Common ground on this issue could be met if both sides agreed to the fact that life begins when brain waves are present. This is how the end of life is determined...why not the beginning?
Common ground on this issue could be met if both sides agreed to the fact that life begins when brain waves are present. This is how the end of life is determined...why not the beginning?
This issue was decided a long time ago via Roe v Wade, so it's time for the pro-lifers to focus their money & attention on all the unwanted children currently living in this country. When they adopt all of the crack babies and poor children who flounder in our foster care system, then maybe they can preach their anti-abortion agenda. Until then, what I do with MY BODY is MY CHOICE!
Completely ridiculous for it to always be referred to as MY BODY and MY CHOICE. As if MY BODY and MY CHOICE (as a man) had nothing to do with you getting pregnant to begin with. Honestly, YOUR BODY? Really, have you ever even looked at a 12 week fetus? You telling me there is not another "body" in there?
Funny thing how early feminists like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton actually opposed abortion, isn't it? Oh wait it's not cause they actually wanted equality for EVERYONE. They wanted equality for minorities too. They were not closed-minded believed everyone should have the right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
One problem with pro-life stances is that some people believe that it is OK for pharmicists to refuse to dispense birth control because it offends their view on abortion. Regardless of your position on this issue, I think most people can agree that the fewer unwanted pregnancies there are, the less abortions will occur.
One problem with some pro-life stances is that some people believe that pharmicists shouldn't provide birth control because it offends their religious views against abortion. Regardless of your position on this issue, I think people can agree that the fewer unwanted pregnancies we have the fewer abortions we will have.
Opponents of abortion do not wish to "dictate what another woman does with her body." This silly argument is irrelevant to real issue. Opponents of abortion believe there is another body involved: the body of the unborn child. Nature has dictated that the female bear the offspring until birth. It is hard for some people to understand why the fact that the woman's body houses the body of the unborn child somehow gives her the right to arbitrarily decide to kill the body growing inside hers. It takes a male and a female to make a baby. Why does the female have the sole right to arbitrarily decide to kill the offspring, when the male has an equal role in reproduction? If a woman can decide to kill the offspring, why can the man not arbitrarily decide to kill the offspring if its existence is deemed to inconvenience him?
Opponents of abortion do not wish to "dictate what another woman does with her body." This silly argument is irrelevant to real issue. Opponents of abortion believe there is another body involved: the body of the unborn child. Nature has dictated that the female bear the offspring until birth. It is hard for some people to understand why the fact that the woman's body houses the body of the unborn child somehow gives her the right to arbitrarily decide to kill the body growing inside hers. It takes a male and a female to make a baby. Why does the female have the sole right to arbitrarily decide to kill the offspring, when the male has an equal role in reproduction? If a woman can decide to kill the offspring, why can the man not arbitrarily decide to kill the offspring if its existence is deemed to inconvenience him?
This issue baffles me. Ok. Let's do some critical thinking. Kids are having sex. They are getting pregnant. The ones who don't have abortions for age, financial, emotional reasons are throwing their newborns is the microwave, in the dumpster, trying to flush them down the damn toilet. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE OF THIS ON THE NEWS WHEN I START MY DAY. KEEP ROE VS. WADE AND FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON ABSTINENCE AWARENESS CHANGE THE PROBLEM DON'T BE A BLEEDING HEART.
You are right to a certain degree. Lets take a step back....what is wrong? We have, for some reason, decided that no one is responsible for their own actions anymore. It is the fault of society...all problems are all of a sudden our fault instead of placed with the individual. If a woman CHOOSES to have unprotected sex she is not responsible for her own actions???? The key word here is "chooses" IF she did not make the choice (rape..as in Roe V Wade) she should then be able to choose. If she chose to have sex she has already made her choice. All people need to be held accountable for their actions. This being said, maybe we need to have more education on the subject. If we take abortion as a form of birth control off the table, refine Roe V Wade, maybe we can get back to a more sensible solution. Anytime we make something acceptable and or common place we lend tacet approval to it. We are telling our children it is ok to have illicit sex, even the parents trying to teach abstinence are being udercut by society because society is saying it is ok. This is a very complicated issue that cannot be isolated, the answer will have to include reworking our adoption laws, making it easier for common people to adopt unwanted babies. It is hard for me to understand anyone not wanting a baby, it seems like the grandparents would not want their grandchild to be aborted. However if no one in the family wants the baby it should have the apportunity to go to a home where it will be loved and wanted.
This issue baffles me. Ok. Let's do some critical thinking. Kids are having sex. They are getting pregnant. The ones who don't have abortions for age, financial, emotional reasons are throwing their newborns is the microwave, in the dumpster, trying to flush them down the damn toilet. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE OF THIS ON THE NEWS WHEN I START MY DAY. KEEP ROE VS. WADE AND FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON ABSTINENCE AWARENESS CHANGE THE PROBLEM DON'T BE A BLEEDING HEART.
And how arrogant to assume I haven't adopted children.
Funny how you never broached my argument about your imposition of your religious beliefs on those who choose not to believe them. Well if you can't win an argument name call and feign discrimination. Sounds like the rights normal standard practice.
From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.
Comment: The problem with your claim is that an organism is not the same as a life. And especially it is not the same thing as an independently viable life. The law IS able to make that determination. Science has not said that a fetus is the same thing or of the same life status as the woman carryig it. THAT is the main issue with regards the law.
Your science lesson may be germaine to whether an embryo or fetus was created at conception may be a valid scieintific point but is fails miserably in the greater question as to whether it is a viable life in the legal sense of word. On that issue Pasteur's experiment is quiet
You can be charged with a crime without intent. There are laws whereby if you are grossly negligent (say in the case of doing other things while driving and you hit someone) but not necessarily with the intent to hurt someone you can still be charged with vehiciular homicide.
Those of us who take a scientific apporach to determine what we believe could easily make the argument that a baby born before a certain point cannot possibly survive on their own and therefore are not "alive" by science terms. With this being the case I see no way you could provide protections to a fertilized egg anymore you can to a corpse as neither are alive by those terms.
Stop trying to subject others to your religious beliefs. If I wanted those beliefs I would go to church with you every sunday wednesday and saturday afternoon. Not your body, not your decision, not your business. If we could only get 1/2 the religous zealots in this country to adopt a baby we would never need state run foster care. Seems their "caring" only lasts until the baby is born and then it becomes not your problem.
From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.
Comment: The problem with your claim is that an organism is not the same as a life. And especially it is not the same thing as an independently viable life. The law IS able to make that determination. Science has not said that a fetus is the same thing or of the same life status as the woman carryig it. THAT is the main issue with regards the law.
Your science lesson may be germaine to whether an embryo or fetus was created at conception may be a valid scieintific point but is fails miserably in the greater question as to whether it is a viable life in the legal sense of word. On that issue Pasteur's experiment is quiet
If I don't have a right to tell strange men what to do with their testicles, nobody should have the right to determine what happens (or not) within the confines of my uterus. So what is next? If a fertilized egg is a "PERSON" and a woman suffers a miscarriage it opens the door to examinations of that woman's conduct: A miscarriage would then equal criminal behavior like child endargerment, or negligent conduct...Did she forget to take her prenatal vitamins? Did she have a cup of coffee? Was she smoking? Why was she working a full-time job, when she needed to be in the kitchen, barefoot?! Where does the intrusion stop? When did the American female become a mere incubator?
So, what happens to those "PERSONS" after they are born to parents that don't want them? To a parent or parents that cannot take care of them? Cannot afford them? Parents that don't have health insurance? Parents that lost their jobs? Is Ms. Kristy (and supporters) going to adopt them all...give them ALL loving homes?! Nope. These "PERSONS" are going to fall into the system (any system): the welfare system, the foster care system, the prison system...take your pick. Systems that are supported by MY TAXES...my hard-fought, sweat-off my forehead, taxes. So thanks but, no thanks!
Either this country starts really educating children about sex, develop a more inclusive adoption system, "clean-up" Roe v. Wade (to make it really work in the way that it was intended), OR we do none of the above declare fertilized eggs to be "PERSONS," eliminate sex-education completely, and then increase my taxes to I can "gladly pay more...to stop murdering unborn people." Because it makes perfect sense that interest's of human cellular material are MORE important than the interests of hard-working americans who are ACTUALLY, CURRENTLY walking the earth. Perfect sense.
From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.
Comment: The problem with your claim is that an organism is not the same as a life. And especially it is not the same thing as an independently viable life. The law IS able to make that determination. Science has not said that a fetus is the same thing or of the same life status as the woman carryig it. THAT is the main issue with regards the law.
Your science lesson may be germaine to whether an embryo or fetus was created at conception may be a valid scieintific point but is fails miserably in the greater question as to whether it is a viable life in the legal sense of word. On that issue Pasteur's experiment is quiet
Whoever want abortion illegal should take, raise, nurture, pay food and medicall bills of those borned children. Hm I think not. Pro lifers only care that women are forced to give birth after that they give a damn. I had worked on childrens rights and i have faced physical, mental and sexual (child porn, human traffic), and its rare to see prolifers dealing with this real evil. Unwated children end death soon or later, abused by their parents, orphanages, or in the sex industry. Its a total lie the myth about giving kids for adoption. US has a very very burocratric system for adoptions to the point that even the wealthy and celebrities have to go to adopt to foreing countries. All people has the right to do with their bodies whatever they want. And whatever is in it its our decision what to do with it. Illegalize abortion takes away the fundamental right and control of your body. And please when a woman doesn't want a kid, she doesn't want it period. If care about a woman having an abortion then take care of the kid in all aspects, otherwise shut up. I think the goverment should pass a law where prolifers and churches must take care of the children of women forced to give birth. By the way is totally unfair for the middle class mantain unnecesarilly more kids and their mothers. Its easy to say don't have an abortion, its sin ,bla, bla, but wash their hands afterwards. Pro lifers should start taking care of the poor children, those in orphanages, those recovered from human traffic, becauese they sound more like pro hipocrites than pro life. Satrt helping those kids in extreme need, instead of wasting money, and bringing more unecesarily mouth to feeds creating future criminals and parasites of society. Star helping and not trying to screw up more this already decadent society.
Since, conservatives typically are the ones who are pro-life as well as for lower taxes, I want for those people to ponder this issue that is never addressed. Fact: the highest % of women that have abortions are from low-income families. Now, if abortion is outlawed that will mean these low income families are going to grow in size and have even more trouble financially taking care of themselves. When poor families can not take care of themselves the government has to step in to assist the family financially either through subsidized housing, healthcare and or food stamps. If the size of these low-income families increase then they will need even more assistance from the government then they already receive. Who is going to pay for these increases? You got it the tax payer, the same tax payer who is Pro-life and also wants lower taxes. Also, in areas where there are large groups of low income families, statistically speaking there will be a higher crime rate. If there is a high crime rate that means the community is going to want to increase the local law enforcement. By increasing the local law enforcement, the local taxes are going to be increased in order to pay for the increased budget of the local law enforcement.
Now will an economic conservative who is Pro-life and wants lower taxes please explain to me how you can socially and economically solved this issue. Oh, yeah I forgot to mention most conservatives are against preventive healthcare approaches. Because abstinence only teachings have been doing wonders. (Note the sarcasm).
And by "poor" we mean "minority".
No "beefy"...I am a white male from a family of 9, primarily because my family was Catholic, and we were VERY poor. Your comment just goes to show that you are a racist who would love nothing more than to see the minority population explode and slowly destroy itself in the inner cities of America as more and more people try to scrape a living with fewer and fewer opportunities. Clear your mind of this blind fanaticism that makes you so much better than other humans (who are also created in God's image) and THAT truth will set you free.
Here's a big problem with the proposal: a fertilized egg can still be aborted due to the effects of contraceptives, which many Christians still use. And I'm not just talking about the "morning-after" pill RU-486...any contraceptive that prevents the egg from attaching to and growing within the uterine lining has that effect, even if the egg has been fertilized. Will all Christians now abandon the use of these measures in order to respect the sanctity of ALL life?
I have been saying it for years - the only way to defeat the anti-choice crowd is to push them to the logical extremes of their ideology. This whole "life begins at conception, therefore abortion is murder" position is indeed untenable when taken to its logical conclusion: if this is the case, then there ought to be NO exceptions for rape or incest, and NO exceptions for the health, or maybe even the life, of the mother. If an embryo is a person, then pregnant women can be charged with endangering the welfare of a minor for eating mahi mahi (mercury!), changing the litter box, or smoking a cigarette. They should be able to drive in the carpool lane and should pay for two tickets at the movies or theater. And, since up to one third of all conceptions spontaneously abort within the first few weeks (often before the woman is even aware she was pregnant), the police will need to devise ways of determining the cause of death for failed conceptions, and prosecute accordingly if the miscarriage was caused by the actions of the mother (strenuous activity, alcohol consumption, poor diet, etc.). (This actually happened for years in Nepal - hundreds of women who miscarried babies were jailed for murder.)
These are just some of the implications of declaring embryos "people." I think that the lack of support this bond issue in Colorado is getting proves that even many die-hard anti-choicers don't completely buy their own rhetoric. Now if only the rest of them would stop trying to shove it down our throats.
From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.
Beefy: FYI, I'm a Ph.d too, and if you were any kind of good scientist you would know that science doesn't traffic in truth claims, only evidence. And evidence is open to interpretation, which makes your absurd statement that the matter of when human life begins was settled in Pasteur's day meaningless, as the debate has philosophical as well as physiological dimensions. And not only does the question of when human life begins have philosophical dimensions, it is also socially constructed differently by different cultures and religious traditions, so even if the matter were settled in the scientific community, it wouldn't mean squat to people whose cultural of religious traditions told them differently.
The problem with your claim is that an organism is not the same as a life. And especially it is not the same thing as an independently viable life. The law IS able to make that determination. Science has not said that a fetus is the same thing or of the same life status as the woman carryig it. THAT is the main issue with regards the law.
Your science lesson may be germaine to whether an embryo or fetus was created at conception may be a valid scieintific point but is fails miserably in the greater question as to whether it is a viable life in the legal sense of word. On that issue Pasteur's experiment is quiet.
I guess if that's the case; shouldn't we accuse God of murder after miscarriages? Not such a simplistic idea...is it?
Let's face it, most women are addicted to abortions, and the only way to stop is through legislation. Most of my female friends go out every weekend, get drunk, and go home with some guy just so they can get their eggs fertilized so they can abort them. Women find the psychological aspects of having an abortion a rush, just like us Republicans find the death penalty the best drug since...well, no other! 80% of us Republicans favor the death penalty, so it shocks me that us Republicans also want to ban abortions. Why on Earth do we want to give away our god given right to kill? We talk about our soldiers killing innocent people so that we may have the right to kill some more. Let's not forget that our soldiers that are fighting for our rights to kill, and we shouldn't then ban abortions.
Most women are addicted to abortions? Just because all the ladies you know are promiscuous and irresponsible doesn't mean that most women are.
Libertylover17776. So, do you have their phone numbers? I promise to call!!!! I have yet to find a woman who likes to hook up just to have a DNC ------- retard.
jjjjjs,
methinks you should grab a Websters and look up the definition of sarcasm.
Sounds completely unenforceable, if you believe in women's "personhood". Would a woman (of childbearing age) having a drink need to be "investigated" (prove you aren't carrying a zygote, ma'am) for child abuse? Would the police need to be called whenever a woman had an abnormal discharge, because she could be naturally miscarrying? Would women need to certify their virginity, celibacy, or post-menopausal status to avoid the scrutiny that would arise from their ability to potentially have a "person" inside themselves?
All of which probably explains the anti-abortion (more accurate description than pro-life when taken in this context) movement's hesitancy to embrace this legal tactic... if you somehow passed it, the backlash would destroy the movement's true goal, which I hope is to eliminate willful abortions absent any compelling medical reason.
Eggs are people too! What a goofy slogan. First it was Heavenly Hillsborough, now it's Christian Colorado. What would happen if an embryp formed on vacation, at a ski resort, and you were heading home to California with the intention of legal abortion? Could they arrest you for crossing state lines with the intent of murdering a Coloradan? Or murder, if you made it home but returned to Colorado the following Winter? Would embryo's be eligible for foodstamps, welfare, ...?
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