The Other Credit Crunch

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  • Posted By: harvSr @ 11/25/2008 11:59:08 AM

    If inflation for everything else was the same as healthcare the Feds would have reacted long ago, but they have acted like nothing is going on. With that kind of inflation a loaf of bread would cost $25, but if we had bread insurance and our co-pay was $2.00 who would care?

  • Posted By: newsweek456 @ 11/25/2008 7:18:03 AM

    Oh boo hoo doctors make too much. How about you go through 8 years of school + residency and then tell me you're overpaid. Yeah, thought so.

    • Posted By: cantfigureitout @ 11/25/2008 11:32:07 AM

      School teachers go thru more scooling than that and make a fifth of what a Dr. makes, so that argument is getting old.

  • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 11:01:00 AM

    TRUE STORY !

    MY CHILD IS IN HOSPITAL.

    HER NURSE STICKS THE NEEDLE FROM MY KIDS IV INTO HERSELF , THEN REASSERTS IT BACK INTO MY KID IV LINE.

    I FIND OUT LATER; WHEN, THEY WANT TO CHECK MY KID FOR AIDS.

    LATER I GET BIG BILL FOR IV TEST.

    I ASK HEAD OF NURSING DEPARTMENT TO SEND OUT MEMO , REMINDING NURSES TO DISCARD CONTAMINATED ITEMS. THE WOMAN REFUSES TO DO SO.

    SIOUX VALLEY HOSPITAL in SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA.

    NOW RENAMED SANFORD HOSPITAL ( AFTER BIG DONATION ).

    RUN LIKE A BUSINESS BY A RICH DICK.

  • Posted By: hot hands @ 11/25/2008 9:10:16 AM

    I really think the only ones not complaining are the insurance companies, they screw the patients, they screw the providers....if we took them and their admin. costs out of the loop how many millions would be saved? The CEO's of these companies make huge sums of money, while the insured argue for their benefits, it's sick.....and physicians deserve to be well paid, it's pretty sad when an insurance exec makes 15x what the physician does.....

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 11/24/2008 8:43:55 PM

    In fact, this is the biggest USA problem, because USA helth care costs 3-5times more than in Europe (10 times more than in Israel, where health care quality is proven to be the best in the world). There are several steps to make - reduce doctors liability, probably foirbid medical insurance for outpatient care, etc. Currently not Obama neither GOP are up to this task.

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 7:31:52 AM

      Other countries do what the USA refuses to to which is limit access and services. We have a limited amout of capital to spend on healthcare and it needs to be used wisely. We could pay for all the uninsured if we would do two things: 1. No more use of the hospital for patients older than 90. 2. Stop admitting patients with atpyical chest pain for observation (malpractice defense).

      • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 10:37:10 AM

        IDEA !

        Make everyone enter military service afer reirement.

        Kill them off ; rather, then our youth.

        HAPPY NOW !

      • Posted By: danirn5 @ 11/25/2008 8:03:02 AM

        Ok Billy, you are a little burned out. Not that I blame you, however. Really we need to make hospice care a standard part of conversation in hospitals. Aside from the money spent, what do we accomplish putting our elderly through countless tests, painful and uncomfortable procedures? Not much, when 75% of those treated go on to die anyway. Of course we do this for the miniscule chance that the loved one in the bed will defy the odds and be the person they were before the stroke, broken hip, etc. etc.
        We need to, at least, start having the conversations in a reality based format and stop letting patients and families fear of death, threat of lawsuit, keep us in a futile and tortuous plan of care.

        • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 8:21:37 AM

          We need to do what other counties do. Realize we can't spend 20+of the GDP on healthcare. Understand there is a limited amount of capital and resources that must be utilized in the most effiecent manner. These are difficult moral and ethical issues that must be addressed. Hospice care-yes. We spend billions to keep elderly grandmas with dementia alive in the ICU so they can be sent back the nursing home when they have no quality of life???? Lets use those dollars to provide prenatal care and insurance for the uninsured in our country.

  • Posted By: blondelogic @ 11/24/2008 9:42:50 PM

    We believe we're entitiled to healthcare. We're not. The hospitals are for-profit. I have never had health insurance and have not had medical treatment of any kind. I may die early. That's too bad. I work 50 hours a week and have nothing but an apartment and some utilities. I ain't no fortunate one.

    • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 10:33:19 AM

      HOSPITALS SHOULD HAVE SIGNS " RICH FOLK ONLY ".

      BLONDE LIKE LOGIC FAULTY.

  • Posted By: jcppsu @ 11/25/2008 7:29:51 AM

    Plymouth Colony doesn't know what he is talking about. Physicians salaries haven't changed since the 80's. My husband finished residency in 1977. We watched salaries rise with the cost of living just like everyone else but in 1988 that all stopped. From that point on the 120,000 salary for an internist went to 90,000 in the early 1990's. We are now back up to 120,000 after 20 years. My husband works two jobs. At one he makes 50.00 per hour the other he makes 75.00 per hour. It costs me 75.00 just to have my plumber walk through the door and I am sure he doesn't get called in the middle of the night asking for advice for free!
    Good luck to all of you thoughtless, ungratful people when you are sick and don't have a doctor to take care of you. With the cost of college and medical schools fewer people are going to medical school and doctors are telling their kids to find another business. They are burned out!
    If you want to find blame, look to the HMO's. Why should an HMO pay for teeth whitening and gym fees? Go ask them!

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 7:50:05 AM

      Enter Your Comment
      jcppsu is correct. Income continues to drop while overhead continues to increase. Physicians are asked to pay for the uninsured in our country to keep others taxes lower. Physicians school debt continues to rise. Unlike other business physicians can't forward increased expense to their clients. It won't be much longer before practice overhead is more than income. Physicians will soon be better off working on the assembly line with Ford.

      • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 10:21:46 AM

        NO NEED TO WORRY !

        CONGRESS WILL BAIL THEM OUT .

  • Posted By: tsshiro @ 11/25/2008 10:16:34 AM

    The Medical industry lobby is strong in Washington. This is the reason the system of medical care in the US, which does not work well and needs serious reform, is never reformed. The campaign contributions are numerous to politicians. The cost of medical care is astronomical compared with the quality of care. It needs to change and maybe this economic crisis will cause real reform, badly needed.

  • Posted By: tkinkade @ 11/25/2008 8:23:39 AM

    What is truly difficult to swallow is the skyrocketing cost of both health insurance and medical care. As a 40-year old healthy adult, who has never been hospitalized or had a single procedure done, I pay more than $3000 a year for medical coverage for myself and my equally healthy husband. Just a month ago, I had a 20-minute out-patient procedure that had me in the out-patient surgery center for just 3 hours total. My bill? $5001. So, the hospital gets $1667/hour? That breakdown is just appalling to me. Did they really need to employ 5 different people to ask me the same 50 questions prior to the surgery? It seems that some of the standard procedures of this particular hospital, prior to surgery, are simply overkill and ridiculous. I don't intend to go back.

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 8:46:24 AM

      Thinkade imagine you owned a car dealership and the government required you to give a car to anyone who came to you. Each car costs you $20,000 so you need $100,000 for 4 cars to pay you staff and overhead and to keep your doors open. The first person you see has no car buying insurance so you give him a car for free, the next person has medicaid car buying insurance so you get $10,000 for the second car, the next person has medicare so you get $15,000 for the third car. The only way you can stay open for business is by getting $75,000 for the forth car. This cost shifting is allowed by government so they don't have to increase taxes.

      • Posted By: cutter @ 11/25/2008 10:16:06 AM

        I work in a hospital, and while I agree with you that "5 different people" asking you the same question is rediculous, you must also understand that the hospital is under intense scrutiny from regulatory agencies like the Joint Commission and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services that required multiple failsafe processes to keep the patient safe, and the institutions reimbursment status open. It is these unreimbursed processes that bog up caregivers time that help increase hospital charges through the roof.

      • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 9:55:44 AM

        YOU SIR !

        ARE A NUT CASE.

  • Posted By: davreamac @ 11/25/2008 10:10:28 AM

    I agree that health care in America is messed up. About four years ago my wife got pnuemonia after a caesarean birth. I had to take her to the ER on Christmas eve morning. She was given and IV antibiotic and was better by the end of the day. The Dr wanted her to return the next day for the 2nd and last round. The second visit consisted of a nurse hanging a bag and plugging into the line that they left in from the day before. When I got the bill I found it was the same fee for both days. I talked to my companies group insurance office about what I thought was an overcharge and they basically told just paid the bills and never questioned anything. If my department paid all of our invoices without questiong them and shopping around for the most cost effective solutions we would all be out of a job. I have a friend that is a drug rep. He was telling about a Dr he knew who started a practice up and did no insurance billing whatsover. He only charged $45 for an office visit and as word got out about his reduced fees, his practice took off and he is swamped. It made me wonder how much insurance adds to the cost of healthcare.

  • Posted By: opinions-are-mine @ 11/25/2008 10:00:53 AM

    It is hard to feel sorry for a hospital system that keeps building new facilities to keep their "not-for-profit" status.

  • Posted By: knovak10 @ 11/25/2008 8:02:40 AM

    Last month my son broke his leg, went to ER. Hospital charged $300 for the internist to say it was broken and the Dt. incharge also $310.00 to say. Yes it broken on the x-ray, A blind man could see it.
    Also how does a person keep up with insurance? Ten years ago had $1000 deductable and 20% co-pay for $350/month. Now have $10000 deductable with 20% co-pay for $340/month. But my income did not go up 10 fold as self-employed.

    • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 10:00:45 AM

      Many people have horror stories.

      Yet ! What do we do about it ---------- nothing !

      Yet ! What does Congress do about it ----------nothing !

      AMERICANS complain -------- big deal.

      And the powers to be, know ---- the people well.

  • Posted By: Not_Rich @ 11/25/2008 9:39:15 AM

    With hospital admittance down 9% as the article states, and they're probably not taking into consideration dropping visits to doctors offices, the indications are plain that the cost of health care has overwhelmed the average person and they're not getting adequate treatment. What this will mean is greatly increased costs down the road as these now easily treatable conditions are left to become major problems a decade from now. Good health care is becoming something only for those who can afford it, the rich and the politicians, while becoming nothing more than basic maintenance for everyone else, perhaps to deliberately shorten our life spans as a method to reduce social security and medicare costs. In this region of the country outsourcing of jobs has devastated the lives of many middle class (now ex middle class) workers, many unemployed, those that have foundjobs work for a fraction of what theyearned before, often without benefits now. Over 50% of the children qualify for the free lunch program at the schools, lines at the food kitchens grow weekly. People neglect medical care unless it's a catastropic situation, I know my wife and I never go, she only when she absolutely has to for a renewal of her high blood pressure medication prescription. Will this lack of care shorten our lives, as with thousands around us, more than likely, but what is the alternative, bills we can't pay, losing our house? I figure living on the street or under a bridge can't be too healthy either. People are already struggling to pay increasing property taxes caused by plants and mills shuttered due to outsourcing now falling off the tax base and shifting the burden to the homeowner, health care is now a luxury. The problem will only become worse, companies continue to send Americans jobs overseas, every job outsourced becomes another unemployed or under employed American, many times with no insurance, people who can't afford to shop, can't afford to buy cars, they simply survive. Local businesses fail and no longer pay local property and business taxes, they no longer employ local people, more people unable to afford hospital bills. The middle class has been crippled, and without the working middle class the money cycle stops, money no longer flows from corporate profits to employees who spend their earnings in their local communities which returns to corporate prifits. Now, that employee is in China, Pakistan or India, his earnings are not returned to the American economy, we're slowly grinding to a halt, and hospitals (some of which also outsource their clerical work to India) are victims. Who do they think is going to be left to pay the bills? Not me.

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 9:50:56 AM

      If a company can hire someone to do a job for $7/hr why do you expect them to pay you $20/hour to do the same job? Why not learn a new skill?

  • Posted By: harvSr @ 11/25/2008 9:50:28 AM

    Went to the emergency room after my brother and his son were in a car wreck. After seeing that they were both doing well, I went to call my wife to tell her. The small black woman on the pay phone was explaining to someone that she had come to the emergency room to be treated for "the head ache she had taken" and needed them to turn the ham off, it was done. Universal healthcare?

  • Posted By: heart hopeful @ 11/25/2008 9:47:06 AM

    Medical costs with insurance are still outrageous. When a healthy, working middle class person falls unexpectantly ill and cannot work - that next meal for the family looks a whole lot better than that medical bill. I figure my insurance has paid a majority of the bill (80-90%) that my portion can wait until I have some extra cash that will not take away from my family's day to day essential living expenses. I am not talking luxuries either - $20.00/week to feed a family of 4 is not steak and lobster. As far as public assistance - you rapidly realize it is not for the public truly. Try to find resources to assist you when you have a spouse that is working despite the fact that his income is below poverty level. He can't get a better paying job because he is the one that carries the insurance for the family and with my being in heart failure we cannot very well go without it for even 1 day. And, yes, I am applying for Social Security but that can take months, even years, to get approved. In the meantime everyone has their hand out for payments. I have spent hours, days trying to get help - it is not there! I pity anyone that is in the same circumstances that I am in.

  • Posted By: drp @ 11/25/2008 8:30:46 AM

    I know a married pair of ER docs on the economic brink because of all the uncompensated care Texas law requires them to provide. The immediate problem is the $150K each in education loans they owe. Perhaps loan-forgiveness in return for uncompensated care would be a first step.

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 9:43:34 AM

      The ER has become the free health clinic in our country. It's cheaper for government to require hospital ER to see everyone that walks in the door then to set up free clinics in the commmunity.

    • Posted By: billymd @ 11/25/2008 9:16:39 AM

      Enter Your CommentER doctors do bear the brunt of the burden of free care to the uninsured.

  • Posted By: cferg @ 11/25/2008 9:24:58 AM

    I work in the health field and what most people don't know is that a lot of the tests done while you are there are not for the promblem you came in for. Dr.s are now trying to cover themselves from a potential law suits and the patient pays the price. Insurance companies will only cover tests and procedures that are related to the problem you present with unfortunatly, Dr.s today have seem to have not went in to the profession as a calling, just for the money. If Dr.s were resposible for paying for the unnessary tests they order they might have to become better Dr.s and not have to worry about being sued and the patient would have less of a burden in medical bills.Dr.s always get paid off the top regardless of how well they do there job.There are a lot of great Dr.s out there, you just need to take the time to look for them.

  • Posted By: HeatherJohnson @ 11/25/2008 9:18:44 AM

    The complete fact is that the medical profession is a joke. What other profession can "practice" their craft and then get paid over and over again for never solving a problem?? I realize that the body is complex but the charges are insane. Unfortunately with greed being the driving force behind the AMA being in bed with pharmaceuticals we are going to have this. We are one of the luckiest countries in the world and yet we all have lived beyond our means, taken lots for granted and suffer from entitlement. Why do we think we deserve any more than those suffering in third world countries? They didn't do anything to deserve their conditions?? We just happen to be lucky to have been born here....Maybe people need to start getting active and proactive and quit waiting for others to solve these problems.. We've been complacent for too long....
    If you aren't noticing all of this, bailouts, etc. are just the beginning of the snowball effect. It's time to wake up America.....And I have no doubt that our government is quite okay with us becoming dependent on them. Start praying...God is truly the only one who can help us.

  • Posted By: HeatherJohnson @ 11/25/2008 9:15:57 AM

    The complete fact is that the medical profession is a joke. What other profession can "practice" their craft and then get paid over and over again for never solving a problem?? I realize that the body is complex but the charges are insane. Unfortunately with greed being the driving force behind the AMA being in bed with pharmaceuticals we are going to have this. We are one of the luckiest countries in the world and yet we all have lived beyond our means, taken lots for granted and suffer from entitlement. Why do we think we deserve any more than those suffering in third world countries? They didn't do anything to deserve their conditions?? We just happen to be lucky to have been born here....Maybe people need to start getting active and proactive and quit waiting for others to solve these problems.. We've been complacent for too long....
    If you aren't noticing all of this, bailouts, etc. are just the beginning of the snowball effect. It's time to wake up America.....And I have no doubt that our government is quite okay with us becoming dependent on them. Start praying...God is truly the only one who can help us.

  • Posted By: Capricorn13 @ 11/25/2008 9:04:07 AM

    Hoispitals are supposedly non-profit organizations. I have my years mammogram and am charged for the test, the doctor, the staff member who performed it and then of course, the oncologist who reads it. I have BC/BS and Medicare. Yet, I still am bill personally for over $200.00 each time. Yet, these two well known hospitals in Michigan, Royal Oak and Troy not mentioning the name have built the most ooutrageous additions, upon additions. At the Troy Hospital they have built a bridge spanning two counties so patients and doctors can get from the hospital to the medical building, the hospital is in Oakland County, the medical building in Macomb County. It seems to me if they wanted to cut cost they do not have to have so much giner bread trimmings on and in the buildings. The same is true with my physician. There use to be as many as 12 doctors in this practice, now two. And the odd thing is that each doctor charges their own set fees. Of course, the one I get is more expensive, than the other. The other a M. D. and owns the practice, mine an Osteopath and has been there lesser years. What ever happened to the good old doctor like Dr. Welby who use to make house calls and the patient was a person with a name, not just a number. I pray for the senior citizens (my spouse and I are in our 70's) who do not have insurance and have to decide if they would rather eat or buy their meds. Sorry situation for anyone who does not have insurance. I am blessed I have my insurance through my pension having worked 32 years as an educational secretary and it covers my spouse. Thank God with all the medical problems he has. I hope there is some answer for the uninsured and those who cannot afford medicine. It is so sad.

    • Posted By: tired and old @ 11/25/2008 9:10:50 AM

      You must be overjoyed when you see big business get bailouts------------- NOT !

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