What Are Rich People Thinking?

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  • Posted By: mikeb01 @ 11/12/2008 4:05:13 PM

    I think they still voted withe their wallets. All these people w/ money most likely have a good portion of that in either stocks, real estate or both. These two areas have taken huge hits overshadowing any concerns about tax increases. The complete mismanagement of the financial markets on the Republican's watch drives everyone to take a hard look at who should be running the country. I'm not rich and I voted Democrat for the first time ever.

  • Posted By: nickgr @ 11/12/2008 3:55:34 PM

    Either the religious people consent to the doctrine " there is no life till the 12th week of pregnancy ",or the Reps will end up with 100 reps ...

    America is a secular state.

    Secular means,abortions ( at least till the 12th week ) legal,same-sex civil marriage legal...

    We should not mess with other people's marriages & wombs,
    so that we can demand from other people not to interfere with our guns & our money ( through compulsory taxation ).

  • Posted By: wilder @ 11/12/2008 3:39:35 PM

    Kermudge,
    If abortion is a choice, so is killing someone who cuts you off in traffic. Why is one wrong and the other right? Passing a law that murdering someone is wrong, has driven it underground as well, but we find and prosecute those who commit murder.

  • Posted By: dragon45 @ 11/10/2008 10:18:03 PM

    Do the people with pro life positions, also support government programs to help bring up children? Do they support pro life pasted birth? Sadly, most law maker do not. They consider it big government. So, how many of the children born now live in poor and unsafe conditions. Perhaps some people are pro life until they have to pay. Are you not concerned about the the pain and suffering that occurs through life? Isn't that pro life?

    • Posted By: MicheleC1 @ 11/10/2008 10:23:48 PM

      I am VERY much pro life throughout childrens life!! I am a neonatal ICU nurse and also a Mom myself. I also donate to the food bank and also to crisis pregnancy centers giving diapers, my kids outgrown clothes etc. I WISH we had leaders that felt the same...it would be so awesome to have ONE party that was pro life across the board, from conception to natural death. Bush is "pro life" meaning anti abortion, yet how many death warrents did he sign as gov of TX? That is why I agonized SO much about this election!!

      • Posted By: MicheleC1 @ 11/10/2008 10:27:16 PM

        We actually DID have a politician like that here in PA...his name was Gov Robert Casey!! His son is now our Senator. In spite of 8 years of Bush, HE, a DEMOCRAT was the ONLY one to go before the supreme court and get restrictions put on abortion at least in our state....waiting periods etc. I consider myself a "Casey Democrat"!!

        • Posted By: Kermudge @ 11/12/2008 1:28:06 PM

          To assume that all "choice" people are FOR abortion is narrow thinking. I'm very much against abortion except in the saving of the mother's life, but I'm "pro choice" because I believe government should stay out of the decision. It is not a federal government issue! Get rid of abortion by working to convince people or the rightness of your argument and by dealing with its causes. Passing a law drives it underground, making matters even worse for the victims.

      • Posted By: agnstheflow @ 11/11/2008 12:20:29 AM

        Michele.........I don't understand the thinking behind the assumption that prolife should include being against the death penalty. Isn't there a huge difference between not allowing an innocent child to live, and putting to death a man who bashes his child's head on a concrete floor until they're dead? How can someone be for the "choice" of murdering an unwanted child yet allow horrible murderers to live their lives at taxpayer's expense? Death penalty for hardened murderers is JUST punishment! Abortion is UNJUSTIFIABLE!
        Yet it's just like our warped society to want murderers to live, innocent children to die and be blind to the difference between them.

    • Posted By: marley07 @ 11/10/2008 10:26:40 PM

      At least you said some. I am pro-life. I pay for it. I had a choice knowing I would have no choice in being involved and I still chose life knowing i would pay for it. But I suppose I should have just said, ahh kill it. Who cares about the value of a living baby, just kill it, and then go use it for science.

  • Posted By: John343 @ 11/12/2008 12:18:24 PM

    Ask Teddy Roosevelt, John McCain's supposed hero, about why we have progressive tax. He instituted it. There are certain economic and social forces in play that enable a progressive tax to make sense. Sociologically, those who succeed and reach the top in what market, will by nature attempt to further limit access to the higher parts of the market in which they are apart of, so as to secure more profit themselves. This creates inequality if certain people have a harder time breaking into markets or the upper levels of some markets. The rich also inherently benefit from the government's protection of the free market more so than the poor. The rich have more investments and rely more on the government's safeguarding of those investments and protecting free trade than the poor who have few investments and who have no control over such trade. The rich just benefit more from the governments service in supporting the free market.

    So unless you have some sort of groundbeaking economic theory that would shatter the basis for our country's history of having a progressive tax, i would suggest doing a bit of research into the matter or atleast speack with criticism with some sort of historical relativism. To say that you're getting screwed over is ignorant. To say that our country is headed towards socialism is ignorant. We've have sociliastic policies in our market since the industrial revolution. No economy exists, nor has ever existed, that has been purely capitalistic. So relax.

  • Posted By: asdfjkl @ 11/12/2008 10:07:54 AM

    Someone please explain to me how it is fair at all to have a graduated tax system. People complain that someone making 18,000 per yr has to pay 1800 in taxes. How about if you make 400,000 per year, and have to pay over 100,000 in taxes. How is that fair? A flat tax is the only way to go. If you work harder and make more, you should not have to pay a higher percentage. If both sides would agree to this, then a person like myself, who only voted McCain due to not wanting to get screwed on my taxes, might have voted for Obama.

  • Posted By: nickgr @ 11/12/2008 9:38:15 AM

    The "loopholes " is urban legend...

    Either u go offshore or u pay taxes to the fullest.

    There is no grey area for rich taxpayers.

    My belief is that the rich are soft & went with the flow.

    Most are old,50+ & have not many good years left to enjoy.

    So,they will buy a Porsche Panamera & a Ferrari California, forgo the political battle & go...car driving...

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 11/12/2008 9:20:51 AM

    Folks, all politicians, Democrats and Republicans alike, play the "Let's soak the rich!" card every election to win votes. And of course the dumbass American voter falls for it every time. How many poor Democrats have you ever seen in congress? You're dumb as a box of rocks if you believe the Democrats stand up for the so-called "working man". Come on, people, act like you got a little sense. Obama promised to soak the rich but I guarantee you he will provide loopholes for them to get out of it as well. The rich never pay their "fair share", whatever that means.

  • Posted By: midwest3232 @ 11/12/2008 9:05:09 AM

    Maybe we are simply tired of republican candidates that robotically say "less taxes, smaller government" instead of candidates that want to engage in a real discussion about pragmatic solutions to real problems. Just maybe this is the result of republican candidates that appear to lack the intellectual curiosity necessary to lead this country into the future. Simply said - maybe we are simply tired of voting for candidates who we believe are stupider than us. Let's call that the new acid test for the presidency.

  • Posted By: nickgr @ 11/10/2008 7:51:40 PM

    mlhoenig,taxes for infra are a very small percentage. of total taxation..

    Social (ist ) security & Medicare/aid are the big bottomless pits.

    I agree that cutting taxes is quite difficult.

    Since we see that the 250K+ rich are not bitchin,this whole conversation is philosophical...

    • Posted By: mlhoenig @ 11/10/2008 8:13:01 PM

      I listed first, the Armed Forces. That is the major tax drain - and believe me, I am all for that particular taxation.

      Social Security is the single most successful government program in world history. Not everyone can afford to retire on their own. Social Security was backed tremendously by both Parties when instituted. The only real problem with Social Security is that there is a cap on how much of our earnings can be taxed; I believe it is currently near $110k/year. Think about this:

      If I earn $36k, I pay 6.5% (I believe that's the current rate)
      If I earn $100k, I pay 6.5%
      If I earn $110k, I pay 6.5%
      If I earn $220k, I pay 3.25%

      Where is the fairnes sin that?

      Especially when one considers that those earning over $110k/yr are also eligible to receive Social Security Retirement benefits? Why? Why should they receive benefits when they don't necessarily need it?

      Two ways I perceive we can "fix" Social Security:

      1) Remove the cap. Permanently. Forever.
      2) Base benefits on _real_ need, not perceived need; in other words, look at each person's history, not only their earnings history, but their total financial history.

      Social Security should never be subject to privatization because, contrary to (apparent) popular belief, the money you put in is not for your retirement. It is for those who are presently receiving benefits. The money I am putting into the Social Security Trust Fund is helping your grandparents and - perhaps - your parents. When I retire, those in the US workforce will be paying for my retirement benefits.

      I am far from wealthy; in fact, I had to file bankruptcy due to a major medical emergency. Still, I lost my home; I was fortunate to have a brother who paid off my auto loan and I am able to drive to work every day.

      I am 53 years old and will likely have less than one year's salary saved up in any personal retirement account within the next 14 years. I have worked since I was 16, and served nine years in the United States Air Force.

      Social Security was enacted appx 80 years ago so people like me would be able to live our lives in dignity after the business world casts us to the wolves.

      It has worked and can continue to work, provided it is continually re-evaluated and updated to reflect the times.

      William Gates III will be able to receive Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. That, my friend, is the biggest load of horse**** I have ever seen!

      Now...I want to state for the record that I am not angry with anyone here...and my words may indeed incite strong feelings...but my words are well-considered opinion, based on research and study.

      • Posted By: martimr1 @ 11/10/2008 11:47:22 PM

        Absolutely! Caps off! Why should the FICA tax be a Christmas Club for high earners? We don't need it! We ALL need a secure retirement. Take it from me: Even getting to $250k/year in middle age doesn't ensure that you were able to save enough to retire unassisted. Stuff happens. (I pity people who turn 65 this year!) We need the social safety nets of sound Social Security and Medicare.

        • Posted By: tbinenstock @ 11/11/2008 12:24:55 PM

          To each according to his need. From each according to his ability. --- Karl Marx.

          Congratualtions, America is dead. Long live AmeriKa.

          • Posted By: mlhoenig @ 11/12/2008 8:44:33 AM

            Well, if that's the way you feel, why don't you just leave my beloved country? Go move to a better, more democratic country.

            What's that? You say there is no other country more democratic than America? Suck up and deal with it, my friend.

            This country is by no means Marxist; nor is President-Elect Barack Obama.

            Paranoia and innuendo are the reason the GOP is where it is today: regional, no longer national.

            I served nine years - VietNam Era - so you could have your opinion. It is, after all, only your opinion, no matter how ridiculous the basis upon which it is formed, nor how foolish it may be.

  • Posted By: magic_marker @ 11/12/2008 4:59:47 AM

    "Wealthy" people also voted for Obama, despite his pledging to raise taxes, because they were sick of the old, tired and vacuuous promises of tax cuts which are clearly unrealistic and empty when the whole country has gone broke.

    Obama / Biden and their economic team showed a firm grip on reality through promising to target their efforts on the MIDDLE CLASS and the poor; if we do not reintroduce compassion into our society to soften the social divisions and untimately, if people do not have money to spend and consume, then nothing works and especially not for the fellas at the top of the capitalist food chain.

    Pretty bloody obvious, really, if you use your head just a little :p

  • Posted By: Greg the Third @ 11/12/2008 3:46:45 AM

    We did not vote for Obama because he is perfect. He is the lesser of the evils. Nothing could be worse than the Bush administration, it was a complete and abject failure. What attracted me to Obama was his comittment to end the gulf war defense contractor boondoggle, invest in a greener energy infrastructure, reinvest in science the key to a better future, stop rewarding rich bankers for screwing up the economy while sating their greed and take a pragmatic and thoughtful approach to foreign policy by leading by example that we took for granted in the past. After all if both parties are committed to making government bigger, it is clear that the democrats are better at it since they have been doing it far longer than the neocons.

  • Posted By: nvann @ 11/12/2008 1:07:33 AM

    You didn't answer your question.

  • Posted By: nvann @ 11/12/2008 1:06:50 AM

    You didn't answer your question.

  • Posted By: rindolphus @ 11/12/2008 12:08:02 AM

    Even High School newspaper writers would consider this piece terrible . You completely misused the German word Freude, and you said so little in so many paragraphs. There was an overuse of meaningless statistics and I'm not completely sure what it was all about. Catchy heading though.

  • Posted By: infogiant @ 11/12/2008 12:02:00 AM

    What good does paying less taxes do you if the Republican's in power screw things up so bad that the market is tanking and your portfolio loses 75% of it's value? If there are no gains to pay taxes on, does paying less really help?

    What good does being rich do you if 95% of the rest of the public is having to borrow from their own home equity to live their life?

    Why should the rich and corporations get their taxes lowered only to force the country to borrow from China...increasing their power and reducing the value of the dollar?

    The answers lie in today's reality.

    http://infogiant.wordpress.com/2008/07/17/timeline-part-i-bush-cheney-war-and-oil/

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 11/11/2008 11:59:22 PM

    Well, instead of paying taxes to Uncle Sam we'll be paying taxes to Uncle Remus.

  • Posted By: infogiant @ 11/11/2008 11:47:12 PM

    What good does paying less taxes do you if the Republican's in power screw things up so bad that the market is tanking and your portfolio loses 75% of it's value?

    What good does being rich do you if 95% of the rest of the public is having to borrow from their own home equity to live their life?

    The answers lie in today's reality.

  • Posted By: antonio11 @ 11/11/2008 11:44:41 PM

    Schaden=to hurt. Freude=joy. Schadenfreude=the joy of hurting. To say Bush-hurting, don't use Bushenfreude, which would mean the joy of Bush.

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/11/2008 11:10:02 PM

    It proves that rich does not mean smart. Soon they will se results of their actions, when they join middle class or even poor. Very rich new what they were doing, Obama will not find their income money and in the same time will bail out the biggest companies effectively redistributng wealth in opposite direction. As for poor - they definitely will have lower taxes, zero to be precise.

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