Perhaps I'll move to a new land and fight for freedom from an oppressive church state. Oh wait, I thought that already happened over 200 years ago.
I have no problem with people's beliefs and opinions. But there's a big difference between having our opinions, even preaching them, and denying civil rights to fellow American's! This doesn't have anything to do with your religious beliefs. It is very simply a civil rights issue.
ESSAY
How Getting Married Made Me An Activist
This NEWSWEEK editor's wedding has put him in the middle of the culture wars. Now, as he and his spouse wait to see if their marriage is valid, they wonder if history will be on their side.
Published Nov 15, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Nov 24, 2008
Member Comments
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Posted By: korrectionalkitten @ 12/12/2008 5:55:03 PM
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Posted By: Godfollower @ 12/10/2008 5:53:51 PM
THE WORDS OF GOD - PEOPLE - TIME TO WAKE UP!!
Leviticus 20:10 (Whole Chapter)
"`And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:11 (Whole Chapter)
And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness. Both of them shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:12 (Whole Chapter)
And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have wrought confusion: their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:13 (Whole Chapter)
"`If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:14 (Whole Chapter)
"`And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there be no wickedness among you.
Leviticus 20:15 (Whole Chapter)
"`And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death; and ye shall slay the beast. -
Posted By: Godfollower @ 12/10/2008 5:26:01 PM
1 Corinthians 6:9 (Whole Chapter)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous [Or wrongdoers] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: [1 Corinthians 15:50; Gal 5:21; Eph 5:5; 1 Tim 1:9; Heb 12:14; 13:4; Rev 21:8; 22:15] neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts] -
Posted By: Tara Ngu. @ 12/09/2008 7:23:41 PM
Sandra,
The reasons you listed in your comments were the very ones that gave me moral qualms about joining the nationwide protests up to the very morning of November 15. Even if I and millions of others didn't agree with it, the people of California had spoken with their vote, and there was very little we could do about it -- particularly since most of us (myself included) weren't even voting California residents. Besides, legal civil unions could grant many of the same basic rights as marriage. It sounded like a good compromise.
On the afternoon of November 15, as I marched from Capitol Hill to downtown with three thousand other shouting, spirited Seattleites, I noticed one sign that struck a chord with me:
"Being second-class is SO GAY. Thanks, California!"
The semantic and symbolic meaning of marriage is indeed a thorny issue, particularly when involving the religious definitions of marriage. From a civil and symbolic standpoint, however, telling gay couples to be satisfied with their commitment ceremonies is essentially telling them that they are not worthy of legal recognition as a married couple because they are a class set apart -- a lower class than normal, heterosexual people.
This doesn't sound anything like justice to me.
True, the passage of Proposition 8 does not declare that gay, lesbian, bi and transgendered people may not love each other and declare as much in court. But there should be no such thing as first-class, second-class, or any class in the land of equality. It is our duty as citizens to remind the legal system of what it's supposed to stand for. -
Posted By: sandra.lemings @ 12/09/2008 5:53:24 PM
The people have spoken. Accept it.
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Posted By: sandra.lemings @ 12/09/2008 5:49:54 PM
You pledged your devotion to each other in front of friends and family so be satisied. You don't need a marriage document to declare your love. No number of legal documents can make people believe or proceive you as a married couple. The passing of prop 8 doesn't care about you declaring your love, it is against renaming the meaning of marriage.
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Posted By: Megan140 @ 12/08/2008 5:34:16 PM
Thank you for this article.
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Posted By: Gbosa @ 12/01/2008 4:33:49 PM
This is not a religious battle, but rather a moral battle that the minority gay community lost, not only in California, but also in Florida and Arizona. The voters have spoken. But rather than accept the verdit, the gay community now wants to impose their minority view (a lifestyle of choice) upon the majority voters. Their is a flaunting spirit behind homosexual lifestyle and that is what is glaringly evident now. It is really a shame and a travesty that it is hard for them to swallow that the people have spoken.
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Posted By: NioSki @ 11/30/2008 5:53:45 PM
Gays of color, transgender, and yes, even lesbians are missing from the larger discourse of the gay rights struggle???primarily the gay marriage issue. The gay right's movement was and remains the "gay, white, middle class" movement! The diversity within the gay community seems to be reconciled to Pride Parades-- and AIDS advertisement. HOWEVER, it never seems to extend to national or cultural images of Gay America???like Advocate and Out magazine???the central offenders in this area! Why you ask? Because the myth and mystique of San Francisco has extended to a larger culture that gay is white and it???s male. Forget the black Drag queens who started fights during Stonewall... Gay is San Fran and Harvey Milk! But the white male paradigm controls the discourse, media, politics and consequently the image of Gay America. Before the gay community can discuss civil rights it needs to look at the power positions and paradigms of privilege within its own community and ask why they exist!?
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Posted By: 911SavesLives @ 11/29/2008 4:34:17 PM
On October 10, when my girlfriend and I were visiting Winnipeg, Canada, we were at a wedding rehearsal dinner with 4 straight married couples and the couple who were to be married that weekend. The conversation came around to same-sex marriage.
One guy asked this question that really opened my eyes: "What's with this 'justice and liberty for all' b.s. you Americans talk about?"
Another guy added, "Yeah. You talk about the need for the separation of church and state, and at the same time you complain about the Taliban in Afghanistan shoving their Islamic beliefs down people's throats. Yet the Religious Right owns your government." (I couldn't disagree too much with that.)
The day after the Presidential election, my longtime friend who got married wrote this in an email: "Congratulations to you guys for finally getting it right. But what's with the Prop. 8 deal? They give gay people the right to marry, then they take it away, then they give it back and then take it away again. When did "justice for all" become a football game? Come to Canada. We practice what we preach."
Again, I could not argue with the perception (reality?) some non-Americans have of us. -
Posted By: kadry15 @ 11/28/2008 10:06:55 PM
It seems like gay people used to have more rights then women (before Prop 8). On Sept 3rd 08, Jay Leno sided with (joked) about gotopless.org saying something about it being time for women.
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Posted By: rodetripper @ 11/26/2008 3:27:12 PM
It's a total mystery to me - why do people care if gays get married? Of all the issues facing us now, why care about this one? And don't quote the Old Testament to me - we all know what Jesus would have done. Seriously, I just don't understand the furor. Is it because of the myth that gays are pedophiles?
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 5:46:04 PM
Do gays need prenuptial agreements for civil unions?
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 5:42:43 PM
Anyone else having trouble getting comments posted? If it's just me I suspect that Newsweek finds my comments too well thought out and sensible.
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Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 11/22/2008 5:17:06 PM
So Newsweak has a gay editor that is now the victim of something. Wow, imagine that!
Suspicions confirmed..... -
Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 9:07:06 AM
All the federal government can do regarding gay marriage is offer up guidelines for non-discrimination, which they already have done. Marriage is a license, plain and simple. Licensing is handled at the state level or lower, such as the various permit forms of licensing (contractors, businesses) that are handled at city or county level. Most marriages are handled at local courthouses. Unless the federal government wants to get into the licensing business, It looks like the fate of gay marriages is in the hands of the states. And that means the voters.
If I was pro-gay marriage, which I am not, I would be thinking about ways to educate the public in a positive and passive way. Screaming at people that disagree in front of churches is a really lousy start. Let the general public know that gay marriage in no way threatens the public at large. You can't do that with bullhorns. Gays need to find less angry and more P.R. conscious methods to deliver their message. -
Posted By: Floridave @ 11/21/2008 10:03:03 PM
I've given this a lot of thought, and I think I have come up with a compromise. Gay people should be allowed to marry underaged dogs of the same sex. I think that's plenty fair. It's kinky and currently illegal, and I think that's really the primary goal.
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Posted By: ok4u @ 11/21/2008 8:01:16 PM
If only 'same-sex marriage' weren't an oxymoron, it might be more readily acceptable. It would be more accurately called same-gender marriage. But that's an oxymoron, too. Trying to make something so that is not so is kind of like insisting that your dog is a cat. You can call it a cat all you want, but a dog is always a dog, and will never be a cat. The dog, and the cat, are already defined, and have been for thousands of years. If a judge redefines a dog and calls it a cat, the people who still know it's a dog certainly have the right to democratically overrule the confused judge, and take back the original definition.
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Posted By: joe 6pack @ 11/21/2008 4:23:54 PM
This story is about the sexually depraved and the effort to force acceptance of said depravity. (homosexulity)
The Democrat party enables this depravity.
So,
VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT IS GAY
DON'T BE G A Y. -
Posted By: knorton @ 11/21/2008 4:20:15 PM
Even as a heterosexual living on the other side of the country, I was shocked at the passage of Prop 8. I think all of these religious conservatives are forgetting that God tells us "Thou shalt not judge". I can't imagine how anyone can be threatened by others choosing to publicly profess their love & devotion to one another. I am Catholic, happily married, and do not feel as though the sanctity of my marriage has in any way been diminished by the legalization of same-sex marriage in my home state of Massachusetts.
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 9:10:23 AM
It has nothing to do with the sanctity of your marriage. If your neighbor buys a loud Harley Davidson it doesn't affect how your station wagon works. But it may affect the peace and quiet of your neighborhood.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/22/2008 11:08:34 AM
How would gay marriage disturb the neighborhood?
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 5:42:00 PM
Well, for one thing the first time there was a noisy "Cher look alike" party in the gay neighbor's front yard, there would be trouble.
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Posted By: SYWanda @ 11/21/2008 12:42:02 PM
Outside of age restrictions, I think this eventually has to be resolved beyond each state. I think its ridiculous that one state passes something, while another state does the opposite. Those that are able to get married should have the protection of the federal law behind them, not just a particular state law.
Equal rights to be recognized under the law, excluding the churches and what they decide to do. I have no idea how you resolve it with the church, but I do know whats right under federal civil law, and that is that gays should have equal rights in partner recognition.-
Posted By: Floridave @ 11/21/2008 2:49:35 PM
OF COURSE it is a state issue. This is exactly the sort of thing that different people of different states will have strong feelings about. California morality should not be imposed on Alabama citizens, or vice versa. Every state already has their own laws regarding marriage, consent, etc.... gay marriage falls right into that category. What you are preaching is some sort of a big brother federal police concept which is pretty much a Gestapo. No thank you.
Regarding federal civil law, as you call it, why do we even have states? Not even medicaid is handled consistently from state to state because each state has its own problems and its own needs. Federal involvement would just add a layer of bureaucracy that would cost money and do nothing. We already have federal laws about anti-discrimination (which are good) and even about hate crimes (which are stupid).
Finally, gays already have equal rights. You can do pretty much anything you want that you were physically designed to do. Ask any gay person over 50 years old if we have progressed as a nation. They will probably have some interesting stories to share.
The desire for marriage is really a desire for legitimacy that will probably come in time, but as long as the majority of voters are uncomfortable with it, it is just not going to happen.
Hang in there, your time will come. But for now you should respect the law, and the decision of the voters and work peacefully and respectfully to not only change the law, but to ingratiate yourself with the voters that are yet to understand why you would want to get married in the first place. Change takes time, but not forever. Less than 50 years ago, Kennedy almost lost an election for being Catholic, and now we have our first black leader in the White House. America changes, but only slowly and carefully.
Your day will come. But plan on blazing a trail for others instead of yourself. That's how progress works.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 3:02:06 PM
"OF COURSE it is a state issue. This is exactly the sort of thing that different people of different states will have strong feelings about. California morality should not be imposed on Alabama citizens, or vice versa."
1. Equal protection under law is a federal issue, as per article VI of the constitution (ie, the constitution overrides state constitutions and laws).
2. Nobody's morality should be imposed on anyone, period. The difference here is that if gays DO marry, it doesn't have any effect on your rights. If gays are NOT allowed to marry, it DOES impact their rights. The former is not an impostion (unless you are arguing that people will be forced into Gay Marriages), and the latter is.-
Posted By: not-fooled-by-slick-talking-charlatans @ 11/21/2008 5:12:19 PM
Floridave and Troll, I mean Trell, aren't worth responding to. Their 'gays have the same rights as everyone, the right to marry someone of the opposite sex" garbage is ridiculous. If gay people wanted to marry someone of the opposite sex, they wouldn't be gay. DUH!
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/21/2008 10:05:57 PM
Well then that solves it. Thanks. No gay marriage.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/22/2008 11:09:07 AM
How does that solve it?
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 5:44:29 PM
Easy. No gay marriage ends the discussion. No more arguing, no more referendums, no more guy dressed up like nuns holding up protest posters.
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Posted By: orangeandblue @ 11/21/2008 2:47:31 PM
It will happen on a Federal level at some point. With an Obama presidency probably sooner rather than later. The gay community hasn't brought cases to the Federal courts because they know right now the Supreme Court would probably shut them down and set the cause back a few steps. After some new blood is in the court, the S.C. will hear a case on this issue and they will find in favor of equality.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:26:12 PM
Peace, and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:54:23 AM
I think the agenda is to make people accept it no matter what their beliefs are. I don't like saying GAy because it means happy. Noone seems happy on here, but a few people. You can get married, but that does not mean people will accept it. I know it will not change how I feel about marriage, marriage has always been to me, between a woman and a man and always will be. Marriage to a lot of people has nothing to do with religion, but the way things are and will always be, change is envitable, but it does not change everybody. Social norms have always existed, that is the truth. That's life, we will all have to live with the decisions we make without trying to get others to agree with it.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 11:54:45 AM
"You can get married, but that does not mean people will accept it."
Nobody cares if you accept it. This isn't about whether or not you LIKE it...this is about equal protection under law.-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 11:56:26 AM
I think it is about acceptance or you would not keep commenting on everybody's comment.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:06:37 PM
Take a hike, jerk. This is an open blog, and I'll post the way I please.
Thanks.-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:13:58 PM
Name calling, never called you a name. Not acceptable. It's all good because I am not offended, I can get on people's last nerve.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:26:17 PM
"Name calling, never called you a name. "
Name calling is not required to be a troll. But you knew that.-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:40:13 PM
Name calling is what jerks do, however, I am not a jerk.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:30:17 PM
And you are not a troll? Could have fooled me.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:50:09 PM
Your opinion has been given all the consideration it merits.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:58:25 PM
Control, nerver gonna stop.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:10:15 PM
Oooh the Doc can't take the heat so he wants me to get out of the kitchen. Please you talk someone else can too, same here.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:00:25 PM
Then let the law work itself out, but I can tell you this it will not be overturned. I know.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:07:22 PM
We'll see. The CA supreme court has agreed to hear the case.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:11:19 PM
I already see.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:50:49 PM
Did Baby Jesus tell you?
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:07:58 PM
The thing about blogs is that you never know who you are talkin to, this is so great.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:04:54 PM
Enquiring minds would like to know, pay close attention to CNN, real soon.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 1:13:59 PM
Okay, you turned out to be a waste of time.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:21:56 PM
So if there is good time you are it? My time was not wasted because some people just have to be in control and they need someone to tell them so.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 11:08:07 AM
I meant to say change is inevitable.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:41:14 AM
nimodahooligan, First of all get a grip.. Secondly are you implying all parents put there children in front of TV and INternets? Really this is off topic, war?
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 10:52:19 AM
you get a grip...i was talking about all the other BS people could be worrying about instead of 2 people that want to be married and see the benefts of that marraige be a reality.... i was talking about how people are so concerned with THIS topic when there are bigger problems...its pretty relevent if YOU could get a grip...
or did one of those comments offend you??
and yes, a VAST majority of people put they're kids in front of a TV and give them free unlimited access to INTERNET and let them get exposed to all kinds of stuff thats worse than being exposed to homosexuality... if you had the ability of reading comprehension you might have connected the dots and realized that my post is right ON TOPIC.-
Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 10:56:35 AM
its a writing tactic called that goes
-thesis
-body
-conclusion
or did you miss english class?-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 11:39:16 AM
Okay, trying to be funny, you are loosening up a little.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:56:27 AM
or did one of those comments offend you??
I think you are offended by me saying get a grip.-
Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 11:46:33 AM
yes i was offended by that. i have a grip. im seeing the world and connecting our complex network of societal problems and issues to the topic at hand as i see it.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:20:07 PM
I lke you, you are real, even though I missed your unclear thesis. You alright.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:27:59 PM
I like you, I left the I out of like, don't let my professor know.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 1:47:49 PM
hahaha im emailing him as we speak...
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:58:31 AM
English Major
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 11:40:52 AM
good, now go write me a thesis paper about how i was off topic and how my comments didnt relate to the article at hand in correlation to your viewpoints in regards to religion, war, society, and homosexuality and how each point relate to eachother. 20,000 words, 12 point font, single space.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 11:46:21 AM
Four words--where is your thesis?
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 11:54:14 AM
This OT or off topic: It is not a research paper it is a comment, because if you did your research you would find out that most parents do not sit there kids in front of the TV, many of them work. They are taken care of by relatives, childcare centers, and family day care. These places have structured activities, they may include some TV, but it is limited. Then please research the Waldorf doctrine or philosophy, they believe in no TV for children.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 1:42:36 PM
wow...english major and a child developemental expert AND a day care expert...your an american hero.
clapclapclapclap....-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:48:00 PM
No clap, clap to you, you are getting it right.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 1:54:58 PM
im more of a back patter myself...
::PAT PAT::
a job well done Nimo...now go find yourself...-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:58:43 PM
How humans treat each other, angry disrespectful, that is what you said, find yourself.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 2:54:44 PM
and im not being disrespectful to you. we are discussing on a free discussion board in the land of america, land of the free, land of free to say what i want on the internet just as much on the street. and im not speaking to you any differently than i would a stranger...wait a minute...YOU ARE A STRANGER!
if you for one minute think that how im speaking is disrespectful you must not get out much... -
Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 2:39:27 PM
i was trying to be funny with a crack about "finding nemo" but that flew over your head. i was speaking in the first person... comprehension is kind of a big deal if your an english major i might add...
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 1:41:19 PM
ummm...yea, i understand that...i went to daycare growing up and guess what, we watched alot of TV.
what about when mommy and daddy get home from work?
i do think that your the one that needs to get a grip...
well research american life...TV's and computers and video-games are babysitters. i see it all the time.
"oh hunny just go watch TV"
"if i put a movie on will you leave mommy alone for awhile? im really busy..."
"here, heres a video game, i dont know what its all about but you like it so play away to your cute little hearts desire and i have to go run errands for awhile"
"hmm, family guy, its a cartoon right? how bad can it be?"
"2 girls one cup? sounds like a game, yea thats fine go ahead and watch that"
"here ya go honey, i just hooked up the satellite TV in your room, dont stay up too late now! kisses!"
"grand theft auto? how bad can it be, i mean its just a video game...here ya go tommy!! remember tomorrow is finger painting at school!"
thats american life for many childeren.
SOOOO....be exposed to to gay men that care for eachother? or sex, drugs, violence, and overstimluation all in hi-def quality viewing with surround sound?
let them get married, they pay taxes, they are citizens of america. PERIOD.
there are literally a million other things i would keep my kids from being exposed to over men and women kissing and loving eachother in public, much less ACTUALLY honoring they're vows and commitments to eachother unlike, ohhh say, over 50% of heterosexual couples in the whole nation...-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 1:55:13 PM
much less ACTUALLY honoring they're vows and commitments to eachother unlike, ohhh say, over 50% of heterosexual couples in the whole nation.
Okay Statistics Bureau, and there are a lot of happily married heterosexual couples, I might add. Where do you get you statistics about children and marriages? Stick with statistics that are up to date.-
Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 2:33:34 PM
uh....ok? up to date huh...how bout this... i alone have witnessed 6 divorces.
1: when my mom and dad split
2: when my dad and his second wife split which left me with a couple of siblings ive never met
3: when my mom divorced her second husband
4: when my dad split with yet another wife
5:my grandparents split after 40 years of marriage
6: my father is currently divorcing another wife...
im just one person.
i dont think i have more than a handful of friends or even aquantinces that dont have a broken home. AND, they are all heterosexual couples.
maybe my statistics arent spot on but there is still a very high number of HETEROSEXUAL divorces going on. the rates HAVE dropped steadily since the 70's but more and more people are comfortable with living together before marriage, or couples just dont get married at all and live together. again, getting back to the topic at hand, in relation to homosexuals getting married i would honestly say from the homosexuals i know, many of them are genuinley in love and i would even go so far to say they have a better understanding of their "spouses" than a hetero couple would. they seem much happier than many married couples i know...-
Posted By: not-fooled-by-slick-talking-charlatans @ 11/21/2008 5:18:54 PM
Let me add to that.
My mother has been married 5 times (so far). Three of those times were before she turned 30.
Her mother was married 7 times.
And my grandmother's mother was married 8 times.
How is it that heterosexuals sanctify marriage more than homosexuals could? How about facts instead of religious regurgitation, k?
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 2:11:46 PM
Just because TV was normal to some, it does not mean it was normal childrearing for others. Sometimes we did not have a TV, if the other one blew out, so I guess you are not used to hearing "Go read a book' or "go play outside". That's how you do it.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 2:36:09 PM
hahaha ok, i had more books in my house than the elementary school i attended. i read daily from books (currently re-reading heart of darkness) to news, to newspaper, i dont own a tv or a gaming system. happy? and im 22. go find me some 22 year olds that can say that.
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/22/2008 9:16:32 AM
I saw a movie about you. It was called "Powder."
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 2:07:53 PM
Where is you clear cut thesis, no rambling.
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Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 11/21/2008 10:31:59 AM
it amazes me how humans treat eachother...with so much hate, agression, pent up anger and disrespect...
how far weve some since the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's...
how far weve come as a world community since WWII...
how far we have advanced our technologies and understanding of the world and universe that surrounds us...
and more importantly how far we still need to go...
so much has happened and people stil dont understand that we are all humans, living on the only planet we know of that can support life of our kind, and that we are all struggling daily with our own demons... and people hate a human being that they dont know or have any relation to just for loving someone of the opposite sex... you hate someone loving someone else? you think its weird? that homos arent "normal"?
you know whats weird to me?
-parents that would cast aside their own blood because of a viewpoint, or being gay
-parents that oppose having they kids "exposed" to homosexuality but are the first to prop they're little tykes in front of cable TV and Internet
-people that oppose abortion but are the first in line for war
-people that claim a supposedly peaceful religion but shout at the top of they're lungs about how much hate or contempt they have for others, or they claim a righteous war...
-people that are the first to pull out a bible and quote scripture but are the first to turn around and commit sin or forget the ten commandments and are the first in line to be "born again" or repent.
-people that claim a tolerant religion, an all loving and accepting religion but are the first to turn around and say that all other religions are wrong, any other way is wrong and everyone is going to burn in hell that doesnt follow a christian god.
-people that claim freedom and human rights but cast aside the places where theres no profit in helping fight the good fight (darfur as an example)
-people with a blood lust for war (when was the last time war did anyone any good?)
know what i think is not "normal"?
-people that put they're life on the line for a book that promises enternal salvation
-people that have a whole world of problems for themselves but are consumed in holding back others and making problems in other peoples lives
-people that claim they are doing "gods work" or that they "are speaking with god"
i could go on and on about whats weird and not "normal" or all the worlds problems and our own problems as a country...and we are stuck on marriage? marriage between 2 grown sentient and consenting adults that care about eachother.... thats weird, thats not normal... its like people saying they dont wish to see love happen. or is it that most are so depressed about they're own marriages that they dont want to see other people genuinley happy?
love is love
war is war
religion is religion
after that, its all semantics...in my opinion -
Posted By: Siobhan Black @ 11/21/2008 12:52:30 AM
I am a straight, married, Christian, 49-year-old working mother. How, exactly, does gay marriage threaten my family (or anyone else's)? Don't you think that God has better things to do -- much, much bigger problems to solve -- than worrying about who loves whom?
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Posted By: summer4077 @ 11/21/2008 11:00:50 AM
Agreed. With all the hate, war, and death in the world you'd think people would welcome love and happiness.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:29:45 AM
Many other problems to worry about, but this blog is not about them, it is about a specific issue.
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Posted By: sean.douglas @ 11/21/2008 12:25:12 AM
No, First Marriage is not just a binding contract between two people, it is God`s plan for us, a man and a woman. Unfortunately this society is on the downfall from God because of it`s great disobedience, tolerating sin, first we comfort homosexuals, next we will be comforting drug addicts and alcoholics, saying that`s ok, go ahead and smoke more crack and take another shot. We are seeing god`s judgment upon us, just look at hurricane kartina, it wouldn`t be too far off to speculate.
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Posted By: not-fooled-by-slick-talking-charlatans @ 11/21/2008 3:07:55 PM
Hurricane Katrina is no more catastrophic than other natural disasters going on around the world. Are the people in those foreign lands being punished to? For what?
Also, there are many countries around the world that have expanded marriage to same-sex couples, including Great Britain and Canada. I have not heard of any disasters going on with them. Or is God just biding his time and going to destroy them in his own time? I am asking you because you seem to have bestowed yourself to be God's spokesman. -
Posted By: GabeVA @ 11/21/2008 1:16:39 PM
That is, without a doubt, the DUMBEST thing I've heard all day... and I teach elementary school. Hurricane Katrina? Really? Do still burn witches at the stake and try to convert little pagan babies?
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Posted By: instawood85 @ 11/20/2008 9:45:56 PM
I understand completely. Even though I cannot marry my boyfriend. I really wish I could. The Morons or you know should have their tax-exempt status revoked. They are embroiled in a political situation, isn't that illegal? Anyway I hope that you get to stay married. you are an inspiration to us all. I may never be able to marry my man, I live Kansas the bible slapping belt of the mid-west.
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Posted By: Chico1 @ 11/20/2008 9:40:43 PM
I am gay and I have no AGENDA, just want what every other American has
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Posted By: Floridave @ 11/20/2008 10:36:20 PM
You mean a woman? Go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.
Problem solved, next problem please.-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 9:22:32 AM
Wait. So you're FOR lesbian marriage, or women aren't Americans? Which?
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 10:51:10 AM
I think the agenda is to make people accept it no matter what their beliefs are. I don't like saying GAy because it means happy. Noone seems happy on here, but a few people. You can get married, but that does not mean people will accept it. I know it will not change how I feel about marriage, marriage has always been to me, between a woman and a man and always will be. Marriage to a lot of people has nothing to do with religion, but the way things are and will always be, change is envitable, but it does not change everybody. Social norms have always existed, that is the truth. That's life, we will all have to live with the decisions we make without trying to get others to agree with it.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 11:55:53 AM
Quit spamming.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:07:45 PM
You quit spamming, slamming, and jamming on the blog. You know you want to laugh, laugh, I say laugh.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:28:25 PM
Laugh at what? You cut and pasting the same post multiple times?
Well, why not? But I'm not laughing WITH you.-
Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:51:42 PM
Boy you are an uptight, loosen up and live.
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:33:22 PM
I cut and pasted once, Sometimes we make mistakes.I did not say that or did I?
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 12:51:47 PM
You cut and pasted by mistake?
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Posted By: trell @ 11/21/2008 12:56:09 PM
Go figure.
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Posted By: unitethefight @ 11/20/2008 9:21:08 PM
to Emilyam - Though I get your point, I think you should look up your history on marriage. Gay marriage has been around for thousands of years, dating before Christ. Read up on it. The Romans particularly had gay marriage, until guess what religion took over their culture by force? Literally. Christianity. Looks like a pattern to me. So I believe we also have years and years to back up our claim to have a right to marriage. Just because an EQUAL right (and not separate or a "special" right with a new institution set up just for us) has been denied us since our country was found, doesn't mean we haven't "put in the work" as you have said. We have the right to value marriage just as much as you. I also suggest your study your civil rights history.
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Posted By: Jmon @ 11/21/2008 12:33:48 AM
Yes. it's just like the Jim Crow era in the South. The blacks had to put up with separate drinking fountains, separate housing, separate busing, and separate education. And the gays have to deal with (gasp) civil unions!? A government recognized document that gurantees equal benefits just as regular marriage. Just because a majority of Californians decided that marriage is between a man and a woman, doesn't mean your are second class citizens. Consider that our contemporary media and culture (i.e the Television) seems to accept your lifestyle just fine.
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Posted By: orangeandblue @ 11/21/2008 9:49:29 AM
It's not a "lifestyle". "Lifestyle" indicates choice. A person is born gay, there is no choice.
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Posted By: orangeandblue @ 11/21/2008 10:04:18 AM
Jmon,
Can you really not see the similarities between the AA struggle against discrimination and the gay struggle against discrimination? Gays have been beaten and murdered. They have been outcast by family members, have grown up being called ***, hearing that they are an abomination because of something they can not change. The real difference between these two communities is that one group can hide who they are and the other group can be instantly identified by the color of their skin. Think about it, in 1967 the ban against interracial marriage was finally struck down, should your community just have said, "we have come this far, but who really cares about our right to marry whoever we choose".-
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/21/2008 11:57:36 AM
"Can you really not see the similarities between the AA struggle against discrimination and the gay struggle against discrimination?"
Of course they can. It's an argument they can't answer, so they simply deny the obvious parallel.-
Posted By: Jmon @ 11/22/2008 12:51:37 AM
To answer the question, the simple fact is that Blacks were discriminated against for something that they could not control, their ethnicity. Whether or not gay people can control their sexuality is questionable. I happen to know two men who used to be homosexual and are now happily married to women. Secondly, you are delusional if you think having to accept civil unions is on par with being forced to sit in the back of a bus or drink from dilapitated drinking fountains. To compare this issue with the Civil Rights movement is an insult to MLK and Rosa Parks. Get over yourselves.
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