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Kenyan men recently released from an Ethiopian jail say U.S. intelligence officials interrogated them.

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  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 3:33:49 PM

    Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution allows for the Constitution to be suspended in matters of Public Saftey - Did you ever read the Constitution? I hope by your comments that you are a child and unable vote. If not I think we need to invest more in education in this country.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 3:37:07 PM

      No, article I, sec 9 allows for suspension of the privilege of habeas corpus, genius...and only "in times of invasion or insurrection when the public safety shall demand it". It says nothing about suspending the constitution itself.

      Nice try. You might consider spewing your lies around people who have never read the constitution.

      • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 3:55:58 PM

        Habeus Corpus is the act of holding someone without cause, which was the particular in this case - Try spreading your propaganda to the moronic base that voted for the next president, they will eat it up

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:00:53 PM

          We have neither been invaded, nor do we have a rebellion going on.

          Please learn to read for context.

          • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 4:06:36 PM

            In issues of Public Safety - Keep trying at least your learning something.

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:16:41 PM

              So you're capable of reading only part of a sentence?

              Sucks to be you, Junior.

              • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 4:22:58 PM

                So you???re capable of interpreting only part of a sentence. Thank you for opening my eyes to the lack of education in this country. I HOPE you get a clue and CHANGE your ignorence

                • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:26:26 PM

                  No, I read the whole sentence. 2 conditions are listed (invasion or rebellion), and the justification (the public safety. You need to satisfy one of the conditions for the justification to apply.

                  This is all going right over your head, isn't it, Jethro?

                  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 4:33:56 PM

                    Invasion - an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, So I guess foriegn operatives coming into our country and killing our citizens doesn't count. How long do I have to school you before you relize your an idiot

                    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 5:25:34 PM

                      No, it doesn't count. An invasion is just that: A military invasion of a sovereign state.

                      Now, I can see why someone like you would like to render the constitution powerless, Brydges...you are obviously a statist. However, your arguments are as flimsy as your spine. Grow up. Learn to love freedom.

                      Lastly, learn to spell before calling others "idiots". It makes you look even dumber than you are.

  • Posted By: Opinionated1 @ 11/20/2008 4:08:44 PM

    I voted for Obama, but I also believe in a strong America. When they talk about WWII and the treaty that protects from inhumane interrogation, I say, this is not WWII. The Nazis were vicious as well, of course, but we are not dealing with Europeans, the Middle East and Africa are brutal places, and Islamic extremists are not going to tap us on our bottoms and send us on our way. Like I heard it said, what are we suppose to do...play patty cake while they chop off our heads. Have we become so liberal, that we miss the point....the terrorists will not have a hairs length of sympathy for us. They pick up our innocent people and KILL THEM, on video even. And we are trying to be such gentlemen, stop it....hold the train. We are not going to win Al-Qaida over with having etiquette in war.

    We must stand up for ourselves, and be just as fierce with them, and let them know that we are not a joke. We are the US of A and we will protect our soil and our people. We are a mighty giant, and we are not the ones to play with. We have a big heart for those less fortunate, but when you mess with us you had better watch your back. Because we are coming for you......we look like such punks right now !!! It hurts, that is why they think they can do what they wish with us, and play cat and mouse. If Bin Laden is hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, dammit blow up the whole mountain. And let them know that we will come down with such force. And if we catch you, you will let us know who you are, who they are, where they are, and how they are coming.......

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:16:05 PM

      "I voted for Obama, but I also believe in a strong America. When they talk about WWII and the treaty that protects from inhumane interrogation, I say, this is not WWII. The Nazis were vicious as well, of course, but we are not dealing with Europeans, the Middle East and Africa are brutal places, and Islamic extremists are not going to tap us on our bottoms and send us on our way. Like I heard it said, what are we suppose to do...play patty cake while they chop off our heads. "

      So your argument is that the rule of law is no match for barbarism.

      Nice.

  • Posted By: HANGEMHIGH @ 11/20/2008 2:32:57 AM

    POOR BABY!

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 11:30:58 AM

      Would it be just as funny if this happened to one of your kids?

      • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 11/20/2008 12:34:35 PM

        Why don't you ask the parents of people killed on 9 - 11?

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:34:26 PM

          These Kenyan guys did that? Wow. How'd they survive the crash?

          • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 11/20/2008 3:56:47 PM

            They had suspected links to Al Qaeda and had "clearly engaged in what we'd consider acts of terrorism," or did you miss that part. The other 82 people, who by the way were not apprehended or held by the US, were released early on. It is incredible to me that Americans like you are so hell bent on defending these criminals that you even take the word of terrorists over that of your fellow Americans -- CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano in Washington, D.C., said, "The agency did not, to my knowledge, ever have custody of these individuals. Nor, to state the obvious, would it be complicit in torture. The CIA goes where it must to gather intelligence ??? but it does so in strict accordance with American law." YOU'RE PATHETIC!

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:05:15 PM

              Oh, yes, and the CIA is famous for telling the truth.

              Yellowcake, anyone?

            • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:04:18 PM

              "but it does so in strict accordance with American law."

              It does? So, ratified treaties are not "the law of the land", as stated in article VI of the US constitution?

              Is that your final answer?

  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 1:36:16 PM

    2000 years ago a Roman citizen could go anywhere in the known world without fear of harm, because the reprocussions of harming a Roman citizen were so severe. We cater to these people and then wonder why they constantly test us. The U.S. empire will fall from within thanks to misguided, media brainwashed, liberals.

    • Posted By: birdwatcher @ 11/20/2008 3:27:33 PM

      Amen!

      • Posted By: E39 M5 @ 11/20/2008 3:46:00 PM

        Remind me again what happened to the Roman Empire!!!

        • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 3:52:51 PM

          It was destroyed by leftist liberals who wouldn't stand up to Barbarian invaders.

          • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:02:29 PM

            No, actually, it was destroyed because it's army was off fighting the Persians when the Visigoths showed up. Try reading Ammianus Marcellus.

            Do you ALWAYS just make stuff up, Brydges?

          • Posted By: E39 M5 @ 11/20/2008 4:01:54 PM

            Was it that? Or was it that everyone was sick and tired of the bully on the block?

      • Posted By: E39 M5 @ 11/20/2008 3:44:57 PM

        Remind me again what happened to the Roman Empire !!!

  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 3:06:05 PM

    No it's called Kenya and the Government was almost overthrown a few months ago. - How do you even know how to work the Internet

  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 2:40:46 PM

    Doc Howl - once again you prove your ignorence. The Constitution may be suspended in an emergency and it doesn't apply to foriegn soil - What you want to hear is that Bush personally told the C.I.A. to imprison inocent people.
    Fact: New poll show most Obama voters have no idea how the government works and who runs it.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:54:21 PM

      "Doc Howl - once again you prove your ignorence. The Constitution may be suspended in an emergency and it doesn't apply to foriegn soil "

      No, there is no provision for suspending the constitution.

      Also, the constitution applies anywhere we impinge on a ratified treaty. Have you ever even READ the constitution? Doesn't look like it.

      • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 3:00:02 PM

        The President , The Congress, and FEMA may Suspend the Constitution- Get an Education and get back to me.

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 3:26:04 PM

          Okay, let's see a credible link, or a passage from the constitution that allows this.

  • Posted By: zig @ 11/20/2008 3:11:33 PM

    Yea that jerkoff would absolutily tell the truth . Also how does he know the interrogators were really from the US. This smells too much like a set up. These are the same clowns that send out thoes letters about money in a bank just waiting to be sent to you if you give them your bank account number. I can't imagin sending 6 white US agents to interrogate a black suspect. It's not done that way.. This is something Moveon .org would set up it's their style. Kindest Regards Joe

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 3:25:12 PM

      " Yea that jerkoff would absolutily tell the truth . Also how does he know the interrogators were really from the US. "

      Because we're the ones that outsource torture, of course.

  • Posted By: alegr @ 11/20/2008 3:14:31 PM

    Consider this. A war begins. Country "R" invades country "G". A military adviser from country "A" is captured by "R" army. He's declared an "unlawful combatant" and "terrorist" and gets held in country R prison, without access to legal counsel and without judicial hearing. He's subjected to waterboarding, and other harsh treatment, like sleep deprivation. What would country "A" do to protect the guy?
    "A": "We request that you release this person, because you cannot hold wim without charges and legal councel"
    "R": "Who says that? Your president thinks that it's perfectly OK to do that for unlawful combatants and terrorists"
    "A": "But he's not an unlawful combatant and terrorist."
    "R": Yes, he is because we say so. We don't need a court to declare that. And, by the way, we don't have him in our posession. He's in country "I", those guys know how to interrogate their enemies. And, by the way, he admitted he's a terrorist"
    "A": "How could you do that"
    "R": "You do that, too".

  • Posted By: jcred @ 11/20/2008 1:29:32 PM

    The fact is if the Kenyans would get their act together and establish an ACTUAL GOV'T with actual borders, authorities, etc, instead of acting like vengeful monsters it WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY FOR US TO ACT UNILATERALLY. These people were all crossing from 1 country to another w/o permission... along with militant personnel (virtually indistinguishable from each other...). Ethiopia has every right to detain these people and work with whomever they chose to ensure that the refugees don't pose a threat, incl. working with Americans! The "good faith" nature of the gov't was proven when they released all but 8 detainees within a reasonable timeframe. How can anyone expect things to go "by the book" in such a lawless area? Can American laws dictate behavior in Africa? Or does America just get blamed for EVERYTHING, regardless of the facts? Is Barack Obama going to side with the Kenyans OVER the Ethiopians, when Kenya is in disarray and Ethiopia is our ally? Would a Democrat really have that many successful alternative methods to acheive the necessary results? What proof of abuse exists with these men? Can they prove the beatings? I'm not interested in taking just anyone's word that we are culpable for this (or that it even occurred!) regardless of how much it plays into the liberal/anti-war agenda.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:32:26 PM

      "The fact is if the Kenyans would get their act together and establish an ACTUAL GOV'T with actual borders, authorities, etc, instead of acting like vengeful monsters it WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY FOR US TO ACT UNILATERALLY."

      Wait. Kenya? Did you mean Somalia, or are you just an idiot?

      • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 2:44:43 PM

        Kenya did once have a stable government but are now on the verge of civil war - Do you get your news from the daily show or are you just an idiot

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:55:09 PM

          Sure you aren't talking about the Congo? Do you have a link to this imminent civil war?

  • Posted By: bmd12345 @ 11/20/2008 12:28:38 PM

    "Chitta Nirmel @ 11/20/2008 10:39:20 AM
    Comment: Resident Dumbush and his gang of ignorant rednecks are a disgrace to our country"

    Get a life. You wouldn't do anything about these peoples anyway, hypocrite. You would infact leave them dieing. This is typical of immigrants who come to this country and seem to know more about America than americans - except when it comes to volunteering.
    I hardly see and indians and Chinese volunteering for a good cause except to have their hand out

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:36:47 PM

      Hey, Jethro...what do Indians and Chinese have to do with this? I mean, other than giving you an excuse to spew your racist filth?

  • Posted By: 4astrongamerica @ 11/20/2008 12:28:29 PM

    Have you people ever heard the saying "Fight Fire with Fire"? We cannot play patty cake with the terrorist that are plotting to destroy us. We are fighting a global war or terror. It is not being waged by men in uniform or a national military. It is being waged by women & even children who are willing to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent people. We did not ask for this war, it was thrust upon us by Islamic extremist. Our only recourse is to fight this war by all means necessary in order to protect America. It is crazy that when they announce that they want to destroy America, you people think they are not serious. WAKE UP! I hate that people are being mistreated in the course of fighting this war, but that's what happens in war. Although the Human Rights Watch counsel says that the US interrogators knew or should have known these people were abused, it sounds to me like they were the ones trying to do the right thing in a difficult circumstance. Just as we cannot control every violent action in our country, we cannot control it elsewhere either. This article specifically says that the American's made apologies and ordered the innocent released. What else could be asked of them? If we do not continue aggressively fighting this battle abroad, they will bring the battle to us. They have done it before and would love nothing more than to do it again. We must ensure that never happens.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:35:30 PM

      "Have you people ever heard the saying "Fight Fire with Fire"? "

      Yeah. Usually when some chucklehead is trying to excuse crimes.

  • Posted By: orteleus @ 11/20/2008 12:45:53 PM

    Most of the comments below have focused on the morality of US extraordinary rendition. Putting those arguments aside, however, we should instead focus on the illegality of these acts. Rendition as described in the article above violates domestic and international law.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:33:43 PM

      The right doesn't care about law.

  • Posted By: wondoods @ 11/20/2008 1:18:35 PM

    Wilderness Voice,
    Would you rather see these terrorists free to introduce their charming way of law and life on you?I'm sure they would like to sit down at the table with you over a nice warm cup of cocoa and dicuss hugging trees while you criticize the government that keeps them one step away from beheading you .

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:33:10 PM

      There's no proof this guy is a terrorist.

  • Posted By: tishman @ 11/20/2008 1:53:53 PM

    These same AHs will be demanding answers when the next terroist strikes the US. You can not have it both ways. "the Constitution is not a sucide pact."

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:30:56 PM

      So it is your assertion that:

      1. The constitution is not good enough, and/or is not functional in an emergency, and

      2. The constitution is optional.

      Am I reading you right?

  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 1:29:57 PM

    Newrain is it fair that we should even have to imprision these people. If their own governments and society could operate with some morals then perhaps we wouldn't have to stretch ours. We are allready the police of the world we shouldn't have to be it's social worker too.

  • Posted By: jcred @ 11/20/2008 1:26:51 PM

    The fact is if the Kenyans would get their act together and establish an ACTUAL GOV'T with actual borders, authorities, etc, instead of acting like vengeful monsters it WOULDN'T BE NECESSARY FOR US TO ACT UNILATERALLY. These people were all crossing from 1 country to another w/o permission... along with militant personnel (virtually indistinguishable from each other...). Ethiopia has every right to detain these people and work with whomever they chose to ensure that the refugees don't pose a threat, incl. working with Americans! The "good faith" nature of the gov't was proven when they released all but 8 detainees within a reasonable timeframe. How can anyone expect things to go "by the book" in such a lawless area? Can American laws dictate behavior in Africa? Or does America just get blamed for EVERYTHING, regardless of the facts? Is Barack Obama going to side with the Kenyans OVER the Ethiopians, when Kenya is in disarray and Ethiopia is our ally? Would a Democrat really have that many successful alternative methods to acheive the necessary results? What proof of abuse exists with these men? Can they prove the beatings? I'm not interested in taking just anyone's word that we are culpable for this (or that it even occurred!) regardless of how much it plays into the liberal/anti-war agenda.

  • Posted By: newsrain @ 11/20/2008 1:17:23 PM

    We should indeed to all we can to prevent terrorism from ever reaching our shores, but the intelligence always needs to be strong enough to warrant grabbing people off the streets who simply may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure, the US interrogators apologized, one word of "sorry" in exchange for locking someone up for months with no reason given and shocking treatment. I believe in the security of our nation, but there is no excuse for wrongful treatment of innocent bystanders. Some of the comments below have described that as something that simply happens because mistakes are always made. Very true, but I don't see more effort being put into better technologies to at least lower these incidences, people are still just being rounded up and sent to jail with no means of representing themselves. Imagine some agents of a foreign country who comes by and throws you in some secret prison because they confused you with someone else. You stay there for six months, then all they say to you is "sorry, we were mistaken, you are now free"??? Is that fair for six months of unfair imprisonment, loss of job, strain on family etc.

  • Posted By: brydges @ 11/20/2008 1:13:11 PM

    "Oh No those evil Americans did it again" If these types of incidents could have prevented 911 then we should praise the CIA for doing their job. I am sick of Brainwashed Leftists who would risk the lives of their family and mine to protect the personel freedom of a handful of foreigners that are usually criminals. Why should we respect these people anyway, we don't get it in return.

  • Posted By: Chitta Nirmel @ 11/20/2008 10:39:20 AM

    Resident Dumbush and his gang of ignorant rednecks are a disgrace to our country. The U.S. is like some poor soul who has suffered constipation for almost eight years. The sooner we dump out Dumbush and his favorite Dick the sooner we well all feel real relief. Then, as their stink drifts away over time, we can get back to being the country we can all be proud of.

    • Posted By: FOLLOW ME @ 11/20/2008 12:23:34 PM

      Poor Chitta...apparently your desperate use of namecalling speaks to the caliber of people you represent. Need I say more?

    • Posted By: Ad Nauseum @ 11/20/2008 11:23:09 AM

      Chitta Chitta,A mind is a terrible thing to waste....

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