History of the ‘S’ Bomb

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  • Posted By: austin c @ 10/24/2008 11:20:49 AM

    The subprime mortgage loans , started after Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), is an important step of social welfare promoted more strongly by the Dem. party than the Rep. party. The subprime loan is a sort of strong government intervention which is contrary to common bank practice on loans. As we see it today, the outcome of the reckless subprime mortgage loans, amount to trillion dollars toxic loans to financial institution worldwide, appears to be more damaging than the socialism system elsewhere.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:57:58 PM


      THE PROBLEM WAS DE REGULATION!
      De regulations started with the KEATING FIVE and McCain. And flourished with Reagan...
      McCain supported Bush 90% of the time and now SUDDENLY he is different?


      IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CRA, THEN READ:
      The GOP claims that the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) loans were a major part of the current financial mess is a SLEAZY and RACIST propaganda campaign to redirect blame for GOP failures.

      Below is an excerpt from the Federal Reserve Board study of the impact of CRA loans which constituted approximately 10% of the loans of participating CRA approved banks.
      ________________________________________
      Title: Survey of the Performance and Profitability of CRA-Related Lending :

      Section 713 of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 (Public Law 106-102) directs the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to study and report to the Congress on the default rates, delinquency rates, and profitability of lending activities undertaken in conformance with the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 (CRA). The Board was directed to make the report and supporting data available to the public.
      The Board asked the 500 largest retail banking organizations to voluntarily complete a comprehensive survey focusing on their CRA-related lending activities and prepared a report summarizing survey responses. (updated Sept 2002)
      Summary:

      Whether measured on a per institution or per CRA dollar basis, virtually all banking
      institutions providing responses, regardless of asset-size category, report that their CRA-related small business lending is either profitable or marginally profitable (figures 5 and 6). In addition, most respondents report that the profitability of CRA-related and other small business lending is about the same. There is also relatively little evidence that performance differs systematically between CRA-related and overall small business lending.

      http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/surveys/craloansurvey/

      With deregulation the subprime lenders descended on minority communities like locusts charging a combination of origination and overage fees totaling as high as 15% of the loan amounts ??? legalized rape ??? when compared with traditional fees of 1 ??? 1.25%.

      Minorities seeking a better life for their children away from gang violence, drugs, bad schools, etc. were easy targets.

      The Cheney/Bush administration simply put the foxes in charge of the chickenhouses and then went on vacation for 8 years.

      The Federal Reserve study concludes that lenders who followed traditional guidelines for lending in these markets did not have a problem.





    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 11:47:06 AM

      You "conservatives" are just full of excuses, aren't you?

  • Posted By: Jack999 @ 10/24/2008 1:44:57 PM

    Behind the Fall of USA Economy:

    Administration Reason

    Recent months have seen a torrent of troubling economic news, and last week was no exception. The continuing sub-prime mortgage crisis pushed one of America's largest investment banks to the brink of insolvency, saved only by a government-facilitated buyout. ? This what they???re trying to imply .

    Fannie and Freddie made loans for unqualified poor people (I can???t definitely buy this as a fact). But your conclusion, that this was the main reason for the subprime mortgage crisis to unfold?.

    What about to Digest This

    Does this policy for the Wealthy using this flaws by letting themselves to owns the 5,6,7,8,9,10,20 houses or maybe building?Since the Weathy aslo getting the most benefit in huge TAX credits,Does this Capitalism ways for the rich making money, which that demands in market when things are good, Does that contributes the phony house prices up?

    This a major conclusion that caused this financial problems in first place not the poor American, that caused the subprime mortgage crisis to unfold, when you even offered them the plus with FIX the interest rate loan flat,which means very particuliarly attractive for the wealthy capitalism.

    Republican capitalism does not hold to a simple math scrutiny.

    By the right conscience of the Government should provides the opportunity evenly for ALL American to achive their own Dreams????

    By introduce only for the FIRST TIME to be a proud homeowners?

    A place they can called ???Home??? by offering them the affordable price or maybe subsidised some of the loans.Does this a ???SIN??? for the government to provides for the first timer unqualified poor American a easier loan to let them his owned home????

    How many subprime mortgages are out there? I read that about 1 million people were to go through foreclosure this year. Let???s be generous and say that 2 million people will foreclosure this year due to subprime mortgage. Median price on a house is $250,000. Let???s say that it???s $2,000.00 per month mortgage payments. So, 2 million X $2,000.00 is $4 billion a month. So you are trying to say that entire world economy is collapsed because some poor people couldnt pay 4 billion a months. Bill Gates single handedly could handle this bill for a year.

    Rushs and Joe???s logic does not hold the water. Give me the break for this All Republican political motivated economical lies policy.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:00:57 PM

    . Obama was selected, nourished and groomed by the extreme left wing radicals in Chicago; Ayers, Farrakhan, Jackson, Flager, and the not so reverend Wright, and a host of others. To these people, he is the prince and is now fulfilling their dreams. His action and attitudes, exemplifies this.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:42:15 PM

      YOU CAN REPEAT IT ALL YOU WANT, IT DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.............

  • Posted By: Bass Pro @ 10/24/2008 1:37:57 PM

    In my home State of Florida early voting is expected to make up 50% of the total vote. A candidate trailing in the polls will have a near impossible chance to make it up.

    For example if Senator Obama led McCain by +10 Points and the polls were taken after a substantial early vote the lead in the poll would actually increase up to +20.

    Is it possible McCain has anything left in his nasty bag of lies and distortions that could do the trick?

    Not based on his last round of attacks which netted Senator Obama the endorsements of colin Powell and a distinguished list of Republicans including the relatives of the late Senator from ARIZONA Barry Goldwater!

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:01:35 PM

    The connections all fit the pattern. The actions all fit the pattern. This guy is exactly what he has been groomed to be under the tutelage of Ayers, Farrakhan, Wright, and others. His true purpose; deceive the American public by a "change" rhetoric that morphs into what ever is politically expedient. He has been tremendously successful at persuading the far left wing of the Democratic Party, into believing that he is simply liberal like them. With this support and the very negative feelings with respect to the Bush administration, a large faction of voters, has had the wool pulled over their eyes. Fact is he is a radical with a secret agenda that is bent on the destruction of virtually all the values most Americans hold very dear. If elected, the destruction he will level on our democracy will be greater then ten thousand of Mr. Ayer???s bombs, wreak more havoc that ten million of Mr. Farrakhan???s militant Black Muslims, and loose a demonic force greater than even Mr. Wright might imagine.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:34:42 PM

      FEAR MONGERING WILL NOT WORK, SEE THE POLLS, IT IS BACKFIRING YOU....
      PEOPLE CAN READ AND ABOVE ALL HAVE LIVED THE EXPERIENCE OF REPUBLICANS ADMINISTRATION AND SAID: ENOUGH!!!!!

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 1:23:44 PM

      You really need to get back on your meds. Just because you see a conspiracy under every rock and around every corner does not mean they actually exist. You're obviously terrified we will elect a Black President so why not just call it what it is.

      Obama is no more a socialist or a "radical Black Muslim" than you are a Democrat (now, there's an analogy I'll bet you can work with!). He is running on the same core Democratic issues that have always existed.

      McCain isn't the first Republican who has found himself in a losing race and decides to sling the "socialist" label. Republicans always label anyone whose philosophy supports the middle class and refuses to reward the rich for being greedy and corrupt a "socialist." That label is no longer credible coming from the Right wing. Especially in light of what's going on with the current Administration.

      Face it: your party has had eight years to pull it together. You virtually owned both the Executive and Legislative branches for the first six. You dropped the ball in a big way, and now we're all paying for it.

      It doesn't take a nuclear (or, as Bush and Palin would say, "nucular") physicist to realize that electing another Bush lackey would be to throw good money after bad.

      I, for one, will be thrilled just to have someone in the White House with an IQ in triple digits!

  • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:12:53 PM

    apexmech: And you are a simpleminded, racist, xenophobic moron.

    • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 12:19:16 PM

      Enter Your Comment
      And your an idiot

      • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:29:31 PM

        "You're", not "your", genius.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:15:24 PM

          New business opportunity, Flash Cards for Republicans, with complex spelling words like; Defeat, Minority Party, Bigot, Fearmonger, Fascist, Racist, Liar, Tax Cheat, Lapel-Pin-Patriot, Neo-Con...

          • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:34:24 PM

            Don't fortget phrase books with all the newest terms:

            Joe the Plumber, yada yada yada.
            Socialism is only bad if the other guy does it.
            AYERS! AYYYYERS! AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYERS!

            Etc.

  • Posted By: RRR in Mpls @ 10/24/2008 12:39:54 PM

    That's the best you can come up with? "Spammer?" What the h does that mean? Let me guess, you are on the NYT editorial board, right?

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:47:33 PM

      A "spammer" is a person who cuts and pastes the same thing over and over again (as Apexmech does).

      You must be new to the internet.

      • Posted By: RRR in Mpls @ 10/24/2008 1:05:40 PM

        Doc Howl-your propensity for one liners not withstanding, calling people names is highly indicative of intellectual vacancy. Reviewing all the comments you have made, not one factoid or shred of eveidence is presented. Your opinions go unsubstantiated and unaddressed, while you demean and belittle anyone who offers logic and rationale by some figurative name you can concoct or borrow. Doc Howl, you are the worst kind of spammer, you are afraid to argue merits and repeat unsubstantiated claims at the same time you call people names to cover your own ineptitude in debating ideas in a civil forum. Go back under your rock and mold please. Open the floor up to honest intellectual debate. You are not fit to sweep our floors.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:29:37 PM

          No, a spammer my Republican is a person who makes the same baseless attempts with the same discredited information usually in a cut and paste...
          I know you feel threatened by a style guide or editorial skills.
          No sweat. You'll hopefully have years to practice rhetoric, forensics, logic, grammar, debate, civics, and other social skills with your off-time. I feel a gross power outage on the far-right.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:14:32 PM

          "Doc Howl, you are the worst kind of spammer"

          Please point out any spam. You can't. You're a liar.

          Integrity. Get some.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 1:13:36 PM

          "Doc Howl-your propensity for one liners not withstanding, calling people names is highly indicative of intellectual vacancy."

          I call 'em like I see 'em. ApexMech has ADMITTED to spamming, and has posted the exact same posts over and over again all the way through this comments section.

          Deal with it. Besides, I didn't notice you calling Apex out on calling Acoustic an idiot multiple times. Your partisanship is showing...which is to say, you have no credibility on the subject. Sorry.

  • Posted By: ThePrairiePrankster @ 10/24/2008 1:24:00 PM

    Actually, it is George W. Bush, Henry Paulson and all borrow and spend Republicans and tax and spend Democrats who are Socialists. McCain is just another comrade. Obama too, selling out to Banks and the top 1%.

    Joe the Plumber's business is allowed to fail, but capitalism for the money changers is not allowed. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses is the motto of the traitors who run our banks and government, that's the sad state of America today. No one is held responsible, they just punt it and are fine with letting our children and grand-children inherit the mess. Profiles in courage -- NOT!

  • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 11:21:41 AM

    I would like to give a simple example:
    You are a parent with 5 children. You have set some money aside for each of them. Would you take money from 4 of them and give it to ONE privileged one so he can have education, businesses, houses, boats, vacations, luxury life while your 4 other children will be with no education, no healthcare, no home, no money, no future?
    What kind of parent would that be? They trusted you to manage their finance and you distributed behind their back it in a VERY UNFAIR way benefiting only ONE OUT OF FIVE!

    Well the role of the government is to treat all the children of this great nation equally and with fairness and not benefiting the top 5% and forgetting the other 95%.........

    That s what republican have done ALWAYS and this time BUSH HAS DONE WORST that EVER. That s why we need a real CHANGE of this trickle down economic approach and McCain can now criticize Bush for political gain. Everyone knows his economy policies ARE THE SAME, his economy advisor and possible Treasure Secretary said we had a Mental recession and we were a bunch of whiners!
    What economic plan has McCain different than Bush s? THE SAME ONE!

    We need a CHANGE that is more than a borrowed SLOGAN!!!!

    • Posted By: theCelestrian @ 10/24/2008 11:33:29 AM

      Uh oh...looks like another round in the "let's use a bad analogy" game:

      1. As a parent, of course you're going to not waste resources on things that will turn out to be a waste. I don't know of many parents who are going to send both their genius child and their child who habitually does poorly in school and doesn't show the same level of aptitude to an IV league school.

      2. "No education, no home, no money, no future?" - Really? So now we're comparing full reasoning adults to children that are incapable of taking care of themselves?

      ....OH! I see what you did here! Perhaps you mean that *American Adults* are really like..... *children*.... incapable to taking care of, or making well-informed, reasoned decisions for themselves. So therefore, Government (the State) is needed to ensure that those "children" don't hurt themselves or starve, because they have no desire or ability to "grow up"

      right?

      Let's make the anology a little better:

      You have three kids: One of them goes out every weekend and does chores for neighbors. She's very ambitious, and will work longer and harder than her two brothers. Her two brothers still work, but they (because for whatever reason they just can't do the chores as well or as quickly) only can earn a fraction of the allowance that their sister can.

      ...So if I understand your reasoning correctly, it would be "VERY UNFAIR" to now allow your daughter to actually keep what she earned, so it would be "VERY FAIR" to then take all of their earnings, mix it around, and give each of those kids an "equal" portion of the pot.

      ...so the can have education, homes, money and a future.

      Brilliant.

      • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:25:51 PM

        YOU LOOK LIKE McCAIN, PALIN, JOE THE PLUMBER.....TWISTING WORDS, THAT S ALL THAT YOU ARE GOOD AT!
        I SAID ONE CAN T BENEFIT ONE GROUP AND NOT THE OTHER, ONE CAN NOT GIVE ALL THE MONEY TO ONE GROUP AND NOT THE OTHER....
        THAT S WHAT BUSH HAS DONE AND WHAT McCAIN WILL CONTINUE DOING.
        YOU ALL THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WORK AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE SITTING THERE WAITING FOR A HANDOUT, YOU ARE EITHER ILLITERATE OR BLIND!

        WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE IS WRONG, GIVING ALL TAXES TO THE RICHEST IS WRONG, GIVING CORPORATE WELFARE TO THE WEALTHIEST IS WRONG, WHILE SQUEEZING THE MIDDLE CLASS. YOU CAN TRY TO TWIST ALL YOU WANT, AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO SEE THE TRUTH..............

        IF I WERE YOU I WOULD KEEP SILENT AND SOUL SEARCHING FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THE DEATH OF THOUSAND OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.....

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 11:19:35 AM

    Obama was selected, nourished and groomed by the extreme left wing radicals in Chicago; Ayers, Farrakhan, Jackson, Flager, and the not so reverend Wright, and a host of others. To these people, he is the prince and is now fulfilling their dreams. His action and attitudes, exemplifies this. My reference to Obama as the little prince, was a play on the title The Prince. He in my mind is a ???little??? prince. He was selected, nourished and groomed by the extreme left wing radicals in Chicago. To these people, he is the prince and is now fulfilling their dreams. His action and attitudes, exemplifies this.
    Check out this guy, Dr. Khalid Abdullah Tario Al-Mansour, He is responsible for funding Obama's Harvard years. Ask yourself, why? What association could there be?
    This may well be the " Smoking Gun" to establish this long term radical connection.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 11:47:47 AM

      The Mansour/Obama connection has been debunked.

      But you knew that.

      • Posted By: 2cents @ 10/24/2008 1:20:33 PM

        It doesn't matter what is and is not true to these guys. They make decisions based on what fits into their pre-concieved notions about the world. They don't fact check, except to ask other nuts if it's true. It's gonna be a guy like apexmech who tries to assasinate Obama. He'll think he's protecting America. These nuts are going to start a civil war. It will be the educated moderate "elites" vs. the suspicious, racist, paranoid nuts. It'll be the end of America no matter who wins.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 12:22:20 PM

    Obama simply is not being honest with the American public. He is willing to say, do or vomit anything, in order to get elected.

    His real agenda, can be found by researching his past associations for the last twenty five years.
    He is a product of a radical left wing agenda, much further left than most people know. Spend some time and check it out. Don't be fooled, to much is at stake.

    • Posted By: americandefender @ 10/24/2008 12:25:32 PM

      Too much is at stake to allow scum like you to outright lie and spew hatred, did something happen in your past involving a black man?

      • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 12:27:48 PM

        Not in my past, but possibly in my future.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:18:34 PM

          Ohhhh so you plan on doing violent things. Promise me you'll conspire to do them and take more down with you. Make it at least a Federal Offense. Threaten a candidate for high office.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 1:16:33 PM

    that al-Mansour may have been a ???political godfather??? for Obama, responsible for promoting his entry to Harvard Law School and launching Obama???s political career by engineering his first autobiography, ???Dreams From My Father.???
    This is the smoking gun. Consider tyhe implications. Why would this Arab supporter of Hamas, fund a guy he didn't even know? On who's request? Find out. Don't be stupid.

  • Posted By: Lynn in Florida @ 10/24/2008 12:47:03 PM

    For all of you who are frantically throwing the Socialist word around - What do you think has been going on for the last eight years? Our tax dollars were given to Republican Corporate Partners by way of no bid contracts and huge payouts. The last eight years have seen a re-distribution of wealth on a grand scale. Just because it was the favored mega wealthy that were on the receiving end of the hand-outs makes it no less a redistribution of wealth. I guess it is only socialisim if it's the lower income producing citizens that get a piece of the pie. When fear, hate mongering, intolerance, swift-boating your opponent, and Sarah Palin became the new face of the Republican Party I said (wink-wink) THANKS! BUT NO THANKS TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY and took my vote back and gave it to Obama/Biden for President of the United States.

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 1:02:06 PM

      Well said, Lynn. The Republican campaign has drowned itself in hypocrisy. I've lived through a lot of elections in my 56 years and I've never experienced one this dirty. The only talent the right-wing seems to have is finding new, and more reprehensible ways of smearing their opponents. Which makes sense, considering they can't very well stand on their record.

      • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 1:12:33 PM

        COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH BOTH OF YOU.
        IT IS TIME FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO SHOW HOW THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE GOVERNED FOR ALL AMERICANS, NOT THE FEW............

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 11:48:02 AM


    Why would Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Black ( can???t say the M word here ) movement, admonish his young disciples to listen to Obama, because he is their Messiah? He must know the true intent of Obama???s heart hatred of Zionist and of Israel. Yet, the Obama campaign would tell us he is a friend to Israel. All these associates of Obama???s from Chicago, Ayers, Farrakhan, Wright, Jesse Jackson, they all seem to know a different Obama. Most all these people have known him for more than fifteen years. Did he fool them, or is he trying to fool you?

    • Posted By: eclipx @ 10/24/2008 12:05:21 PM

      Apexmach, please try to step out of the 1800's and grow up with the rest of the human race. About 60% of us are really trying hard to evolve socially and intellectually and you are holding the entire race back. I'm thinking a rounded education might do something to assist you in that endeavor. I'm sorry your parents didn't raise you better, but you can make up the difference by putting your "training" aside and realizing that everything you say is only because you are frustrated and angry and have chosen to ignore what the real problems are redirecting that frustration and anger into a hate of the races. Chill out.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:11:57 PM

        Glen Beck, Rush, and his other idols have taught him all he needs to know.

      • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/24/2008 12:27:00 PM

        The motivations, wants, and needs of people have "evolved" little if anyting since man began taking pen to paper. Many of us, including Mr. Shakespeare, long ago accepted that notion. How refreshing it would be to one day see the "progressive-liberals" of the world accept this basic premise as well. Please, stop trying to "evolve" us by government mandate.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:34:05 PM

          *shrug*

          It's how we finally ended segregation.

    • Posted By: americandefender @ 10/24/2008 11:53:12 AM

      I will bet that you have no friends that of a different race or color ,beacouse by your rantings we know you hate muslims and black people what about the hispanics do you hate them as well?

      • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 12:05:27 PM

        I implore all Americans, of any race, of any color or creed, to look deeper into who this person is.
        I have many friends of many races and creeds. I am not a bigot. I am however, greatly concerned about the deception that this man is trying to pull over the eyes of my countrymen. I will stand against this fraud and not back down.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:10:41 PM

          Are you one of the people comitting election violence down here in the South? How much of that "I won't back down" are you doing? Have you beaten anyone today? Planning any violence?

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:21:04 PM

          " I am not a bigot."

          Tell us another one.

  • Posted By: 2cents @ 10/24/2008 11:45:15 AM

    I'm definitely not old enough, but I know some history. All of the haters on this thread sound exactly like the people who attacked FDR in the 30's. While elements of his New Deal were contraversial, without many of these programs millions of people would???ve gone jobless, homeless, and hungry. FDR created anti-trust laws that actually spurred competition. He created the social security system that today that millions of Americans need for retirement. He created public works projects to keep the country working and gave people a sense of self respect.

    Obama's plans are hardly taken from the New Deal. FDR was ten times the socialist Obama is, but it took someone like FDR to pull the country out of the Great Depression. It can be argued that WWII pulled us out due to the demand in manufacturing that followed. However if our gov't did nothing during the depression, our workforce and our manufacturing sector would have been in such shambles as to render our ability to build impotent. God only knows how we would have faired in the war.

    Obama doesn???t even come close to these measures. Our gov't needs money to provide the basic services that we all depend on: Infrastructure, medicaid, social security, police, military, science, and yes even welfare and food stamps programs. How do you expect to pay for those things without taxes? There must be taxes. The only question is where does it come from? Should we tax the poor? They don't have any money. Should we tax the rich? They do. It kind of answers itself.

    We???re in a financial situation that isn???t normal. It was created by unregulated capitalism and boom-or-bust policies. We took away all of the traffic lights to make traffic flow smoother - now we have pile ups! Well it can't be business as usual on the highways when there are pile ups. So please stop your whining. These gov't interventions have happened several times in our history and they???re always short lived. The purpose is to put the train back on the tracts because once derailed a train can't right itself. Neither can our economy get itself back on track without intervention.

    This is a moot point anyway since both candidates and Bush support the bailout package and the purchasing of shares in order to inject capital into the banking sectors. Are they all socialists? Now McCain is proposing that the gov't buy up bad mortgages to keep people in their homes. Socialism. Obama is no socialist. He favors job creation while providing assistance to people in desperate need. If my wife gets cancer then we have file bankruptcy and she will probably die from lack of treatment. How will capitalism alter that situation? And it happens every day to thousands of hard working plumbers named Joe. Obama simply wants to find a solution to that. And for that you call him a socialist?!

    Please tell me how to fix the problems. Show me your solutions. Show me where the money will come from. Give me the scenarios that you think are possible.

    I didn't thi

    • Posted By: Rob the Conservative @ 10/24/2008 12:03:26 PM

      I suggest you read Adam Lerrick's article in Wednesday's (10/22/08) WSJ titled "Obama and The Tax Tipping Point." When 50% plus epsilon of the electorate realized that they can vote themselves benefits for which they do not have to pay, the system begins to break down.

      With respect to FDR and social security, the social security system is bankrupt in an actuarial sense. I will collect my social security but I seriously doubt that my children will collect theirs, though they will pay for mine. Had all my contributions gone into an S&P 500 index fund, I would be enormously better off today, even with the recent decline in financial markets. Furthermore, this is a regressive tax on poor people because they pay into the system yet have shorter life expectancies and cannot leave their contributions to their heirs.

      What conservatives are calling for is a return to personal responsibility--show up for school, pay attention, do the homework, learn to speak and write polished English, become numerate, get a job, live within your means, do not sign documents (e.g., mortgages) that you do not understand, be an informed, responsible citizen and do not expect the government to take care of you. You are guaranteed the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There is no guarantee you will catch it.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:08:57 PM

        What conservatives want? You have had it for 20+ years. It has crashed. You have had virtual control of everything. It is in the heap now. As for any of the rest of it, I just get turned off at conservative, when fascism is what has gone on.

      • Posted By: 2cents @ 10/24/2008 12:59:41 PM

        Yes it is true about social security, but those are FDR's programs. The main point is that Obama is not even close to proposing these kinds of measures. Yet poeple are running around shouting socialist like the sky is falling. All that you have to go on are rumors. The fact is that most in our government including both candidates have already signed off on the biggest socialist intervention by our government since the great depression. McCain supports the government buying bad mortgages - if that's not socialism then I don't know the meaning of the word. Obama has been talking about creating wealth to give everyone a chance at a piece of the pie. That's what the "spread the wealth" comment was about if you actually listen to the whole conversation. Financial conservatism is fine, but when it goes too far and crashes, gov't intervention is necessary. But again, all candidates support this, so I'm not sure why Obama is singled out for the socialist. Except that it has something to do with creating an ora of otherness by repubs.

        It all comes down to what you think is more important. That large companies preserve some money for shareholders down the road through tax breaks and incentives, or that in the meantime millions of people are protected from bankruptcy and homelessness. These large companies have been sending jobs overseas despite tax breaks, so it seems to me that manipulating taxes for corporations won't fix the problem. But people need to put food on their tables and they could certainly use the relief. That relief will be spent right here in our economy. So it doesn't matter how much money companies can save through taxes if there is nobody to buy their products they will still fail. Look at the consumer spending numbers, look at the cost of living numbers, look at how flat wages and salaries have been. People need money. Tax breaks to middle income families is the best compromise for both businesses and families.

        Tax breaks for companies will not bring down prices. There is no gaurauntee for that. Just look at oil. Record profits where kept by the companies, which still got tax breaks. Did they pass this savings on to the consumers - no. Did they higher more workers, did they give raises to the ordinary workers - no. The execs got the raises. Let consumers keep more of their money and let the execs take pay cuts if they want their businesses to be profitable.

        Both McCain and Obama have been calling for personal responsibility, conservatives haven't cornered the market on that. However, it was this kind of personal responsibility that got Wall Street in trouble. We took away all of the regulations and thought that banks would simply protect their investors through responsible practices. This has been a nightmare. They got greedy and now have lost everything. So too have the people who took those bad loans. None of this would have happened if the gov't left all of those "restrictive" p

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 11:39:01 AM

    Rarely if ever have I agreed with either Bill or Hillary Clinton, on any mater of politics. However, I have never had cause to question their American values, or their patriotism. Obama is quite different. He represents a culture of extreme left wing liberals, with an agenda to reshape the American way of life. He has adopted a Niccolò Machiavelli."The Prince" attitude, justifying any means to achieve the end he desires. His represented positions, with respect to several critical issues, are not consistent with his historical stances, actions, or associations. He is a deceiver of the first class, with a golden mouth with which to fool the people, spewing out what ever will tickle their ears. This man is no patriot, he???s not even un-American, he???s anti-American. Beware Americans, what you see, is not what you???ll get.

    • Posted By: 2cents @ 10/24/2008 1:06:27 PM

      Obama is anything but an extreme left wing liberal. Most dems in congress have been upset with him in the past for not being liberal enough. The fact is he is more of a centrist and a moderate than anything else. But I guess when you're that far to the right anyone left of Nazi is a hippy to you.

    • Posted By: americandefender @ 10/24/2008 11:45:55 AM

      You are the Anti-american and believe we can see right through your disguise you are full of hate and venom.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 11:43:42 AM

      You guys have had your chance. You had complete control of the government for 5 years, and you failed.

  • Posted By: apexmech @ 10/24/2008 10:45:58 AM

    Come on, get real. This guy Obama, is a Marxist Socialist, groomed by leftist radicals in Chicago, to take this country down the road they have been advocating for years. He was tested and vetted in his role as a ???Community Organizer in the eighties, was found to be a gifted, charismatic and intelligent person. From that point on he has been nurtured, educated and groomed, to be the person we see before us today. His agenda is the same as Wrights, Ayers and Farrakhan. His political rhetoric is a smoke screen, to cover the true mission.
    I implore all Americans, of any race, of any color or creed, to look deeper into who this person is.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 1:02:03 PM

      Oh I have looked at Obama. I have also seen enough of you.
      You are a semi-literate bigot.
      I would much rather accept someone to the left of me, than anyone who would be recommended by you. You are actually destroying Mr. McCain's chances, one post at a time. Carry on.

  • Posted By: lisame197 @ 10/24/2008 10:42:01 AM

    I would like to first state, that those of you who are supporting Obama need to read his book. His memoirs. In this book he released, he discusses his youth. He discusses his college years. In this book, he discusses how he was always drawn towards Marxism and those who supported the idea of Marxism. If you read the book, you can see for yourself his beliefs when it comes to socialistic ideas and Marxist ideas. Now, if Obama has himself, said he has always been drawn to these ideas, why is it then an insult to Obama or an insult to you as his supporter to say his policies are Socialistic? You should embrace that term..because the person you have decided to support, embraces the ideas behind what that "S" word means. It is not an insult or offensive if it is what you believe. Many countries are Socialistic in the way they run their government and manage their money. They are not ashamed of this. You should not be ashamed of it, you should not be insulted by this. You should embrace this word, because it is what you have decided to believe and support. In keeping up with this politically correct world we live in, you should say yes, I am a person who believes in socialist principles and I am proud of it and you should accept me for it. Typically, you are only insulted by something you feel is a negative or bad term or name. If you think that socialistic policies or socialism is bad or negative, then perhaps you need to study your beliefs a little better, study your candidates a little better and then adjust the way you will vote. Think about it...if Obama has stated in his own book that he has always been drawn towards those principles and beliefs, then he is not ashamed of being called a socialist or someone who embraces policies that are socialistic. Why would you?

    • Posted By: Braes @ 10/24/2008 12:59:41 PM

      All I needed to know in this election was McCain's choice of Schunemann as a foreign policy leader, and his remark about there being more wars coming.
      Sorry, no thanks.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 11:07:15 AM

      lets listen to what McCain says about becoming president???.
      On page 373 of John McCain's 2002 memoir Worth the Fighting For, you'll find the following quote:
      "I didn't decide to run for President to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be President because it had become my ambition to be President. I was sixty-two years old when I made the decision and I thought it was my one shot at the prize."
      ^ a b McCain, John; Salter, Mark (2002). Worth the Fighting For. New York: Random House. ISBN 0-375-50542-3. p. 373.

    • Posted By: Democrat-Hillary @ 10/24/2008 11:06:17 AM

      Read as well........

      McCAIN:
      Rolling Stone Magazine: Make believe Maverick, A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty.
      By TIM DICKINSON
      http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain?commentPage=8#rate

      PALIN:
      The Palins un-American activities
      http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/

      Sarah Palin, the AIP, and the Extremist Fringe
      By MICHAEL STICKINGS, Assistant Editor http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/sarah-palin/23395/sarah-palin-the-aip-and-the-extremist-fringe/

      BOTH:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-lux/guilt-by-associations_b_133758.html

  • Posted By: flusher @ 10/24/2008 12:49:15 PM

    To acoustictherapy
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. However Warren Buffet while probably the greatest investor of our time is hardly an expert on the political and social philosophy of Barrack Obama.Voting records if of any longevity are one indicator. Obama, however has a very shallow record and his130 "present" voted offer no insight. His college papers might offer some insight. Questions regarding his alleged membership in the New Party, a Chicago socialist party are troubling. See Aaron Kleins investigations and photographs regarding this matter. And his associations which he has obfuscated and misled on are very troubling. Demeaning "Joe the Plumber" is not an appropriate response. Obama's instintual reponse to him is!

    • Posted By: acoustictherapy @ 10/24/2008 12:55:57 PM

      Your party has "alleged" that Obama belongs, or belonged, to virtually every major Black liberation movement, left-wing radical cell and socialist fringe group on earth...and not one of your accusations has been substantiated by anyone who would be considered credible (that is, someone who is not a blatant apologist for the right wing).

      Visit http://www.snopes.com. Any rumor, hoax or smear that's ever been posted anywhere is confirmed or debunked on that website. Get the real story - just because a Republican hurls an accusation at Obama doesn't make them honest, or the smear true.

  • Posted By: quantumleap @ 10/24/2008 12:15:13 PM

    Long before Joe the Plumber said it, I was thinking it. He only voiced what thousands of hard working Americans were thinking silently to themselves. I don't even make a fraction of the money Joe Biden makes and I donated more money to charity than he has over the past nine years. He and Obama ought to be ashamed of themselves. Due to the fear of them getting into power, I have decided to sell all my stock at a loss (I don't want them getting any Capital Gains taxes from me). It was my hard earned money, not theirs that was invested. So, you wonder why the stock market is doing poorly? It is because we are all afraid of their socialism and spreading our hard earned wealth. I got a fulltime job to put myself through college. I did the work. Why should some lame person who has done nothing to contribute to society get any of my money? I donate to the organizations I feel are worthy of MY money. That's right. It is MY MONEY! It isn't the government's to spend.

    Do you think I'm not patriotic? My husband has been on Active Duty since January 2002. I have been left to raise our two sons by myself.

    I'm sick of these people sticking their dirty hands in my pocketbook.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:25:33 PM

      " I donate to the organizations I feel are worthy of MY money. That's right. It is MY MONEY! It isn't the government's to spend."

      Actually, according to article I, sec 8 of the constitution, once it's taxed, that tax money is the Treasury Department's money.

      Also, why aren't you complaining about McCain, too? He helped send $700,000,000,000 of "your" money to banks and insurance companies in this "bailout" so those poor AIG execs didn't have to cancel their trip to the spa.

      • Posted By: quantumleap @ 10/24/2008 12:37:36 PM

        What? After I pay my taxes, the residual is mine. I don't need the government taking more of my money and "spreading the wealth." Truth be told, I'm an Independent. I don't like either party. I don't vote according to party lines or take a side based on some false allegiance. I didn't complain about McCain because he isn't threatening to "spread the wealth." As I said before, Joe the Plumber only voice what many people are thinking.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:51:32 PM

          "What? After I pay my taxes, the residual is mine."

          How else has the government taken your money?

          "I didn't complain about McCain because he isn't threatening to "spread the wealth""

          No, he just went ahead and did it. To the tune of $700,000,000,000, given to incompetent businessmen. You want your money back? Great. Take out a loan.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:18:56 PM

      "So, you wonder why the stock market is doing poorly? It is because we are all afraid of their socialism and spreading our hard earned wealth."

      Rubbish. It has to do with poorly regulated markets and hollow shells of companies inflating their value, alongside a pile of toxic mortgages.

      • Posted By: Trey9128 @ 10/24/2008 12:24:20 PM

        Exactly. Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd, who blocked even the Bush administration's attempts at reforming Fannie Mae, are the responsible parties. But Obama's anti-growth tax increases will hammer the markets even further if he's elected.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 10/24/2008 12:28:48 PM

          Bush's "effort" was in 2005.

          Now, how did those mean old democrats do that in 2005, when the republicans controlled congress?

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