The View From ‘Nowhere’

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  • Posted By: Chicazule @ 10/31/2008 7:09:20 PM

    That's interesting. The website calls me "chicazule" but it really is me.

    Dave Kiffer

  • Posted By: Chicazule @ 10/31/2008 7:06:09 PM

    Wow, leaving comments here is a little tricky, I appologize that I just left a garbled message! I just wanted to thank the hundreds of people who left messages here and the hundreds who have emailed me about the essay. It is gratifying to know that words and ideas can still stir strong emotions. Thank you for taking the time to read something about a place that may seem very far away, but isn't all that different from where you live, big city or small.

    Dave Kiffer
    Ketchikan, Alaska

  • Posted By: Chicazule @ 10/31/2008 7:00:53 PM

    I just wanted to take a minute to thank all of you who posted your comments regarding the essay. And also to the hundreds of people who have emailed me. It is humbling to know that words can stir such strong emotions. And I appreciate that whether you are for or against "the bridge" that you

  • Posted By: schaff37 @ 10/31/2008 6:21:25 PM

    Alaska could have built the bridge years ago by setting aside some of the oil royalty money it refunds to citizens there, but that would have required non-pandering politicians to explain that citizens in the rest of the U.S. should not foot the bill. Sen. Stevens and Gov.Palin could have held back the bridge's $400 million cost out of the $3 billion oil companies paid.

    Bob Schaffner
    Delaware

  • Posted By: farside @ 10/31/2008 12:28:33 PM

    Another $3m per year would be stupendious. What couldn't be done to make the ferry crossing a pleasure with that kind of money. The reality is we tried every year to get a realistic subsidy for the ferries from the State legislature. They refused to acknowledge that the ferry was a part of the airport operation or any part of the Alaska Marine Highway System. It has to stand on it's own but it is a cost center on the Ketchikan Airport Operating budget.

    As I understand it, the funding to build the bridge would come from federal highway dollars and state gasoliine taxes just as most highways are built in other states. We paid to rebuild the Oakland Bay Bridge when it went down in the earthquake and we paid to rebuild the I35 bridge in Minneapolis when it went down. These were rebuilt to save taxpayers in Oakland and Minneapolis money in the long run, interest or no interest. I don't see it as realistic to say throwing another $3M after the $3M that is already going to waste is good economic sense.

  • Posted By: farside @ 10/29/2008 10:04:01 PM

    Kudos for Mayor Kiffer.
    All the retoric I have seen so far does not address the other major impact the bridge would have for Ketchikan and all of the US taxpayers. Giving Ketchikan a place to grow is great
    and have a hard link to the airport is vital but what is not being address here is the excessive
    cost of operating the airport.

    The airport is remote from the city and is a city onto itself. It requires all the infrastructure of a city including water, sewer, power, garbage, police and fire protection, road maintenace, snow removal, landscaping, and all the facilities to house the equipment and personnel to operate all of these necessities.

    Because of the Alaska Pipeline, state employees in Alaska are still paid very high wages. It was necessary to raise wages to pipeline levels in the 80's and we still have them today. Fire and police persons can easily have a base pay of $65 per hour with very generous bennies.
    30 plus days of personal time off each year, full medical,time and a half, double time and triple time for over time and or holiday pay.

    All of these positions (20+) would not be required if there were a "Hard Link" to the airport. FAA requlations allow police and firepersons from the city to be cross utilized at the airport with certain call out times and stipulations for flight operations.

    When you total the costs of the ferry operation, the extra equipment, personnel, storage buildings (necessary because of 200 inches of rain per year), staffing offices, it amounts to
    millions per year.

    Some of the cost are recoped to ferry fees for everyone who rides the ferries and high landing fees for the airlines but the deficit is made up by you and me in taxes. We can go on in our bliss paying for the ferry. It doesn't bother me. But, sometimes we have to spend money to save money. This is one of those time. That's why you buy a Prius. It cost more then a Corolla but in the long run which is going to save you money..

    • Posted By: questioner @ 10/31/2008 11:44:43 AM

      Assuming all you say is correct, and Ketchikan discharged all of those 20+ employees, the cost savings would be less than $3,000,000 per year. The interest cost alone for a $300,000,000 capital project would be at least 3 times that much. It would be more cost effective to spend another $3,000,000 per year to make the ferry more user friendly (better shelter on board and at the shores; longer hours; higher frequency). This would still be a lot less expensive than the bridge, which many local Ketchikan people seem to think is bad for their municipality at any price.

  • Posted By: questioner @ 10/28/2008 11:56:45 AM

    I was a recent Ketchikan tourist and saw the reasons (airport access and growth) for a bridge to Gravina island. However, I don't get the Mayor's comment that the airport was sited across the narrows over the objections of many. If there is no other place for Ketchikan to grow, where else could the airport have been sited?

    • Posted By: Rainycity @ 10/28/2008 6:48:39 PM

      Because qusetioner, at the time the airport was built years ago there WAS room. Not so much now.

      • Posted By: questioner @ 10/28/2008 7:00:50 PM

        Sorry to be contrary, but the population has barely increased in the last 40 years. Where could an airport have been sited on the mainland?

        • Posted By: Chicazule @ 10/28/2008 8:35:29 PM

          I'll get out the census data when I have a minute, but, yes, Ketchikan has grown. More importantly, so has Prince of Wales Island which relies on our airport, as does Metlakatla. Private plane usage has increased tremendously as celebrities and CEO's discover the many fishing lodges in the area. Air freight has expanded tremendously in 40 years as has the number of seasonal workers who make their way to town for the cruise ship/fishing/fish processing season. By all accounts, it is thousands of people who fly here each summer.
          season.

          • Posted By: questioner @ 10/31/2008 11:31:37 AM

            I am not questioning the growth of the need for air service. I am simply questioning the Mayor's comment that the airport was sited across the narrows over the objections of many. Where on the mainland could the airport have been sited?

  • Posted By: jath123 @ 10/31/2008 8:29:52 AM

    I agree that calling this town "nowhere" is as insulting as calling places like New York and California "not the real America." However, that doesn't justify the bridge. Staten Island is connected to Manhattan only by ferry, and has a population 36 times that of Ketchikan (really). Marthas Vineyard in Massachusetts has only ferry service to the mainland and has a population of 14,000 just like Ketchikan. Both of these places do just fine with ferry service.

    Alaskan's have one of the lowest tax burdens in the country and get considerable annual payouts from the oil industry. This is the same oil industry whose infrastructure and business is heavily subsidized by the government and the rest of the US. A Ketchikan bridge cannot be justified. If Alaskans want it, they should pay for it themselves. And the rest of us should stop insulting Alaska by calling it "nowhere." You can't blame Alaska for trying.

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 10/30/2008 5:29:26 PM

    You can find hundreds of copies of the LA Times videotape that could destroy Obama at Blockbusters.

  • Posted By: HistoryGeek @ 10/30/2008 2:52:17 PM

    Umm... Mr. Concerned Canadian your "proven beyond doubt" posts are either assumptions or outright lies.

  • Posted By: Old Lady @ 10/29/2008 6:01:22 PM

    Gov Palin took the funds for the Bridge to Nowhere and built the road that goes to where the bridge is planned. I suggest the State of Alaska use some of their oil funds and build their own bridge. As it is, they receive 200% of the money they send to the federal government. How many other states have that claim to fame? Frankly, I think the State of Alaska is a socialist state...or maybe it's a communist or Marxist state. Anywya, they don't pay sales or income tax, get money from the oil companyies and they complain?????

  • Posted By: RainyAlaska @ 10/28/2008 3:20:42 PM

    Thank you Mayor Kiffer. I've been waiting a long time for the someone from Ketchikan to step forward and present the other side of story. It's very sad that Gov. Sarah didn't explain the bridge situation in a similar fashion.

    One of the posts below says "Lighten up guys". Well if your hometown was called "Nowhere" and people all over the world were making jokes about your community, you'd be a little disgruntled too. Everyone who lives here or has visited Ketchikan understands why we need a bridge. To take a car with two adults on the ferry to the airport costs $22. The ferry leaves every 30 minutes. Or you walk onto the ferry to the airport by carrying your suitcase, riding over then carrying your luggage up a ramp and walkway into the airport (one or two blocks) for $5. Remember we get 13 feet of rain a year and winds blowing 40 mpg are frequent. It you have a small child or an older family member, it's loads of fun.

    The Mayor is correct, Ketchikan will survive and someday flourish again. After all we are Alaskans and Americans which is the best of both worlds!!!

    • Posted By: reader16 @ 10/29/2008 4:59:04 PM

      I lived in Ketchikan for 5 years and never have understood the need for a bridge. The ferry service is totally adequate to serve the needs of Ketchikan and Gravina Island. But if the people really want a bridge so bad then why don't they save up their PFD checks and pay for it themselves instead of relying on a pork handout from the lower 48?

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/29/2008 2:53:13 PM

      You "want" a bridge. Do you have $14,000 to invest in it? You do not "need" the bridge.

  • Posted By: NiqueD @ 10/26/2008 5:25:44 AM

    What I don't get, and nobody sane would, is how you neocons have managed to make this Obama and the democrats "fault.". You got the damn money for the bridge. YOUR nazi governor chose to bow to public pressure and spent the money on something else. YOUR state has a budget surplus. You get oil money, each and everyone of you. You get tax breaks for your fuel expenses so you're double dipping the rest of taxpayers in the other 49 states, none of us which get those two little pocket filler items.

    So here we are, your governor got the money for the bridge, stole it and spent it elsewhere, you have the money to build the bridge out of state money and somehow this has all turned into Obama and the Democrats fault. Do you have the slightest clue how ignorant you are?

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/29/2008 4:57:41 PM

      http://www.msnusers.com/WolfmanFriends/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=324&LastModified=4675693306630504487

    • Posted By: aktn23 @ 10/27/2008 12:54:39 PM

      how do you come up with "double dipping" the rest of the country's taxpayers? we pay federal taxes on the dividends we receive from the state. the fuel rebate was given because, after the rest of the country's fuel had finally declined in cost, our fuel remained the hightest in the nation, at around $4.50 per gallon (don't quote me on the exact amount, but it was right in that area). also many who live in the outlying villages use oil for heat and in case you didn't know, Alaska's winters are about 2 to 3 months longer than the rest of the lower 48. I'm not actually defending the dividends, as I personally would rather see the funds go into something like improving our roads or schools - but i take issue with your comment about us double dipping the rest of you.

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/26/2008 8:50:55 AM

      Sounds like common sense to me.

  • Posted By: mrhog123 @ 10/29/2008 3:42:15 PM

    Voyager, lol, obviously on a voyage somewhere other than realitiy. Once again, I wonder how many bridges he uses that have been built with federal dollars? Here comes that "H" word again.

    • Posted By: voyager @ 10/29/2008 4:03:29 PM

      Mr. Hog, (great name- not!) maybe a great deal of our problems are federal spending projects? Hmm? Sure I use highway bridges, but I have a feeling those tax dollars were raised long ago and far away. The 800 pound gorilla is no one wants to be taxed- but they don't mind their neighbor paying for it. Even worse is the current economic vogue of spending tomorrow's or the next century's dollars on big bail-outs and other spurious "solutions" to our woes. We are spending paper money and eventually it is going to end up in hyperinflation, greater unemployment, an ill-considered demand to ruin the North American ecosytem to gain a few more years of oil while we ruin the atmosphere with coal-burning power plants, and ship more nuclear waste to places that can't handle it (Savannah River site and Yucca Mountain are examples). Yeah, I am living somewhere different from you- the real world.

  • Posted By: mrhog123 @ 10/29/2008 3:49:09 PM

    I wonder how many bridges "Wolfman" has invested $14,000 in? But I bet he still uses the bridges. There is a name for I believe.

    Carl Thompson

  • Posted By: mrhog123 @ 10/29/2008 3:28:23 PM

    I wonder how many bridges "Wolfman" has invested $14,000 in? But I bet he still uses the bridges. There is a name for I believe.

    Carl Thompson

  • Posted By: Nins @ 10/26/2008 1:26:38 PM

    There hasn't been a Democrat majority in Washington since 1965, and before that, 1933. It looks like we are about to see another such event take place. By November 5, 2008 both houses of Congress and the Presidency will be in Democratic hands.

    For those readers who can think for themselves, think back to 1965. Kennedy and the Civil Rights movement. A pivotal time in our history, one we can all be proud of. And 1933, when FDR gave us the New Deal and turned around the Great Depression. If you think about the past century, the only two times that we have had a liberal Democrat majority, America got STRONGER and BETTER.

    Obama '08

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/29/2008 3:25:15 PM

      October 28, 2008
      By Wolfman

      America is about to be flushed down the toilet

      Obama is a socialist. This has finally been confirmed. It was confirmed by Obama himself in his conversation with Joe the plumber.

      Obama doesn???t like the constitution. He also said so on tape. When the constitution is flushed down the toilet, America as we have known it is gone. The redistribution of wealth can take place. Abortion will probably be legal and probably not subject to change. Freedom of speech will go away. You, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and John McCain will not be free to say what they want to say. Health care will be subject to government regulation. Guns will be restricted or outlawed. You won???t appreciate the constitution until it???s gone. My hope is that if the constitution goes, the people who voted for Obama will realize that the constitution was a treasure, and that they made a terrible mistake. Also, it would be nice if people would take a good look into what may happen, and decide to hold off on ???CHANGE???.

      Obama will appoint judges. When he appoints enough Supreme Court judges, the Supreme Court will be able to legislate from the bench. They will determine what the constitution means in THEIR view, and you will live with their decisions.

      I would like to point out some things about ???spreading the wealth???. The part of the 95% of taxpayers that don???t pay taxes will get money. I call that welfare, and I predict you will see welfare like you???ve never seen before. Those on welfare will relax, and attempt to get more money. It???s the duty of the rich to make those on welfare comfortable. Black people will collect, be militant, and antisocial. If this is a racist statement, so be it. Unwed mothers and broken families will not go away. Spreading the wealth is not for the common good.

      People are not stupid, but they can be duped, fooled, and manipulated. Hitler duped, fooled, and manipulated the people. The problem we are facing now is that people are being duped, fooled, and manipulated.

      What are ???WE??? going to do? ???WE??? aren???t going to do anything. ???YOU??? had better figure out what ???YOU??? are going to do.

      In God we trust.

  • Posted By: Sick of Liars @ 10/27/2008 3:56:55 PM

    I think Sarah Palin needs to take her FAT LIPSTICK A## down to Donnas restaurant in JUNEAU AK and look at the picture of the Juneau -----Douglas bridge to KNOWhere and I mean KNOWhere they didnt anything overthere maybe take her old fart counter partner with her being how Insain Macain has probably never even been to Alaska this whole V/P thing is totally ridiculous anyway do you really think America really wants someone who speaks in tones like OOOH Golly GEE Ketchikan you dont get your bridge but Wasilla gets theirs you tell me if thats not special intrest I dont really believe a single word those spout off . Its just a bunch of lies anyway. So I wont be voteing for the Arizona snakeweasel and the Alaskanbeaver. PLEASE VOTE RESPONSIBLY AMERICA . GOD BLESS US ALL......

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/29/2008 3:04:57 PM

      October 28, 2008
      By Wolfman

      America is about to be flushed down the toilet

      Obama is a socialist. This has finally been confirmed. It was confirmed by Obama himself in his conversation with Joe the plumber.

      Obama doesn???t like the constitution. He also said so on tape. When the constitution is flushed down the toilet, America as we have known it is gone. The redistribution of wealth can take place. Abortion will probably be legal and probably not subject to change. Freedom of speech will go away. You, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and John McCain will not be free to say what they want to say. Health care will be subject to government regulation. Guns will be restricted or outlawed. You won???t appreciate the constitution until it???s gone. My hope is that if the constitution goes, the people who voted for Obama will realize that the constitution was a treasure, and that they made a terrible mistake. Also, it would be nice if people would take a good look into what may happen, and decide to hold off on ???CHANGE???.

      Obama will appoint judges. When he appoints enough Supreme Court judges, the Supreme Court will be able to legislate from the bench. They will determine what the constitution means in THEIR view, and you will live with their decisions.

      I would like to point out some things about ???spreading the wealth???. The part of the 95% of taxpayers that don???t pay taxes will get money. I call that welfare, and I predict you will see welfare like you???ve never seen before. Those on welfare will relax, and attempt to get more money. It???s the duty of the rich to make those on welfare comfortable. Black people will collect, be militant, and antisocial. If this is a racist statement, so be it. Unwed mothers and broken families will not go away. Spreading the wealth is not for the common good.

      People are not stupid, but they can be duped, fooled, and manipulated. Hitler duped, fooled, and manipulated the people. The problem we are facing now is that people are being duped, fooled, and manipulated.

      What are ???WE??? going to do? ???WE??? aren???t going to do anything. ???YOU??? had better figure out what ???YOU??? are going to do.

      In God we trust.

  • Posted By: pastol @ 10/28/2008 2:05:12 PM

    A tad harsh, don't you think lester & Wolf? I thought the article was a nice insight that has previously been ignored. Why didn't Palin explain things like this? It doesn't validate the need for a bridge, nor does the writer pretend to attempt to do so. Lighten up guys. Nowhere did Mr. Kiffer say that he felt it was vitally important. That is putting words into his mouth. And he seems to have a pretty adult attitude about the whole thing. As to why Palin didn't explain it like this, well, does lipstick on a pig ring a bell?

    • Posted By: Wolf Wolfman @ 10/29/2008 2:59:11 PM

      Could it be that Newsweek and Kiffer are promoting "spread the wealth around" politics? If so, I think it has backfired to some extent.

  • Posted By: Rainycity @ 10/28/2008 7:43:18 PM

    questioner, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I have lived here for over 41 years. The popluation has increased a lot in my experience. Not to mention the absolute boom in visitors. What you're calling the Mainland is Revillagegedo Island. Our original airport was on Annette island, much further than Gravina Island where it is now. When my mother brought me here she had to take a floatplane from Annette to Ketchikan. We had one or two small cruiseships that came to port. Now we have close to a million visitors a year. Development has grown to where we are splitting at the seams. We also services smaller outlying communities. Don't confuse this post as vote for or against the bridge. All I do know is that we need improvement in the access to the Airport, as well as a way to develop the land on Gravina island. Only someone who has lived here can really seem to understand that. And thank you Mayor Kiffer for bringing a local perspective to a very heated issue.

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