Roe v. Wade v. Kristi

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  • Posted By: modern_realist @ 11/07/2008 1:21:36 AM

    As a proud Christian woman, you did your duty. You went and voted. And the Personhood Amendment of 2012 passed! Your wedding has just occurred and you really don't mind having your honeymoon at the precinct courthouse in a 6x6 room. It's better than having a cold stranger in the room when you lose your virginity.
    The time comes and you and your husband get intimate for the first time. The sensations you feel are more powerful than you believed they would be. But, due to both of your inexperience, the encounter lasts only a really short time. After snuggling for awhile, the two of you feel like giving in another go. You begin to kiss, your arms wrap around each other in a warm embrace, and intercourse begins again.
    BOOM!
    The door comes flying in and outfitted troopers storm the room and pull the two of you apart. You watch as they handcuff your naked husband and drag him out of the room.
    "What's the meaning of this?" you demand, but a female officer has already begun reading you your rights.
    "According to our information, you have more than 2 dozen cells dividing and clinging to your uterine wall. That BEAST," she says while glaring in the direction they dragged your husband helplessly, "is guilty of criminal sexual assault of a MINOR." Now you're confused. You just got married. How can this be happening?
    "We haven't done anything wrong, officer," you plead.
    "'WE?'" she begins, incredulously. "I had ASSUMED that he forcibly mounted you and began penetration. If you did it willingly, that makes you an accessory."
    That's right, you forgot. Life can begin the VERY FIRST TIME you have sex. If only the education system had made that clearer to you, you might have remembered and taken precautions. But now you realize that, yes, you are in fact guilty of the crime. And considering the nature of the crime, you will not be allowed to raise this or any other child you may have. Let alone you will probably never see you husband again. Prison inmates are notoriously heavy-handed when it comes to dealing with CHILD ABUSERS like him.

  • Posted By: Just thinking @ 11/10/2008 9:20:45 AM

    Anytime you impose your will over another it is wrong. We don't allow slavery in this country ... let's keep it that way.

  • Posted By: singingfrog66 @ 11/06/2008 11:37:01 PM

    The amendment failed and received less than 27 per cent of the vote. Keep your religion out of my government, as it should be. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.

    • Posted By: dolorescranston @ 11/09/2008 12:09:27 AM

      Keep his spirm out of your eggs, as it should be. If you want to have sex, take responsibility for the baby.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/09/2008 7:57:15 AM

        It is nto a "baby" unitl it is born.

        IF she decided to have the baby you can be sure she would take responsibility for it. Until then it is her choice alone.

  • Posted By: be_real14 @ 11/07/2008 1:19:44 PM

    Wow im very surprised how many WOMEN are for turing over Roe v. Wade. You do know what it all means right? Not that women have much rights to began with espically on fed. land (tribes ect.) but taking away the right to CHOOSE after WE WOMEN have come this far to even be able to vote much less having the RIGHT to be posting our own comments is plain out STUPID think about it for a min. what about the women who get raped the women who get raped by their own FAMILY for them not to have a choice after what they have been through is sick!or the women who do become pregnant but find out the baby is growing in the tubes not in the womb! could DIE both the child and the mother come on WOMEN think about it were still under men but were trying why would you want to take away your own rights?

  • Posted By: singingfrog66 @ 11/06/2008 11:37:45 PM

    The amendment failed and received less than 27 per cent of the vote. Keep your religion out of my government, as it should be. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.

  • Posted By: silasdodgen @ 11/06/2008 5:59:32 PM

    The fact that so many people end up resorting to abortion as a means of birth contol is a sad testament to the carelessness and irresponsibility of so many Americans. With all our sex education and the easy and universal availability of contraceptives, it is amazing to me that our society still has so many unwanted pregnancies. Sure, there's gonna be "heat of the moment" sexual adventures, but what's so difficult about remembering to whip out the rubber? Contraception is so simple and easy in our sophisticated society that there is simply no excuse for an unwanted pregnancy, much less the need to abort an unwanted baby. And, with some some exceptions, most Americans who are opposed to abortion have no problem with contraception, so the moral dilemma is completely avoided. C'mon, people! What's so hard about this?

  • Posted By: AntiBigBrother @ 11/06/2008 3:59:56 PM

    (spelling error correction)
    Anyone traveling outside the country or overseas is required to have a valid passport, even small childeren and infants. This is for their protection and to prove that they are in fact accompanied by their parent(s) or legal guardian(s).
    If you take the pro-lifer's beliefs to legally establish that an unborn fetus is a person with constitutional rights, then that means that unborn fetuses will ALL be required to have an ultrasound picture ID and a Social Security Number. This also means that EVERY airport and port of entry will have an ultasound security checkpoint for ALL women of childbearing age, and security personnel will have to be trained to visually & accurately verify the ultrasound ID to the security machine image. What happens to a woman who doesn't/didn't know that she is/was pregnant? Can she then be arrested/detained for illegally transporting an unborn "person" across national borders or state lines? You have to look at things past the point of where your beliefs originate, not just the issue of whether or not an abortion is murder. Anti-abortion laws will only take away freedoms and free will from people by allowing for a very Orwellian and 1984ish type of society.

  • Posted By: AntiBigBrother @ 11/06/2008 3:51:02 PM

    Anyone traveling outside the country or overseas is required to have a valid passport, even small childeren and infants. This is for their protection and to prove that they are in fact accompanied by their parent(s) or legal guardian(s).
    If you take the pro-lifer's beliefs to legally establish that an unborn fetus is a person with constitutional rights, then that means that unborn fetuses will ALL be required to have an ultrasound picture ID and a Social Security Number. This also means that EVERY airport and port of entry will have an ultasound secueity checkpoint for ALL women of childbearing age, and security personnel will have to be trained to visually & accurately verify the ultrasound ID to the security machine image. What happens to a woman who doesn't/didn't know that she is/was pregnant? Can she then be arrested/detained for illegally transporting an unborn "person" across national borders or state lines? You have to look at things past the point of where your beliefs originate, not just the issue of whether or not an abortion is murder. Anti-abortion laws will only take away freedoms and free will from people by allowing for a very Orwellian and 1984ish type of society.

  • Posted By: Alouwischus @ 11/06/2008 10:11:51 AM

    Hooray for, thanks to and God Bless Kristi Burton! That which is conceived in the womb of a human woman is a life in process from conception until death, natural or unnatural. To think contrary defies all science and theology. What if someone were to murder a 60 year old and cop a plea of late term abortion? Any difference between seconds after or years after conception? I think and believe not! "Let no man, including woman, put asunder what I (God) have put together."

    • Posted By: Just thinking @ 11/06/2008 2:23:33 PM

      Ahhh ... why do so many so-called Christians not familiar with God's word? God does NOT say anything about a women's choice. Jesus, the son of God, stood by Mary M. and asked those who were without sin to cast the first stone. I wonder how many abortions she had during her lifetime. It is God who works in us NOT you! To judge and condemn someone who you don't know - who you wouldn't know if you passed them on the street - to take YOUR self-righteous interpretation of the Bible is not being a Christian.

      The Lord doesn't see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." ~ 1 Samuel 16:7

      For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost. ~ Luke 19:10



  • Posted By: Just thinking @ 11/06/2008 2:14:20 PM

    A fertilized chicken egg ... does NOT make it a chicken. It is yolk and membrane and unable to survive outside of the egg. It is not in any sense of the word a chicken.

  • Posted By: phoenixrising @ 11/06/2008 8:59:27 AM

    I'm relieved to hear that this proposition didn't pass. The legal implications of making a mass of dividing cells defined as a person have not been fully explored. Just off the top of my head...would embryos, zygotes and fetuses then have the ability to vote, since under law, they would be US citizens? Since they can't physically vote, could their mothers then vote in their place, thus casting two votes? This is a very intrusive idea, akin to forcing our police to make sure that mothers don't smoke, eat too much or the wrong foods or drink during pregnancy. I don't know about you, but I consider my body to be *mine*. Some women feel that smoking or drinking a bit during pregnancy are okay, considering that women have done so for decades and their children are just fine - so could they now be charged for abuse? And who would determine what abuse has taken place, especially since one can't always prove or see that drinking/smoking has harmed a fetus until it is born? For all those paying attention to the Bible, it repeatedly mentions "breathing life" into people and "the breath of life.". Because of these statements, I believe that life begins when a baby breathes. Again, your obsession with potential life (it's really a fetus fetish, just admit it) makes you turn a blind eye to real, actualized life. You don't care about the mother, just the mass of dividing cells in her body that may or may not become a real, live baby (miscarriages, fatal birth defects, etc.).

  • Posted By: SkeeterVT @ 11/03/2008 4:08:28 PM

    I think another reason why the anti-abortion movement (I refuse to call it "pro-life" for many of these same people hypocritically support capital punishment) is wary of Amendment 48 is because its premise -- that a fertilized egg is a human person -- is a thinly-disguised adaptation into state law of the religious doctrine that life begins at the moment of conception and thus would run afoul of the First Amendment's explicit ban on establishment of a state religion.

    • Posted By: ZappoDaClown @ 11/06/2008 3:44:47 AM

      I guess that goes both ways, then. You are pro abortion (innocent life) and against capital punishment (NOT innocent life). What 's the deal? Whose the baddie in the two scenarios?.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/06/2008 8:20:01 AM

        Actually your argumetn is not completely valid. Since since has NOT definitively defined an embryo or fetus as a life per se, it can be argued that the term "pro-life" is not valid or belonmgs to those who support the woman (since everyone can agree that she is life), There are many pro-choice people who are [personally opposed to abortion but realize that thier religious veiws must never be used as the bais for US law. There are otehrs who personally think that a fetus is a life but realize that science has not made thta absolute determination so they feel that their beliefs should nto be made into law. There are others who would never ahve an abortion on thier own but realize that medicine recognises since a 4 month old fetus is not (and never has been) an independently viable lifeform, that there are serious legal issues involved. Therby calling all pro-choice people "pro-abortion" is factally incorrect.

  • Posted By: SkeeterVT @ 11/03/2008 4:09:03 PM

    I think another reason why the anti-abortion movement (I refuse to call it "pro-life" for many of these same people hypocritically support capital punishment) is wary of Amendment 48 is because its premise -- that a fertilized egg is a human person -- is a thinly-disguised adaptation into state law of the religious doctrine that life begins at the moment of conception and thus would run afoul of the First Amendment's explicit ban on establishment of a state religion.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:26:13 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 11/06/2008 8:12:52 AM

        The problem with your claim is that an organism is not the same as a life. And especially it is not the same thing as an independently viable life. The law IS able to make that determination. Science has not said that a fetus is the same thing or of the same life status as the woman carryig it. THAT is the main issue with regards the law.

        Your science lesson may be germaine to whether an embryo or fetus was created at conception may be a valid scieintific point but is fails miserably in the greater question as to whether it is a viable life in the legal sense of word. On that issue Pasteur's experiment is quiet

  • Posted By: DrewCAENG @ 11/06/2008 7:28:34 AM

    Excuse me but wouldnt "God" want us to help the millions of Americans suffering with the over 50 diseases that stem cell research can cure? Let me get this right Republicans are against big government, yet they want to tell you who you can or cant marry, tap your phones and force millions of young mothers into back allys for abortions with metal clothing hangers. Simply making things illigal does not get people to stop doing it! Especailly when they are backed into a literal dark corner.

  • Posted By: DrewAri @ 11/06/2008 7:25:15 AM

    Excuse me but wouldnt "God" want us to help the millions of Americans suffering with the over 50 diseases that stem cell research can cure? Let me get this right Republicans are against big government, yet they want to tell you who you can or cant marry, tap your phones and force millions of young mothers into back allys for abortions with metal clothing hangers. Simply making things illigal does not get people to stop doing it! Especailly when they are backed into a literal dark corner.

  • Posted By: mrchuckhall @ 11/06/2008 7:05:12 AM

    I wish I'd known about this initiative when it might have been possible to support it. Personhood, from the time of conception to the time of natural death is exactly the issue. But we live in what some have called "The Culture of Death", and even the statements in this article by the various Right To Life groups prove it. For someone to say, "Now is not the right time to do this" is patently absurd. When is the right time to stop people from killing people?

    I say kudos to Kristi Burton, and encourage one and all to consider what John Paul 2 called "The Theology of the Body" for a profound examination of what constitutes a human being and what will make that human being happy.

    Thanks for your time.

  • Posted By: silasdodgen @ 11/05/2008 5:23:13 PM

    "It's very rare when a 'Pro-Life' person remembers to be 'Pro Life' once these babies are outside of the womb."--Now that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Makes me wonder how many pro-life people you actually know. I actually have known many pro-life people, and without exception they have the utmost regard for life in all stages.

    • Posted By: AnAmericanForFreedom @ 11/06/2008 12:19:11 AM

      Did you hear? Pro-lifers want to take away birth control, plan B, and most forms of birth control? It's their way of getting around Roe V Wade. They want life to begin -before- conception... Nice... Not only do they want to know what is going on with my body (Kansas Gov. wants women to report a miscarriage or face jail time no matter the stage) they want to take away any ability to make a personal and mature health care decision! Personally, I need the pill to combat PMDD and regulate ovarian cysts... Apparently they want me screaming in pain every month for days on end and risk a condom break.

      • Posted By: ZappoDaClown @ 11/06/2008 3:34:18 AM

        Ummm...that's not true. Pro life folks don't like the I.U.D because (by the way, it's not so safe for the woman either) it doesn't allow an ALREADY fertilized egg implant (life), and the Plan B pill is also about aborting the ALREADY fertilized egg. Those are the only two incidents that I know of. How could limiting birth control help anyone get around Roe vs. Wade? (by the way the woman used in that trial has lived with years of regret over being involved and wants it over turned).

  • Posted By: lildiamond @ 11/05/2008 8:06:56 PM

    To everyone who thinks that they know what is wrong and what is right: I say do as the Bible says and DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS. That is up to God, not man.
    Unless you have been faced with rape or incest and then a subsequest pregnancy, please do not attempt to tell women what they should and should not do with their bodies. Imgine how good a woman would be as a mother is she did not want to raise the child of her rapist!!! I'm sure that child would have a GREAT life.
    Further, many women who have abortions do so because it is necessary. There are thousands of birth defects in which the fetus will die wither in utero or soon after birth, and diseases which can threaten maternal life, so again, the decision to have an abortion is BETWEEN HER DOCTOR AND GOD! Stay the hell out of the exam room!
    Why is it that the Pro-Life crowd is hell bent on saving fetal lives, but couldn't give a flying F--- about war and genocide...Perhaps the Pro-Lifers should go to Iraq, Congo, Afganistan, Sudan, etc. and save the lives of PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY ALIVE AND SUFFERING.
    The fact is that life is rarely black and white; life is shades of grey. Think about that before you pass judgement onto others...didn't Jesus say not to judge others?????

    • Posted By: ZappoDaClown @ 11/06/2008 3:23:29 AM

      okay, follow me here. Every single law in our country is about judgment...a discerning right from wrong. If you disagree with a law, you have the right to petition to change it. If you don't like the petition, you don't sign it. To say "don't judge" is immature thinking and an invalid argument. We all judge right from wrong. Some people use their feelings as their guide (sadly inefficient) and some use a tool like the Bible, what they understand to be God's word. If you don't want to judge anything, then don't leave your house, don't turn on the tv, don't read the paper. You are going to see things you will judge one way or the other.

      Here's the deal--I'm drinking, I'm driving and don't judge me because it's my body, my choice. Oh, you say, but you might kill someone. I say heck with you, I want to do this, it makes me happy. If I don't do this then I'm not happy and I have the right to be happy, no matter what.

      So here's what we're saying. You don't have the RIGHT to kill anyone, no matter their state of development, or the happenstance to have been formed in your womb--to end a life is just that, ending a life. Please don't.

    • Posted By: SoCalLutheran @ 11/05/2008 8:48:45 PM

      We are not passing judgement.
      We are trying to stop an injustice.
      We need laws. Is sending murderers and thieves to jail passing judgment? if it is, do you really think we should stop that? if it isn't than how is tring to stop abortion passing judgment?

  • Posted By: filmcrazygirl @ 11/05/2008 12:31:11 PM

    leave women alone, this is no ones choice but their own and i cannot believe anyone would force a women to carry a full term pregnancy and force them to bring up an unwanted child for the next 18 years, banning abortion will only lead to huge increases in back alley abortions, women dying, babies being dumped or abused, focus your time, money and attention on reducing abortions, education is the key, morning after pill for condom mishaps and maybe even free birth control pills for women but nobody should be able to dictate what another women does with her body.

    • Posted By: emiceek @ 11/05/2008 4:39:45 PM

      If you don't want children, keep your legs crossed, dumb ***. Otherwise, be prepared to accept responsibility for moments of passion.

      • Posted By: AnAmericanForFreedom @ 11/06/2008 12:25:49 AM

        Nice... The first resource of someone with nothing constructive to say and the last resort of a desperate party losing an argument. I would be typing for days to say what is wrong with this reply.

  • Posted By: DavidTall @ 11/05/2008 2:06:05 PM

    I am making no comment on the right or wrong of the amendment. Think about this question, if a fertilized egg is considered a person then the "person" is obviously a minor. Would the intake of substances by the mother then be considered providing the substances to a minor. Also, what about restaurants? Would a restaurant be liable for knowingly providing alcohal to a minor if it served an obviously pregnant woman? Could the government about a legal guardian for the fetus if teh mother smoked or drank? Could a mother on drugs be forcably incarcerated during the pregnancy?

    • Posted By: AnAmericanForFreedom @ 11/06/2008 12:22:20 AM

      That is EXACTLY what I want to know... I didn't know I was pregnant for two months due to irregular periods... Under the new law would that be abuse, attempted murder, neglect? And I see a lot of mothers smoking full term, while breastfeeding, etc... Is this abuse? Apparently not now..

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