'Unethical?'

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  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 10/28/2008 6:07:08 PM


    Here is what McCain said in 2000: (source: New Yorker)


    wealthy people can afford more, and the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really do not pay nearly as much as you think they do.

    The exchange continued:

    Young woman: Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?. . .

    McCain: Here is what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there is nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.



    Here is what Sarah Palin said a few weeks before her VP selection: (source: New Yorker)

    Referring to Alaska revenue:

    So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs. Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it (collectively, no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist.


    What this shows is that their argument about spreading wealth is hogwash just to get elected.

    • Posted By: Desert Dem Son @ 10/28/2008 6:38:12 PM

      Hey, Arizona is last in Education. and hiway funding. Maybe thats why I have problems spelling..or fat .fingers. But that's right even Alaska is ahead of us. And you know how well Sarah reads. Maybe John Mccain should've gotten some earmarks for us. Don't know how he's stayed in office except that he's from Phoenix and they're pro-business. Bunch of rich developers like Keating.

  • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 6:27:39 PM

    The connection between Obama and Ayers is through
    the Chicago Annenberg Challenge that received money from the Annenburg
    Foundation, but the Chicago Annenburg Challenge Challenge and the
    Annenburg Foundation are not directly connected philosophically. The
    earmark Senator Obama requested was for the Annenburg Foundation, which
    funded the Chicago Annenburg Challenge and also funds FactCheck.org.
    Obama is tied to both groups one via earmark, the other via direct
    participation, however, Ayers is not directly connected to
    FactCheck.org

  • Posted By: sharpeone @ 10/28/2008 5:51:26 PM

    It is time for a change, the lies and scare tactics are the same tactics Bush used. Make the change and vote for Obama who does not have to rely on lies and scare tactics!

    • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 5:57:27 PM

      yes your right, Obama doesn't lie, he refuses to explain what he did, therefore it is not a lie... he does not use scare tactics... LOL, look up the CASE in 94 against Citibank... the whole point of the lawsuit was to use scare tactics to force them to give bad loans... look at what his campaign did to smear a voter who asked him a question... NO he does not use scare tactics... Wake up dude, get your head out of the sand....

      • Posted By: AskPlus @ 10/28/2008 6:29:17 PM

        CNN poll had explanations at Obama 63% - McCain 32%.

  • Posted By: Rhan @ 10/28/2008 6:23:24 PM

    http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/10/how_much_would_you_save.php
    stop listening to ads and see if you will save!!!

    Obama/Biden 08'

  • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 6:23:18 PM

    There is a disturbing link between Barack Obama, FactCheck.org, and William Ayers. National Review reports that William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as co-chairs of the Chicago Annenburg Challenge.

    Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark for the Annenburg Foundation that sponsors FactCheck.org.

    Several FactCheck articles have been viewed as promoting the Obama campaign line instead of truly acting as a fact checkers. Controlling the ???facts??? is a hallmark of a totalitarian regime, and this is truly an unsettling connection.

  • Posted By: jupmod @ 10/28/2008 5:35:29 PM

    This is getting tiresome. These lies are really making me very sick of McCain. He had promised months ago a straight good campaign, but in the last month, it was nothing but irrespectful lies, attacks, etc. I just do not see how could anyone say these lies are truth and ethical.

    • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 5:52:01 PM

      Oh, and Obama hasn't done the same? Please, vote for Obama, maybe he'll win and then you can blame yourself for putting him in office, and you can blame him when unemployement goes through the roof.... At least you won't be able to blame the republicans anymore.... We'll then see how smart your vote was, how smart you were for listening to the far left media.... hope your ready for retirement now, because your going to take home less money, and your going to become a welfare class....

  • Posted By: sharpeone @ 10/28/2008 5:50:19 PM

    It appears as the Republican Party gets more desperate, they increase their lies and scare tactics. It is time for a change, we have had enough Republican scare and smear tactics dating back to Bush. Yes, McCain is using Bush's tactics. Let's make a change, Vote Obama!

  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 10/28/2008 5:08:28 PM

    Fact:

    When people have more money to buy goods and services, business (and corporations) profit goes up.

    They also need more workers to produce.

    DEMAND SIDE ECONOMICS

    • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 5:43:29 PM

      oops, you forgot, corporations are not allowed to make profits..... that's not allowed by the unions and democrats.... hmmm, unions, and we wonder why jobs are being outsourced to other countries.... LOL, you union democrats think you can demand everything, yet you invest not one penny in the company, and you deserve all the profits. Then you cry because someone else will do your work for less money and they'll be greatful for the job. you had the job, but your never greatful to have a job. you think it is your entitlement... well, now we see the truth, the democrats promising to take care of you will be chasing many of your companies right out of the country.... and you'll still be crying blaming it on the republicans. I hope mcCain looses, and democrats get super majority in congress... then who will you blame?????
      but it will be to late then... LOL.... hope none of you democrats live paycheck to paycheck.... that $1000 dollars Obama promised you, it's going to cover about one house payment for you, then it is gone, just like your job.... Then who you going to blame?????

      • Posted By: Desert Dem Son @ 10/28/2008 5:48:43 PM

        I anwered below with this. Ithink it fits here too.
        I was working fine at a company and a recruitter from another comany talked meinto a better job at a Solar company. Great opportunity , right. Three weeks in I was let go because they couldn't afford me. No reprimands, no meetings to say I wasn't doing my job(my boss had already told me i would be promoted in six months), just adios. got paid to the day Iworked, no severance , no help getting another job, no retraining (didn't need it) just don't let the door hit me. Was out of work 3 months, with no medical insurance (Cobra costs were $1150 per month) and $200 a week unemployment that was refused to me. Every lawyer I checked with said it was immoral but not against Arizona law. That's John Mccain's right to work state.

    • Posted By: Let's Get A Clue @ 10/28/2008 5:13:50 PM

      No. Pure demand-side economics is a losing battle. The money distributed for spending does not just go to American companies; it goes to foreign companies based on people buying imported goods. The government is also not efficient at turning tax revenue into disbursements . . . so far less than 100% of taxes collected are disbursed.

      Demand-side economics works only when the companies are fundamentally strong and well-capitalized; or when you want to run up massive deficits.

      Read Keynes. He invented demand-side economics and promoted deficit spending. You cannot have effective demand-side economics without running large deficits. Period.

      For a history lesson, look at 1929 - 1949.

      • Posted By: Let's Get A Clue @ 10/28/2008 5:17:34 PM

        Correction: Damn typing window is too small. By well-capitalized, I mean the situation companies had in 1929 when corporations were sitting on large piles of cash that were not circulated back into the economy. Any economist will tell you that companies nowadays are generally close to being undercapitalized. So by taxing them, you are removing investment revenue, not stockpiled savings. Pure demand-side economics cannot work in our current economy without running a massive deficit.

  • Posted By: Let's Get A Clue @ 10/28/2008 5:47:06 PM

    tiredoflies: If that's what you believe, vote Obama. Just don't complain when you discover you've elected Jimmy Carter instead of Bill Clinton.

  • Posted By: Desert Dem Son @ 10/28/2008 5:43:25 PM

    What is o ethical abbout John Mccain? He wasat the bottom of his class (does tha mean he has very little class). He was a drunk and cheating on his first wife before he went to Vietnam, He left her after he came back because she was disfured from an automoblie accident, He took out his marriage license to marry his present wife before he was divorced from his first wife., he purposely embarrassed Gov. Moffet and then lsought her out to tell her he had nothing to do with it. He was censured for helping and taking money from his good bud. from Lincoln Savings(Keating). He talks about being a Maverick. A maverick just means he's stubborn and goes his own selfish way, is someone who always thinks they're right. Sound like Yale cheerleader we know? Of course Mccain has been unethical in this campaign. He doesn't have an honest
    bone in his body. He one of those people that smiles while waiting for his bud to get behind you in a crouch and then he gently touches your chest in making a point. Of course he didn't know you were going to fall.

  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 10/28/2008 5:38:03 PM

    It is fact that Palin fires anyone who does NOT kiss up to her and hires all her friends.

    Bush brought all his friends from Texas.

    McCain, beholden to Bush, has hired all his team.

    McCain and Palin are the only two in this race convicted with ethics violations.

    And in case you do not get it, that means McCain and Palin have been PROVEN to be dishonest and deceitful in performing their duties in government.

    THAT IS FACT.

  • Posted By: Palin who? @ 10/28/2008 3:02:50 PM

    Brydges, you're giving me too much to make fun of you again...go scrub toilets at your real important job. You certainly do suck at life.

    • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 5:34:14 PM

      nice insult Palin Who, you must be pretty high on yourself to insult everyone without any factual support...
      are you a democrat or republican?

  • Posted By: Jebbo1 @ 10/28/2008 3:01:35 PM

    OK after reading this story i find it leaves out one major fact. The obama campaign has spent more than anyone else in the history presidential campaigns on negative adds. Of which the vast majority are misleading or just plain untrue. Come on news week, lets report the hole story not just a part that happens to meet your political ideals.

    • Posted By: cantwait @ 10/28/2008 5:29:54 PM

      You need to remember that the donation records that Obama is beating are W. Bush's! I'm sure I did not hear you whine when it was a Republican bringing in money. Guess that means more Americans are willing to show their support for Obama then McCain. And open your eyes, there are even some conservative media outlets criticizing McCain/Palin for the negativity if not blatant lies of their advertising.
      You are just mouthing a desperate attack by McCain during the last debate. It fell on deaf ears of the informed voters then and still does now. Obama, for the most part, has kept his ads on the issues.

    • Posted By: Finding the Truth @ 10/28/2008 4:02:57 PM

      I would have to disagree with you. Any ads that were running attack the plans that McCain has which don't agree with what this country needs at this time. O'bama's plan is parrallel to the Clinton era in which all benefitted from it.

  • Posted By: powell1981 @ 10/28/2008 3:29:27 PM

    EVERYONE WATCH ZEIGEIST .............You will see all the real truths about this war and the wars in the past..........McCain will only make things worse......WE NEED TO BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!!!

    • Posted By: calipauthy @ 10/28/2008 5:29:17 PM

      yes, let's bring our troops home, let iran nuke the jews, and then blame bush when they attack our homeland. good idea, bring home the troops,and wait to be attacked here at home....
      you all want your freedoms that we enjoy thanks to our past wars.... then you use your freedoms to try to bring the country down so we can loose our freedom to some radicals that hate us because we allow minorities and women to vote...
      lets take down our guard, loose our freedom of speech, at least then, we won't have to listen to your opinion....

  • Posted By: martin_gray @ 10/28/2008 5:21:29 PM

    What does the last post have to do with the subject article about McCain's unethical statements about Senator Obama? Must be a slow day at the Drudge or Fox News.

  • Posted By: cath52 @ 10/28/2008 3:01:17 PM

    Does this piece surprise anyone?

    McCain's campaign strategy has always been to falsify or outright lie about any of his opponents to distract voters from his own weaknesses and lack of credentials for the job of President.

    • Posted By: Ken Sabodish @ 10/28/2008 5:21:10 PM

      this says it all
      Educational Background:

      Barack Obama:
      Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specializati on in International Relations.
      Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna *** Laude

      Joseph Biden:
      University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
      Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

      vs.

      John McCain:
      United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

      Sarah Palin:

      Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
      North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
      University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
      Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
      University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism


      Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the entire world. You make the call.

    • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 3:23:18 PM

      I agree completely! Except now, so close to election time, he's really jumping the shark because he knows he's in the crapper.

  • Posted By: MFCE_NZ @ 10/28/2008 3:35:53 PM

    Where did you learn your economics? Libertyfirst ever heard of a thing called the balanced budget theorem. Where did you learn to distort the truth like McCain? If fact tax cuts for the rich disrupt the balanced budget theorem because tax cuts for the rich constitute only discretionary income as a proportion of their total income. They will more likely to be spent on savings possibly in off shore in tax havens , purchasing fewer luxury type goods many of which may be imported, overseas holidays etc. In fact the rich typically engage in the types of expenditure which do very little to lift consumption and circulate money in the domestic economy and will have a disproportionately adverse affect on the balance of payments. Trickle down is exactly what it says you poor buckets of money in at the top for the rich and a small trickle comes out at the bottom for the poor e.g. donations to charity. If you want to stimulate the economy create jobs and even wealth for the rich which is what is needed right about now is in fact to give tax cuts to the middle and lower incomes they will spend more on purchasing the goods and services that will generate income and jobs in the domestic economy. The rich and the cooperates in America have already had their tax cuts thanks to George Bush no one was calling that re-distribution of wealth socialism suddenly when its cuts for the middle and lower income brackets it???s a re-distribution of wealth and socialism. This is exactly the type of rubbish and one eyed twisted logic that results from the untruths masquerading as knowledge that Libertyfirst is spouting. If you purport to be an intellectual or an expert on economics libertyfirst then you damn well should be not just be another mouthpiece for McCain???s lies.

    • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 3:41:35 PM

      Uhhhh, yeah. I'm with him. Better argument than I had, but yeah. Good.

      • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 4:01:30 PM

        Not liberty first, just to clarify. His position is undefendable, unless, as I pointed out, you're a white middle class guy from the burbs who's never been to the inner city.... Any of them.

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 4:15:20 PM

          Way off Salad Fork. I've busted my knuckles, my back, and my brain to get within the broad range of Middle Class. But coming at this from a different angle, the Dems have controlled the Congress for over 40 years, less about 4-6 years for Newt and Republicans under a Clinton presidency. The Dems primary rallying cry all these years has been to be "for the little guy." We've spent, and spent, and spent billions upon billions of dollars fighting poverty via direct payments, direct assistance, and alike. We've spend untold billions on an education system everyone is too afraid to touch. All this governmental spending for the "good of the people" and where are we today? Same problems, different decade...many of the same politicians. Obama is new, I'm told. Ok. You bet. I was even interested until he started in on the progressive liberal crap that we need more spending to solve this or that problem. No, what we need is for government to butt the hell out, stop creating messes in the markets and in our local communities. I suppose that makes me a libertarian of sorts. Whatever. I've voted all over the map in my life....will continue to do so. But we the people need to wise up to forces that keep us in the same damn dialogue of tax and spend our way out of problems. Don't like what the Republicans just spent money on during the Bush years? Fine, either do I. But Obama, so far, has only proposed more spending. More taxes. No thanks.

          • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 4:24:27 PM

            The government didn't create this mess. Corporate corruption did. They get away with murder. And that republican congress? In 2000 (or so) they lifted the bans they had put on wall street, which were supposed to stop another depression. Guess what happened!! Thanks guys. Bang up job. And now wall street gets a slap on the wrists and bail money.

            • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 4:39:08 PM

              Salad Fork: Bush didn't "life a ban" on anything to do with the markets. In fact, his administration called repeatedly for the tighter management and oversight of Fannie and Freddie -- the straws that broke the proverbial back of our mortgage system. But Barney Franks and Chris Dodd -- both chairs of their respective banking committees claimed that there was no problem and that Bush should just butt out. They were obviously wrong. Government does create messes in the private sector. All the time, in fact. Whether its telecom or energy etc... its so often the poorly worded, poorly thought out, or poorly enforced, regulation that causes the leak that becomes the hole that breaks the damn. Then, with the utmost gall, the politicians involved either ignore their role in the mess or claim it was the other guy. After the collapse in 1929, banks were regulated out of the investment game directly. So rose the Investment Bank. Today, despite plenty of lobbying by all parties for Congress to update these archane regulations that kept Investment Banks from taking deposits, which would of helped shore up their balance sheets, Congress failed to act, failed to fix its own regulation. And we saw what happened. Then, we bail everyone out. Great. Not so much. Blame Bush and the Republicans all you want, but it won't fix a damn thing until we blame both parties equally and fairly. They are both culpable to not serving the best interests of this country. You may now have my soap box.

              • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 5:05:31 PM

                I know. Bush didn't "life a ban" on anything. But wait, did you just say that it would've been better for Bush to have more control and tighter regulation? Doesn't that run counter to the center of your argument? Oops! And yes, there were laws against what amounted to a "bookie ring" in Wall Street where you didn't even have to own a stock, you just basically betted on it without buying. Look it up. They were lifted soon after the Bush administration came into office. That's what jacked the money markets. That and Alan Greenspan's urging of people to take ARM's, then jacking up the fed just before leaving. I blame the lack of corporate control (which you now also claim to blame, for some reason) and the Bush administration. Bush is diverting billions of dollars into a pointless war. And 700 billion into failed banks. It was a house of cards, built by the wankers I've been railing against all along. I don't need your soapbox. I'm done with you.

    • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 3:49:06 PM

      The lower income brackets DO NOT PAY income tax. They pay a payroll tax that is returned to them via refunds. They pay FICA and Medicare taxes -- as well all do -- and that does suck, given the mess those programs are in. Why is it a "break" to NOT tax someone at an even higher marignal rate than before? Does a thief claim to give a "break" to the victim if he chooses not to take the TV? "Trickle down" is a Democrat label for the economic theory that by fostering the growth of income and wealth by reducing the barriers to such wealth attainment, that in fact, the more money is spread throughout the system. Its not rubbish, nor political elitist to say so. Just look at a typical professional ballgame...say baseball. I'm the first guy to think that there's an obcene amount of money in the game today (I cannot even afford to take my kids to a game), but look at the "trickle down" you claim is bull. Venders galore thrive around the ballpark, entire industries depend on the fans buying team wear etc... It has a huge impact on a local economy...so much so teams frustratingly are able to convince taxpayers to pay for their ballparks these days. So its not Republican or McCain lies, its tangible economics we conveniently forget every 4 years at election time. When the Dems and the media play the same "chicken in every pot" crap. Government does not create jobs or a strong economy. They only either get in the way or get out of the way. So, I vote for the guy who claims to want to get the least in the way. This time I'm not sure, nor please with the choices. But it is what it is.

      • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 4:10:11 PM

        And your laissez faire theory of economics? Might want to check historically how that's turned out. I'll wait. Go google it. For those of you who aren't sure what happened in the USA when a laissez faire type of economy was in play... Well, it was the great depression. Which sounds an awful lot like the "bubble pop" we're seeing now. As a result of Bush's tax breaks... I'm not really sure (at least I'll admit when I'm not) but it sounds to me like we should avoid that sort of capitalism. No one in private business has your best interest at heart. In a democracy (someone get my soapbox) at least politicians have to do things right sometimes to get people to vote for them. Our democracy is kind of broken, as of late, but nonetheless.

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 4:22:54 PM

          Politicians do what's in their best interests...since "ours" is a collection of competing ideas, wants, and needs. I am not calling for the absolution of any regulation or governmental oversight, but given the history of well government does manage those tasks, I'll be damned if I'm going to vote for someone calling for more of it. Yikes. And in reference to the current election choices, both are knee-jerking their way to more regulation of the markets...instead of improving the screwed up regulations we already got and cause this mess.

      • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 3:59:18 PM

        When I was in a lower income bracket, I paid income tax. I didn't get it back. Where do I sign up for your program?

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 4:04:51 PM

          Get a better tax advisor or better H& R Block agent. Or consider yourself in a tax bracket other than lower. This is not my opinion, just go explore the IRS website, along with GAO information available. But my central point in the unfairness of a progressive tax system. Flat tax is the only fair way to go.

          • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 4:18:55 PM

            Yeah, it's the standard IRS form. Where you claim exemptions? That's for your income tax. Oh wait, have you ever been low income enough to know this? Obviously not, since you have no sympathy for those who have. Except maybe as a teenager when you worked at McDonalds. Did you have such IRS ninja cunning then? How about providing a link to this magic refund page, so I can send it along to a few of my struggling friends.

    • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 10/28/2008 4:18:29 PM

      One last reply... I do agree that tax cuts for the middle incomes as well. In fact, I will boldly call for less taxes for all persons, regardless of income. But that also means less government spending. So which comes first is the big question. And I for one see plenty of pork and fat in our current federal budget that is just itchin' to be cut.

  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 10/28/2008 5:04:45 PM


    Here is what McCain said in 2000: (source: New Yorker)


    ???wealthy people can afford more??? and that ???the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don???t pay nearly as much as you think they do.???

    The exchange continued:

    Young woman: Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?. . .

    McCain: Here???s what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there???s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.



    Here is what Sarah Palin said a few weeks before her VP selection: (source: New Yorker)

    Referring to Alaska revenue:

    So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.??? Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it (???collectively,??? no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist.


    What this shows is that their argument about spreading wealth is hogwash just to get elected.

  • Posted By: maninthewilderness @ 10/28/2008 5:00:45 PM

    geeeee unethical behavior? they DARE to point THAT finger? you GOTTA be kidding.. My Keating 5 and Mrs abuse of power? whoa... do they take the extra low road or what? they lie like a sack of rocks....

  • Posted By: foxfamily238 @ 10/28/2008 2:48:55 PM

    interesting that NONE of the misleading, wrong and misinformed ads and claims by the Obama camp NEVER make it to front page msn. Typical libral, biased, hypocritical left media.

    • Posted By: SaladFork @ 10/28/2008 2:57:52 PM

      Bush sucks. McCain sucks. Bill O'Reilly is a big blubbering douche. And he sucks. You suck. Har de har har. Meet me at the flagpole after school. Obama isn't perfect, but at least my buddies won't stuck in Iraq until 2015.

      • Posted By: Desert Dem Son @ 10/28/2008 4:57:43 PM

        I've got first dibs on the flag pole!

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