Detroit: Begging For Help

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  • Posted By: lester13 @ 11/10/2008 10:08:56 AM

    The auto industry is about 30yrs behind in making reliable cars. The Japanese and now Korean makers produce a product that will hold up for years without repeated trips to the dealer for service while American cars are getting a mediocure rating in reliability. Now we, the american tax payer, are caught between the rock and a hard place. We either let the American car makers go under, which usually is what happens to poorly producing industries, and face ecconomic disaster or we put at rick billions of dollars of tax payer dollars to save an industry that may not do what it needs to save itself.

  • Posted By: Matteo1543 @ 11/10/2008 3:29:05 AM

    I live in Detroit and the economy in Michigan is based around the auto industry. If only the country could see how we are loosing jobs, struggling to pay our bills, and how depressed the city has been for years. Its unfair to portray Detroit as beggers and lazy. WE ARE NOT BEGGERS!!! The economy here would crumble if the auto industry went down. The bailout is going mostly to keep jobs so we can make energy efficient cars.

    • Posted By: Elaininpcola @ 11/10/2008 10:03:16 AM

      Matteo, maybe the rest of the country is tired of paying huge amounts for cars that are substandard, so uneducated, unskilled auto workers, who got their jobs because a relative worked there, are making $35 an hour doing many jobs monkeys could be trained to do. Cut off the fat lifetime pensions and top of the line health care, and we may have a little more sympathy. The unions did this to themselves!

    • Posted By: njhewson @ 11/10/2008 5:28:19 AM

      Matteo, it seems like you are the only Detroiter on here. Sadly, I had to leave Detroit after 42 years just to live. To everyone else, guess what? Detroit is not just car companies and auto execs. It is comprised of families, hard working people trying desperately to break even in life. The men and women who build these cars don't get to decide what they are going to build, they do not design them, they are just trying to feed their kids and warm their homes. So, to anyone who wants to bust on Detroit, take a week or so, go up there and look at the faces of the people living there, unable or unwilling to let go of what their lives have meant for so long. While this is about money, it is about people's lives too. Little kids, old folks, everyone there is affected by what happens in the industry. Walk a mile in those shoes before you assume you know what you're talking about.
      Take care of yourself Matteo, and good luck. Say hi to Detroit for me.

    • Posted By: njhewson @ 11/10/2008 5:28:17 AM

      Matteo, it seems like you are the only Detroiter on here. Sadly, I had to leave Detroit after 42 years just to live. To everyone else, guess what? Detroit is not just car companies and auto execs. It is comprised of families, hard working people trying desperately to break even in life. The men and women who build these cars don't get to decide what they are going to build, they do not design them, they are just trying to feed their kids and warm their homes. So, to anyone who wants to bust on Detroit, take a week or so, go up there and look at the faces of the people living there, unable or unwilling to let go of what their lives have meant for so long. While this is about money, it is about people's lives too. Little kids, old folks, everyone there is affected by what happens in the industry. Walk a mile in those shoes before you assume you know what you're talking about.
      Take care of yourself Matteo, and good luck. Say hi to Detroit for me.

  • Posted By: newt856 @ 11/10/2008 9:58:18 AM

    The American Tax payers should not be bailing out big businesses. The heads of these companies should be fired and not receive any restitution. The car industry in this country never got it right. They have let Foreign imports take over, because they were unwilling to make a kind of car that the American people wanted and needed. The Federal Gov. in no way should get into the car industry. Also get rid of the Unions.

  • Posted By: tebrom @ 11/10/2008 1:17:21 AM

    re: "They promise to pay back those loans, just as Chrysler did nearly three decades ago. "

    I still remember the Lee Iacocca commercials touting K-cars. He cut his pay to $1 when Chrysler went hat in hand for government loans back in the '70s. Here's hoping that Congress watches out for taxpayers instead the car execs who pay themselves $5-$10 mill per year while running their companies into the ground.

    • Posted By: Matteo1543 @ 11/10/2008 3:31:53 AM

      obviously you have no clue about Detroit and the auto industries impact on our city and state.

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/10/2008 9:50:33 AM

        Well Matteo, since we have no clue then maybe Detroit and Michigan can pay for these bailouts themselves. You certainly don't need the help of a bunch of people who are too ignorant to understand the impact of large industries on the economy!!

  • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 11/10/2008 9:50:03 AM

    If GM, Ford and Chrysler are awareded Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which are the creditors that will be protected? Which ones won't? What happens to union contracts, union pensions, union health care if a company files for bankruptcy? What happens to the stock holders?

    How much clout would a bankruptcy judge have? Could they impose management salary freezes? Dividend freezes? Renegotiate union contracts? Restructure dealership and maintenance agreements?

    If the taxpayers are going to be asked to foot the bill for the auto industry's mistakes, why not let the money go towards unemployment, funds for retraining workers, interest-free loans for housing - we do it for communities ravaged by floods and hurricanes, why not for Michigan and other communities heavily tied to the auto industry?

    Why is a bankruptcy restructure seen as the worst solution? Handled correctly, is could be the best answer.

  • Posted By: Willian C DeMuth @ 11/10/2008 9:23:43 AM

    Let them burn. From the ashes we can build anew if the market wants it., and if the market does not want it we can not stop the inevitable.

  • Posted By: sickofmedia1973 @ 11/10/2008 9:19:15 AM

    Why doesn't this article - or any other - describe why the auto companies are in this problem? They are quick to blame low SUVs sales and the price of gas, but what about the unions? Aren't they a big part of the problem - with their ridiculous salary, pension and health care/prescription benefit arangements that handcuff the manufactures and suck all of the profits out from under shareholders? But the liberal media would never report on that aspect of the story. Wonder why?

  • Posted By: nonothing @ 11/09/2008 11:01:40 PM

    The reason the car companies are struggling is because there is too much capacity. Consumers can and will choose the brands that deliver the highest quality and the features they want. GM and Ford have consistently failed to deliver products that are sufficiently competitive to justify the productive capacity they possess. Money has not been the problem, the problem is lack of competetive products. Government subsidies will serve only to perpetuate this imbalance. Sorry, but it appears that they have lost the war to Toyota and Honda. We will be better off dealing with their failure through traditional mean such of job training, relocation benefits, universal health care, etc... r

    • Posted By: jll65 @ 11/10/2008 8:17:36 AM

      Hey nonothing, it was a good thing you weren't running the country after Pearl Harbor. You would have just surrendered with your current logic.

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/10/2008 9:15:15 AM

        jll65 - Your comment makes no sense, nonothing is pointing out the truth as so many others on this board are doing. I can understand the desire to bail out companies that are this bit but then where does it stop? Do we only bail out companies that employ 10,000+? 5000+? 50+? Where do we stop once we are on this slippery slope? This country was built on hard work and determination, not handouts and greed. We need to get back to business basics and stop paying execs in ANY industry tens of millions of dollars a year no matter their peformance level.

  • Posted By: singlemom2 @ 11/10/2008 9:11:50 AM

    I don't understand why we would give money to big businesses as a method of stilmulating the economy. If you want to give the economy a boost, give the money to "the people", we will spend it thus boosting sales for businesses. By giving money to the companies directly tax payers pay the cost but get none of the benefit.

  • Posted By: peteess @ 11/10/2008 9:02:14 AM

    These fatcat bastards snarl aggressively when we question their multi-million dollar bonusses they award themselves simply for doing their jobs in a growing economy, yet the minute there are losses they become socialists and we, the taxpayers, must bail them out, or else!
    Where's the holy grail free market capitalism now, you jerks!?

  • Posted By: msoditch @ 11/10/2008 8:39:15 AM

    The auto companies have been looting from the main street economy to pay wall street for a long time now. Just making profit isn't good enough instead wall street demands continuously increasing profits. This and exec incentives based on quarterly results drive short term decision making. The incentives need to be changed. Base exec bonuses on 3-5 year performance not 3 month.

  • Posted By: jll65 @ 11/10/2008 8:08:42 AM

    I would like to understand the distinction between Wallstreet begging for money from Gov't being considered the finest form of Capitalism and when Main Street, the US. Auto Industry (for example) asks for Gov't loans it is considered dirty Socialism?

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/07/2008 9:14:50 PM

    The reason for their trouble is unions. Bancruptcy is their best bet (like it was for avia companies), because it will allow get rid of those punishing contracts. Unfortunately, as we know, Obama is now in power, and he will definitely help his union friends by granting our bailout money to GM and Ford. As a result, unions will keep sucking automakers' (and our) blood for next 4 years. Then inavitable bancruptcy still will happen, but axpayers will never get their money back, as it was promiced by Bush. This is the first finansial result of so much wished "change". The others will follow.

    • Posted By: metahands2 @ 11/08/2008 12:19:07 AM

      Obama will not be in power until Jan 20, 2009, Unions are not the problem--how about guessing--Derelict management

      • Posted By: schaefers @ 11/10/2008 8:07:57 AM

        Unions are not free of blame completely, and management sure as hell isn't blameless either. One of the biggest Toyota, et al have over the Big 3 - lack of pensions to fund. Toyota employees (as well as Nissan, and I'm guessing Honda) don't get company paid pensions....401k plans are it. Therefore they don't have a huge retirement force that they have to continue supporting with pensions and rising-cost medical plans.

        The Big 3 need to be overhauled, seriously. From eliminating lucrative management pay and bonuses, down to the cost of future pensions and medical plans.

        Frankly, I don't think the government should bail out the Big 3 ... however I do think they should pony up the money to help the affected families and local economies (to find other work and to bring in other industries to support the economy as the Big 3 continue to flounder).

    • Posted By: metahands2 @ 11/08/2008 12:25:52 AM

      sorry Bighappy--manafement is the problem--they're the one's who made all the decisions--unions don't run auto companies--this is on Bush's watch; Obama doesn't take over until Jan 20, 2009

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/08/2008 12:40:19 AM

        It is the well-known fact that GM has to pay more its workers than foreign companies (especially Japanese), they also have to provide them with special pencion plans, be careful with new technology (such as robots) because unions will not let them substitute people with mashines. As a result, their productivity is lower than competitors, and managers had to compensate with some doubrful tactics which now makes them look stupid. Nobody can compete in this environment, Detroit is dead.

        • Posted By: wh4752 @ 11/08/2008 3:36:53 PM

          I hate to burst your bubble, but I worked in Detroit on the lines during shutdowns, and the majority of the assembly line is done by robotics, including painting, the only things done by people are things that can't be done by robotics.

    • Posted By: JSSlighted @ 11/08/2008 12:02:32 AM

      Did President-elect Obama take over he Whitehouse yet or is Bush still calling the shots? If it was uo to me there would be no bailout of Wall Street or any other Greed-led Company in this Good Old US of A!!!

    • Posted By: Vypurr @ 11/07/2008 9:44:59 PM

      When in the hell did Bush promise this??? Bush asked congress for millions back in his first term for the big three to develop hydrogen... have they done it? Of course not.

      They went to lunch on it.

  • Posted By: jll65 @ 11/10/2008 8:06:35 AM

    I would like to know why when Wall Street beg's for money from the Gov't and gets it, It is considered the finest form of supporting Capitalism. When Main Street like the Auto makers ask for loans it is considered Socialism?

  • Posted By: cvb10088 @ 11/10/2008 6:33:14 AM

    We need the likes of GM and Ford to remain.,Otherwise Toyota and Honda and the rest will not have political incentive to keep plants here. Then we'll have none.

  • Posted By: cvb10088 @ 11/10/2008 6:31:09 AM

    We need the likes of GM and Ford to remain. Otherwise Toyota and Honda and the rest have no political incentive to keep plants here. Then we'll have none.

  • Posted By: oscarlei @ 11/10/2008 5:56:21 AM

    So GM now wants to make fuel-efficient cars. Between 1933 and 1955, GM along with some other companies formed a corporation which bought the street cars with the sole purpose of closing down the operation of the existing mass transit - so there won't be any competition to their automobiles. There is a need for a policy to provide an efficient mode of mass transit system. This will give jobs to those GM workers who were laid off.

  • Posted By: ctruskey @ 11/09/2008 2:39:42 AM

    It is wrong for the government to bail out anyone or any company. So let the B3 fall and let them rebuild stronger. One reason for the failure of the auto makers - UNIONS! So hopefully by failing the Unions will begin to understand the world market place and try to learn something about staying competetive. 95% of the people are paying their mortgage and not asking for a government handout because we were smart enought to know what we were signing and what we could afford. Let the other 5% lose their homes. It is said you learn more from failure then success.

    • Posted By: wh4752 @ 11/09/2008 1:11:24 PM

      so, getting rid of unions is the answer, or part of the answer in your estimation. so what, we return to the draconian days of the industrial reveloution? I am a union Ironworker, and I totaly disagree with your take on unions. Every day we go to work our life is on the line, for what, $50k a year? When did the fatcat CEO's and upper management ever put their live on the line for the millions they take every year in pay and bonuses. We Union people built this Country with our swet and blood, and you think we don't deserve a wage we can live on in this economy? Well, it's not the unions, if the corp's in this country had their way, we would be nothing more than slaves, and working in any conditions they demand for the sake of their profit. Mabey you should get off your office chair and put a few years in our shoes, you might rethink your opnion.

      • Posted By: ctruskey @ 11/10/2008 2:07:17 AM

        I grew up in a Union family. My dad was part of a union all his working days. I was a member of the union when I worked the coal fields of PA. So I know the history of unions and the great things they did for working people, but I also know when unions are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

        • Posted By: Matteo1543 @ 11/10/2008 3:43:35 AM

          I agree and I live in Detroit and am disgusted with this article manipulating Americans Detroit is begging for money. We are trying to save jobs so people can feed their families. The economy is horrible here and the auto industry is the backbone of the economy. We need the money to make energy efficient cars and keep jobs, unions alive, and thrive our economy.

      • Posted By: myvoice63 @ 11/09/2008 7:40:24 PM

        Did you graduate from high school? Did you graduate from college and earn a degree? If you answered YES to BOTH of the questions above, then you indeed should be earning more. If you answered NO to either or both questions above, then you are making the fair amount of annual salary.

        In high school and in college, everyone had always told me that graduating from high school and earning a college degree will enable you to get a good job with a good salary. Explain to me how a union worker who didn't finish high school and didn't go to college is ENTITLED to earn MORE than a college grad on their first job? EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT IS FAIR? Unions breed generations of high paid workers without college degrees. There are choices in this world. One does not have to work in a factory. There are a gazillion people in Detroit who don't work in factories, went to college and earned a degree.

        • Posted By: ironhead55 @ 11/09/2008 8:47:46 PM

          seems to me that the working man is taking the brunt of this fine mess we're in right now. seems to me we got into this mess by you people. you know. the ones with the college degrees

          • Posted By: ctruskey @ 11/10/2008 2:20:49 AM

            Big business, big government and big labor all are to blame for the mess we are in. I finished hight school but not college and I make a 6 figure income now. Why, because I have skills learned over the years that are needed and private companies are willing to pay for, but I started out making $245 a month in 1977. That's the difference I knew that without a degree I wouldn't get a high paying job right out of the gate.

      • Posted By: smallbizowner @ 11/09/2008 11:59:06 PM

        Seems to me that labor unions are a huge reason the big 3 and others are in this current mess. Why are auto workers or any union workers more special and deserving than the rest of us? Why should they be protected more than anyone else if they are not competitive? I own a small company with 32 employees. Most earn minimum wage type salaries. Do you know what their job security is? It is me making the company work and them working their butts off everyday. Not making stupid bets ;Watching costs; Being the most competitive company in my industry. Do you know what happens if I make the wrong bet or if I fail? My company goes down, I am on the street, and all of my employees are on the street. No one will bail me out nor do I want them to. If a labor union comes into my plant and works against my company then the result is very simple. I am out of business immediately and 32 people are on the street. Why are the big banks, big auto companies, big airline companies, big farmers, etc. so special to deserve bailouts? Why are their union employees so special to deserve ridiculous salaries and job security that makes their companies less competitive? I have zero job security and am constantly one false move away from going out of business. So I watch everything carefully. I don't waste. I make smart bets. I don't buy what I can't afford. Because I (unlike the big guys in our newly socialized country) cannot afford to make mistakes so I don't.

        On another note, you want job security and a good wage? It is really very simple...Work hard, show up everyday, don't take drugs or drink, speak English, and have half a brain and you will do great with my company and many others just like it. I'll pay you lots. By the way, of the 100's of people I interview yearly about 1% posses the traits that I just mentioned. Of those another 1% are American unfortunately. And I don't care one iota about a college degree.

        In summary we as a nation were built by hard working Americans that were not looking for government protection, union protection, or handouts. We showed up for work, worked damn hard, used our brains, and tried to help our companies and families survive. That is what is missing today and that is the very simple reason that we are in the mess that we are in.

  • Posted By: jlgab @ 11/08/2008 8:23:53 PM

    How big are the multi-million dollar bonuses that all the execs in the auto industry get? Take those bonuses and sink that money into smart car production and/or research for more feul efficient cars. Oh, or is that too much like socialism? We need incentives for people to buy more feul efficient cars and higher sales tax rates or extra sur-charges for people who buy Hummers.

    • Posted By: Matteo1543 @ 11/10/2008 3:37:33 AM

      I would get actual numbers before you make a comment like that. The CEO's of the big 3 dont make nearly what the CEO's of other large corporations make. Your wrong completely

  • Posted By: CoCoPA @ 11/10/2008 12:32:10 AM

    Hey Soccer Moms & Dads....you wanted Guzzlers/SUVs so Detroit gave you Guzzlers/SUVs. You loved showing off your new Escalades, Hummers and F150s bought with credit you really didn't deserve. What thrill do you feel now?

    And guess what! Biden's prediction of Obama being tested early in his term is coming true. Obama is going to back the Big 3.....and you're not going to like it. You voted him in....what thrill do you feel now?

    • Posted By: Matteo1543 @ 11/10/2008 3:32:57 AM

      Hey greedy nasty republican you want a bailout on your mortgage lender than we deserve a bailout to save our jobs

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