Roe v. Wade v. Kristi

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  • Posted By: NotSoBigMac @ 11/02/2008 1:34:36 PM

    The amendment would make several contraception devices potentially illegal, namely IUD, "abortion" pills and even the old-fashioned Pill, which works by denying the fertilized egg a friendly inner lining in the uterus (or by preventing an egg from maturing in the ovaries). On the other hand, it is estimated, that about 80% of fertilized eggs are flushed because they are not able to get planted. So your most active baby-killer is an average woman with normal hormones.

    • Posted By: Blue in AZ @ 11/02/2008 8:38:40 PM

      And most doctors will tell you that only 60% of pregnancies actually progress beyond the first 4 weeks. A lot of times, women have what they think is a heavy period, when actually, they are miscarrying. After I came out publicly with my second miscarriage, I heard dozens of personal stories from women. I never knew it (women don't like to talk about these things) but 8 of the 11 women in my immediate family INCLUDING MY MOTHER had had at least one. I guess if Kristi has her way, monthly periods will come with blood tests to determine if the pregnancy hormone is present. If it is, watch out ladies! You could be brought up on babyslaughter charges. Back to bed with you! We'll strap you down if need be! The babies must be protected!

      • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 7:08:00 PM

        One-third of all diabetics die from cardiovascular disease. By your logic, I can go around punching diabetics in the chest as hard as I can. Thanks.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 7:07:37 PM

      One-third of all diabetics die from cardiovascular disease. By your logic, I can go around punching diabetics in the chest as hard as I can. Thanks.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 11/02/2008 1:39:07 PM

    I knew this boy in elementary school, fifth grade, who came in from the country to our school in the city, who fascinated us with the biological fact that if a human had sexual relations with a ewe (female sheep), that she would have a premature fetus that was half human and half sheep. I think of this when I hear that someone wished to create a similar biological miracle by calling an egg a person. This is almost as ridiculous as calling Sarah Palin a Vice President. (It's the politics season. What the heck. Why not?)

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 7:06:59 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting nor a fift-grader. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited rather than heresay) helps you progress out of the dark ages. BTW, look up the differences between horse, donkey, and mule to help your confusion with organism classification..

  • Posted By: js100@msn.com @ 11/02/2008 1:46:16 PM

    Kristi is pushing a very dangerous and naive position. It will eliminate birth control and the number of underage pregnancies will sore. A life beging with heartbeat and brainwaves. She should be adopting the "unwanted" babies. Start with 3.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 7:01:17 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages. Did every pro-abortion reader here sleep through biology 101?

  • Posted By: jjjjj5 @ 11/02/2008 1:56:57 PM

    I only wish that Ms. Kristi knew what it was like to use a bedpost or a wire hanger to self-mutilate in order to avoid a detected pregnancy.......The sad fact is that she in her righteous self indignation has no clue --- despite being a law student --- and I certainly hope that she gets raped and carries the demon seed to birth just to feel the horror of the hell that many women who have sacrificed their entire reproductive future to have control over their bodies. Afterall, even a rapist seed needs to live as long as it conceives, right Kristi?

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 7:00:02 PM

      Spoken like a true abortion advocate wishing horror on another human being. Keep it up sociopath.

  • Posted By: jjjjj5 @ 11/02/2008 2:06:52 PM

    Come on, I know you have to be monitoring the discussion of your precious little gimmick, Kirsti.... Let's hear you defend your position because I am sure that your don't give two craps about the children born to families that are not ready, not willing or not able to care for those kids.... Have you adopted any children yet from those situations. Perhaps you could use your new found popularity to adopt some to the rape-children in the Congo for the incubine women who just happened not to have access to birth control or abortion.... Defend yourself and your law school talents, I dare you!

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:52:01 PM

      Really, were you both willing and able to adopt 6 million German refugees in 1939?

  • Posted By: roadee @ 11/03/2008 12:02:18 PM

    Progressive America, There should still be some adjuatment of the legality of abortion. Roe V Wade was wrong because it was a form of birth control. When the fathers rights are trumped simply because a woman is to selfish to carry an innocent life for 9 measly months there is something drastically wrong.

    • Posted By: Progressive American @ 11/03/2008 1:49:41 PM

      Roadee,

      I'm sure that Roe vs Wade does need adjusting, however it was nice of you to avoid all the points I made. The discussions and or moral debates that occur in our country about abortions would occcur less often if there was well devised social health marketing campaign geared towards the demographics that will be prone to have to make these type of life decisions. If people were better educated about the economical empacts of their wreckless sexual encounters, they would more than likely make better decisions. Condoms are not that expensive, use them.

      • Posted By: roadee @ 11/03/2008 6:51:27 PM

        Progressive America, I agree that education can help, however it doesn't seem to be getting through to a lot of people. While maybe you can provide condoms you can't ensure they will be used. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult....maybe, just maybe, if we take abortion off the table people will become a little more concerned about prevention???

    • Posted By: Progressive American @ 11/03/2008 1:50:26 PM

      Enter Your CommentComment: I agree it should not be a form of birth control. To prevent abortions from becoming a form of birth control there needs to be more social health marketing campaigns in these low income areas. By educating the community of the health and economic risks of unsafe sex, health organizers will be able to effectively lower the number of abortions that occur in the US. At the same time hopefully these preventative measures will also help lower the STD rates among lower income groups.

  • Posted By: John_Charles_Webb @ 11/02/2008 2:12:57 PM

    The flip side of this 'abortion issue' is to make the joy of childbirth a government mandate.
    The vast majority of women who choose to have a baby would be at the negative psychological effect of knowing that they do not have 'a choice' even though they would never consider having an abortion.
    Presently, under the law (interpreted) a woman can receive an 'on demand' abortion during the first trimester of her pregnancy. Once the fetus is 'viable' (able to live outside of the womb) then the child obtains constitutional rights equal to those of it's mother.

    To consider a fertilized egg a 'human being' is not scientifically sound; it is an arbitrary decision unfounded upon science but, rather, centered in a religious belief. A fertilized egg (usually) 'becomes', gradually, a human being, but that 'human 'being-ness' exists only as a potential until viability is attained.

    If there were a law that required a person to speak continuously once that person exercised his or her 'right to free speech' that law would be considered as 'involuntary servitude' and, as such, would be unconstitutional.

    To have the joy of a pregnancy and childbirth become a 'government mandate' for the vast majority of women is highly dysfunctional. A mandate of that type breeds subtle but powerful resentment that tears at the fabric of family life.

    'Viability' of the fetus provides a much more objective test. It eliminates spurious religious philosophies and eliminates any doubt in-so-far as 'when' the fetus secures 'rights' under the law, as a human being.

    It becomes much less of a 'tough call' if you simply pretend (if need be) that you are a woman who is two weeks pregnant and there is a government mandate requiring you to give birth, under penalty of the law.

    Freedom of choice, during the first trimester, is the lesser of two evils. It removes 'oppression' from the equation and preserves the sanctity of the vast majority of women who choose life.

    .







    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:49:02 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.

  • Posted By: MomWiz @ 11/02/2008 2:45:00 PM

    So, when does this new person get a social security number? I'm pro life, but this is would create a beurocratic nightmare. Imagine every spontaneous miscarriage being eligible for life insurance benefits under existing insurance laws. I don't think this young aspiring attorney has thought out her approach in full, and it's amazing to me that people will flock behind what seems to be a good idea on the surface without digging deep enough to realize the consequences BEFORE making new ideas legalities. We are always trying to dig out of the next mess we've created for ourselves, let's stop this one before it gets out of hand.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:47:17 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor legal utility.

  • Posted By: kareena @ 11/02/2008 2:49:34 PM

    HOW CAN YOU BE PR0-LIFE AND PRO-WAR?.FROM GOD

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:45:56 PM

      How can you be anti-war and pro-abortion? From logic.

  • Posted By: Morningsun @ 11/02/2008 2:54:10 PM

    My biggest issue with this pro-life stance is that a lot of people who support this is "pro-life" as long as the child is in the womb. Once the child exists the womb, they become "pro-choice" such as: supporting the dealth penalty; not wanting to support these mothers/famillies who have these unwanted children; not wanting to adopt any children; and not wanting to offer any support to these families. They just seem to stand in judgment when these women commit crimes like the Susan Smiths', Andrea Yates' etc.

    Out of all the so called "pro-lifers" I've met, not one of them has ever been able to explain to me the difference between an abortion and a war that kills innocent people. If they are so "pro-life" reach out to these families that are facing every day challenging problems that could throw them over the edge with their children. Help them find resources for health care, education, and other alternatives to violence.

    I personally believe that abortion is wrong for me, but I dare not stand in judgement of any woman who makes that choice.



    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:44:31 PM

      The difference between civilian deaths in war and abortion is intent.

  • Posted By: ajkmnd @ 11/03/2008 8:48:26 AM

    It is really sad to me that there are many people out there that base their decision on who they will vote for to be the next president of the United States based on whether they are pro life or pro choice. You are being played by the Republican Party!!! They would never attempt to overturn Roe V Wade because once they do-you narrow minded people won't be out blindly supporting them anymore! George Bush used you for your votes. It is ironic that they same people who are pro life are also for the war, death penalty and guns- all things that kill human beings.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:41:06 PM

      Yes, almost as ironic as yet another opponent of war, death penalty, and guns who is for abortion on demand.

  • Posted By: lauriesarno @ 11/03/2008 10:06:16 AM

    Geeze, too bad Kristi Burton wasn't so passionate about saving all the unwanted children AFTER THEY ARE BORN. Why do the pro-lifers focus so much on life BEFORE it's born and then suddenly have no futher part once this life is born?? Why don't all the pro-lifers ban together and adopt all the unwanted children in the world and provide healthcare, education, social and emotional care, and provided financially for these individuals until they are 18 or until 22 (once they've graduated college). RIGHT TO LIFE = RIGHT TO QUALITY OF LIFE!! What fetus would want to be born to a mother if it means stressing them out to the point of abuse? What fetus doesn't want a mother AND a father?? What fetus wants to be put in foster homes and abused by strangers? What fetus doesn't want healthcare and dental care so their teeth don't fall out and they don't have to suffer physically from illness?
    Why should pro-lifers or government for that matter decide that a mother should have no control over her offspring? Why do republicans feel gov should butt out of people's lives except before they are born??
    What if fetuses could tell us what they would like to do here - be born or wait for another opportunity to have a decent quality of life? Since they cannot, their mother is left with the choice - so everyone else butt out!

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:38:57 PM

      Would you have been both capable and willing of adopting 6 million refugees from Gernmany in 1939?

    • Posted By: lauriesarno @ 11/03/2008 11:03:23 AM

      Kristi, I live in Colorado and did NOT vote yes on Amendment 48. Personally, I think you should have used the 1/2 million you raised and donated it to a homeless shelter that supports familes w/ children who are homeless, and/or supported a domestic abuse shelter that supports women and children in horrific situations, or what about giving it to agencies that provide care for the precious special care needs children that are unwanted by their parents. Amendment 48 is a waste of time, energy, and resources.

  • Posted By: SylviaBokor @ 11/03/2008 10:09:11 AM

    Burton and her anti-abortionists evidently do not consider the woman carrying the egg an innocent life worth protecting. So why say they want to "protect innocent life"? Simply to play on the emotions of one's listeners. The method is known as "Appealing to the Mob"---the incitement to action through emotional appeal. It seeks to manipulate a listener without addressing the content of an issue, which Burton certainly avoids.

    "Innocent" refers primarily to those who have the capacity of choice. But Burton would apply moral stature to an egg, wheedling listeners to accept the notion that an egg is the equivalent of a self-aware, thinking, choosing, independently active organism.

    "Life" refers to an enormously wide abstraction that includes algae, weeds, and other organic matter. An egg may be considered "alive" but it cannot rationally be considered human life. If I eat a chicken egg, I am not eating chicken. There is a distinct difference between the two. There is an unbridgeable chasm between an egg and a human being, which cannot be a "person" until it develops a personality, i.e., until it's born.

    Sincerely,
    Sylvia Bokor
    Albuquerque, NM

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:36:09 PM

      From a Ph.D. scientist: a human organism (which is synonymous with "human being") is created at conception. The belief that human beings are not created at conception but at a later time point was scientifically disproved in the 19th century by Pasteur???s widely published experiments concerning spontaneous generation. The method by which science determines truth is experimentation, not the Supreme Court nor the voters of Colorado nor the arrogantly ignorant commentators of a web posting. I hope this little science lesson (by the way, to qualify as a scientific argument, at least one experiment has to be cited) helps you progress out of the dark ages.

  • Posted By: Islandpacket @ 11/03/2008 11:22:50 AM

    I don't believe that anyone is Pro-Abortion. Abortion, like prostitution and drinking alcohol, have been with us since we have been. Making the consumption of alcohol and prostitution illegal hasn't stopped or eliminated either of them. The reversal of Roe V. Wade won't stop abortions instead it would put us back to the days of abortions being performed by who knows who using coat hangars in someones bedroom. I am not Pro-Abortion but am Pro-Choice. If for whatever reason a person I cared about such as a daughter or granddaughter chose to have an abortion, I would hope that it could be done in a clean, sterile hospital like setting by a qualified physician and not in a back bedroom with a coat hangar. To the Christian Right/Far Right I offer the following observation. The only good decisions and solutions to problems are made using our intellect. Using our egos, our religious beliefs or any of the baggage we carry around with us as human beings always gives us bad decisions and solutions to problems.

    • Posted By: beefy @ 11/03/2008 6:33:56 PM

      By this logic, no one was pro-slvery in the civil war, only pro-choice.

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 11/03/2008 5:01:25 PM

    Obama said he denounced and left the radical Trinity United Church but it???s not true!!

    Obama has Trinity United pastor Rev Ottis Moss accompanying him on his campaign!!

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 11/03/2008 4:11:56 PM

    More and more disturbing stuff on Obama's past and his real intentions are just starting to surface.

    As I predicted over a year ago .... Obama is a big fraud and America is being duped !!

    • Posted By: SkeeterVT @ 11/03/2008 4:31:04 PM

      What a crock of B.S.! It's astounding how those on the right have become more and more irrational as it becomes more and more likely that Obama will be elected...This thinly-disguised racial paranoia (Would they DARE say the same thing about Hillary Clinton had she won the Democratic nomination? I seriously doubt it) is pathetic. . .

  • Posted By: kristy76 @ 11/03/2008 3:57:57 PM

    how arrogant of you to assume I'm "religious". Whatever that means.

  • Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/03/2008 3:49:42 PM

    I listen to all of these pro-abortionist (pro-choice is pro-abortionist) and they are trying to divert the attention away from the subject. Is it a life? One even states that all plants, algae, chicken eggs are not given life status.... unbelievable! So now the human being is reduced to a chicken sea grass and a tropical plant. It is known fact that humans eat chicken, eat some plants and even algae. Are we eating human beings on a world wide scale? We humans EAT many things that are a form of life.... we are on top of the food chain and we know that eggs (bird, reptile) produce after its kind and now we are acting stupid when we say that a fertilize human egg is not going to produce a human being!

    The fact of the matter is that it is a life at conception and when allowed to go full term (as all human beings go through this process) we know that it is a human being that is produced.

    As for the person claiming what next are they going to do make laws concerning if they took their prenatal pills or ..... etc... Wake up they all ready have these laws on the books and if a pregnant women give birth to a baby that is effected by alcohol, drugs (perscription or illegal) they can be charged with abuse.

  • Posted By: kristy76 @ 11/03/2008 3:28:11 PM

    These arguments are exactly what I mean. The argument from ghemarah stating you can't be pro-life unless you're anti-war and anti-death penalty makes no sense. That's comparing apples and oranges...and kiwis. Those are totally mutually exclusive things. And to sickofeverything- you can't compare a miscarriage to abortion. A miscarriage isn't anyone's choice or "criminal behavior". That too makes no sense and I'm sure your more intelligent supporters would agree. And to your last argument and my personal favorite.. why should the rights or "interests" of the unborn be more important than those who currently "walk the earth". My answer is because we should defend the defensless. Who will stand up for those who can't speak for themselves? Clearly not a lot of you. You say no one has the right to tell you what to do with your body. THat's fine but abortion doesn't hurt YOUR body. It hurts someone else's. How is that fair?

  • Posted By: slsaenz @ 11/03/2008 2:29:59 PM

    Best and most sensical comment I've seen on abortion discussions, gdemarah. Great point and one I will bring up with my Pro-life friends ( I am pro-choice myself.)

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