HEALTH

The Other Credit Crunch

Hospitals and patients alike are struggling with unpaid medical bills. A look at the drastic new measures both sides are taking to survive.

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  • Posted By: Missylee @ 03/15/2009 5:29:20 PM

    Dear: Jessica Bennett,

    I REALLY NEED HELP. I was a volunteer worker for 25yrs. therefore to be in need and ask for help is VERY humiliating for me. I cannot live in Canada during the 6 coldests months. Even in a warm home I cannot breath and talk or breath and walk I go into strokes. The M.R.I. of my brain shows 12 ruptured veins. I have a type of Vasculitis. We have managed to go out of country for 5 yrs. now but we owe $30,000 and when we return to Canada this April 25th, 2009 we will end up in bankruptcy and loose our car and all credit. I don`t expect you to pay our debt that would be UNBELEIVABLE buT I am asking for one more yr. of life please, the 2009, 6 months of out of country costs which is $5,000 this includes round trip fairs, transportation , shelter and some medical needs not covered by the court order of Colombia, South America. It is a court order under THE HUMANS RIGHT TO LIFE!!!

    PLEASE HELP ME have one more yr. of life. I am more then willing to prove I am NOT a fraud! I have many doctors reports as well as the manager at The Brain Injury Of Chatham-Kent, Michelle Suiter who is well aware of my case. Pat Hoy the M.P.P. and his secretary Charlene is also well informed and she as well has all the medical reports.

    It is very difficult to not know whether someone somewhere will help in advance of the next winter. Please help me.

    Sincerely, Leah Diaz

  • Posted By: Missylee @ 03/15/2009 5:25:51 PM

    Dear: Jessica Bennett,

    I REALLY NEED HELP. I was a volunteer worker for 25yrs. therefore to be in need and ask for help is VERY humiliating for me. I cannot live in Canada during the 6 coldests months. Even in a warm home I cannot breath and talk or breath and walk I go into strokes. The M.R.I. of my brain shows 12 ruptured veins. I have a type of Vasculitis. We have managed to go out of country for 5 yrs. now but we owe $30,000 and when we return to Canada this April 25th, 2009 we will end up in bankruptcy and loose our car and all credit. I don`t expect you to pay our debt that would be UNBELEIVABLE buT I am asking for one more yr. of life please, the 2009, 6 months of out of country costs which is $5,000 this includes round trip fairs, transportation , shelter and some medical needs not covered by the court order of Colombia, South America. It is a court order under THE HUMANS RIGHT TO LIFE!!!

    PLEASE HELP ME have one more yr. of life. I am more then willing to prove I am NOT a fraud! I have many doctors reports as well as the manager at The Brain Injury Of Chatham-Kent, Michelle Suiter who is well aware of my case. Pat Hoy the M.P.P. and his secretary Charlene is also well informed and she as well has all the medical reports.

    It is very difficult to not know whether someone somewhere will help in advance of the next winter. Please help me.

    Sincerely, Leah Diaz

  • Posted By: jackreed33 @ 03/01/2009 7:49:24 PM

    I have a bit of a problem with our medical facilities in to days time. They have a tendency ( not always ) to take advantage of people needing a cure. There ultimately looking at there bottom line and not the health of the individual. I se it day in and day out a <a href="http://www.calnarconon.org/">Narconon Vista Bay</a> what the effects are of these large pharmaceutical companies showing a "cure all " down there throats to line there pockets with profits. The AMA has so much political pull that we have little to say about the actions they take. I hope something can be done about the needs of the people and the needs of the stock holders and CEO's.

  • Posted By: jeffbcnw @ 11/25/2008 1:08:03 PM

    I am in the Health Insurance Industry. This article isn't telling the whole story of that girl. If she had a regular medical insurance policy, she wouldn't have had $40,000 in bills. Regular Medical Insurance Caps a patients liability at a certain amount. Even if she had a catastrophic plan, she still would have paid only about $10,000 out of her pocket. I'll bet she had a policy like the NASE/MEGA LIFE scams. What is not discussed is that many people complain about the cost of Health Insurance, and yet CHOOSE to go without it, yet they would never go without car insurance. How stupid is that!? Your car gets totalled and you're out $25K, but if YOU get broken the cost is FAR higher. We really DON'T have a major problem with Health Insurance in America. What we have is a problem with people's CHOICES. If you CHOOSE to buy health insurance, you then have to give up other expenses, like the daily Latte, cigarettes, eating out, movies, oh yeah, all those things that you CAN live without. Most Americans are too stupid to spend money on things like Health insurance which are really important, and give up the things that aren't. We want instant gratification, and unfortunately, unless you need it, spending money on health insurance isn't people's first priority.

    • Posted By: wwooten @ 12/15/2008 3:01:23 PM

      "Yes America, drop to your knees and give all your money to me." -The HMO's of America

  • Posted By: Marylander1 @ 11/29/2008 6:31:37 AM

    American medical system is fundamentally
    wrong. American Medical Association looks politically ttoo powerful, so it totally control not only the number of medical schools, but also arbitrally the number of medical stuents, so providing only the limitted number of medical doctors to the society. America is a typical capitalist country which allows free competition to the utmost, but what's going on in medical society in this country ? Medical expenses have become unbearable by any indivual or even this society. American exporting products have lost its competitiveness due to heavy burden of medical expenses embedded into them. Let's fix the problem !

  • Posted By: alabama1 @ 11/27/2008 6:41:52 AM

    Finally, we are beginning to see articles about the terrible problems in healthcare. This has been going on for many years and America has just refused to address this problem.
    Hospitals cannot provide uncompenstated care & not go under. AND On the On the consumer side< nobody can keep up with the tremendous cost of healthcare>
    If you do not have insurance, you pay a full retail price. And this is most often to those who do not have insurance. This is not right either.
    As long as we continue to ignore the health care or lack of it, and stick our heads in the sand, we will have untold cost in human surffering.
    Enough talk about socialised medicine, etc. Lets fix the problem!

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/27/2008 8:49:44 PM

      Did you ever attended German doctors? Werever you come - your medial history is accessible by doctor through computer, no paperwork. Come in our clinic - how many papers they ask you to fill or do by themselves? Hospitals may spare 30% on salary, if relieved themselves from tons of papers, and also reduce number of patients visits or calls.

  • Posted By: jwcolby @ 11/25/2008 10:33:07 PM

    Let's be honest here. There are literally dozens of "real reasons" that the system is in the mess it is in.

    Let's start with insurance:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance

    Insurance, in law and economics, is a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent loss. Insurance is defined as the equitable transfer of the risk of a loss, from one entity to another, in exchange for a premium, and can be thought of a guaranteed small loss to prevent a large, possibly devastating loss. An insurer is a company selling the insurance. The insurance rate is a factor used to determine the amount, called the premium, to be charged for a certain amount of insurance coverage. Risk management, the practice of appraising and controlling risk, has evolved as a discrete field of study and practice.

    Notice:

    Insurance .. can be thought of a guaranteed small loss to prevent a large, possibly devastating loss.

    Notice also:

    Risk management, the practice of appraising and controlling risk, has evolved as a discrete field of study and practice.

    Insurance STARTED as a pooling of money by a large population to pay the occasional cost. Risk management was SUPPOSE to be managing the risk to the insured! It has progressed to managing the risk to the INSURER.

    From the Wikipidia article...

    Affordable Premium. If the likelihood of an insured event is so high, or the cost of the event so large, that the resulting premium is large relative to the amount of protection offered, it is not likely that anyone will buy insurance, even if on offer.

    And THAT IS PRECISELY what has happened in America. The insurance industry has become so efficient at calculating risk that they know to within a percent or two who will cost too much, and they refuse to cover them, OR "cover them" with a premium so high that they can't afford it. RISK MANAGEMENT, but WHOSE risk management? That is no longer INSURANCE. That is the CASINO covering a sure bet. It is a slot machine where you pay your premiums and the house wins 5% to 10%, day after day, year after year. Anyone known to "beat the system" (will cost too much to insure) will be refused at the door.

    • Posted By: jwcolby @ 11/25/2008 10:37:36 PM

      OK, let???s move on to personal responsibility:

      Exercise, portion control, thinking for yourself? Yes, we individual consumers really do have a responsibility in this mess as well.

      There is plenty of blame. Unfortunately there are FOUR HUGE industries, all pitted AGAINST the best interests of the individual consumer. If you were to stay healthy, the medical industry would have much less work. If you were to eat correctly and responsibly, the food industry would sell a lot less very profitable (but unhealthy) food. If "lottery lawsuits" were controlled, the Litigation industry would make a ton less money. If all of the above happened, the insurance business would have much less business. Who wins if we stay healthy?

      And finally... let's move on to the political industry:

      Who pays to get the politicians elected? How about... the food industry, the medical industry, the litigation industry and the insurance industry (and just about every other industry as well). The entire system is broken, from top to bottom.

      Unfortunately there is no fixing it. The "system" is already crashing. Costs are now rising so fast that there will be no medical insurance in about 10 more years. The insurers will not take risks, and they will just move on to some other industry. Medical insurance is on its last legs.

      Lottery lawsuits are driving malpractice insurance through the roof, and without insurance to pay the lawsuits, the medical industry is already starting to shut down. There are now parts of the country where you just about cannot find an obstetrician (a high lawsuit practice) because malpractice insurance is so high that they can't stay in business. Without insurance, the doctors cannot prevent the lottery lawsuit from taking their homes, cars and investment accounts.

      Fewer doctors, fewer people with medical insurance, higher costs, more lawsuits, fewer people with medical insurance, higher costs, fewer doctors, higher costs, higher insurance premiums, fewer people with medical insurance. Etc. ad nasium.

      But of course, ask any one of those industries who is to blame and watch the finger pointing!!!

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/26/2008 4:46:29 PM

        Why others countries restrict medical lawsuits and we don't? Who resisted it? Mostly Democrats with their huma rights arguments. Ironically, because of it the human right to live is endagered, and it is their poor voters who suffer the most.

    • Posted By: jwcolby @ 11/25/2008 10:36:02 PM

      Let's move on to the medical industry:

      The doctors police themselves. Bad doctors are virtually never penalized for mistakes, almost never lose their licenses for behavior that merits it. Guess what is there to protect them... uh huh, MALPRACTICE insurance. Guess who can calculate the odds of having to pay out on an insured doctor... the Insurers. Guess who pays the malpractice insurance... the insured and uninsured consumers of the medical system.

      Let's move on to the food industry. Did you know that there was almost no obesity until the creation of refined carbohydrates? Refined flour and sugar! That occurred in the early 1800s. before that food was pretty hard to digest, actually required chewing! Imagine that. Ever seen the "food pyramid" (which BTW has been thoroughly discredited in the last 20 years)? How about 10 slices of bread a day, cereal, pasta, etc. That was supposed to be 60% of your diet. For over half a century that "food pyramid" has been preached to us by the food industry and the doctors. Hmmmm...

      And how about portion control? Let's "giant size" that meal for only a dollar more!

    • Posted By: jwcolby @ 11/25/2008 10:34:23 PM

      Let's move on to the legal system:

      There is now a common legal term - "lottery lawsuits". One person sues, receives a hundred million dollars for "pain and suffering". The lawyers take 40% off the top. Like the insurers, the lawyers know how to calculate the odds of winning and by and large will not take lawsuits that they are likely to lose. One claimant wins 60 million; the law firm wins 40 million dollars. Much of the time, the Insurers don't even contest, it is cheaper to pay, and in fact the insurers BUY INSURANCE against being sued!!!. So the other INSURED people lose because they have to pay for uncontested lawsuits.

  • Posted By: ewalcuttbrown @ 11/25/2008 8:21:48 PM

    Thank you, BigHappy... you are the ONLY one today who has taken the daily struggle of those who are sick WITH insurance into account... It's not easy... and the system is a mess from top to bottom. I am highly educated with what would be considered highly impressive professional credentials, and yet, I am in this mess, with everyone else. It does make me more understanding. I hope lawmakers are reading what we have all shared today... some are self-pitying, hostile and ignorant, but most of us have really been through it, despite all our best, most responsible efforts. Happy Thansksgiving!

  • Posted By: ewalcuttbrown @ 11/25/2008 7:49:20 PM

    BigHappy... must be nice to think it's all so simple... and other countries HAVEN'T sorted it all out, as you mistakenly believe. Yes, there are things that can and should be donem but those of us who have fallen into the health trap are ill, doing the best we can, and are not whining... we are trying to stay alive and receive care. We are too sick to do the work you are talking about... maybe YOU will step up.. since things seem so simple to you, and help those of us with insurance and life threatening illnesses out.... Don't attack those of us who are worn down from fighting the system, trying to make things better.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/25/2008 8:12:46 PM

      I understand your pain, sorry. But something must be done before it is too late for several other people. I understand, it does not have simple solution, but we have to start from something. We should not vote for any hypocrites from both parties who tells us about buying insurances for everybody, or medical taz credits, and so on,. without reducing medical costs pe patient.

  • Posted By: ewalcuttbrown @ 11/25/2008 7:41:59 PM

    We also have found doctors and hospitals usually unwilling to negotiate costs. Pharmacetutical companies have been unable to provde my rare cancer drug at a reduced cost, so I go without. And so many billing errors have been made that my husband, with all his transplant bills, al though he finally paid them all, found his credit damaged. If the billing departments had done their jobs correctly, things would've been resolved and they would have been paid on time. Instead of correcting the problems, they simply turned him over to collections. It's nice to think that this is a perfect world and people do their jobs correctly, but that is not the case.

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/25/2008 7:38:43 PM

    I am surprized you all complain and do not discuss how level our health care cost with others civilized countries. If EU doctors have 2-3 times less - something MUST be done that ours received the same salary. There can be wide sprctrum of measures, srarting with mandatory reducing medical staff salary in Federal and States-sponsored hospitals (obviously it will require also refuce their liabilities to mostly frivolous lawsuits) till to various tax insentives to low-cost insurances or forbidding medical insurances altogether. I repeat, there are countries which were able to solve this problem, why we do not follow their example? Whining without uncovering root cause will not help, leave this to Congress and Obama.

  • Posted By: ewalcuttbrown @ 11/25/2008 7:29:31 PM

    One more thing, Ms Rutlege... my husband and I had long careers with a major international corporation, both retired early due to our illnesses.. I wish we COULD get off our butts and get back to work... sure would beat our health issues! We would LOVE to be able to work again! We would love even more not to have cancer and pulmonary fibrosis.... We are proof that these financial health problems, can happen to anyone... even little you, with your myopic, self-important view of life.

  • Posted By: ewalcuttbrown @ 11/25/2008 7:09:07 PM

    Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Cancer drugs are astronomical and many of us simply have to decline treatment , having exhausted our savings, etc, even with "good" insurance. My husband and I spent over $22,000 for his transplant durgs and his care and treatment. Many people with insurance, who are trying to figure out how to make it all work, simply get to the point, of having to turn down treatment. Much of what you say is true, but you are missing most of the point of the individiuals who have posted here today. Until you have walked in our shoes, don't say we're looking for handouts. We're trying to stay alive and off the streets, and we have insurance. We have accepted responsiblity. I'm sorry you find our circumstances of life threatning illnesses "sickening." I can only hope you don't find yourself in such a situation through no fault of your own, There has been a remarkable amount of ignorance and mean-spiritedness here today... but you are one of the most ignorant and unkindest of all. Turning down cancer drugs for my stage III cancer is not something I would ever come to. I'm glad you find our situations so "amusing."

  • Posted By: erutledge @ 11/25/2008 6:36:25 PM

    I have been sitting here reading the posts and I find them rather amusing, most are blaming the high prices of healthcare services and the salaries of the doctors for debt. Hospitals provide payment plans and lower rates for non-insured patients, and if it is a "medical emergency" the patient will be treated, there are federal laws that regulate this. The real reason for the high costs of healthcare are due to so many people abusing the system, using hospital services for a free clinic instead of going to a doctor, who also offers lower rates for the un-insured, but that money is due at the time of service. Many patients know that they are not required to pay at the time of service unless it is an elective procedure, but if people would accept responsibility and actually pay for the services they receive instead of avoiding the bill, then the costs would decline. I am not a doctor or even a nurse, but the comment about lowering the salaries of the doctors, that is someone who is ignorant. I think that if you want to complain about what doctors make you should go through medical school and you should have to deal with what they deal with on a daily basis and then you can complain, they watching children die and they can't prevent it, they deal with ungrateful families that want to sue over anything, they deal with the stress of major auto accidents or gunshot victims, they deal with patients that know everything about healthcare due to internet services and self diagnosing themselves, or the best, patients that abuse the system to try to get their drugs to sell on the street to our children. I know that healthcare is expensive, I have to pay for it myself and I am a single mother of 2 small children making little more that minimum wage, but I have accepted responsibility for myself and my family and I pay for what I receive, it is sickening to see this country constantly looking for a "free" handout, get up off of your sorry behinds and get a job, if you are really sick then there is healthcare available.

  • Posted By: tuffy777 @ 11/25/2008 5:45:47 PM

    I blame government regulation and the red tape of insurance forms for most of the problems. Hospitals and doctors spend too much on administraton and too little on the actual caregivers.

  • Posted By: jad1181 @ 11/25/2008 5:42:46 PM

    While Mrs. McNamara's story is tragic, I have some questions for this family. When she and her husband "decided" to retire at age 55, what was their plan for covering health care until Medicare? Is it reasonable to say that if they could not afford health insurance or had trouble buying it, that maybe one of them should still be working for benefits? I'm 50 and there is no way I can cover all of my "bases" to retire at 55 including health care. If many Americans think that "real reform" means that they will wake up sometime in 2009 to "guaranteed", "full", "quality", and "affordable" health care that will not cost them the other things they want to do with their lives, better to stay asleep. The above adjectives to describle ideal health care delivery for everyone will require enormous sacrifice from every working and retired American ( including postponing retirement for most of us because of the added tax bite it will require) Mrs. McNamara may also have to wait a considerable while longer than she did for her first surgery with an explosion in demand for health care, and with hospitals, physicians, researchers, biotechnicians making far less money than before this revoloution, the precision and success rates of future surgical procedures and cures will certainly diminish over time for America ( God help the rest of the planet relying on America for health care innovation)
    So my fellow Americans, if recent history hasn't taught you yet, start saving lots more money! You will need it no matter where "Real Reform" takes us. Regardless, best of luck Mrs. McNamara. I'm sure you are a very nice lady.

  • Posted By: nightowl52 @ 11/25/2008 8:32:33 AM

    I work for a collection agency. It is not "dirty work" to collect on bills that are owed. Yes, there are patients with medical bills that can not pay them but there are also plenty of people who owe these bills and can easily pay. Most of our medical clients wait a year before sending bills to us for collection on a commission basis. They also ask us to wait six months before we place any account on a credit report. Many times, collectors are told that a paient is going to ask for financial assistance but these people aren't willing to work with the hospital to get it.

    • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 9:32:39 AM

      QUESTION !

      How do you know who can afford to pay and who can't afford to pay ?

      Goverment spys ? Access to banking records ? Crystal Ball ? Gift of reading others mind ?

      You should know that many wait to hear from insurance company first.

      What will they pay ? What do I owe ?

      Perhaps you want to be paid twice ?

      • Posted By: nightowl52 @ 11/25/2008 10:00:14 AM

        We know they can afford to pay because of credits reports. Also sometimes patients come into our office to pay a bill. When someone is driving an expensive car, wearing expensive clothes and jewlery, have a fancy cell phone, look like they just had their hair done at a salon, well I get the impression they can pay their $75.00 bill that has been in collection for six months. The woman came in to complain that it took us more than a day to send her a paid-in-full letter. I had to explain that our electric went out the day before so we couldn't type it and fax it to her.

        • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 10:11:27 AM

          You HAVE ACCESS TO OUR CREDIT REPORTS ?

          YOU HAVE SPIES IN THE PARKING LOT ?

          YOU JUDGE A PERSON BY THEIR COVER ?

          YOU CAN'T WRITE ?

          I SEE !

          • Posted By: nightowl52 @ 11/25/2008 11:38:28 AM

            Your snide remarks and comparing HItler to Bill and Hillary Clinton is "tired and old."

            • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 2:58:15 PM

              I AM NEVER TO " TIRED OR OLD " THAT I CAN'T SPEAK OF WITCH HILLARY OR ADULTEROUS WEE WEE WILLIE , USING SNIDE REMARKS.

              OR, WERE YOU DEFENDING ADOLPH HITLER ?

              • Posted By: nightowl52 @ 11/25/2008 5:00:06 PM

                When was Hillary ever not nice to you? Is Bill the only man who ever committed adultery? No Republicans ever did? You forgot David Vittner, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giulani?

                • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 5:17:22 PM

                  IF YOU LIKE THEM YOU MAY BE LIKE THEM.

                  ARE YOU POND SCUM TOO ?

    • Posted By: cantfigureitout @ 11/25/2008 12:46:56 PM

      your job is one of the most despicable and low life job in this country.

      • Posted By: nightowl52 @ 11/25/2008 2:13:46 PM

        Oh really! Have you ever held this job? Our company has many different clients, not just medical ones. Do you feel it is okay to run up a huge telephone bill by making lots of calls to other countries and not pay the bill? Is it okay to get a credit card from a company, order lots of clothes or DVDs, etc. and not pay the bill? Are the people who work at telephone or clothing or publishing companies despicable, too?

  • Posted By: amitrovich @ 11/25/2008 5:12:30 PM

    If the US would open up the medical profession to immigration, it wouldn't get such inflation in medical care costs. Doctors and medical personnel should make good incomes, but let's look at it honestly - their pay is so high that if they are reduced by 20%, nothing major will happen. And that's enough to cover all bad debt and cover the uninsured. That can be achieved only with increased labor supply, which US can't do without immigration. There's a fairly simple solution to the over-hiped medical cost problem.

  • Posted By: melissa2929 @ 11/25/2008 11:55:17 AM

    Maybe you shouldn't be fed William C DeMouth! You seem to be a spawn yourself of undesirable genetic material. Was your father by any chance Adolph Hitler?

    • Posted By: Willian C DeMuth @ 11/25/2008 12:06:32 PM


      Spend your whole existence screaming about the needs of the unborn while you and your absurd religion ignore the needs of the living.

      Until you clowns can come up with a way to feeds the billions we already have, your indoctrinated babbling defense of the unborn leaves many of us laughing at you.

      If someone wants to murder their offspring, not only should it be permitted, it should be subsidized with tax money.

      An abortion is ultimately far cheaper for society than the cost of another inmate, drug addict or welfare mooch.

      • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 5:11:39 PM

        I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED.

  • Posted By: Mike McDermott @ 11/25/2008 2:21:46 PM

    I don't buy this article. I've asked countless news media to come to Grand Island, Nebraska and see how a hospital has built a $70+million "addition" that turned out to be a "new hospital" and replaced a 30 year old hospital that wasn't even at it's capacity yet. These people paid for it out of their own pocket. How can that be? If it had been voted on, it would never have passed. In essence, a 10 member board was able to spend this kind of money without the public's consent. If I'm to believe this article, hospitals are broke. How can a town of 40,000 people in the middle of the plains come up with this kind of money in this era? Someone's not telling the truth.

    • Posted By: jwcolby @ 11/25/2008 3:58:41 PM

      No one ever said the medical industry (and the insurers) don't make money. What they said is that they are having to tighten the screws even further on their clients to continue making money.

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