SOCIETY

Will My Marriage Last?

On Tuesday, Californians will head to the polls. How millions of strangers cast their votes will affect the most intimate parts of my life.

By David J. Jefferson | NEWSWEEK
Published Oct 30, 2008

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  • Posted By: sheebe @ 11/01/2008 12:25:00 AM

    I am not going to have my grand children learning about gays in grade school. I am tired of gays thinking they are special. They are just like me. At first I was going to vote no. Since the two flamers put that manequin of Palin hanging. Which I am voting 3rd party. I said to hell with these people. I have had enough. I am voting YES on 8/

    • Posted By: theonlytruth @ 11/01/2008 1:11:52 AM


      I agree. I am not going to promote nor support gayism to my children because it is not what God intends. Choosing to be gay is no different that choosing to be a criminal, an adulterer, or a person who abuses children. It's a choice and if you believe differently, you are mistaken. You will know one day the error of your ways, whether in this life or in the next. You do not believe there is a next life with judgment? Do you believe a cow has three legs? No matter how much you believe a cow has three legs it does not change the fact that it has four. The truth is out there whether you believe it or not, and you will come face to face with it one day. It is against the laws of Jesus Christ and you will have to answer to it.

      • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 1:18:00 AM

        No matter how much you believe homosexuality is unnatural, that doesn't change the fact that it has been reported in over 1500 species, and over 500 of those are well documented.

        It is the very definition of natural.

        • Posted By: neeka @ 11/01/2008 6:38:24 PM

          It's well documented that many species will eat their young if they feel threatened. It is natural. Also many male species will kill their young if allowed. That is natural too. Hey why don't we start eating raw meat and our own feces while we are at it.

          • Posted By: JustBeingSarah @ 03/04/2009 1:37:34 AM

            But you were the one that was supporting your argument with the "natural" angle - you disproved it yourself!

          • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 8:43:24 PM

            We do eat raw meat. Sushi, rare steaks, etc, etc, etc.

            If we needed the biological load our feces carry in our stomachs, we would eat it.

            There are just more apologies for fascism.

        • Posted By: ernestt @ 11/01/2008 8:03:05 PM

          Touche!!! If you believe that man evolved..... then that could be your basis of "natural"..... I you believe that man was created in the image of God and due to his rebellion became degraded that could be the basis of "natural"......

        • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 1:21:49 AM

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6066606.stm

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:11:21 PM

      " They are just like me. "

      So why don't you want them to have the same rights you have?

    • Posted By: Andrew Delo @ 11/01/2008 1:26:41 AM

      If "gays" are "just like you, why do you want "gays" to be treated differently?
      By the way, the big deal YOU and YOUR KIND are making about it is an excellent way to get it brought up in school every day. And that's pretty gay.

    • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 12:43:13 AM

      Gays are special. They are singled out for special persecution all the time.

      They cannot marry the person they love. Everyone else can, so that's pretty special.

      They cannot interpret Arabic into English for the US intelligence or military services. Since we really, really need interpreters, but still chose to fire over 900 Arabic speakers who happen to be gay, that seems particularly special to me.

      And finally, they cannot speak about how they feel or their mistreatment they receive without others saying "to hell with 'you people'".

      • Posted By: sheebe @ 11/01/2008 1:01:54 AM

        I know this. My son is gay. He feels that if this law passes. The people will take retribution and be more hateful towards gays. That is how he feels. I just don't want my grand children learning it in grade school. if it could be written differently, which Jerry Brown on purposely wrote it that way. Then I would vote no.

        • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 1:09:33 AM

          The only response I have is this: 18% of 65 year olds support gay marriage, while 65% of 18 year old support gay marriage. With any luck(?), you'll be dead by the time everyone stops hating your son.

          Honestly, your son has good reason to think the way he does. History shows that it takes little effort to get the bashers going. I wish him the best.

          • Posted By: sheebe @ 11/01/2008 1:26:40 AM

            LOL I needed that laugh. Thank you. He is 35. A great young man. Don't know why he feels that way. But I will search fire fox and read the proposal. Doesn't bother me that gays marry. Doesn't bother me that churches would lose their tax exempt either. That is the only thing they say on the radio in the commercials. That bugs me. Then why do they send their sheep to my door steps? I am agnostic. Greed of churches is why I won't step foot in them.

      • Posted By: sheebe @ 11/01/2008 1:05:23 AM

        Ouch, I am sorry. I didn't finish reading your whole post. I understand that. I watched my son be persecuted. He went through hell. Gays should be allowed in the military. I love my son dearly. I am only concerned that grade school children have to be taught this. They are to young. They see and know things already. Jr high or high school they should be taught about gays. It is important. Not grade school.

        • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 1:12:59 AM

          I think you over-imagine what they propose to teach. No one wants to teach sexuality to five year olds. But some five year-olds have two parents of the same gender, and I really, really feel like it's ok to tell kids that "some kids have two daddies".

          In fact, it's what we have taught our kids, and they do very well in both school and play. They are leaders in their schools, and are being invited to special forums and "gifted programs".

          It is a matter of explaining that respect is expected regardless of a person's background.

          • Posted By: sheebe @ 11/01/2008 1:23:16 AM

            Rats! Sorry again rogerhall. That I can understand. Didn't think of that. Gay people have a right to have kids. This group that I go to PFlag with my son. I see their kids grow up. They are happy, they made something out of themselves. They tend to stay out of trouble. Except my son when he was little. :) So then I am mis understanding their intentions in grade school? Your explanation makes sense. Thank you. I should look up the proposal and read it. I get lazy. If that is what they mean. Then a No vote it will be.

            • Posted By: rogerhall @ 11/01/2008 1:26:40 AM

              That's great to hear sheebe, and seriously, best of luck to your family! :}

  • Posted By: lloydn @ 11/17/2008 1:47:51 AM

    One most important fact has been overlooked . 1) Not the FACT that we were founded as a God fearing Nation. 2) Not the FACT that God loves and has great and tender mercies for all CREATED in HIS Image. 3) Not the FACT that we should not have discrimination. 4) Not the FACT that GOD has not changed HIS Supernatural Word (Bible) to agree with our proclivities. 5) But ON this ONE FACT alone, we serve and have been originated by a CREATOR whose manual only supports CREATION. Therefore, ALL same sex relationships cannot procreate or create life in the manner HIS manual has directed. It is God's wish that no creature fashioned from HIS Image should not perish and will have eternal life for those that believe in their hearts abd confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord of ALL.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:00:17 PM

      "Not the FACT that we were founded as a God fearing Nation. "

      That's not a fact, that's a bald-faced lie. We were founded as a secular nation.

      • Posted By: pabaum08 @ 12/10/2008 2:16:27 PM

        Why do you still think god has a gender?

        • Posted By: JustBeingSarah @ 03/04/2009 1:35:04 AM

          I'm not gay and I'm about to be married - I'm sure you are really excited for me.

          However, I can not have children. Does that "invalidate" my marriage too?

          According to your logic, it does. Your logic sucks, my kind sir.

        • Posted By: JustBeingSarah @ 03/04/2009 1:33:42 AM

          I am not gay and I'm about to be married. However, I can't have children - does that "invalidate" my marriage.

          According to your definition... it does.

          Bad arguments.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/19/2008 10:00:26 AM

      Lloydn,

      Nothing that you had posted is FACT, it is ALL religious OPINION and belief. It may be important to you but it is of no value or consequence to many of us. Also, the Us was not founded as a "god fearing" nation. It was, and is a secular nation. Some (or even most of ) its citizens MAY be "god fearing" but that is of no relevance to the country as a whole and completely irrelevant to the government and the law.

      As for the rest of your post,, again YOUR OPINION, not fact in any way shape or form.

      AS for your Jesus, you can keep him, he is unimportant to me. He has no power or value for me, and, as a dead human being, (and that is all that he ever was or will be) he can't save anyone (unless they choose to believe that he can, and even then it is in their minds alone).

  • Posted By: Miss_Tijera08 @ 01/02/2009 5:06:17 AM

    I don't believe in the whole gay marriage thing but at the same time I believe that they are human beings like every one else and they can also fall in love like every one else. I believe that a lot of these people are in love with each other but the whole concept is wrong too. But people are gonna do what they want to do. Only God can be their judge in the end.

  • Posted By: Eliminate missing child fraud! @ 12/24/2008 4:11:01 AM

    Another major problem occurs when one parent falsely claims that his or her child is missing.

    If you know where your child is located, stop claiming that she is missing. Travel to her home to be with her during the holidays. Show her that you care.

    Women are behind the most egregious cases of missing child fraud.

    http://www.ncmec.eu/case.php?Id=1

    Help us put a stop to missing child fraud!

    http://www.ncmec.eu

  • Posted By: KMoore68 @ 12/17/2008 9:45:56 AM

    Congrats to the happy couple. David, if you are reading this, you have my love and respect for allowing others into your life through your writing. I loved reading all about it and wish you both the very best. Celebrating love is a good thing, it is sad that people aren't open-minded enough to let others be or live different from their own existence. It's unrealistic and immature to think others should do everything one way. What a boring, contrived world this would be if we were all the same.
    Love, Best wishes and many blessings to you both,
    Kathryn Moore

  • Posted By: Rev. Spencer @ 12/07/2008 3:10:34 PM

    I have been an ordained minister since 2000 and I am heterasexual, I have never been so proud as when
    I was asked to officiate at a marriage who were two friends of mine who happen to be gay, it was the most
    beautiful wedding and relationships are relationships. They were married in Calif. in August. I only hope
    Prop.8 doesn't ruin their beautiful day.

  • Posted By: Chela_n_Dopey21 @ 11/20/2008 8:44:09 AM

    I agree with that gay man wearing that shirt saying "can i vote on your marrige" its stupid how all the straight people try to take away what we have the right to do just as anyone else..or are we not all created equal we should all have the same rights. All these people can do is hate on us for wanting to be happy, i mean i know alot of people that could care less on what me and my girlfried do..why are people like that, what gives them a right to say what we can and cannot do, their not god, their just like us.

  • Posted By: Andrew Delo @ 11/01/2008 1:23:46 AM

    Theonlytruth:Do you believe that a cow has three legs?
    Me: Would you love a cow with three legs less than a "perfect" cow?
    COME ON!

    Further, I think Jesus, who I am good friends with, will be judging you just the same as I on your prophetic "judgement day".

    The ONLY thing I think proposition 8 does is show just how many people don't consider me to be a living, breathing, human.

    • Posted By: neeka @ 11/01/2008 8:28:40 PM

      This has nothing to do with you being a living, breathing, human. You are as precious as any other human. This is about redefining marriage.

      • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:10:05 PM

        "You are as precious as any other human. "

        As long as he doesn't get uppity and demand equal rights, right?

  • Posted By: robynmaxine @ 11/05/2008 3:31:11 PM

    Ignorance, hate, and bigotry should be painful.

    1) Being gay is not natural.
    (And real American always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, air conditioning, tattoos, piercings and silicon breasts.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay.
    (In the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior.
    (People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. Lamps are next.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all.
    (Hence why women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites,and divorce is still illegal.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed.
    (And we can't let the sanctity of Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage be destroyed.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children.
    (So therefore, gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our population isn't out of control, our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children.
    (Since, of course, straight parents only raise straight children.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion.
    (In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home.
    (Which is exactly why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms.
    (Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Repost this if you believe love makes a marriage; Vote no on Prop. 102 [arizona] no on Prop.
    8 [california]"

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:03:57 PM

      Hilarious!

      Thanks for posting that.

  • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 11/08/2008 9:46:40 AM

    It's not a civil rights issue. It's a acceptance of sexual depravity issue.

    • Posted By: naenaelo @ 11/09/2008 2:28:46 AM

      You are truly ignorant joe6pack.............go figure the Republican party lost..Ha! IGNORANT!!!!!

      • Posted By: neeka @ 11/10/2008 3:29:51 AM

        ....And all three props in three different states for same sex marriage lost too....Ha! The people have spoken.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:02:11 PM

          We'll see how long that lasts.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/09/2008 7:57:48 AM

      Grow up little boy!

      Have your mommy change your diaper.

      It is only depraved in your sick little mind.

      Intelligent adults know it is very much a civil rights issue.

  • Posted By: RandyHiggins @ 11/12/2008 7:53:53 PM

    LGBT Californians have decided to become terrorists because the issues at stake are so important to them. Some are committed to interfering with children and families who attend religious services. Their mob demonstrations cause fear and emotional distress to families attempting to participate in activities at their traditional place of worship. This is not an acceptable response to the democratic initiative process. I am shocked that law enforcement agencies have ignored the children and families affected in favor of the ranting jihadists in the streets.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/19/2008 12:01:31 PM

      "LGBT Californians have decided to become terrorists because the issues at stake are so important to them. Some are committed to interfering with children and families who attend religious services. "

      The right to peacefully assemble is now a terrorist act? LOL. Get a grip.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/13/2008 9:39:56 AM

      To call them terrorists or jihadists is asinine.

      They are protesting. If they violate the law then they shold get arrested but to compare them to mental defectives who use suicide bombs to kill people is so absurd that it can be ignored.

      As far as protesting in front of churches, they have every right to do so. Since the only "valid" reasons that anyone has ever been able to give to deny same-sex marriages are religious one (I put the word valid in quotes because it may be valid to the religion but it is completely invlaid to US or State law), it makes sense to let those who would violate the US Cosntitution by trying to impose religious ideas/rules on US law know that they are contemptable.

  • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 11/06/2008 5:42:49 PM

    Don't worry perverts, the Democrats are in power now and will use the state supreme court to do their dirty work for them. The Democat party is gay for gay marriage. You'll soon be able to force your depravity down our throats.

    VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT IS GAY

    DON'T BE GAY.

    These words will be proven true enough very soon.

    • Posted By: naenaelo @ 11/09/2008 2:32:10 AM

      Now there ya go again Joe, throwing the word gay around as if you really know what it means. It appears you only know what the slang is.....Hatred and ignorance combined with illiteracy makes for one truly depraved individual Joe. Maybe you are gay and hiding behind your obvious homophobia.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/06/2008 7:37:36 PM

      As opposed to you forcing your depraved hatred and idiocy down theirs?

  • Posted By: torqueflite @ 11/07/2008 9:13:22 PM

    Beautiful article, thanks very much for stating the case so well. Best wishes to you in your wedded life.

  • Posted By: TieRaid @ 11/07/2008 8:43:27 AM

    Is this our notion of Civil Rights?
    This electorate has had the honor to elect the United States first non-white President, and yet, by the stroke of the same pen, chosen to revoke the rights of some of our fellow Americans.
    To have chosen to rescind the right of marriage from same sex couples is no less offensive than if the ballot had been to deny marriage to inter-racial couples, inter-faith couples or those who do not subscribe to a Christian faith.
    Who in all good conscience could argue that the full recognition of love should be denied to two people based off race, creed or color? That we should hold gender of that list will be seen as an anathema. The love that two people can feel for one another can be no less intense, and deserving of recognition, given any combination of the above.
    It really is time that all Americans elect to stand up and support each other???s rights. The choice that one American makes as to whom they give their love, and may wish to marry, has no greater impact on us than their choice of coffee in the morning.

  • Posted By: neeka @ 11/06/2008 10:23:19 PM

    This election has given me true hope in the American people. We have our first African-American President which is something many people thought they would never see. Also many thought gay marriage would remain legal but THREE states voted it to be banned! Hallelujah! This is a great country, God bless our country!

  • Posted By: sadday @ 11/06/2008 10:18:40 AM

    While we're debunking myths about "traditional marriage", lets look at the Mormons and the theocratic state of Utah that they settled away from the rest of the then-United States in order to escape the religious prosecution they were facing for practicing polygamy.. and the fact that the first two applications of Utah to enter the United States failed because they still practiced polygamy. Want to restore the "traditional marriage definition"? Sure, I'm all for bringing back polygamy!

    And while I'm still on the topic.. Christianity may preach that homosexuality is against the teachings of the bible.. but what about all of us who aren't Christians? My religion says that homosexuality is perfectly normal and acceptable, and has no problem marrying two men or two women who love eachother and want to bind themselves together. I wish the silly Christians would get their noses out of my legislature. It doesn't belong there.

  • Posted By: lou0912 @ 11/05/2008 9:25:03 AM

    Here is the problem. Gay people already have the same rights as Heterosexual people. As a Heterosexual, I cannot go out and marry another woman any more the a Gay person can. Call it what it is, Gays do not want the same rights as Heterosexuals, they want special ones. I am for Civil Unions that give people that live together access to the legal benefits of their partners (which I also think should cover Heterosexuals that choose not to marry their partner to make it fair). Marriage is a religious based institution and religion's rule book, The Bible, defines marriage as between a man and a woman and says it is immoral and wrong for a man to lay with another man (or woman and woman). If Gays want so much to partake in an institution that has it's basis and foundings in religion then they need to accept everything about that religion and the bible it follows. You should not be able to pick and choose.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/05/2008 3:17:29 PM

      "Marriage is a religious based institution and religion's rule book, The Bible, defines marriage as between a man and a woman and says it is immoral and wrong for a man to lay with another man (or woman and woman). "

      That is totally irrelavant to US law and anyone who tries to make the law based i that man-made book is in clear violatin of the US Constitution.

  • Posted By: valueallfamilies @ 11/05/2008 2:26:54 PM

    We can all go on and on about this but this is what is going to happen. Prop 8 will be the last battle won by the religous right on denying gay rights. Celebrate all you want but gay equality is unstopable. First the voters were against it 80%, then 70%, then prop 22 passes by 62%. Now prop 8 sqeaks by with 52%. You do the math. The younger generation is against discrimination. The older generation is for discrimination. Guess what? The anti gay movement needs the older voters. The progay movement doesn't. What happens to old people? They die. Everyday anti-gay voters are replaced with progay voters. A net gain anyway for the gays. You won your last battle. I am gay and got married Nov 3rd. I have already called my lawyer to start a lawsuit that prop 8 discriminates against me. Just like the people did against prop 22. The surpreme court will rule in my favor because I am right. By then your little 52% win will become 49% or less. You may have this laugh but you wont have the last. The dominance of the Democratic party (pro-equality) over the caveman Republican (pro-discrimination) party last night restores my faith in this country. It is the dawn of a new era in this country. The musgraves of this country went down hard yesterday. Americans are tired of this kind of politics. The only reason prop 8 even got 52% was the outrageous advertising which was a bunch of lies. Maybe the mormon church should spend some of that money down in the "compound" and try to figure out who is the father to what child....Even the mormon church is being torn apart over this because the younger members actually know gay people and realize that all the garbage that they are told about gays is wrong. I leave all of you gay people and gay supporters with this:

    "I fear not, I see not reason for fear. In the end we will be the victors. For though at times the flame of liberty may cease to shine, the ember will never expire."
    Thomas Paine US patriot & political philosopher (1737 - 1809)

  • Posted By: valueallfamilies @ 11/05/2008 2:08:02 PM

    www.valueallfamilies.com

  • Posted By: dalixan @ 11/05/2008 1:26:16 PM

    For those who voted for the ban - SHAME ON YOU!!!! For those who support equal rights and are NOT afraid, please rise up and speak out. This is WRONG. The Federal government won't count GLBT persons because it doesn't want to acknowledge their existence. States wish to segregate the GLBT community by simply telling us where we can live safely. Do not think that the opposition will stop. The right-wing fundalmentalist movemement's agenda includes further discrimination and taking away the few rights we currently enjoy. Rise up, speak out, be seen and heard. Our time will come - just look at what PRESIDENT OBAMA has achieved!!!

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