A Post-Evangelical America

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  • Posted By: Rebelwithacause @ 11/06/2008 9:07:06 PM

    Please expand the definition of the Pro-Obama faithful to include at least a few of those who attend church multiple times a week and whose culture insists on a personal relationship with Christ. I'm a conservative evangelical who not only supported Obama, but who worked hard to sway several of my Christian brothers and sisters. Some evangelicals understand that the separation of church and state was instituted by Christ long before that idea was echoed in our Constitution--and despite being bombarded by the radical right, we vote that conviction.

  • Posted By: Rebelwithacause @ 11/06/2008 9:06:35 PM

    Please expand the definition of the Pro-Obama faithful to include at least a few of those who attend church multiple times a week and whose culture insists on a personal relationship with Christ. I'm a conservative evangelical who not only supported Obama, but who worked hard to sway several of my Christian brothers and sisters. Some evangelicals understand that the separation of church and state was instituted by Christ long before that idea was echoed in our Constitution--and despite being bombarded by the radical right, we vote that conviction.

  • Posted By: junkmail7 @ 11/06/2008 9:04:35 PM

    Well Lisa....have you ever had a 5 year old talk to you about a subject they obviously have little knowledge of? Reading your article and much of the comments...reminds me of such. Contrary to what Obama believes...the Bible actually says there is but one way to Heaven...and that way is acceptance through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

    In your article you describe all these different types of religious faith...and they certainly exists. But you miss the point ....unless one's faith is built upon the acceptance of Christ ...there is no salvation. What good is faith without salvation?

    When my mother steps on the brakes in her car...she doesn't understand the specifics of how the brake system works...but she has faith if she pushes the brake pedal it will stop the car. That faith is like Obama's...it may be grounded in the reality of his experiences...but it no more leads one to salvation then pushing on the brakes in a car.

    Have a nice day.

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 11/06/2008 7:20:45 PM

    This is the double-edged sword of Obamas victory. Try as they may,proponants of gay marriage for example,were faced with the reality that they were dealt by black and latino voters in California and Florida who turned out in large numbers for Obama. A rude slap in the face,as neither of these voting blocs represented the ''white fundie Falwell ''clique they were used to whipping on ,leaving them feeling somewhat betrayed. [ For the record,Obama is opposed to gay marriage,as comporting with his belief system].
    The other edge of the sword will be the diminishing power of the professional race-baiter who prefaces his name with ''Rev.'' attached. Even other black evangelicals have affirmed that they are a ''past''thing,and can no longer go down those old divisive roads in the new way of things. It remains ironic that such things as gay marriage were dumped almost as an afterthought,an ancillary portion of the larger political drama. It was not writ large in the scheme of things,yet died [for now],all the same.

  • Posted By: bclinfo @ 11/06/2008 7:14:29 PM

    It

  • Posted By: RayRod @ 11/06/2008 5:17:05 PM

    It seems to me that President Elect Obama has never been pinned down to what he really believes. His ideas and ideals don't seem to match. His record and associations says he's this person, yet his promises try to tell us he's another person altogether. I just hope the criminal justice system in this Country doesn't prescribe to the same medicine that he's fed the American citizens who voted for him. We arrest someone and they tell us that they never did the crime, don't agree with crime, and then vow to help prevent crime. Gosh, I feel better already...I'll never have to judge someone again on their past behavior.......Trust, Trust, that's what we should do with everybody, without regard to their behavior or actions....just believe what they tell us. Maybe that's Obama's tie to Faith......He just wants us to have faith in what he says, not what he's done. He's going to give 95% of us a tax break, yet he has never even once voted to reduce taxes. 94 times he voted to raise or against tax breaks, but never one time voted to reduce a single tax.....wow !!!!! The new America must have some kind of Faith...........trouble is....it's in the wrong person and the wrong things........It won't matter how much gas cost us if we lose Faith in God and our Moral Compass . Just remember this when you discuss religion with your viewers, The Church of Jesus Christ is His Church and Kingdom...it is
    based upon His Doctrine.......not every wind of doctrine and faith that you've described among the American electorate. His Kingdom works from the Top down, not the bottom up....and remember this....IF YOU HAVEN'T CHOSEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD FIRST, IN THE END IT WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE WHAT ELSE YOU HAVE CHOSEN INSTEAD.........You will harvest what you have sown.

    • Posted By: buzzboyd @ 11/06/2008 6:04:11 PM

      The last thing we need is a President who depends too much on prayer. Faith and religion are two different things. I think the real sin is closing one's mind to all the wonders of life and diversity of thought. Just because a thing is not written in a book (that men have written and tinkered with) does not automatically mean that thing is invalid. Secularism and Pragmatism have their place. Without it we are all doomed to send each other to hell.

      • Posted By: indyinaz @ 11/06/2008 6:35:37 PM

        The catch is that if you want diversity of thought - you have to be open to evangelicals we well - those (not you) who are name calling and putting labels on all evangelicals clearly are not open to "diversity of thought"

        • Posted By: buzzboyd @ 11/06/2008 7:11:06 PM

          A closed mind is a closed mind, no matter where it comes from. Evangelicals may be getting beat up a bit, but I think not as bad as Muslims in this country. Time to step back, take deep breath.

        • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 11/06/2008 6:41:46 PM

          Very true!

    • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 11/06/2008 6:32:31 PM

      The Christian religion was built from the bottom up. This is not a Christian nation, it is a nation that is free to choose how it worships, and whether it worhips. The evangelical movement had become way to political, way too much like what Jesus warned against. If you are not with us you are against us. I realize that many Evangelicals do not feel that way, but it was a driving force in thier plan to make this a Christian nation.

    • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 11/06/2008 6:27:18 PM

      Or maybe we can set up terror camps for terrorists and suspected terrorists and the innocent. We can torture the innocent as if they are criminals and even kill them. We did that, George Bush/Dick Cheney (remember him saying we had to go to the dark side).

      Where was God in this??

    • Posted By: scrybe74 @ 11/06/2008 6:02:45 PM

      I understand what you are trying to say about trust and someone's record but the same argument can be said for McCain. He was involved in the Keating 5 scandal and was reprimanded as a result. What about McCain's continuing "association" and relationship with the convicted Watergate burglar and domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

      I'm not saying that you should or should not be concerned. Obama is relatively new on the scene and has lot to prove himself for but to argue that he is untrustworthy or a liar based on things dug up in his past when one can easily find similar past missteps with McCain is a fault argument. Kettle calling the pot black. There are very big political and idealogical differences between the two men and only time will tell which man would have truly been better for the job but I think either man would deserve a fair shot at getting it right. In this case Obama clearly won and I would hope that those americans that didn't vote for him would give him the chance to prove himself.

    • Posted By: indyinaz @ 11/06/2008 5:22:24 PM

      Amen to that.

  • Posted By: indyinaz @ 11/06/2008 4:54:55 PM

    A "Christ"ian believes in Jesus Christ (hence, the name). So, I don't get anyone saying they are a Christian because they believe in God, but are not born again. All Christians are born again thru Christ's sacrafice...And, God and Jesus are one in the same....i think this is pretty basis stuff, no?

    • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 11/06/2008 6:54:40 PM

      In my view a Christian is a "follower" of Christ, not just a "believer". And following Christ is a daily thing, a journey, not a line you say then you are saved. Unfortunately, it is sold that way in many Churches,

  • Posted By: indyinaz @ 11/06/2008 4:57:04 PM

    I really don't get anyone saying they are a Christian because they believe in God, but they are not born again. All Christian's are born again, i.e., when Christ died for their sins he gave them new life. So, it just doesn't make sense to say I'm a chrisitan who believes in God, but not so sure about Jesus. Well, it is called "Christ"ianity for a reason...and God and Jesus are one in the same. I think that is pretty basis stuff, no?

    • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 11/06/2008 6:50:52 PM

      When people speak of born again we generally know what they are saying correct? Somebody that had this transformation through accepting Christ. It is repeat these lines and you are saved, Many that have issues such as drug and alcohol addictions are transformed, and then get this addiction to having to come to the well of Jesus to keep from wandering back into thier addictions. Typically very vulnerable they get involved and many lose sight as to the reality of Jesus teachings and find tghat they have a power of the spirit, and feel they can pass judgments. I understand that what i am saying is sort of narrow, but it does apply and it is the story of many many 'born again' Christians.

  • Posted By: HailCorduroy @ 11/06/2008 6:37:20 PM

    I've seen this same survey mentioned in several articles and I wish these reporters would actually think about what they are writing and quit quoting this particular line of the survey: "a quarter of atheists say they believe in a higher power or universal spirit." Either the survey question was worded oddly, or there are a lot of people that call themselves atheists and have no idea what it means. The word means the disbelief of any higher power, so someone is mistaken.

  • Posted By: buzzboyd @ 11/06/2008 6:24:25 PM

    Likeitis, I would say the same thing to you that I say to bible thumpers. Keep an open mind. The worms will still think you taste fine.

  • Posted By: scrybe74 @ 11/06/2008 5:50:03 PM

    Part II....

    So....I think the fact that Obama was elected by Christians does not disqualify those who voted for him from their faith. I do not believe that because he is pro-choice...that ANYONE but God can decide whether he is welcome in the kingdom of heaven. Why is abortion alone more important than many of the other sins on our society? Why do we not follow Jesus??? other social causes (poverty, sickness, peace)? Isn't it true that in God's eyes all sins are equal? What happened to...He who is without sin may throw the first stone...?

    I am just happy as a life long Christian that the world is able to see that there is more than 1 face representing the teachings of Christ in this country and that love, tolerance, acceptance and peace are still apart of or faith.

    • Posted By: scrybe74 @ 11/06/2008 6:04:51 PM

      haha...I wouldn't have put it quite they way you did but I agree with where you coming from. Simply put...I cannot imagine Jesus himself saying some of things coming out of the mouths of other Christians. It's almost like they don't actually READ his words in the bible. Shocking eh?

  • Posted By: lmillerj3 @ 11/06/2008 5:08:31 PM

    I can agree with you on one thing...there are a lot of folks who go to church once a week,etc., etc.....and they are not "born again Christi;ans". If you are, you know you are salt and light to the world and you cannot compromise the values taught in the value on the basis of the needs of your wallet or the desire to see someone of color elected to office. I will pray for President elect Obama as I did for George Bush, Bill Clinton.... But don't overreach. The same folks who you say turned from a faith based attitude were absolutely clear in letting Mr. Obama know that they are not ready for "compassionate" judges who go against the will of the people on key social issues. Across the board there was a resounding "no" given to a return to Clinton social policies. Try to push too hard in these areas and 4 years is all you will get. And the next 4 years will be "hell on earth".

    • Posted By: scrybe74 @ 11/06/2008 5:57:09 PM

      How is it that YOU feel you have the right to decide who is a christian or not? Were we not taught to never judge? That God judges all?

  • Posted By: Christian-man @ 11/06/2008 5:56:16 PM

    Thank you for this article Newsweek. I am so tired of the overly righteous bigotry of self proclaimed evangelical conservatives. They are the absolute epitome of Christianity slander. They threaten like terrorists, screech and yell like rabid dogs and rank right up there with extremists of other religions. They preach fear, they hate to their core and dismiss any of Gods children who do not accept their ugly, single-minded beliefs. How unbelievable arrogant to threaten "hell on earth", as if they can call it down from the heavens with assumed authority. Their lack of integrity and unethical behavior is appallingly filled with sinful pride. They just don't get it yet. They have wagged their oversized tongues so much that people are starting to turn their backs on their lunacy.
    If you want to "save" people in Christ's name, alienation won't cut it. I think it is time they examine their terroristic souls and save themselves while leaving the rest of the non-extreme Christians alone.
    I would be guessing God is getting awfully tired of your actions in His name........ You will definitely reap what you sow and I would be willing to bet the crop is going to be sadly sparse.
    And just in case the evangelicals forget this, God's on my side also, along with his son Jesus.

  • Posted By: Nick67 @ 11/06/2008 5:05:53 PM

    I do not share the author's belief of anything 'post-evangelical.' Reagan carried 49 states in '84. GWB's administration was the most completely incompetent America has ever seen. McCain STILL carried over 45% of the vote. That says that those who do not vote based on reason, but rather on faith, tradition, bias and belief in disinformation now comprise almost a majority of Americans. There is nothing to be optimistic about. Far too many Americans have their minds firmly closed. It will be very difficult to fix the problems Americans face when so very many are not listening to reason. NO ONE rational should have voted republican this cycle. That so many STILL did so is very ominous. The last time there was such a marked disconnect between belief and reality in the western world led to Nazi Germany. God help America.

  • Posted By: jcwils @ 11/06/2008 4:54:35 PM

    Here is a fascinating quote from 1787 when Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
    Does this strike anyone else as likely given the promises we've heard from the pres-elect?

  • Posted By: summer1216 @ 11/06/2008 4:22:32 PM

    Why wouldn`t you put a story like this in your magazine also? This is such an inspiring article!

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