As The Rich Get Poorer

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: Psimondo @ 11/06/2008 11:02:20 AM

    This conflates a lot of arguments into one! Of course its true that to produce money you need to produce goods and services, but companies have been shifting real production offshore, so their are fewer new jobs and as for service: it was largely financial services that boomed- and now its obvious these were poorly understood by the so called experts that created them! The first case requires regulation to make it attractive to hire people at home and jump start entirely new home grown industries - and the second is a case of ill-gotten gains. Claw it all back.

  • Posted By: Willian C DeMuth @ 11/06/2008 9:54:08 AM

    This was one of the most thoroughly offensive piles of rubbish I have ever read. The author reminds me of the French aristocracy BEFORE the revolution, and should probably face the same demise as they did.

    Wealth is created only by the production of goods, or through providing services. The idea that the wealthy produce value through personal labor is absurd, they produce it by taking some percentage of the value of the efforts of others as a managerial charge against their labor.

    Thus we have elitists whose salary is sometimes several hundred folds greater than the least paid within an organization. Do you truly believe a CEO???s bonus should be greater than the salary of hundreds of employees who have lost their job through the mismanagement of their so called superiors?

    In addition a significant percentage of wealth in this country is inherited wealth following the path of primogeniture, as is often the case with political wealth as well. Do you honestly believe the child of a coal miner has the same opportunity as the child of a CEO? Perhaps only in this absurd authors delusions.

    As long as the poor tolerate their poverty the status quo will continue.

    Some have called American elections quiet revolutions, and that may be a good thing, but if the powers that be intend to still defraud the poor old and weak in this nation, I can assure you some of us a quite willing to offer them a more traditional revolution if needed.

  • Posted By: the youth @ 11/06/2008 9:49:24 AM

    Is the author of this article implying that if the incomes of top executives were reduced that they would stop doing business for our country?

  • Posted By: sieg6529 @ 11/06/2008 9:32:51 AM

    You conservatives need to stop being so melodramatic (end of the world, communist takeover, losing the country, etc.). Clinton didn't "destroy" this country, as was suggested by your ilk back in the early 90s. Woe is not thee; in 4-8 years, you will still have your guns and your mixed market economy. If you have had enough or don't want to live under Obama, by any and all means leave.

  • Posted By: RO in Reno @ 11/06/2008 8:36:14 AM

    The rich will get poorer as long as this country is run by idiots as it has for the last eight years and 30 out of the last 40. In fact everyone is getting poorer it???s just moving up the ladder.
    What is scary for everyone is the possibility we have reached the point there is no turning back.

    Has no one every questioned the fact a consumer driven economy (bottom up) is simply not compatible with a Trickle down concept (top down) they are diametrically opposed.

    But the real problem is this country operates at a net loss, a greater cash flow to China, and the Middle East than we have income. That leads to only one thing Bankruptcy, and that describes the economic status of the US at the moment.

    I realize this is a very simplistic view, but the very complicated economic models that try to show trickle down economics would actually work and promoted by the Republicans have now come full circle.

    You can have an economic stimulus effort once again, but it will have just as temporary an effect as the last one.

    Until this country is run in a business like manner with some thought given to income rather than borrowing to stay afloat the decline will continue.
    Thankfully Obama seems to recognize this in his proposed effort to keep jobs in American and to promote manufacturing at least in the "Green" industries, but even then the damage is so great it is going to take a very long time.



  • Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 11/05/2008 11:45:19 PM

    If I were earning 250G's or more per year, I would not lose sleep over the new tax plan because I could make it up, and then some, by savings investments, and the interest earned on these investments. Excellent point about corporate greed...it definitely hasn't done any good for the American workforce. I have yet to see "trickle down" money show up in my pocket.

    • Posted By: jonsey11002 @ 11/06/2008 7:49:40 AM

      I would agree re: no money in my pocket. I make approximately $32,000 per year. My husband who is on disability with a terminal illness, earns $19,000/year. Once he dies, and he will, I will have to live on my $32,000/year while paying mortgage, car, food, utilities and student loans...it is scary. In the last 5 years my income has increased about 1-2% per year. Is my solution to get another job that pays better? hmmm, I am not sure that is possible right now in our ecomony, but I will keep trying.

  • Posted By: neos @ 11/05/2008 10:55:50 PM

    A CEO in the U.S. makes anywhere from 400-800 times the average 'Joe" on the line. In Japan its 12 times, in France 15. A CEO makes more before lunch on the first day of the year than the average worker makes in the whole year. Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld took home 480 million dollars over the the seven years that spent running his company into ruin. This irresponsible greed is destroying our economy.
    If these CEOS and other corporate officers would bring their salary ratio into line with the rest of the world and reinvest this money into R&D, higher salaries and benefits for their workers, product cost reduction and higher dividends to their shareholders we would see a positive effect on our national economy.

    • Posted By: Generic Person @ 11/06/2008 1:11:00 AM

      Can you link me to your information? It sounds interesting and I would like to learn more.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 11/05/2008 10:44:22 PM

    Just look how bad Scrooge treated Bob Cratchitt just so he could hoard a lot of gold coins and count them every day. And there Cratchitt was with a disabled child. The old man still paid him a bare living wage and couldn't care less that Cratchitt couldn't afford an education for that boy. Selfishness can sometimes just go too damned far. I'm arguing for the kid. Turn loose of some of that useless gold and raise your helpers up. Got it?

  • Posted By: sigmacoder @ 11/05/2008 4:45:30 PM

    Why to people presume that "redistributing the wealth" implies buying the poor and shiftless flat screen TVs or other handouts? The intent of higher taxation is to provide programs that make all Americans healthier and more productive improving life for all. The intent is not to tax the rich and give to the poor, as it is "tax the rich, and educate all Americans", "tax the rich to ensure the health of all Americans", "tax the rich to improve the quality of America". What is better, for McCain to have another house, or for 20 young Americans to have access to higher quality education and health care? That is the liberal argument, and it shouldn't have a negative connotation.

    • Posted By: Jaray24 @ 11/05/2008 4:49:38 PM

      That would be nice if that is the way it will be, but I have not heard that from and Dems, and that is why I am against this "spread the wealth around". I haven't heard all the details and can't find them on Obama's website. So I have to assume based on my knowledge that they will take from the rich and give to the poor, and "welfare" check.

      • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:24:25 PM

        Funny how people didn't all that upset with over priced no-bid military contracts to Halliburton. Where's your sense of right and wrong there?

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 11/05/2008 4:09:18 PM

    Start ' spreading the wealth around ' and hand out those welfare checks that you "promised" Obama.

    • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:19:19 PM

      Sorry all checks still go to Halliburton until Jan 20 2009. But here's a quarter so you can go buy a clue.

  • Posted By: kml7 @ 11/05/2008 4:54:04 PM

    jaray, you must not have looked very hard, or paid much attention in the debates, because Obama clearly stated that he wants to provide a $4,000 tax credit to anyone enrolled in college. you sound like reagan with his "welfare queens in cadillacs" speech, when that really isn't relevant anymore--it's the middle class that is hurting these days

    • Posted By: Jaray24 @ 11/05/2008 5:01:13 PM

      I did listen and I do know about the tax credit. Is that his stand on "spreading the wealth around"? He just doesn't have a statement on his website that says: What spreading the wealth around means to him. I know everyone has thier ideas, and what they think he would do but I want an offical statement.

      • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:17:04 PM

        Republicans seem to have a terrible time only with people welfare, they seem quite content with corporate welfare, no amount too large or too soon. So while at first glance they seem to be xenophobes, on closer inspection it appears that they hate any living thing that impedes the flow of cash to corporations. Is there a name for that?

  • Posted By: sigmacoder @ 11/05/2008 4:45:06 PM

    Why to people presume that "redistributing the wealth" implies buying the poor and shiftless flat screen TVs or other handouts? The intent of higher taxation is to provide programs that make all Americans healthier and more productive improving life for all. The intent is not to tax the rich and give to the poor, as it is "tax the rich, and educate all Americans", "tax the rich to ensure the health of all Americans", "tax the rich to improve the quality of America". What is better, for McCain to have another house, or for 20 young Americans to have access to higher quality education and health care? That is the liberal argument, and it shouldn't have a negative connotation.

    • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:09:31 PM

      It has a negative connotation because that appeals to the greedy and their thinking doesn't really stand up to logic. That's why they hate intellectuals as well, or anyone else that isn't easily brainwashed into the republican cult mode.

  • Posted By: jdsmachine @ 11/05/2008 6:09:36 PM

    What about just changing the code = For every dollar anyone makes they pay 36%. No deductions nothing.
    Right across the board from pauper to billionaire. There would be no tax shelters, games.

    • Posted By: HinderedHindsight @ 11/05/2008 6:52:01 PM

      The dirty secret about the flat tax system is that it would not produce the kind of revenues the government needs to accommodate its spending.

      • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:06:47 PM

        And you won't find any rich people willing to give up all their write-offs. The AMT, brought to us by Reagan but never indexed for inflations by the typcially incompetent government, addressed rich people that didn't pay squat. He had some understanding of fair taxes, all W and Cheney know is how to write check to Halliburton. Imagine the CEO of Halliburton is just another draft dodger too. What hypocrites.

  • Posted By: YashBudini @ 11/05/2008 10:02:59 PM

    If I was rich I'd be more worried that my kid wouldn't end up as useless and non-functional as Paris Hilton than a couple of percentage points on my tax rate. No amount of money can fix that mistake.

  • Posted By: lher @ 11/05/2008 3:56:35 PM

    Yeah, let's up the capital gains tax & get them rich SOBs. OOPS just remember my little ole 60 yr but was recently put out the door from down sizing ($40,000.00 annual income). Job prospects down right suck. The only income I am making is by playing the stock market a little. Doing that under short term trading is already 28%. Now just where do the tax the rich liberals propose to raise it to. I'm not even making my old salary.

    • Posted By: tc125231 @ 11/05/2008 9:05:25 PM

      We "tax the rich" liberals think you should pay exacty the same rate as someone who made exactly the same taxable income while working.

      Of course, if that was true, the "Hedge Fund Manager" loop hole wouldn't exist.

      Cheers!

  • Posted By: kml7 @ 11/05/2008 6:38:18 PM

    jdsmachine, you want to tax people like teachers making $25,000 a year, maybe with a family, 36%? don't be naive.

  • Posted By: dhd1491 @ 11/05/2008 6:03:34 PM

    Sorry, but when one guy is working 60 hour weeks and making less than $30k while another is working the same 60 hour week and making $30 mil...that ain't right. I don't care if you say it's because of the decisions that that individual has made...not everyone is going to be a CEO. Not everyone is capable. Doesn't mean that someone who works hard and serves a useful purpose should live in fear of getting sick because he can't afford to. Or can never have kids because he can't afford to. Or can never take a vacation because he can't afford to. Or retire because he can't afford to. You get the idea. I don't believe that only the rich guys in America should be allowed to live a decent life. It would be great if everyone could be a multi-millionaire entertainer or sports star, but it's not possible. Doesn't mean a janitor (who is more valuable to society than some CEOs, in my estimation) should have to live like a pauper. I'm all for taxing that ridiculous CEO paycheck and doling it out to those scraping to make a living because said CEO has moved all his company's decent jobs to China and India.

  • Posted By: dhd1491 @ 11/05/2008 6:02:13 PM

    Sorry, but when one guy is working 60 hour weeks and making less than $30k while another is working the same 60 hour week and making $30 mil...that ain't right. I don't care if you say it's because of the decisions that that individual has made...not everyone is going to be a CEO. Not everyone is capable. Doesn't mean that someone who works hard and serves a useful purpose should live in fear of getting sick because he can't afford to. Or can never have kids because he can't afford to. Or can never take a vacation because he can't afford to. Or retire because he can't afford to. You get the idea. I don't believe that only the rich guys in America should be allowed to live a decent life. It would be great if everyone could be a multi-millionaire entertainer or sports star, but it's not possible. Doesn't mean a janitor (who is more valuable to society than some CEOs, in my estimation) should have to live like a pauper. I'm all for taxing that ridiculous CEO paycheck and doling it out to those scraping to make a living because said CEO has moved all his company's decent jobs to China and India.

  • Posted By: DirSCM @ 11/05/2008 4:57:12 PM

    Sorry Robert, but this time you miss the point completely. The point is not that higher taxation on the wealthy will "save the economy." Rather, the point is that tax policy has little to do with economic cycles. We have had a generation of the Republican gospel that all you have to do is lower taxes (and yes, in particular lower taxes for the wealthy) and the magical results will be economic growth that benefits everybody. Well, we have had our tax cuts, and the wealthier you are the more you have enjoyed your tax cut and, guess what, the economy is in total meltdown. So much for Republican gospel. Obama's tax policy was never about fixing the economy. Higher taxes on the wealthy is just a return to the conservative American value of progressive tax structure and fiscal responsibility. To claim this is an attack on American wealth is ludicrous, as is the idea that somehow a 3% increase in marginal tax rate will "dull investment and risk-taking," or wreck our entrepreneurial spirit. Oh please. If I'm in the 36% tax bracket and have an opportunity to make another $1000 but it will mean my tax rate on that extra grand will go to 39%, what am I going to say? No thanks - I would take it if it would net me (1000-360=) $640, but for a measly $610 more in income I'm not doing it?

    Sorry, but if this election proved anything it is that you just can't scare us with that baloney anymore.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse