The Rights Of Animals

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  • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 4:41:31 PM

    I don't have an issue with basic animal welfare laws nor laws agianst out and out cruelty to animals.... but please don't try to propagandize us with the "meat is bad for you" line when se clearly evolved as top predators, who eat vegtables and fruit as forage for lean hunting times. Also do not try and impose soe animals have human rights crap. Animals are animals, they have the rights that nature gives all life, submit to the strong ( get eaten?), fight the strong, flee from the strong. Thats it.

    • Posted By: Michelle O @ 11/20/2008 10:57:23 PM

      Respectfully, meat is bad for you. It makes you perspire, the animals you eat are full of antibiotic and hormones which permeate your body, downed animals get into the meat supply and may be ill (and make you ill), and animals cause huge amounts of methane to be released into the air, a fossil fuel.
      If that sounds good to you, I don't know what you're thinking.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:46:00 AM

        No, meat is not bad for you. We evolved to eat meat. Getting hot makes you perspire not eating meat, not that perspiration is bad for you. If we have pumped our meat full of garbage; then that is an indictment against us, not against meat. The same is true if e are putting diseased meat into the food supply. As for the methane argument, what you think the millions of wild buffalo which moved across the Plain before we fenced it for cattle didn???t produce methane? This is a non argument.

    • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 4:45:06 PM

      let me be clear... I do not concider killing animals cruel, I hunt and fish, and niether are cruel.

  • Posted By: jkabe @ 11/20/2008 4:18:19 PM

    Chickens have the right to move about freely and not experience pain. Sounds good. When we will extend the rights to the unborn as well? Being partially birthed, then having your tiny skull crushed, that can't feel good, but it happens everyday across the US in abortion clinics. Let's extend rights to all living creatures, not just animals.

    • Posted By: Michelle O @ 11/20/2008 11:01:12 PM

      Respectfully, one thing has nothing to do with the other. You are talking about rights of the unborn, we're talking about the rights of the born.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:34:27 AM

        so eggs and fetal animals are okay to eat. since they haven't been born yet.

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 11/20/2008 6:33:48 PM

    But the ALF [Animal Liberation Front] is not. A portion of Singers ''Movement'' is a portion of the FBIs Most Wanted. I was unaware that terrorism could be considered ''mainstream''unless you live in Gaza.

    • Posted By: PhilipS @ 11/20/2008 7:11:02 PM

      Lee Holmly, Do you even know who the ALF are? Can you even name one incident of a terrorist act by someone in the ALF? You are pretty ignorant and know not about what you write here. Peter Singer is a Philosophy professor and the ALF are not a real organization or a part of any movement.

      • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 11/21/2008 12:26:48 AM

        I can name several.

        www.doj.gov The FBIS Uniform Crime Report [''ALF'',''ARM''. 2004-present].

        Do not gull me with your BS. The ALF would have never even been placed on this list had it not been desigated a ''terrorist''organization by the feds for the crap they are pulling. Quit acting like these are sufferagettes. Singer is an ALF puppet,who nevertheless is seeing the growing violence being perpetrated by the ALF splinter arm,the Animal Rights Militia,which openly advocates violence as the means to an end. You people are making this scene. Why not try leaving people alone.[lest someone takes a knitting needle and plants it in your brainpan].

  • Posted By: PhilipS @ 11/20/2008 3:21:48 PM

    Augustpersonage,
    Even the mainstream health professionals all now admit that eating a plant based diet is the healthiest diet for the human body. We are primates,,,we are in fact great apes. Our bodies are more aligned with that of chimps and gorillas (who are vegan in the wild). Heart disease is the number one killer in US and vegans have the lowest heart disease rate in not just this country but all over the world. This is not propaganda these are facts. Read the China Study or the most comprehensive study done in the USA which proves my case. Add to the fact that animals don't have to suffer the horrible cruelty they endure if we stop eating them and you have a pretty compelling reason to go vegan. Do some research!!!

    • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 3:50:36 PM

      ANd no chimps are not vegan inthe wild. chimps hunt.

      • Posted By: secureitdalby @ 11/20/2008 4:58:24 PM

        So help me out here, are you extrapolating data from apes and gorillas to apply to humans? Dietary requirements evolved differently eons ago when humans (hominids) separated off as a species with superior cognitive skilIs and greater adaptation abilities. Is the compelling reason to go vegan that we should not die of heart disease suddenly, only to die of a lingering cancerous illness, cruel in itself? In the end, everyone dies as a result of cardiac death - even apes. The most dietarily efficient morsel you can consume is a piece of lean meat from an animal that has consumed a vegan diet for you. Early human learned to do this when they could find no more berries, or grass/leaves that would not give them diarrhea. It is life with eventual heart disease preferable to death from starvation. Humans have prospered in their diet, apes have not. Probably the reason most humans crave meat on occassion, as well as other foods. Cardiac disease risk factors are also considered in studies to have significant contributions from genetic makeup, aberrant carbohydrate metabolism (diabetes), lifestyle choices (that apes are unable to make) like smoking, drinking, sedentary habits, etc. I like your research - however it would be enhanced by thinking about it afterwards. Your conclusions are seriously flawed. Animals should not be made to suffer unnecessarily because we as humans have empathy for them, after that, a quick death before moderate, wise consumption.

        • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:24:22 AM

          I made no particular extrapilation. I only commented that Chimps are not vegans, they hunt, and in fact they hunt a lot.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 3:51:53 PM

        http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

        • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 4:08:13 PM

          Ouch, ouch, ouch.

          Please don't hurt 'im, AP!

    • Posted By: Progressive American @ 11/20/2008 4:42:01 PM

      What is your view on abortion?

    • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 3:49:20 PM

      I have done my research. A lot of research. I love that you assume I am not a medical professional. Perhaps I am a doctor or a medical historian. The fact is, none of the bodies we have recovered from pre agricultural revolution people have heart disease or any of the other ailments which supposedly come from eating meat.
      You are the one who should do your research.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 3:28:19 PM

      So, it is your assertion that humans are NOT omnivores?

      Is that your final answer?

  • Posted By: Brien Comerford @ 11/20/2008 7:55:30 PM

    The original and idyllic diet of man was vegan (Genesis 1:29). After the fall of man humanity began to exploit, brutalize and massace the animal kingdom. The consumtion of flesh-foods, eggs and milk perpetuates mankind's reign of violence. Veganism is idyllic for reducing pollution, global warming, deforestation, a plethora of environmental crises and cruelty to animals.
    Brien Comerford

    • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:01:45 AM

      Actually your understanding of the Scripture is flawed, if you are going to use the Creation myths of Christianity as an argument please get it right. The diet of man beofre the fall was indeed vegan, it was fruit only. But it did not change after the Fall. It changed after Noah, after God clensed the world of thecorrupt and evil thorugh the Flood. More than that, according to the Bible... there were no predetors at all before the Flood, which is why Christ says that when he returns the Lion will lie withthe lamb.... in otherwords it will be as it was before, there will be no predation at all.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:07:53 AM

        oops that should say friuit and grain only.

    • Posted By: Michelle O @ 11/20/2008 10:46:53 PM

      At least one person makes sense of things here. Thank you.

  • Posted By: ok4u @ 11/20/2008 8:05:12 PM

    Peter Singer thinks chickens, being sentient beings, have intrinsic life rights. Yet Peter Singer also thinks disabled infants, whom he also thinks are sentient beings, may be killed by parents, if it would essentially make the parents feel better. Misanthropes by any other name are still human-haters. Perhaps there is some disability in misanthropy?

    • Posted By: otterone @ 11/20/2008 8:41:21 PM

      No, they are not sentient. This is not news journalism. This is more specious species traitor nonsense from an ALF ideologue propagandist.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/21/2008 12:04:09 AM

        actually they are Sentient but they are not Sapient, so who cares. Roaches and fleas are sentiant... are we going to give them rights?

  • Posted By: merlinsdaughter @ 11/20/2008 10:02:50 PM

    Kevin, I was merely calling attention to the ever increasing human population, loss of habitat, threats to entire ecosystems, extinction of animal + plant species. I have tried hard to try and decipher your comment, but with your bad punctuation, I'm still not sure what you are trying to say.

    • Posted By: PhilipS @ 11/20/2008 11:49:42 PM

      To Merlinsdaughter...What Kevin is trying to articulate is that if humans switched to a vegan diet there would be a huge abundance of food because it would not be going to the billions of animals we then turn into food. What he is saying is that in order to keep the worlds population down humans would not want a vegan world. Too much food too many people eating. What Kevin is forgetting is that we feed almost all of the food grown on this planet to animals then killed for food rather than feeding it to the millions who are starving. Raising animals for food the way we do is the number one cause of global warming and kevin like so many others do not even understand that truth. Look it up. Raising animals for food en masse to feed a planet of nearly 8 billion humans is destroying the planet more than any other cause. Number one cause of greenhouse gasses, water pollution, soil erosion and add in the horrors of meat production to the animals and you have a picture of the worst disaster facing humans and the rest of the world.

  • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 11/20/2008 4:35:06 PM

    What about the companies that have to pay extra money to follow these new guidelines of giving comfort to future food? Aren't they going to suffer and lose tons of money trying to accomodate animal rights activists?

    Eventually, the extra cost is going to trickle down to ALL of society, even though just a few activists push these ridiculous laws. If animal rights/welfare supporters want these things to happen, they need to foot the bill for the slaughterhouses and farms new expenses.

    All opinion on the animal rights movement aside, it comes down to extra cost that non-vegans aren't willing to pay!!

    • Posted By: merlinsdaughter @ 11/20/2008 8:54:17 PM

      First of all Prop 2 was passed by the majority of voters. Second, as long as the extra cost is divided by the consumers, many times it's not even pennies on the dollars. A small price to pay for healthier food, not to mention the welfare of animals. And if one would apply the same concept from your last statement, vegans would have hardly pay anything in health care premiums since the majority of vegans are a lot healthier than their meat-eating counterpart. Most major health risks in this country has to do with a wrong diet + lack of exercise.

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 11:39:20 PM

        exceptthat vegans are not actually healthier

      • Posted By: augustpersonage @ 11/20/2008 11:38:11 PM

        Vegans are not healthier that is simply not true.

  • Posted By: PeoplePowerGranny @ 11/20/2008 11:32:40 PM

    I watched "The Mad Cowboy" tonight and was quite impressed with this former Montana cattleman who becomes a vegan and goes on to Washington, DC, to speak up for farm animals and the need for Americans to do away with industrialized farming and to teach us about the dangers of eating meat. Let me know what you think about this by voting in my poll at peoplepowergranny.blogspot.com. Maybe you can skip a burger tomorrow.

  • Posted By: PeoplePowerGranny @ 11/20/2008 11:32:21 PM

    I watched "The Mad Cowboy" tonight and was quite impressed with this former Montana cattleman who becomes a vegan and goes on to Washington, DC, to speak up for farm animals and the need for Americans to do away with industrialized farming and to teach us about the dangers of eating meat. Let me know what you think about this by voting in my poll at peoplepowergranny.blogspot.com. Maybe you can skip a burger tomorrow.

  • Posted By: orzo @ 11/20/2008 11:19:01 PM

    Thank you for such an insightful article, Newsweek. Singer really presents some thoughtful and persuasive arguments. Bravo!

  • Posted By: theminutepast @ 11/20/2008 2:37:20 AM

    Talexvet, you clearly didn't do your research on who wrote this article (to whom your comment was directed, I believe). Peter Singer has visited many farms in his research for books on animal agriculture, and he has seen what really happens behind closed doors. Personally, I am much more inclined to believe an outsider to the animal agriculture industry than someone such as yourself who works for them. Veterinarians working for factory farms aren't capable of looking after thousands of animals confined into small spaces, and animals with injuries often languish for days before receiving treatment, if any, and may even die before their injuries are noticed. If they do receive treatment, most likely it will be antibiotics, which are recklessly used in this industry and which endanger the safety of humans and animals alike. I'm sorry, but I just can't trust a veterinarian's opinion, especially one which sounds lockstep with industry language.

    • Posted By: talexvet @ 11/20/2008 11:03:42 PM

      I do not work for an industry, I work for animals. My comments were not directed toward Mr. Singer, but rather toward previous posts.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 10:27:50 AM

      "If they do receive treatment, most likely it will be antibiotics, which are recklessly used in this industry "

      If they have an infection, what else is to be done? Healing crystals? For Chrissakes.

  • Posted By: Helen Yoshikawa @ 11/20/2008 11:56:22 AM

    Great! The people of California give Chickens additional rights, but they just took away my right to get married. I think we are earning back our reputation as The Wacky State.

    Helen Yoshikawa, San Francisco

    • Posted By: merlinsdaughter @ 11/20/2008 9:33:11 PM

      I worked to help Prop2 pass. I'm not gay + I just went to a protest against Prop 8. Having compassion for animals does not mean that I automatically hate humans. These issues are not mutually exclusive. To allow a chicken more room to spread her wings doesn't mean that this chicken all of a sudden has more rights. (Unlike the chicken, you aren't kept in a tiny cage + eventually killed). I'm very sad when I heard that Prop8 passed. But I would like to see gay people stop pushing down animal welfare to try to elevate their cause. I don't see how this could help your cause. Honestly, it can only alienate people that are feeling compassionate toward animals.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 12:18:29 PM

      That's because PETA, vegans, etc, love animals more than people.

  • Posted By: Kevinj132 @ 11/20/2008 9:32:55 PM

    Laugh out loud in response to merlinsdaughter guess what human are not and should not be immune to the law of nature that when food is down population goes down. Veganism and feeding more people would be a terrible thing. Use your brain quit exacerbating the problem. Animals die it's not mean it's life you must understand that this is nature it's not all bambi. Plus in the case of cows and chickens we have in-bred the brains out of them all they are anymore is meat.

  • Posted By: mcbell @ 11/20/2008 2:37:40 PM

    I don't think this is as much about animal rights as it is about our rights to eat healthy food. I am positive that the quality of meat that comes from a pig that can turn around or a chicken that can spread its wings is much higher than that of chickens stuck in a cage too small to open their wings and develop lean meat.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 11/20/2008 2:45:21 PM

      What makes you positive?

      • Posted By: merlinsdaughter @ 11/20/2008 9:16:19 PM

        A higher concentration of animals in smaller cages has a much higher risk of outbreaks of diseases, meaning higher doses of antibiotics which end up in the foods we eat.

  • Posted By: otterone @ 11/20/2008 8:58:31 PM

    No, they are not sentient. This is not news journalism. This is more specious species traitor nonsense from an ALF ideologue propagandist.

  • Posted By: ok4u @ 11/20/2008 8:46:09 PM

    Some vegetables are more equal than other vegetables.

  • Posted By: bruce2359 @ 11/20/2008 8:39:24 PM

    What of the rights of vegetables? Surely vegetables live, grow, reproduce, as do sentient beings. Our inability to communicate with vegetables, to understand their thoughts and feelings (don't laugh here; we once thought chimps and orangutans couldn't communicate) should not cloud our minds as we must inevitably ponder "vegetable rights."

  • Posted By: kgpete @ 11/20/2008 7:28:38 PM

    You are kidding, right Newsweek? Unless I'm wrong and this was an opinion piece, having Peter Singer (a radical animal rights activist) write a "news story" on animal rights is like having Osama Bin Laden writing a piece on 9-11 and then calling it objective. What happend to responsible journalism? Ask Professor Singer if he still had to choose between the two, if he'd still choose to kill a mentally retarded child rather than a smart dog.

    • Posted By: PhilipS @ 11/20/2008 8:15:41 PM

      Someone Please ask kgpete if he still had to choose between the two, if mr kgpete the professor of smart, would choose to kill a smart dog or Osama Bin Laden???

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