Amvirish, You're right and wrong. Right about the New Deal not beating the depression, we were still in recession if not depression in 1938. But it wasn't because government intervention made things worse it was that there was not enough of it. Though discredited business interests were still powerful and kept FDR from going as far as neccessary but when we entered WWII he had the political cover he needed and the government TOOK OVER THE ECONOMY COMPLETELY (wage and price controls, the whole 9 yards). That's when we finally emerged from the depression. I would say that New Deal programs and policies made the huge post war boom the U.S. experienced possible and it was longer and deeper than the Clinton boom which was based mainly on the tech. bubble. BTW, Sweden came out of the Depression first in 1936 and they didn't do that with so-called "free market capitalism".
Barack The Savior?
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Posted By: SeaHabit49 @ 11/14/2008 4:04:32 PM
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 11/13/2008 6:31:35 PM
Barack The Savior? I wish Newsweek wouldn't deify Obama.
Or at least wait until he can quit smoking.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 12:24:36 PM
Why? Jesus drank wine. In fact, in Luke he berates people for saying he drank too much of it.
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 11/14/2008 2:01:10 PM
I said smoking, not drinking wine.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 2:24:44 PM
What's the difference? Neither one is good for you.
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 11/14/2008 2:45:01 PM
Please... wine in moderation is fine. Smoking kills no matter what. And I didn't mention the serious drugs Obama did in his youth because he no longer uses them. At least I think not..
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 3:07:55 PM
Nice! So, your opinion is that all smokers should be banned from high office?
Am I reading you right? I mean, are we talking constitutional amendment, here?-
Posted By: Forty4 @ 11/14/2008 4:02:44 PM
Howl, If you're going to spin this, at least make it where it isn't so blatant. All I said in my original post was that I wish NW wouldn't make a God out of Obama, at least until he quits smoking. You try to spin the thing into drinking wine, drinking too much wine, Jesus Christ, Luke out of the Bible, Jesus Christ yelling at people for drinking too much, that both wine and cigarettes aren't good for you and finally, that I'm suggesting we ban all smokers from high office with a constitutional amendment!
Hells Bells howl, get a grip why don't you? You're gonna screw yourself right in the ground with all that spinning LOL
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Posted By: outpostus @ 11/14/2008 3:43:21 PM
Capitalism is a formula for human economic growth. To ask if it can be saved is like asking if the rule of Pythagoras can be saved. As the Scarecrow said upon receiving his diploma from the Wizard of Oz, "The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the square root of the remaining side." Can Obama save that?
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Posted By: DianaRo @ 11/14/2008 3:40:47 PM
"The Borgen Project has some good info on the cost of addressing global poverty.
$30 billion: Annual shortfall to end world hunger.
$540 billion: Annual U.S. Defense Budget."
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Posted By: 2gofer @ 11/14/2008 11:14:43 AM
Michael's version of FDR and the great Depression isn't quite complete. FDR did appropriately engage in a degree of socialism. However, this did not enable the economy to recover. The country remained in depression until it entered World War II. FDR then turned to the industrial community that converted their capital to production of war equipment. The outcome of the war, probably, would have been different had this industrial capacity not been available. Did FDR save Capitalism or vice versa?
My research conforms with that of RO in Reno. It is the free enterprise system that Obama needs to address rather that capitalism. The basic element of capitalism is the right to own and exchange property. Hopefully, that is not under threat.
Medical services. I lived in England from 1985 to 1990. Their problems with medical services are a order of magnitude worse than ours. We have a problem with price. They have problems with availability, quality, and cost. My English friends inform me that the situation has deteriorated since 1990 to the point that the only people getting quality care are those who can afford to pay for National care and then use Private services. I have some insight into the situation in Canada that indicates similiar characteristics to England. Government run medical services is not the answer.
DocHowl, I own two American built cars. Features are competitive with foreign alternatives as is cost per mile. There have been zero failures in 120,000 miles of combined service. The only detectable difference is workmanship. Body and trim fit is better on Japanese built products. Design is not the issue.-
Posted By: C. MacLean @ 11/14/2008 12:03:17 PM
2gofer, on healthcare - "We have a problem with price. They have problems with availability, quality, and cost." Not sure how price is different than cost, but trust me: as a registered nurse for 29 years who has seen our system deteriorate, we have a huge problem with availability, quality and cost, too.
Under the old fee-for-service system we proved doctors were lousy businessmen.
Under managed care we have proven businessmen are lousy doctors.
When you try to balance profits and health care, the profits always win, and people's health becomes secondary. We don't have health insurance in this country, we have sick insurance.
Health is not a business, it is a goal, and as long as we focus on what to do with people once they get sick, instead of how to help them get and stay healthy, we will never improve the availablity, quality or the cost, and people will continue to suffer, and we will continue to pay for their suffering. The focus cannot remain on surgery, drugs and medical devices - it must shift to prevention.
Both Obama and McCain's 'health' plans are doomed to failure because they focus on saving money instead of how to achieve and maintain health, although Obama's plan at least pays lip service to the concept.
Government run medical services may not be the answer, but a government that stands by and does nothing to improve health is not the answer, either.-
Posted By: 2gofer @ 11/14/2008 1:51:29 PM
Hi C. MacLean, we have a lot in common to build on. People frequently use Price and cost interchangeably while there is a difference but the two are related. Price is determined by what the market will bear for a given product or service in a free market environment. It is related to cost only indirectly as you illustrate that "Doctors tend to be lousy businessmen and businessmen are lousy Doctors" Total cost to provide the product or service must be less than the price to be sustainable in our free market system. Prices have escallated beyond what many can afford to pay which translates to a availability problem as you state. Medical or "sick" insurance actually increases the industries cost burden as the number of people involved increases and another profit taking entity is added. Thus, fewer people can afford medical insurance than could have afforded fee for service. It is my dubious opinion that "disaster" insurance would be a better option with fee for service for routine medical services. By analogy, it isn't a good investment to purchase insurance for scheduled oil and filter changes on your car. Disaster is of course variable depending on individual families' income. Government could assist in defining "disaster".
Unfortunately, governments are neither good Doctors or buisnessmen and introduce yet another element or bureaucracy into the cost structure. I understand that it is hard to concieve until you have experienced it, but England's shortage of competent Physicans, nurses, and facilities is much worse than here in the U.S.. Thus, I feel compelled to at least alert people that they are probably going to be disappointed if we follow their example.
I understand your differentiation between Medical services and Health care. The English people in general have a more healthy lifestyle than we do. Their diet is better and they are more active. This is part of their value systems and red meat costs so much there that most people cannot afford it. Having said that reminds me there are exceptions to this observation. Some tend to use horrendous amounts of salt, smoke, and drink to excess. Government could help in changing our values.
I agree with your last statement.-
Posted By: C. MacLean @ 11/14/2008 2:29:23 PM
2gofer - thanks for the intelligent and polite discussion; so many of these blogs deteriorate into name calling that is both unhelpful and unnecessary.
The insurance industry has a term for your concept of disaster insurance, called catastrophic insurance. The average catastropic plan includes affordable co-pays for outpatient doctor visits, affordable co-insurance for basic diagnostic labs and xrays, copays for prescriptions, a set copay for a visit to the emergency room, etc. They usually include a hefty deductible - say $5000 - of any inpatient stay, and some for elective surgery as well, and after that they pay anywhere from 70-90% of costs.
It isn't great coverage, but it's something, and it allows people to see a health care provider for routine checkups, sore throats, sprained ankles, etc. and get maintainence medications if needed for chronic conditions. I pay $110/month for my son for just such a policy while he finishes school - because he is young, male and healthy, the cost is affordable.
Unfortunately, in the current system, women, older folks, and folks with chronic health conditions, even benign ones, cannot afford catastrophic policies - the same policy for me would cost $2500/month, or more. The government could change that, and all would benefit.
I'm not necessarily proposing we copy the British system verbatim, but I am suggesting it isn't enough to change the WAY we pay for care, we also need to change what we pay FOR. Government could do a much better job focusing our finite health care dollar on prevention, instead of care after-the-fact, and they could do a much better job of focusing care in the work place, schools and homes (the cheapest places) instead of only allowing care to be paid for in offices, clinics and hospitals and especially emergency rooms (the most expensive places). These are some of the things about the British system we could emulate. And there shouldn't be for-profit companies because they don't focus on health - they focus on profit.
Also - thanks for the clarification of cost vs. price - I hadn't realized there was more to it than semantics; they don't talk about financing the health care system in nursing school, although clearly they need to.-
Posted By: 2gofer @ 11/14/2008 3:26:25 PM
I like your ideas better than mine. You are probably aware that Obama has opened up a web site that provides the option of emailing your ideas. The next to last paragraph is especially worth considering.
Cheerio. (Theres a lot to like about the English).
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Posted By: Blackcourt79 @ 11/14/2008 2:56:33 PM
I heard that Obama is going to be feeding the masses at his inaugeration from four loaves of bread and five fish and he will be resurrecting our economy from the dead.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 3:05:24 PM
Are you ever going to stop whining? The election was 10 days ago.
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Posted By: Blackcourt79 @ 11/14/2008 3:13:52 PM
Whining? I didn't realize that poking fun at someone who has two articles on the same news publications website labeled "Barack the Savior" was whining. Guess your understanding of the english language is as deluded as your political knowledge.
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Posted By: Blackcourt79 @ 11/14/2008 2:33:22 PM
I think that the point of this article should be that when corruption is allowed to become business as usual any economy is going to suffer. It could be socialism or capitalism... doesn't matter.
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Posted By: SeaHabit49 @ 11/14/2008 2:32:21 PM
Doc Howl, I'm not a Republican, I didn't vote for McCain.
C. McClean: Right you are about spending it on productive investments like healthcare and infrastructure. Thats what we did in 1946 and the post war boom and raising of standards of living were the result.
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Posted By: SeaHabit49 @ 11/14/2008 2:28:30 PM
Doc Howl, I'm not a Republican and didn't vote for McCain. FDR was the last president to do what I am telling you we should do (and Democrats from Truman to LBJ carried somewhat the same fiscal policies). Republican's have been, HISTORICALLY, deficit hawks and Democrats the spenders. We need to spend on productive things (healtcare, infrastructure, education etc) now to get out of our situation. I'm saying that the deficit is not high by historical standards so don't let that stop people from putting pressure on congress and the new administration to do those things.
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Posted By: OhioE @ 11/13/2008 5:51:16 PM
Obama wants socialism not capitalism so why would he even try?
Christians are not fanatics! Read your ancient history. When a country loses it religious values it falls-
Posted By: LivnNSanDiego @ 11/13/2008 5:59:08 PM
Yah - great example - ancient history study of religion... I would venture to say and I would be extremely impressed if I could be proven wrong - that religion itself is a major contributor to most wars over the last 2000 years. I certainly believe more wars have been fought over religion in some manner than lack there of. To say Christianity is not leading the way in brutality and contradictions is calling the rest of us rather blind. All religions are responsible. My faith makes no difference in my common sense. Common sense is a large part of why the greed of a few became so potent. Perhaps if we spent a little more time in college learning basic finance and a little less time in curch the situaiton would have never risen. Or at least an even balance of the 2. Your faith will not save you when you walk in front of a bus. I call that reality.
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Posted By: zig @ 11/13/2008 6:35:05 PM
Yea your right the cival war, WW1WW!! the korean war, vietnam war Mexican American war were all caused by Religion. News to me but I'll listen to your reasoning Kindest Regard Joe
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 2:25:36 PM
Those are "most wars"? Imagine that...the whole rest of the world was at peace, all that time.
LOL.
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Posted By: Romero @ 11/14/2008 12:47:03 AM
If you are a Christian, I highly recommend you read, IS GOD ON AMERICA'S SIDE? by Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer senior pastor of Moddy Church in Chicago since 1980. I think you will be enlightened as to what our position as christians should be in this world. The book is good food for thought.
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Posted By: Sane in Utah @ 11/13/2008 7:00:34 PM
Yo, craigdev, did you know that FDR actually saved capitalism and this country? You Republicans may want to read your history.
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Posted By: galt727 @ 11/13/2008 8:52:56 PM
FDR did not save capitalism...WWII did. Check your history.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 2:23:52 PM
WWII saved America and capitalism from 1932-1941?
Amazing. How did it travel backward in time like that?
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Posted By: hmoo11 @ 11/13/2008 11:14:27 PM
I think Obama should tell all of you Rush fans to go to hell and take a 7 figure job at a major law firm. Then you can talk to Rush and get him to run for president in a special election.
Don't worry, he wouldn't run. He has a good thing making millions ranting on the radio. What stupid sheep.-
Posted By: noneyas @ 11/13/2008 11:41:31 PM
hmoo11 - When's the last time you listened to Rush? I don't listen daily but I do on occasion listen to Rush. Probably 95% of what he says either comes true or was true when he said it. However, just because people listen to him does not mean we believe everything heard. Most listeners of Rush realize that just like the liberal agenda of 99% of the media out there, Rush also has an agenda. Rush is extremely intelligent and accurate most of the time. People make such a big deal out of Rush when the truth is, Rush is one of the few true conservatives left in the media. People should appreciate the fact that more than one side gets represented at all whether you agree or disagree with what he says.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 2:19:49 PM
"When's the last time you listened to Rush? I don't listen daily but I do on occasion listen to Rush."
Your credibility = 0. Have a nice day,.
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/13/2008 11:27:14 PM
YOU MUST DO CRACK LIKE ODUMA! IF THERE WEREN'T SO MANY IGNORANT PEOPLE IN THE US, HE WOULD NOT HAVE WON. THAT'S THE SAD TRUTH!
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 9:21:15 AM
That's a great way to talk about the electorate you'll be looking for in 2012.
Keep it up. -
Posted By: onemind @ 11/13/2008 11:32:52 PM
Sunshine1957, that is what most people in the US and the world are saying about Bush having been elected. We need to work together to get our country out of this mess otherwise this country will go the way of fallen empires in the past.
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/14/2008 11:05:10 AM
Hey guys, I???m signing off because for some time now, I???ve come to the realization that Newsweek is not a good magazine. We even cancelled our 2 year subscription. The reason why I would sign in and leave comments on their website is because the magazine is SO BIAS that someone has to step in and say something. But I???ve realized that this is not healthy and God is in control.
I???ll leave you all to bicker amongst yourselves. Don???t waste too much time on your computers and/or this website. Find something positive to do??? Get a JOB if necessary.
May God Bless you all and this wonderful country we live in.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 12:20:23 PM
"Hey guys, I???m signing off because for some time now, I???ve come to the realization that Newsweek is not a good magazine."
Bye.-
Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/14/2008 1:39:30 PM
Misnomer Sunshine, you continually demonstrate that you're not going to go away. We must resign ourselve to your hysterical paranoia that somehow the media duped us all into rejection of your candidate and your party, and that you must compulsively spew the uninformed angst within you.
You complain about others at this site while you relentlessly spew and display your neroses for all to see.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 2:18:20 PM
"Misnomer Sunshine, you continually demonstrate that you're not going to go away."
How can we miss her if she won't leave?
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/13/2008 9:47:44 PM
Savior - he is a druggu :) he's not my president by far...
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Posted By: kieff @ 11/13/2008 9:51:07 PM
Move, then...
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/13/2008 10:13:56 PM
Hell no. This is my country and this country does not deserve and idoit like ODUMA!!!!
It is bizarre to me to see how Obama brainwashed so many people. Stop hitting on Sarah, at least she doesn???t have the radical back ground that idiot Obama has. I would not allow him or his radical family in my home. HE IS A LIAR, and people like yourself, who seem to have limited education, can be brainwashed easily. The media, like CBS, ABC, NBC ??? all ganged up on McCain and Palin. Had the Media not done that and if Obama had not accepted all that money from who knows where (middle eastern???), and had the homeless not voted for him, thanks to Acorn and if Acron had not gotten all those fake voters???. Oh, one more??? if the % of blacks (99.9%) who voted for him because ???he???s a black man??? ??? ODUMA WOULD HAVE LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .
THAT???S A FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-
Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/14/2008 2:18:04 PM
You are one of the prominent examples of the effects of the brainwashing of those anonymous emails, Fox "News", and drug dependants like Rush. -
Posted By: Romero @ 11/14/2008 12:34:37 AM
MY! My! comrade you are really angry today. What will be, will be, you and I are just a speck in the full scheme of things! lol You and I will never be multi-millioniers in our life time. That is left to the most greedy among us.
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Posted By: broman @ 11/13/2008 11:51:30 PM
nor does it deserve an IDIOT like you!
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Posted By: Stevevv @ 11/13/2008 10:01:43 PM
DO YOUR HISTORY DING DONGS, SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK.
You Obama lovers are humorous, you fall head over heels for someone simply because they can speak well and they say HOPE and CHANGE over and over again. Never mind all the other FACTS about him that you choose to ignore, I won't bother listing them because you've already ignored them for months now.-
Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/14/2008 2:14:59 PM
"SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK." Then why is Bush socializint the financial institutions? -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 9:28:32 AM
" DO YOUR HISTORY DING DONGS, SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK."
Someone had better tell Canada then...they've been socialist since 1867, and their economy is in better shape than ours is. -
Posted By: ginamlaster @ 11/14/2008 4:22:06 AM
Public schools are a form of socialism. Without them, only people who could afford private school would get an education. Brazil tried that and ended up with a nation full of people who are desperately poor and they can't read or write, which makes it incredibly difficult for them to better themselves.
Are you basing your fear of Socialism on some kind of verifiable data, or just the fact that it's an "ism" that isn't Capitalism? There is no pure form of government. For a government to work even moderately well, you have to sometimes borrow concepts that work, even if they generally go against your ideology. That's why Russia and China are now players in the Capitalist marketplace. They learned the hard way that pure Communism simply does not work, and we have just learned from our failed free-market experiment that pure Capitalism doesn't work either. Pure Communism results in the enslavement of one's own citizens. Pure Capitalism results in rampant unchecked greed that ultimately breaks the back of the nation's economy.
Public schools are just one example of how borrowing a successful concept from a conflicting form of government can actually make your own form of government work more efficiently.
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Posted By: bdinterm @ 11/13/2008 11:44:58 PM
Bull! Absolute garbage! The 'healthy dose of socialism' that Roosevelt used pushed us into a deeper pit--the economy hit its deepest valley yet in 1937, well after Roosevelt took office. Socialism can not--NOT, NOT, NOT--save capitalism! You should be tarred and feathered for saying such rediculous things under the guise of economic wisdom!
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Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/14/2008 1:54:02 PM
Tell me about the socialism of capitalism Bush is now instituting to save the big money institutions he allowed to loot and destroy the economy. -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 9:20:12 AM
You make Baby Jesus cry, when you lie like that.
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Posted By: HavanaBaddog @ 11/14/2008 8:21:30 AM
Expecting Barrak "the savior" Obama, who was elected on a promise of change and has so far delivered by committing to appointing large numbers of ex-Clinton appointees to his administration, to save capitalism is like expecting Prime Minister Pelosi to run a bi-partisan House. Save capitalism? Give me a break. We're talking about a government that, after taking over the business, failed to keep the Bunny Ranch afloat. A government that can't keep a whore house and bar from going under is not capable of "saving" capitalism.
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Posted By: 40YearR @ 11/14/2008 1:44:39 PM
What's to save of capitalism when the R administration allowed "the capitalists' to loot this country, and now Bush has socialized it? -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 9:12:47 AM
Wait. So Clinton was a communist? I'm not sure I understand your point.
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Posted By: damitajo1 @ 11/14/2008 5:47:28 AM
if he would tell people to donate to wall st. rather than his campaign -- then maybe!
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 12:25:45 PM
Why should anyone donate to Wall Street?
And what campaign? He won. It's over.
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/13/2008 6:22:48 PM
NEWSWEEK - This has got to be the stupidest article written. Michael Hirst, you should be fired! Newsweek is going under!!! because of idoits like you.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 12:23:56 PM
Newsweek is doing just fine.
Why do you constantly lie?
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Posted By: Sunshine1957 @ 11/13/2008 11:32:51 PM
ODUMA IS EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/14/2008 12:22:10 PM
Put the pipe down.
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Posted By: onemind @ 11/13/2008 11:36:37 PM
Brilliant statement Dumbshine. Glad you weren't running for President of the United States
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