Detroit: Begging For Help

Anyone know what an average pension for auto workers is? Include bennies like the lifelong free health care. Just a ballpark figure would be interesting.

Corporate America has been rewarding inept, greedy executives for decades. Does the American public really want to continue doing the same?

Spartanacus - You are an idiot. You're basing your opinion on a movie? Who made that movie you moron?

Good riddance GM? Are you kidding me? I'm not going to say they didn't make mistakes - they did. GM didn't kill the electric car. Why don't you try? It's no small task. It's even less attractive when people (including a surprising growth for SUV sales in Europe) continued to buy SUV's and trucks. The electric car wasn't ready to be mass produced. They intended from the start to lease them and scrap them. Maybe you should look back in history my friend. Steam cars, electric cars - they've been around for almost a hundred years! You sound as if the EV1 was some savior that was hung on the cross. Bunk.

Chrysler above GM? You have no clue what you're saying.

If the Big 3 want the U.S. Taxpayer to bail them out because of their poor marketing and management decisions, the industry (both management and labor) need to feel the pain of their mistakes. Keeping workers on the payroll while being laid off, inability to bring alternative fuel vehicles to the marketplace, sub-standard quality products being sold in the marketplace, etc... are all indications of companies that need to look at internal solutions before they ask us (U.S. Taxpayer) to subsidize their long, painful road to failure.

It's not just the auto industry as 'Detroit' that is suffering; the whole area is suffering. Aside from placing blame on the car companies, the people and the areas around the city of Detroit are in absolutely dire straits. We need the American auto industry. If it is not helped out by the government or receices some type of assitance you can kiss the whole state of Michigan good bye.
If the companies get help and then screw up AGAIN- then it's time to say things such as 'good riddance' to GM. But right now it's no time to be blaming and acting as if we are all perfect and may place blame.

I bet GM wishes they didn't scrap every last EV-1 on the planet. Rent "Who Killed The Electric Car" if you haven't seen it yet. Good riddance GM. Hopefully Chrysler and Ford can work something out to bail out Detroit at least.

I bet GM wishes they didn't scrap every last EV-1 on Earth. I recommend watching "Who Killed The Electric Car" for you all. Good riddance GM. I hope Chrysler and Ford can survive and show you how it's done.

Detroit has a classic chicken-and-egg problem which they have exascerbated over the last 10 years. The public has always been endeared to large, flashy vehicles and Detroit has only been too anxious to whet their appetites for bigger and more feature-optioned vehicles. While the public votes with their wallet, truly visionary companies can market their way into new territory and could have spent the last few years working to convince customers that smaller, greener, (and cheaper) cars were in their best interest. Not tiny Euro smart cars, but something much more practical and innovative than Lincoln Navigators, Cadillac Escalades, Hummers, or 1500 pickup trucks. They can claim that the public wouldn't listen, but shame on them for not even trying. Let at least one of the companies collapse, it will ease the congestion.

Good news if they go broke which they are ;
We can get rid of way too high paid exec salaries and the unions

Let's boil the failure of Detroit down to the simple elements of the failure.
Success in the auto industry is best in Japan. Failure in the auto industry is worst in Detroit.
The highest emphasis in what to produce and how to produce it in Japan is first on quality and second on the profit then to be made.
The highest emphasis in what to produce in Detroit is profit and somewhere down the line is quality after the gimmickry which is used to make the public think that Detroit's vehicles are what they really want.

The difference between these simple elements in auto manufacture and distribution explains best what we see today in what is being driven by our citizens and which system is the most successful.

The Japanese system is prosperous even in these troubled times and the Detroit system is begging for billions of dollars to keep them in this same failed and neurotic behavior.

Detroit ignored rising fuel costs and continued to make and push their gas guzzling SUVs. The energy crisis has been a long time coming and they ignored the big picture to make huge profits and huge bonuses. I am amused to read that they will cut back executive bonuses now. That should have happened when they started laying people off. These executives made very bad decisions, in light of a changing economy and soaring fuel prices, and now they stand at the feet of Congress and the White House, groveling for money. I say any bailout be contingent on putting new leadership at those companies, who are progressive in their thinking and management styles. And for the love of God, no bonuses until we see profits from the green technology!!!

What makes the US auto industry any more critical to the US economiy than the woolen mills, shoe factories and other industries that got displaced by foreign competition before them? I understand that this means job losses, but there have already been lots of job losses in the auto industry. What is the payback for any government investment/bailout? The US auto industry has ignored market trends for decades and in the process lost their market. I'm not convinced we aren't throwing good money after bad if we choose to bail them out.

The bottom line is very simple - you have to make a product that people want to buy. Apparently, all the brain power in Detroit is incapable of recognizing this critical point. Detroit has for too long relied upon marketing campaigns - "our message is not getting through to our target market." Your offerings are not the best quality, not the most reliable, not the most stylish, not the most technology advanced - and the list goes on. Detroit - your target market is your illusion of products that you want to build. How stupid do you have to be to screw up for 30 years? Give me more money, I promise I will do better now...not with the current managers and products you won't!

The problem with the economy is the government keeps looking at the "Big Picture" ignoring the nuts and bolts, as a result we have an economic system that has no nuts and bolts and has fallen apart.
The nuts and bolts are of course the small business's that have until recent times fueled the economy, just look at the thousands of small business's Wal-Mart has pushed into oblivion.
But the Governments part in this stems from the attitudes and practices of the IRS.
The fact of the matter is if you start a small business, the first thing you do is by equipment do some advertising, purchase materials to produce what ever it is you intend to manufacture and sell. These expenditures are tax deductable, the tax laws are written to encourage people to start businesses.
The first thing the IRS does is to audit you, when you are audited regardless of how careful you might be in documenting your expenditures, in the end you will write a check, one way or the other.
The audits will go on until you give up any thought of continuing your business.
The IRS takes great pride in the fact 7 out of 10 business's fail in the first three years what they don't say is many fail since the IRS itself has taken an inordinate amount of your time and attention not to mention cash.
While the Government bails out the banks and automakers they are simultaneously stopping any small business from succeeding, what this country needs is a period of time three years say, that the government specifically the IRS stays away from startup business???s.
The fact is we can compete with the Chinese, Chinese goods always increase in cost because of broker fees and transportation essentially raising the cost of manufactured goods to the same level that would be the case if the goods were manufactured in the US, not to mention the value of higher quality.

These auto companies continued to make gas guzzling SUV's and mega trucks because they thought that's what the people wanted instead of creating getting on the market economy high mpg cars and hybrids. They don't deserve any money just like Wall St didn't deserve any money. Delaying has cost them money and unfortunately the workers for these companies are the ones being punished. We should only bail out the pension plans and help the employess find new jobs in companies helping the enviroment and not ONE CENT directly to these companies or their billionaire CEO's.

Great article Keith! Detroit is the epitome of why the repugnant ones have wrecked our country and economy. The repugnant ones, including McCain, kept protecting Detroit automakers from facing the reality of making vehicles with higher fuel efficiency. They made matters worse in the 90's when they passed increased tax depreciation on SUV's so that the flunky Detroit automakeers could make more profit per overweight gas guzzling vehicle. Now I'm laughing at how low Detroit has sunk because the foolish automakers would not face the reality that we needed more fuel efficeint vehicles over 30 years ago. I decided to just buy more fuel efficient Nissan cars over the past 25 years that lasted longer than any junk Detroit auto I ever owned.

Detroit can only blame itself and the repugnant ones for hiding from the reality that we need more fuel efficient cars that weigh less. Now us Democrats have to come in and clean up the mess of the rich and greedy automakers and repugnant one politicians.

Seems fairly easy to me. Any taxpayer help to these greed filled execs needs to be tied to some risk on their part as far as developing greener solutions to energy /transporation issues. Halting production of the (what is the opposite of green - maybe brown?) less than energy efficient and polluting models would be a start.