COVER STORY: THE ECONOMY

A Darker Future For Us

It's not just the financial crisis: higher taxes, energy costs and health spending also threaten growth.

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  • Posted By: Frumious @ 11/17/2008 4:24:20 AM

    You can take the mediation of global warming off the table as a necessary drag on the economy. Global warming is apparently over. The same data points that scientists used to prove its existence in the 1980's and 1990's - the 300,000 daily global climate measurements performed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) - have, since early 2006, showed a striking reversal of the warming trend - a trend that had actually come to a halt about 10 years earlier. Since early 2006, average global temperatures have fallen so fast that they are now at levels not seen since the 1980's. The surface of the Arctic Ocean has once again frozen completely from Russia to Canada - but at an earlier date than the last several years' freezes. Using the most comprehensive set of climate data on the planet, scientists were correct in the past on their pronouncements about the existence of global warming. The same data set now tells the same scientists that global warming has been replaced by global cooling.

  • Posted By: ariziowa @ 11/04/2008 11:25:42 PM

    Actually, it's okay that osama is Presdent. Make me rich!!!

  • Posted By: dr. know @ 11/14/2008 9:24:53 AM

    as to redistributing wealth from old to young--how about you sharing your lucre - about a third to the most poor-. health care is to expensive-doctors and hospitals costs should be cut by at least a third--they are desroying our economy we need more family docs and far less specialists.. you are a phony - BIG TIME your economic brethen are responsible for this financial mess we are in along with the fraudelent colleges you geeks are associatedwith. bring back the tar and feather punishments

  • Posted By: Tan Boon Tee @ 11/11/2008 10:18:46 PM

    The American supremacy is on the downward slide. The era of change has already begun.

    The US may still want to claim to own the largest economy, but its $10 trillion debt makes it the largest debtor at the same time. Of course, having enjoyed decades of good life, Americans cannot suddenly turn pessimistic overnight.

    Militarily speaking, the US would continue to assert that it is the most powerful nation, especially with all the state-of-the-art super technology. However, the combined military prowess of China and Russia will be a great power not to be lightly ignored.

    The current financial mayhem will drag on, with hardly any light at the end of the tunnel as yet. So, a darker future? Most likely, at least in the near future.
    (Tan Boon Tee)

    • Posted By: bmd12345 @ 11/13/2008 2:38:51 PM

      Not necessarily. I will depend on the the minorities and new immigrants. If they still feel and act like third worlders, we will surely reflect them. We will start to look like Mexico as more Mexicans act like the folks back homes, the same is true with the Indians and the Chinese. They will cut into lines or criss-cross in the highways just as they do in their home country. Finally, we will have to see how much of an active citizenship, they will have in terms of keeping the neighbourhood safe and clean.
      I have been to regions of LA and I can tell you - it feels like a warzone. America will reflect this throughout , if we are not careful.

  • Posted By: thegrinder @ 11/12/2008 10:06:21 PM

    We can engage in all the verbal quipping we want but the fact is that American workers have been sold out. Sure there is still some money out there and it is not all doom and gloom but the "American Dream" is not available to as many as it once was. Those doors have been slammed shut and they are not opening again. Why waste time fighting the losing battle when you can win by working overseas? American corporations reward you for that behavior so what are we waiting for?

  • Posted By: Jmichaels59 @ 11/12/2008 12:19:43 PM

    Eventually the biggest gap in the USA will occur between those who can change the way they think, and those that can???t. Start surviving today, there are options, if your plan A isn't working out, it may be time to start looking at something else. A different perspective is what you may need. You can thrive, right now. Look at a new plan, plan B maybe! Read/listen to this audio from Robert Kiyosaki, "The Perfect Business?". Get it FREE for a limited time NOW. http://www.freecdforyou.com

  • Posted By: eagle575 @ 11/04/2008 2:00:22 PM

    um...chitown? pwc - the world's largest accounting firm pretty much proved that surplus an illusion. and the part that wasn't was flushed down the toilet with the dot com implosion of the late 90s, wiping out almost $2 trillion of assets.

    what tax breaks? chapter and verse of the Code please. or be quiet. under the present tax system, the top 10% pay over 60% of all income taxes now. compare that to less than 45% when clinton was in office.

    • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 2:49:41 PM

      Speaking of illusions, I guess you haven't heard of the Housing, Banking, world wide Recession/Depression problem that the markets are now experiencing have you? Oh and your comparison of 2 trillion to the above 60 trillion and counting, do the math or be quiet yourself!

      As for what tax breaks,code, ect.. Where have you been Mars? W gave, Obama wants to roll back and McSame well you should get the point , if not go to their web sites. I don't care to school you any further.

      • Posted By: mickeyj @ 11/05/2008 10:56:58 AM

        Blame the Republicans all you want, it's merely an excuse. Have you forgotten the prosperity we enjoyed from 1994 to 9/11 and even then the wealth grew until when.....2006. What's important to note here is that Republicans controlled both branches from '94 to '06 and the Democrats have been in control since'06. Coincidence??? I think not.

        On the bright side look at the opportunity we Republicans have here!! Think of the entreprenuerial opportunities. Excuse the incorrect spelling that word is a tough one for me. If I was an accountant right now I would be establishing a pay per view type website to illustrate and explain all the ways to scam out of showing profit and paying taxes. All the small business owners would tap in and it's a win win deal.

        The trickle down is potentially interesting when small business finds ways to not overpay their taxes. For example, if tax revenues from the "patriotic" tax increases don't meet projections our President now has major problems. How does he fund the new health care system? How does he give 95% of ALL Americans that promised tax cut?And, most importantly long term, how does he explain these deficiencies to the scores and scores of faithful supporters?

        So, don't fret, give it time to play out.Now, if I am an illegal alien I love this deal because I will now get paid in cash with no paper trail leading me back to my Homeland.This then leads to the average wages of the American worker going down and, again, the Messiah has a problem.

        All of this leads to the mid term elections which, by my calculations, puts things back where they should be.So rejoice in his victory and give a little smile to any and all who tell you what a great day this is!!

        • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 12:30:16 PM

          You just don't get it do you? Suffice it to say that the MAJORITY of the American people are not interested in purchasing your philosophical or economical stock. The selling of Your beliefs along with your party are ancient history. If you want to evolve and survive, you are going to have to get with the program, step out of your cocoon, and CHANGE, if not , give my regards to T Rex.
          Change is here ! The MAJORITY of America has spoken, get used to it.

          • Posted By: mickeyj @ 11/05/2008 6:28:25 PM

            Trust me I get it and here's something you'd better get. The MAJORITY you speak of is the same MAJORITY % W beat Kerry by. The question is how loyal is that MAJORITY. In other words, your boy better produce on his pie in the sky promise brigade or he will suffer the same fate as Americans are as loyal as a cheating spouse. So I'd settle down 'lil missy cuz he's got a lot of palms to grease and well see the reactions over time.

            I think the point you're missing here is we want him to succeed you moron. Do you really believe people want him to fail? You probably rely on your mommy for money still but the rest of us have retirements at stake, families to take care of, mortgages to pay, and college and everything else that comes with the American Dream!! We can't afford for him to fail.. And you want to talk about neocons and all the cliches. Get your head out of your ass and join the real world.Idealogy is a wonderful thing but it don't pay the bills.

            • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 8:49:42 PM

              Better produce or what? your going to get your hillbilly from Alaska to run against him in 20012? Go ahead make our day. As for Moron, you have such a short memory span, Read you statement again and discover that It was you who stated,
              1 Excuse the incorrect spelling , that is a tough one for me.
              2 Americans are as loyal as cheating spouses.
              Schooling in Appalachia is not as up to date as in the big cities, which is why you are having problems spelling. As for cheating spouses, you practice keeping things in the family, don't you?
              About the holes in my jeans, yes I did pay extra for them, and the are oh, so cool, unlike your custom of wearing them until they create holes and fall apart and then get another pair..
              Finally take your six pack, put on your hood, and go back to your trailer, where you belong, and take Joe the plumber with you, you ignoramus missing link.

              • Posted By: mickeyj @ 11/10/2008 3:22:34 PM

                You poor thing to have such an attitude at such a young age. Here I was trying to make you feel good and you come back with such attitude.Do you need to change your ADD or ADHD medication level or do you have such a stressful life as a liberal arts student that you just can't take it when someone disagrees with you? You go on home now and tell daddy to make it better or you'll just scream!

                Trust me I have no problem spelling and I will put my education up against yours any day. Since you don't seem to understand much let me slow down for you. If Obama does not produce on his election promises of anything and everything the same people who elected him will be first in line to vote against him, understand ? Maybe I should put spaces between the letters so you can sound it out slower then your mush brain would figure it out.

  • Posted By: thegrinder @ 11/07/2008 7:23:02 PM

    Another point not expanded upon much is the hollowing out of American jobs that have gone overseas. There are a lot of talented and educated people willing to do the work but are left out in the cold due to the bean counting to reduce costs. What proposals or policies will be a replacement for millions of jobs lost? The youth of this country are greater in number than the baby boomers so where will they work? Maybe they should go overseas where the economic policies of America will favor them more. ;)

  • Posted By: JohnInAustin @ 11/07/2008 11:36:58 AM

    While I hate to harp on a single phrase in your article, I think your reference to 'the struggling youth and 'the relaxed old' speaks volumes about your cultural awareness. I know a great number of struggling youths, but very few relaxed old. Who do you think Americans really are?

    It is easy to believe fervently in a system that values your personal skills and work with prestige and prosperity. But, like democracy itself, Free Market Capitalism is above all a social contract, not a dictate of God. It exists at the sufferance of all and will continue only so long as it meets the needs of all. If you doubt it, reflect a bit on Nicolas II and Marie Antoinette.

  • Posted By: MegaDeath @ 11/06/2008 4:16:17 PM

    As long as Obama KEEPS his campaign promise to Spread the Wealth, that's all the people need. Obama promised to give free money from the people with millions and the rich politicions and give it to us. Obama promised to buy our homes that were being foreclosed and he promised free medical, prescriptions and dental coverage. There is no need for us to work and pay taxes when Obama will pay for what we need.

  • Posted By: laker1t @ 11/04/2008 11:15:27 AM

    To 40 yr R- Great comments.....The GOP has moved so far to the right, the only way a guy like McCain can get the nomination is by "selling out", and embracing their failed policies, which as you pointed out, McCain himself had so vehemently opposed.

    • Posted By: eagle575 @ 11/04/2008 2:01:55 PM

      as if the dems haven't moved so far left that jfk and truman wouldn't recognize their party...

      • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 4:58:21 PM

        I supposed that JFK and Truman would also be impressed to discover that as a result of the Republicans
        ( Nixon going to China ) we now owe China an impressive TRILLION dollars, and are wasting 700 Billion a year in oil going to the Arabs. With policies like these who needs neo cons/enemies.

        • Posted By: mickeyj @ 11/05/2008 6:04:35 PM

          You must be the Pres of your college's Yound Dem's Club!! To be so young and idealistic, it truly tugs at my heartstrings!!! Love to be there when you get a real job and see what's left after your boy has his way!!. Isn't that when folks become Republicans? Do you pay extra for all the holes in those jeans that look so "cool"??

          • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 10:07:21 PM

            That s right I was the President of my college Democratic club. Now stop play your banjo, and hopping around barefooted, that is why you feel tugs of hart stings, and why you are still economically deficient and have sleepless nights about your many bills. Unlike you I am an entrepreneur and have made enough to not work like simpletons like you. The key is make your money work hard for you. Of course you don't know how to do that and resort to working hard for your money instead. Keep playing your banjo!

        • Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 11/04/2008 9:08:08 PM

          Yes, I am sure that Harry would be impressed by Barry emulating commie thugs such as chavez and putin.
          Harry sent half a billion to turkey and greece to fight commies.
          With a name like chitown, no wonder you admire Barry and his thug politics, eh?

          • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 9:57:58 PM

            Oh stop with your REPUBICAN Neo Con FOX rhetoric, it's so 8 yrs ago There's a new sheriff in CHITOWN
            ( don't wear out the name) You can call him Barry all you want he is still YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF so saddle up and get out of town because we have the SENATE TOO. Your party is over ,your hangover begins. Chew on this for the next 8 yrs!

            • Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 11/04/2008 10:25:03 PM

              Barry is the president and your commander in chief. To me he's the little boy in the big man's suit in the white house.
              BTW get ready for 2010. you'll get tired of barry real soon.
              Hold onto your wallet, cause you won't know what hit you.
              Remember BJ's infamous middle classs tax cut?
              that was a Big big joke.,

              • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 1:00:41 PM

                Oh, so he is not your Commander in Chief? What are you, planning to leave the Country? Well good riddance ,and take Joe the plumber with you, Like it or not your Barry, will have his finger on the button and will be able to push it if and when he should choose to, and there is NOTHING that you can do about it.

                Na na na na, Hey hey hey , goog bye!

  • Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/05/2008 3:24:09 PM


    My image of attending a protestant parochial school in the late 50s is being told over and over and over that: Behind every bush there is the Devil, a Communist, or a Catholic, wanting to leap out and grab me!!!

    The ideology hasn???t changed, the practice hasn???t changed. Just the targets that we are obliged to fear???and hate???and revile.

    Don???t live in a closet of horribles and fear, and don???t want to. This paranoid hate and fear has got to go. The neocon fantasies ought to go, or be kept on the margin where they are and belong.

    Perhaps the moderates in the Republican party will no longer stand aside and allow ourselves to be shouted down by those who are supposed to be in the same party; the party I joined 40 years ago but which got hijacked somewhere along the way.

    We???ll all do better to think about ???how to???.

    A 40 year republican

  • Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/05/2008 3:07:25 PM

    Succeeding through the gauntlet of the election, is one indication that Obama has the capacity to get through most.

    My impression is that Obama will prove to be a pragmatist, with vision.

    If we should have learned nothing else, we must have observed that things haven't been going well lately, nor have things gone as we were told they would. I'm ready to move forward.

    I just hope we don't shoot ourselves in our own foot by narrow minded self-defeating opposition.

    Imagine, less than 50 years after the fear and prejudice directed at JFK's religion, and the centuries long, systemic prejudice and discrimination against blacks, this country, our America, now voluntarily looks past race to the person. Wow....

    How'd we do dat?

    One Giant Step for Human Kind!

    A 40 year republican

  • Posted By: afisher @ 11/05/2008 1:45:30 PM

    It is interesting that everyone seems to be talking in the same words that have been used to "solve" problems in the past. Not only should the president elect be talking to those economist, politicians, environmentalist, etc from previous administrations, but should also consult with those future thinking "wonks" . To all those that will participating in the 2009 Congress, I urge all of you to think "outside the box". Be sure to ask "why are we doing it THAT way and do not accept "that's the way that it has always been done. Will there be mis-steps, SURE. But repeating what has been done is the past may not be the answer to moving we, as a country, forward. Your failure to embrace this opportunity to change the way the USA does business will squander a once in a generation opportunity. You have my support for taking this "road less traveled"! Good Luck

  • Posted By: baybay @ 11/05/2008 8:19:20 AM

    I assure you the economy is the LAST thing you need to worry about.
    CONGRATULATIONS AMERICA!
    You just elected the first black president...........to support BABY MURDER, that is!
    All the best in the next four!

    • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 1:27:21 PM

      That's right all of those BLACK SUPREME Court JUSTICES ( and one White ) ruled on that!
      What other words of wisdom have you?

  • Posted By: chamsticks @ 11/05/2008 1:17:03 PM

    Here's the solution for our economic problems. Large-scale inflation. Pay off our debts with debased currency. By not paying for his war, by printing money for the stimulus package, by printing up more for the bank rescue, Bush is obviously supporting that policy. It will be pretty painful for all concerned, but as I see it, it's the only way out. It will be kind of funny to pay off China with trillions in funny money. Imagine the looks on their faces. By the way saying that Republicans are better for economic growth is a joke. 10 straight years of economic growth in the 60s under Democrats. Almost 10 straight years of growth in the 90s under Democrats. Sure the stock market might be different, but it's subject to a lot of manipulations and shenanigans that the Republicans seem to enjoy so much.

  • Posted By: kitty62862 @ 11/04/2008 12:54:16 PM

    Forgive me for being too simplistic: The jobs which haven't gone to china are filled by the endless stream of 'cheap help' we keep allowing to sneak in here. We waste endless cash on a needless war, and toys in space, and foreign aid. What about our own? Charity begins at home; period.

    • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 2:02:03 PM

      Yes you are simplistic ,comparing the MILLIONS ( minimum wage and under ) that undocumented people made spend here,and helped also to create jobs here, to the BILLIONS lost in a unwarranted war, and the TRILLIONS lost in the housing scam, and on and on. Perhaps if you had been minding the store and not simply absorbing Lou, Shaun, Bill O,Rush and others, you would not now owe 86K like the rest of us. When making comparisons, it's always advisable to do the real math first.

      • Posted By: rangerone314 @ 11/04/2008 2:31:50 PM

        When a southern meatpacking company was busted in a raid, after a union tipped off the gov & many hundreds of illegals were carted off, 2,000 people were lined up (American citizens) outside the company to apply for jobs.

        We send manufacturing jobs to China & IT jobs to India... what is left is the "service" and "retail" economies, which is another way of saying we are draining our wealth produced from about the 1940s to the 1980s...

        The lack of a real economy, the power of banks, and the big debt of America (government & citizen) will be the downfall of this country... when China & others can no longer afford to finance it. Whether this happens before or after world oil production peaks and the price spikes to like $500/bbl, I do not know.

        • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 9:21:28 PM

          Yes 2000 lined up for the 300 jobs, and the town shops and restaurants went out of business, and will never come back. The homes that the workers had are all in foreclosure and the tax base is in the tank.
          As for sending manufacturing jobs to India, With outsourcing no one need come here to take the jobs, American companies will simply outsource them elsewhere
          $500 a barrel for oil? Thank the Repubicans ( George H. Bush, runs in the family ) for that, and for not following Jimmy Carters policy of solar energy, and reducing forein oil consumption to 20 percent.

          • Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 11/04/2008 9:39:00 PM

            That's George W. Bush! Why are you so dead set and steadfastly against drilling our own oil that will generate TRILLIONS of DOLLARS?? Foreign Oil would be ZERO! and think of the 1000's upon 1000's of jobs that will be fed by oil>
            Solar, wind and eth'nol don't feed the bull dog.

            • Posted By: chitown @ 11/04/2008 9:44:36 PM

              Sill man it was his Father George H Bush ,oh , forget it no sense explaining when you just make things up. Read it again.

              • Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 11/04/2008 10:21:56 PM

                Either it's George H.W. Bush or George W. Bush. Make up your mind.
                Answer the question about oil!

                • Posted By: chitown @ 11/05/2008 12:47:47 PM

                  Having trouble with your comprehension , or are you myopic? Read carefully because I am only going to explain this to you just one more time. Now, George H. Bush ( Bush 41 ) is the father of George W. Bush
                  (Bush 43 ) , there is NO George H. W. Bush.
                  You need not respond as I am tired of having to tutor you, and will no longer teach you.

  • Posted By: cpcath @ 11/05/2008 11:58:56 AM

    struggling young to the relaxed old. ( oxymoron ) living on SS and TWO jobs seven days a week. How relaxed is that?

  • Posted By: mickeyj @ 11/05/2008 11:54:31 AM

    Speaking of studies check this one out. Got an email from my financial destroyer and when discussing politics she sent me an interesting piece of data.

    Seems Wall Street has tracked investment results according to political party control since 1945. That's 63 years for you conspiracy theorists. Results as follows:

    No difference for the average rate of return for a Democrat or Republican Presidency.

    Average rate of return, over 63 years, when both houses are controlled by Democrats.......7%

    Here's the cool part....Average rate of return, over 63 years, when Republicans control both houses.....14%

    Sure looks like America knew its stuff when it voted based on the economy. Had to be the economy because God knows there is no possibility of race being a factor.Only a coincidence that over 95% of blacks voted for the black candidate!!

    Oh, yeah, if Clinton was responsible for the prosperity that began in 1994 why were we in a recession from 1992-1994. Could it be that the Dems were in control of the House and Senate? Nah !!

  • Posted By: jlewk @ 11/05/2008 11:35:26 AM

    Yo, buddy- Bill Clinton was a two-term president- from 1992 to 2000. Then the Republicans took over. Congress went Republican in 1994, but the executive branch was still Democrat. Prior to 1994, both houses of Congress had been Democrat for years! Studies have shown that Americans have historically been somewhat uncomfortable about having the legislative branch and the executive branch both from the same party and prefer

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