Well, he'll tax my brother's. He owns several carpet stores. He started with nothing, literally working out of his garage. Our dad was an unemployed alcoholic, so he didn't have a silver spoon in his muoth. After decades of hard work, he got to the point where he has 9 stores. To finance the last round, he mortgaged his house and another of his stores. He assumed significant risk to expand his business. With the down economy, his profit margin is very thin, but his income is above Obama's $250k. If Obama's tax increases pass, he'll be running in the red on 3 new stores, so he's already expecting that he'll have to shut them down and lay off the 12 people working there.

        There are lots of people like my brother out there. You know, $250k sounds like a lot of money. It's a lot more than I make. But businesses that make less than that are almost all single people or mom and pop shops. My brother's business grosses several million a year, but after expenses, salaries for employess, etc, he only clears about $280k. Obama will kill a lot of jobs at small companies.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 12:48:45 PM

          Get a real accountant then, for Christs sake. Roll the money into inventory, labor or some other thing associated with growing the business. It is taking 250k home to sit on that will expose you to taxes, hehehee. Laughably ignorant.
          Hire a professional CPA.
          If you clear 280k and take that home, get ready to pay. The free lunch is over.

          • Posted By: rorschach99 @ 10/24/2008 12:54:59 PM

            Ah. After working 70-100 hours a week for 30 years, it is "laughably ignorant" to want to enjoy a lifestyle that he has earned? And what "free ride"? He already pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in taxes, both corporate and on his personal income.

            The mindset you demonstrate here is one of envy; nothing more and nothing less. He has more than you; the fact that he earned it through hard work, diligence, and assuming risk is irrelevant. You believe that he is not entitled to keep what he wants. And that mindset - one that I think Senator Obama shares with you - WILL kill jobs. My brother will keep his income pretty close to what it is; the people he lays off to keep out of the red will be the ones to suffer. Like I said, these proposed tax increases will kill thousand or millions of jobs when passed. How and why can you be so gleeful about that?

            • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:03:28 PM

              No silly, I have a brilliant accountant, and live well.

              • Posted By: rorschach99 @ 10/24/2008 1:20:45 PM

                So you're not addressing my key argument, about Obama killing jobs. You're just touting your ability to artfully dodge taxes. What's your point, and what does it have to do with the topic of this article and discussion thread?

                • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 2:24:47 PM

                  Oh, and obama has not killed any jobs. In fact, employemnt and incomes generally improve under Democratic Administrations. But hey, you can write your own history too.

                • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 2:17:29 PM

                  Hehheehe as much as you are off topic. And I am not over Obama's 250k. My tax advantage is Service Connected. I still saved my money well and have comfort. I have always paid my taxes, even into Social Security which I can not recieve as a VA annuitant. As for all of those hours worked, I got you beat, and people were trying to kill me, while I was defending the greed and avarice you support.
                  Pay your taxes.
                  It is not envy you went to motive, and wrongly. I was simply telling you that you are wrong with your analogy, as take home pay for any business owner is a choice. You can use the law to avoid any trigger imposed by the new schema. I was just debunking your horsepoo.
                  The IRS reports that the top 5% earners are the ones who under-report income, and cheat on taxes the most. Not a retired GI getting by on a couple grand a month.
                  In our system, if they set a new tax floor you can spend around it. You can hire someone or buy an item to reduce your liability. It's why lots of businesses get new trucks every few years, etc. Ever see how many delivery cars there are outside of pharmacies? They also sell them to employees after a couple of years at steep discount and write that off, and the employes get a 2 year old car with low miles cheap.
                  You must be an ideological Republican with a parrot argument. Here, have a thought cracker.

  • Posted By: AskPlus @ 10/24/2008 2:20:46 PM

    Ms. Todd, as it turns out - did lie:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27350530/
    Now she's in trouble.

    • Posted By: neocon @ 10/24/2008 2:22:35 PM

      Figured as much by just looking at the backwards B.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:25:44 PM

    Come on, get real. This guy Obama, is a Marxist Socialist, groomed by leftist radicals in Chicago, to take this country down the road they have been advocating for years. He was tested and vetted in his role as a ???Community Organizer in the eighties, was found to be a gifted, charismatic and intelligent person. From that point on he has been nurtured, educated and groomed, to be the person we see before us today. His agenda is the same as Wrights, Ayers and Farrakhan. His political rhetoric is a smoke screen, to cover the true mission.
    I implore all Americans, of any race, of any color or creed, to look deeper into who this person is.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 2:15:58 PM

      Check on Palin and the AIP and Joe Vogler...............

  • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 2:05:40 PM

    Latest Republican Stunt: PITTSBURGH - A John McCain volunteer in Pittsburgh who said she was robbed and sexually assaulted because of her political views has admitted to fabricating the story, police sources told a TV station.

    KDKA TV added that one source said Ashley Todd would face charges.

    Police have not formally announced the fabrication, acknowledging only that detectives in the case were meeting with the force's public information officers.
    Todd, of College Station, Texas, earlier agreed to take a polygraph test due to inconsistencies.

    Among other things, police said photos and bank card information from an automated teller machine where the college student claimed she was robbed do not show her using the machine at the time, police said.

    Police said the Todd, who is white, told them she was attacked by a 6-foot-4 black man Wednesday night.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:09:22 PM

      Saw this one coming. The silly kid carved the "B" into her own face using a mirror...so that it was backwards.

      Too funny, and also too typical of the right, at least in this election.

  • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:28:23 PM

    The desperation of the right-wing is apparent here, and it's pathetic. Who in hell are they to accuse Obama of "saying anything to get elected," after running one of the filthiest smear campaigns in recent memory.

    What a bunch of hypocrites. Thank God their time is ending. Thanks for the last eight years. Hopefully, President Obama with a Democratic Congress will be able to start putting the pieces back together.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:31:30 PM

      They are desperate. Their side has failed miserably, and they know it.

      The GOP could use a term or three in the wilderness, so to speak. And it looks like they're going to get just that.

      • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:40:21 PM

        Right on. One definition of insanity is to perform the same process over and over again, and hope for a different result. Voters should bear that in mind if they're considering putting another right-winger into the White House.

        Perhaps there are delusional moderates who have managed to overlook or ignore the gutless personal smears, hypocritical accusations, closet racism and fear-mongering being perpetrated by the Republican party. All of that notwithstanding, they need only look at the dismal performance of the Republicans in power over the last eight years to realize it would be idiocy to put another one in the White House. It ain't rocket science.

        And don't even get me started about Palin!

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:21:32 PM

          Palin is completely scary. The Dr. Dobson wing of evangelical bigots demanded McCain pick someone of their brand and it got him tossed under his own straight-talk bus. She is now openly back-stabbing him for the 2012 run. It's funny how R's treat R's. What is disgusting is how they treat our laws.

          • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:32:19 PM

            I hope she does run in 2012. The dems could run the ghost of Hubert Humphrey, and still kick her ass.

            • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 2:00:11 PM

              Roger that Sir.

              • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 2:07:23 PM

                "Sir"? Ouch! What did I do to your family? LOL.

                I was just a lowly NCO, not the brass.

      • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:14:57 PM

        iF I WOULD HAVE VOTED TWICE FOR BUSH I WOULD BE IN SHAME AND IN SILENCE..............

  • Posted By: Trey9128 @ 10/24/2008 12:21:46 PM

    "FOR THAT REASON I ADVOCATE FOR THE POOR, FOR THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN THAT CHANCE TO SUCCEED BECAUSE ALL THE TAXES GO TO THE RICHEST. IN THE LAST 30 YEARS (MOSTLY REPUBLICAN ??? ONLY 8 DEMOCRAT ADMINISTRATION AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE WITH CLINTON) 600 BILLIONS HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED FROM THE POOR TO THE RICH TAX-WIDE, WHERE IS FAIRNESS?"

    The problem with the Obama tax plan is that it doesn't address the problem (as you see it) at all...

    Imagine two taxpayers. Taxpayer A inherits 5 million dollars from a rich uncle, and decides to stop working and live off of his investments, which net him $300,000 per year. Taxpayer B goes into hock building a small business, creating jobs by employing others, and works 80 hours a week for years before finally having a good year and netting $300,000.

    Under Obama, Taxpayer A would pay slightly more in income taxes, as capital gains would go from 15 to 20%. Taxpayer B would pay the top incremental rate of 39.6% on every additional dollar earned. He would also pay the now uncapped Social Security tax (doubled because he's self employed). And of course, state and local income taxes on top of that.

    So Obama is saying that if you are one of the idle rich, you'll pay 20% of your income in taxes. If you work your butt off working and employing others, you could well pay more than half your income in taxes. Yep, that's socialism alright.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 2:05:14 PM

      EMust add, socialism is what republicans have done now with the bank............

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 2:04:19 PM

      Well cindy McCain paid last year 28% of of her 4.2 million income and anyone in the 200K is in the 33% -36% rate. Do me that math, and who is benefiting of the voodoo economics of the Bushes...
      Why the professional that is working so hard is paying more than certain other people?
      Americans are seeing the light now, see the polls.............

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