Obama the antichrist?
you F*&^*( kidding me! Obama is liked over any candidate in history but yet just because hes black he now suddenly the antichrist. Republicans..... get over it you lost, best thing you can do is shut your lips and try to get this economy back together because thanks to our friend Mr. Antichrist Bush, its in shambles. So get over your loss and hop on board with the rest of the damn country
Is Obama the Antichrist?
Member Comments
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Posted By: kr3w101 @ 12/17/2008 11:16:43 AM
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Posted By: bobinthemorning @ 12/16/2008 1:54:19 PM
Heres a good example of the devil in action if only this event could of been seen by our own eyes or recreated.
http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=10074
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Posted By: Dan Pavsek @ 12/07/2008 7:13:37 PM
The first amendment guarantees Free Speach - and I support that. But it certainly doesn't protect us from stupidity. These people are out to make money by pandering to the fears/predjucices of ignorant people.
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Posted By: isadasweete @ 12/05/2008 10:03:21 PM
Hahaha!!!!!! Bush the Anti-christ??!! Hahaha! Yeah right!! The Anti-christ is to be loved and adored by many. AND have followers. Who's following him.........?? He's stepping DOWN from Presidency and another is to take his place which already the WORLD already loves him...... So it's really not rocket science to figure out why so many people think that Obama is the Anti-christ.
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Posted By: Qidisrupt @ 12/05/2008 5:22:56 PM
1John4:1-3 informs us about the simple test to see who is for Christ or who is anti-Christ...in the scripture of the aforementioned text, the Bible clearly states, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God." As we can see from this passage os scripture, it is not rocket science and very simple to tell who is for Christ and who is not for Him.
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Posted By: J.Richter @ 12/04/2008 1:35:52 PM
These folks do not read their bible. The AntiChrist and his army will gather against Israel. How in the world is Obama going to get the US army or congress to accomplish that? By selecting Rahm Emmanual as Chief of Staff? Or Clinton as Sec. of State?
The problem is folks are not reading their bible with any spiritual insight. The antichrist is in the hearts of men.
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Posted By: Rocky2001 @ 12/02/2008 12:26:20 PM
Great Article Lisa!!
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Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/02/2008 1:55:49 AM
TO MILLER: THIS ARTICLE BELONGS IN THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER. THAT MAGAZINES WRITES NON-SENSE SO PEOPLE WILL READ THEIR ARTICLES. CAN YOU SEE THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE ENQUIERERS STRATEGY AND YOURS MRS. MILLER. HE APPOINTED HILLARY SECRETARY OF STATE THAT SHOULD CALM YOU DOWWN. AND MOTIVATE YOU TO RIGHT A NEWSWEEK CALIBER ARTICLE.
"OBAMA "HAS HIS DREAM TEAM""(eddiewhere 2008).. I am surprise that no one has used this term. I am sure I will hear it tomorrow. OBAMA HAS SELECTED HIS DREAM TEAM. THIS TEAM HAS ALL STAR CREDENTIALS. EACH OF THEM ARE HALL OF FAMERS. HILLARY, GATES, RAHM.
HOPEFULLY, THIS DREAM TEAM WILL KEEP THEIR EYES ON THE REAL THREAT RUSSIA AND CHINA. These two countries have already launched a very successful CYBER WAR against AMERICA. They are able to spy on our networks and steal our technological secrets and our patented software.
RUSSIA, INDIA AND CHINA ARE THE SUPERPOWERS OF THAT SIDE OF THE WORLD. They are the key to a multinational strategy. Managing these realtionships is like walking a tight rope(eddiewhere 2008). China and India are always at odds and have a delicate relationship to say the least. I know ZaKaria wrote an article on this relationship six months ago. He needs to write another one.
Another situation that needs to be monitored closely is ORGANIZED CRIME IN EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, ESPECIALLY when it comes to cyber crime and nuclear weapons. These Eastern European countries are a potential conduit for passing NUKES to terrorists.
These Terrorists will be based in the Five MUSLIM breakaway REpublics in Central ASIA( Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistanan) . They can potentially form an alliance with China, who has a long history of strained relationships with INDIA. To the MUslims India is an enemy and a traitor. Remeber how Hitler rose to power, a depressed economy in EUROPE. THESE REPUBLICS in Central Asia have all the same elements.. Russia and CHina will form an alliance based on their mutual FRICTION with INDIA(WHO IS CHALLENGING TO BE THEY PREMIER SUPERPOWER IN ASIA).
THE ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE 5 MUSLIM STATES IN CENTRAL , AND CHINA IS A Big Threat.
"OBAMA IS NOW THE WORLD"S FIRST PRESIDENT" eddiwhere 2008.. CAN HE SUCCESSFULLY MANAGE RELATIONSHIPS WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA INORDER TO PREVENT THESE FIVE MUSLIM REPUBLICS FROM SLIPPING DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO ECONOMIC DEPRESSION.
OBAMA IS LIKE THE COACH OF THE DREAM TEAM(BASKETBALL) TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT HE HAS A PLAN TO MAKE JORDON, BIRD AND MAGIC WORK TOGETHER AS ONE FORCE TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL. OR LEBRON, KOBY AND PAUL PIERCE. I AM SURE HE CAN AND WILL DO JUST FINE AND AMERICA WILL SOON BE THE ENVY OF THE WORLD AGAIN.
OBAMA HAS HIS DREAM TEAM AND ALL THE TOOLS FOR A MUCH NEEDED GLOBAL STRATEGY.
P.S. REMEMBER BARAK YOUR BLACKBERRY HAS ALREADY BEEN HACKED.
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Posted By: panda69 @ 11/30/2008 6:02:30 PM
I support the Belief Watch column in general and this column by Lisa Miller in particular. This morning Chris Matthews said that at the time of the Presidential election, 14% of Americans believed Obama was a Muslim. I find this widespread ignorance alarming. The good news is we have a democracy. The bad news is the liars and the ignorant have votes that count equally with everyone else.
I am disappointed with the people writing here to say they want Newsweek to *not* report this kind of widespread ignorance. You are sticking your heads in the sand. Our democracy needs this kind of reporting on what various people really think.
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Posted By: Hereigns @ 11/28/2008 7:53:56 PM
Is Obama the Antichrist?
In these days many are asking, what does the Bible say about the Antichrist, the Man of Lawlessness, and the Beast. Should we be concerned about any individual currently ascending to power on the world stage? Although my book Final Warning goes into much greater detail about the characteristics of the evil one, let it suffice that all Christians must be aware that one is coming who is beginning to fit this profile.
Beware of the one who comes as a type of messiah promising to save the world from its present crisis by speaking half truths and outrageous lies; one who promises world wide peace by sitting down with your enemies. Beware of the one, who promises universal health care for the whole person (both physical and psychological) with its hidden agenda of leading you to trust in psychology instead of trusting in God exclusively, which is idolatry. Furthermore, this allows the evil one and his established order to control your life. This control is precipitated by electronic record keeping and preventative health requirements that will mandate physical and psychological care if you wish to keep your benefits. Be wary of the one who voted for the bailout bill that gives government more involvement in the private sector and definitive control over millions of home loans. Tucked into this bill is a mental health provision that will ultimately give companies power over their employees by requiring that they get psychological counseling and drugs to improve their productivity. Be very careful of the one who promises to bring change to those living in the midst of fallen Babylon through his own strength and intellect.
Christian don???t be deceived, because Obama easily fits this profile. He is espousing a political rebellion against the so called established order and leading God???s children in open rebellion against Him. He does this by leading the world to put their trust in him or his new world religion to solve all their problems and meet their needs instead of trusting in God alone and His providential care. Obama openly nullifies the law of God by sanctioning same sex relationships and partial birth abortion ??? deserving the title ???Man of Lawlessness.??? Christian don???t be dismayed that the Republican party lost the election. Indeed it was easy to be fooled by the Republican Party and the audacity of talk radio claiming to be on the side of Christianity by rejecting homosexual unions and the freedom of choice. Clearly they only courted the Christian vote to further their own evil agenda of excessive greed and lust for power. Stop trusting in Obama or the Republican Party to bring about change. Real change is only possible through the transforming power of the Gospel which brings true healing to the whole man and his community.
Rev. Daniel W. Blair - www.revelation-truth.org-
Posted By: LibertarianForObama @ 11/30/2008 10:20:23 AM
" with its hidden agenda of leading you to trust in psychology instead of trusting in God exclusively, which is idolatry."
So psychology is idolatry, eh? This sentiment reeks of Scientology. So do tel lof this "change" you're advovating; will it be Pat Bucannon , Robertson? Please name the backwoods, fundy nutjob would you endorse as president?
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Posted By: sirhc @ 11/29/2008 1:58:12 PM
HILARIOUS. OBAMA MAYBE THE ANTI-CHRIST BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE LIKE HIM? BUT AS SOON AS BUSH STEPPED INTO OFFICE-
9/11, THE IRAQ WAR, HURRICANE KATRINA, 100,000 LOSS JOBS A MONTH, HORRIFIC FORECLOSURE RATE, ECONOMIC COLLAPSE AND MORE DEADLY STORMS THAN EVER BEFORE......................IS THERE SOMEONE WORSE THAN THE ANTI-CHRIST?
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Posted By: Betsey Trotwood @ 11/29/2008 10:58:00 AM
I am glad to be a non-evangelical Christian. Lutherans believe the words of Jesus, who said no one would know the hour of his return. He did NOT say to consult a rapture index. What human presumption! I suppose that index, had it been around, would have been off the chart in 1939, and look what came of that. Lisa Miller and Newsweek are imprudent to give this ignorant bunch any undeserved credibility.
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Posted By: davejohn @ 11/19/2008 10:23:40 AM
Mock the faith? either way, it's good to see Jesus preached. I don't believe that any serious Bible scholar believes that the Mark of The Beast pertains to a lottery number or anything else so silly. As to what it means? who knows? I personally believe that to those it it written to...at that time, it will be readily apparent as to what it means. If the author who wrote this article is serious, and isn't just attempting to poke fun, she'd find that there are so many prophecies already fulfilled, including the return of the Jew to Israel that point to the immanency of the return of Jesus Christ. Sad thing is though, many sources like this always seek out liberal, non believers who have crept in the church. I'd love to see her and Newsweek pursue it from the eye of a true believer. As far as Obama, I agree, he raises many flags! A man who claims to be a Christian but denies almost all the simple truths of Jesus Christ including that Jesus is the path to God is troubling at least. The way people have slobbered all over this man as well raises eye brows. The fact that so many have called him names that are reserved for God, Messiah, The One etc etc but he has never protested that shows me he have no fear of God as well. Oh, there's a lot of concern among Christians as to who and what Barack Obama is all about. While most don't believe he is the Antichrist, we sure don't believe he's a gift from God either!
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Posted By: epryor @ 11/19/2008 10:54:09 AM
The return of the Jews in 1948 fulfilled no prophesy:
The prophet Isaiah said: The Lord shall regather Israel a second time. (Isaiah 11). Evangelicals claim that the ???second time??? of the return of the Jews was fulfilled in the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. But the ???second time??? already took place 500 years before Christ
The 1st Return Of The Jews: The Jews were living as exiles in Egypt when Moses brought the 12 tribes back to the land of Canaan in 1445 BC.
The 2nd Return Of The Jews: The Jews were living as exiles throughout the vast Babylonian Empire which Isaiah perceived as the four corners of the world when Ezra brought only 3 tribes back to the land of Israel in 536 BC. These were the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The other tribes were lost forever. Just prior to 70 AD, Herod destroyed the remaining tribal records, especially those of Levi, the priestly tribe.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/19/2008 1:16:51 PM
Let me correct you on the first and the second return of the Jews. The people living in Egypt and brought out by Moses wasn???t even called Jews. Judaism wasn???t even established until after Moses receive the law from God. When the Hebrews left Egypt, they left as Tribes. When they camped at Mt. Sinai, they camped as Tribes. When they entered and settled the Land of Israel (approx. 1300 BCE), they settled as Tribes.
Re-read Isaiah 10:20-22 and it will let you know that God said a remnant of Israel (meaning all the tribes and not just 3) as you claim. And if you are going to claim something at least back it up with scriptures.-
Posted By: epryor @ 11/19/2008 1:39:40 PM
So untrue. One of the tribes was Judah, the Jews. I should have called them Isrealites instead of Jews though. The Assyrians scattered all but 2 or 3 of the tribes of Isreal. After the Babylonians conquered the Assyrians, the Babylonians let the remaining tribes return to Judah, where Ezra re-established the covenant with G-d and the first 5 books of the Bible.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/20/2008 4:29:20 PM
It's funny how you only go to what you call the second return and don't address the first in which I showed you your error. Since they never was in the land how can they return with Moses? So now you harp on the so-called second when you haven't even established the first!
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Posted By: epryor @ 11/20/2008 10:22:51 PM
Didn't the the forefathers of the Israeites--Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Jacobs 12 sons were the chidren of Israel) live in Canaan, before they were taken into captivity by Egypt? Then Moses returned them to Canaan. Canaan is modern day Israel.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/25/2008 1:05:23 PM
That is your problem just because someone lived in the land/region doesn't mean that it was there land. Canaan is described in many different ways and doesn't mean that it is modern day Israel. Egyptians control Canaan and had different territories that aren't in the region of Israel. God gave them land after Moses took them out of Egypt and not before. So there was never a leaving of the land until they acquired it in the first place. I say again this didn't happen until Moses or should I say Joshua took them into the promise land and began to conquer it but not driving all the inhabitants out.
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Posted By: epryor @ 11/26/2008 2:41:29 PM
G-d promises the land of Canaan to Jacob and then later Moses:
On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt (the Wadi el Arish) to the great river, the River Euphrates" Gen 15.18
(God told Isaac...) "Dwell in this land (Canaan), and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father." Gen 26.3
(God told Jacob...) "I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. Gen 28.13b
And the Lord said (to Moses): "I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows. So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 3:49:04 PM
You are missing the point... God promise them the land but the promise wasn't fulfilled until after they went in to possess the land that was currently being possess by others in which you mention their names. The people of God put these people out of the land in whcih God promise for them, not the other way around.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/19/2008 1:17:35 PM
First Jewish Diaspora
Nebuchadnezzar captured the land of Israel in 586 B.C., and he carried all of Israel off to Babylon.
Cyrus, King of Persia, signed the release of Israel in c. 536 B.C. giving the Jews the right to go home.
Second Jewish Diaspora
Hadrian, Emperor of Rome, ordered all the Jews out of the land of Israel or be killed in A.D. 135. (Hadrian also changed the name of Jerusalem to Capitolina.)
The United Nations voted to make Israel a nation in a day, May 14, 1948. This was another fulfillment of Isaiah???s prophecy in verse 8 of chapter 66. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? Isaiah 66:8.
In summary, Israel is back in the land a second time and will never be pulled up from the land again.
???Behold, the days are coming,??? says the Lord, ???When the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; the mountains shall drip with sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it. I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; they shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; they shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. I will plant them in their land, and no longer shall they be pulled up from the land I have given them,??? says the Lord your God. Amos 9:13-15. This prophecy is being fulfilled today. I believe that we are in the end times.
http://www.darrellgenzlinger.com/Page13JRSTdws.html -
Posted By: noway_2 @ 11/19/2008 11:16:23 AM
So, read alot do ya? Watch History channel at all?
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Posted By: epryor @ 11/19/2008 11:52:09 AM
Yes, I love the history channel and have seen all their documentaries about the Bible. For a long time i was an unquestioning Christian and then one day I decided to do research on the book I was following. To my dismay, I found that almost everything i learned and was led to believe was probably not true. The books of Moses were not written by Moses?!!!, The gospels were written 80-200 years after the death of Jeses?!!! There are 2 conflicting versions of the Flood, 2 versions of the Creation and more (called doublets)?!!! Even on philisophical grounds there are SO many questions. If you really read the Bible, you will find brutality, you will find G-d advocating killing of the innocent and suckling babies. Do you know what happened to the Isrealites after Moses returned from Mt. Sinai and found them worshiping idols? Do you know what happened to people who cheated on their spouses? This is in direct conflict with the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus. You could write a volume of books on the subject. I have found that at least some of the stuff there is based on facts, but it is very much man made and man inspired. It was written by peoples who did not have an understanding of the laws of nature. Ellipesy and Schizophrenia were misinterpreted as demonic possession. Floods and Lighning were misinterpreted as signs from G-d. Some of the biblical stories were even borrowed from other ancient religions and peoples, such as the Great Flood story, borrowed from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
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Posted By: epryor @ 11/19/2008 10:55:54 AM
I don't know why, but questionmarks have been added to my comment.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/19/2008 11:05:53 AM
Question marks always occur when you use comma's and any other hypens
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Posted By: MomHon @ 11/19/2008 11:27:08 AM
Don't you dare presume to speak for all Christians!! Barack is the most Godly man we've had in public life for a long time. He truly acts as Jesus asks us to act, with concern for our brothers and sisters, with care for the least among us. Almost everyone I know that supports Barack is a Christian - also Jews, Quakers, Unitarians, atheists, LOTS of Catholics (I know "Christians" like you don't think Catholics are Christians) - and we are so grateful and happy that he is our President-elect! The only "flags" he raises, you twit, are those of victory over the forces of evil, over small-minded hatred and bigotry, and flags of peace and brotherhood. Those of us who live in the thinking, caring world - and yes, a lot of us are Christian, you and your ilk aside - aren't afraid of Barack, we're afraid of YOU.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/19/2008 1:54:13 PM
When Barack denied that people are going to burn in hell or that there was a hell and when he denied that he believe that Jesus was the only way to heaven, He (Barack) called Jesus a liar! So how is it that you being a Christian say that he is acting like Christ by denying what Christ said and preached about?
2Cor.11
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.-
Posted By: epryor @ 11/19/2008 2:30:38 PM
Do you think Jesus established a place of eternal hellfire and brimstone for someone to burn forever? Does not sound very Christian. The Isrealites did not believe in Hell until they encountered the Greeks. If you look at Greek mythology, the compartments of Hell are the same. Hell is actually a mistranslation. Everywhere that the bible says Hell, it is translated from Sheol, which was a place of the dead, both good and evil. Hell is also translated from Ghenna, a trash dump where trash was burned. Translators turned these words(sheol and Ghenna) into Hell. There are people who have never heard the name Jesus and died. What happens to them? It is very reasonable to believe there is no Hell.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/24/2008 4:52:08 PM
Deut.32
[22] For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Matt.10
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt.11
[21] Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
[22] But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
[23] And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
[24] But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matt.23
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?-
Posted By: epryor @ 11/25/2008 10:27:15 AM
My point is not that "Hell" is not in the Bible. Before the Hebrews encountered the Greeks, there was no Hell. They refered to "Sheol" as the underworld, which was a place that saint and sinner alike went after death. When the Bible was translated from Hebrew to Greek, the translators did not have a word for "Sheol". Instead they used the word "Hades" the Greek underworld. The Greek underworld had 3 compartments- one for Hades the God of the Underworld, one for the evil and one for good people. The Greek underworld then became the Hebrew underworld. Translators also translated "Ghenna" a burning trash dump into "Hell". Hades became Hell and that is how Hell as a place of damnation came into being. By the New Testament, Hell as a place of damnation and fire was accepted.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/25/2008 1:03:53 PM
Your point I was responding to was this..."Do you think Jesus established a place of eternal hellfire and brimstone for someone to burn forever? Does not sound very Christian."
This is why I posted Scriptures to show you that Jesus does believe in eternal punishment and He sound very Christlike to me ...especially since He is the Christ! .. so my point is that you should know what Christ sounds like before you tell others what does or doesn't sound very Christian to you!.... Selah!
Also it really doesn't matter what the Jews believe or anyone as a matter of fact. What is important is what Jesus/God believes.... Hades/Sheol/Hell is just a holding place.... the real concern should be the destination of these places.... The Lake of Fire!.....Selah!-
Posted By: epryor @ 11/25/2008 3:48:25 PM
It does matter because christianity came from jewish faith. All their beliefs, should be christian beliefs as well. Jews do not believe in Hell, because by definition, Hell is the place for the ETERNAL punishment of the soul, in the next life, for the sins committed in this life. Although Judaism certainly believes in a punishment in the next life for the sins committed in this life, Jews do not believe in Hell because they believe G-d to be forgiving, compassionate, and merciful. So, the idea of an ETERNAL punishment makes G-d look Cruel, and prevents them from believing in a hell.
If you believe the New testament to be valid, then you have to accept the fact that the Jews did not believe in Hell and that Christians should not either. The Bible does mention hell, but it is mostly mistranslations of Sheol and Ghenna.
Does the punishment justify the crime? There are plenty of good people, generous people, who live by christian values, although they are not christian. That does not even include people who have died and not even heard the name of Jesus.
I guess we are looking at the Bible in 2 different ways. I see it as man made and flawed. I think that although Jesus referred to Hell, I believe that to be either of Greek influence or mistranslations. You probably see the Bible as literally true and perfect. In that case we will never agree on this subject. I do apologize for being so adversarial though.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 3:31:26 PM
The foundation of Christian beliefs come from Judaism.... you are right in saying this... but even Jews disagree during the time of Jesus... Pharisees and the Saducees disagree to the point the Paul use this against them to create a diversion to escape their persecution. But we are talking about those who miss the coming of their Messaih and now you say that I should believe as they believe. No everyone should rightfully divide the word of God and go by that alone....
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 1:52:25 PM
The Hebrew word abaddon is often translated from Hebrew into English as the word destruction.
The following two definitions are from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary:
\A*bad"don\ ([.a]*b[a^]d"d[u^]n), n. [Heb. [=a]badd[=o]n destruction, abyss, fr. [=a]bad to be lost, to perish.]
1. The destroyer, or angel of the bottomless pit; -- the same as Apollyon and Asmodeus.
2. Hell; the bottomless pit. [Poetic]
Smith's Bible Dictionary defines Abaddon as follows:
ABADDON, "the angel of the bottomless pit." From the occurrence of the word in (Psalms 88:11) the rabbis have made Abaddon the nethermost of the two regions into which they divide the lower world, but that in (Revelation 9:11) Abaddon is the angel and not the abyss is perfectly evident in the Greek.
The rabbis call the nethermost division of Sheol (deepest division or bottomless pit), Abaddon. Abaddon in the Old Testament is equivalent to Gehenna (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek) or Hell (English). The Abaddon (meaning - Destroyer) referred to in the Book of Revelation is the name of the fallen angel who is king of the demons who emerge from the bottomless pit.
The term Abaddon, although often translated into English as the word destruction, is a place of eternal torment and not a place of annihilation.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 1:53:34 PM
Isaiah 66:22-24 speaks of the everlasting Kingdom to come (the enduring new heavens and new earth) and of the eternal punishment of the wicked (their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched):
"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD , "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD ."And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 66:22-24 NIV
Job 31:12 - Amplified Version:
For [uncontrolled passion] is a fire which consumes to Abaddon (to destruction, ruin, and the place of final torment); [that fire once lighted would rage until all is consumed] and would burn to the root all my [life's] increase.
Proverbs 15:11
Death and Destruction [Hebrew [ Sheol and Abaddon ] ] lie open before the LORD - how much more the hearts of men!
Proverbs 27:20
Death and Destruction [Hebrew [ Sheol and Abaddon ] ] are never satisfied, and neither are the eyes of man.
Psalm 88:11
Will Your loving kindness be declared in the grave,
Your faithfulness in Abaddon? Psalm 88:11 NASB
Modern day Judaism, even the religion practiced by the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox, is rabbinical Judaism and not biblical Judaism. The following excerpt concerning the afterlife is from the web site ???Judaism 101??? (emphasis mine):
Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 1:58:24 PM
Many Jews today deny the existence of hell and Satan, yet there are many passages of Scripture in the Old Testament to support the literal existence of both hell and Satan.
Job 2:7
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.
Psalm 109:6
Appoint an evil man or [the Evil One]] to oppose him; let an accuser or [let Satan]] stand at his right hand.
Zechariah 3:1
Then he showed me Joshua ; the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD , and Satan [ accuser ] standing at his right side to accuse him.
Zechariah 3:2
The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
The Old Testament does speak of hell and the Devil although many Jewish people and even rabbis would deny the literal existence of either Satan or eternal torment. There are also a number of Christian cults which falsely teach that hell is a place of annihilation. In the New Testament we find 81 references to hell, devils or Satan. It is clear from the following passage from the Book of Daniel that both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised to experience eternity.
But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1b-2
Satan is a deceiver and a liar. It is one of his greatest deceptions to have people believe that he does not exist and that there is no place of eternal torment. Pray that the veil is removed from the hearts of the Jewish people. Pray that they may not only read the Word of God, but truly understand the Holy Scriptures and be brought to Godly repentance.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 11/28/2008 3:26:09 PM
When you say they are plenty of good people this begs the question, ???According to whose standard are you measuring their goodness???? Also, ???Why live by a value and not embrace the one who brought the value to you in the first place???? As for those who have died and not even heard the name of Jesus, I answered this already???..
Roman 2:11-16
[11] For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
[16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
We are looking at the bible in 2 different ways. I see it as inspired by God and inerrant. When one encounters what they deem discrepancies I would challenge them to not only read the bible but study the bible to get to the profound meaning of scriptures. Your statement about Jesus is full of contradictions in my eyes. If Jesus is whom he claimed to be then how can he have a influence on saying something that is wrong? His knowledge doesn???t come from the worldview of things. What does the living (natural) know about the spirit world (supernatural) unless they themselves have full knowledge of its existence. Jesus has this knowledge and is the Creator himself in the flesh and doesn???t need to be influence by Greek philosopy.
No need to apologize for your different viewpoint or stating your opinion strongly. It is not my intention to change your view point (this is up to the individual to establish within themselves) my point in posting is to demonstrate/voice/articulate/expound/confirm my views and why I believe them. This subjects me to attack or ridicule but it this doesn???t phase me if one is willing to do the same in explaining why my views aren???t logical in keeping with either facts or scriptures.
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Posted By: noway_2 @ 11/19/2008 11:17:55 AM
REALITY CHECK NEEDED HERE!!!!!!
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Posted By: philip1957 @ 11/28/2008 2:27:17 AM
suggesting that Obama MIGHT be the AntiChrist. If you're looking for the AntiChrist, you should look instead at some of these televangelists who preach things that contradict everything Christ supposedly stood for. Also, this is perhaps the most Orwellian use of the word "freedom." That is like bemoaning the fact that Bush doesn't have the "freedom" to imprison whomever he wants, whenever he wants.
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Posted By: philip1957 @ 11/28/2008 2:22:07 AM
"Obama's own use of religious rhetoric belies his liberal positions on abortion and traditional marriage, Staver says, positions that "religious conservatives believe will threaten their freedom." The people who believe Obama is the Antichrist are perhaps jumping to conclusions, but they're not nuts: "They are expressing a concern and a fear that is widely shared," Staver says. " Why is Newsweek printing this garbage? I can't believe you are suggestingsuggesting that
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Posted By: NPALLC @ 11/27/2008 11:58:07 PM
Jesus said, Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free- Listen, I'm a born again Christian; Stop the alarmist screams-that's insane, that president-elect Obama is somehow in correlation to the Anti-Christ. Just admit that there are unforunately "covert racism in the hearts and minds of some Christians". I were probably the lone member within my church family that voted for President-elect Obama: Now, there was heated moments leading up the the election Day, in that, all members were indiectly exposed to a scare tactic "that Barack Obama, would do more harm to the abortion rights movement(s) than dozens of pro lifer's could do in a century", too, scare Membership AND MAKE SURE THEY GET IT RIGHT - a Vote for Obama represent your departure from the "faith and church body". While, there hasn't been much said since the Election - I can percieve the indifference toward me. Anti-Christ Barack Obama, there is absolutely no bibilical truth one can offer to suggest this bald face untruth.
J.Walker,MCI
NPALLC
Washington, DC
Email: natlprotec@aol.com
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Posted By: Doawaywithdogma @ 11/27/2008 3:49:03 PM
Folks, 99 out of 100 scientist agree, there is no magic fairy in the sky. These are all stories of lore back in a time when they all slept on hay and thought the world was flat. It saddens me to think of all those fear-laced, brain-washed, religious minds that might actually posses the brain capacity to cure cancer, make cars run on sunshine, or even find a way to propel life forever forward -- actually. Instead they have given in to some archaic fable that has defined their existence and thus shut down their creative spirit. I give thanks to most of the founding fathers of this country who knew the perils of religion and made sure they had no place in our government. I can only hope the communist minds of the christian-right never fully worm their way into our system no matter how hard they try.
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Posted By: Doawaywithdogma @ 11/27/2008 3:36:07 PM
Uh, which is it -- the end days are coming because Obama is the Anti-Christ or if I carry out the word of Allah, I get to enjoy forty virgins in the after-life? How come I can't celebrate the Obama being the Anti-Chirst? After all, doesn't that mean I will get to be with Jesus in Heaven? Are there harps in heaven that are always in tune and grapes that are seedless? Are the streets really paved in gold? Gold is soft and would not make a good road ingrediant here on earth -- does God and Jesus make a metal mixture to harden the gold or do we float above the gold streets? If I want Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy to be my friends in heaven, will God and Jesus be jealous about me worshipping a few others that I thought were Gods before God told me I would burn in hell and my family would burn in hell if I worshipped any other Gods? Do you think he would be cool about it now? Should I celebrate my friend getting cancer because he is christian and now will be going to see the lord? Should I discourage him from wanting to have chemo because God is calling him home? Why is he trying to fight the cancer when he knows that by dying he will be able to look down on us from heaven? Signed, you have got to be kidding me.
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Posted By: hiparuu @ 11/27/2008 12:58:58 AM
OK. It seems I need not take newsweek seriously anymore.
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Posted By: Philly Joe C @ 11/26/2008 8:31:59 PM
In my brief lifetime the coming of the Antichrist has been associated with such world events as the formation of the Common Market (predecessor of the European Union) to the jiggling prancing of Mick Jagger as depicted in the song American Pie (fire is the devil???s only friend). However creative or absurd these readings of the times are, it is a sad testament to the state of so-called ???Christian America??? that its adherents spend so much of their time looking for the ultimate ???bad guy/evil doer??? rather than practicing the charity that Jesus holds as the ultimate criteria for surviving the ???Final Judgment??? and entering into the Kingdom of Heaven (Mt 25:31-46). In the twisted logic of some Millenialist Christians, doing good has become a sign of the Antichrist ??? especially if the person doing it is not a member of their camp and therefore incapable of authentic good. Jesus, who was himself accused of practicing charity by the power of Beelzebub (Mk 3:22), understood first hand the temptation to exclusivity by the religious authorities of his day. Jesus also had to deal with this same tendency rising up among his own disciples (Mk 9:38-40) who upon returning from their field trip, casting out demons and healing the sick, complain to Jesus, ???We saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.??? They were offended because they felt that they were the ???only ones??? allowed to be doing good in Jesus???s name. Jesus chastises them, ???Do not stop him???Anyone who is not against us is for us.??? There is a certain arrogance and narrowness in wanting to be the ???only ones??? called by Jesus to do his will on earth; it is the ultimate sin to attempt to limit the power and will of God to one???s own understanding of the Bible.
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