The Mayhem in Mumbai

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  • Posted By: robertkjjj @ 11/27/2008 1:07:39 PM

    Liberals are the only people on earth who need to personally lose a loved one to terrorism in order to place the blame for terror where it belongs: directly on the heads of the people who commit the crimes. Nobody???no person or government-- 'causes' a person to become a mass-murdering sociopathic killer. People are responsible for their own actions, regardless of where they were born, their culture, or their so-called religion. Until the majority of the world wakes up and recognizes radical Islam for the cancer it is, these attacks will continue. I fear we really need another 9-11, times 10, to give the world this wake-up call.

  • Posted By: valwayne @ 11/27/2008 12:56:22 PM

    I spent 6 months in India a few years ago, mostly in Chennai, with only a visit to Mumbai. However, you could feel the energy and excitement of country on the rise, especially in Mumbai. India is truly a great nation with a great people and the United States should do all it can to help them. Both to defeat these terrorist and to maintain the kind of friendship that the worlds two largest democracies should have with each other. My condolences to my friends in India and the families of all who were killed or injured.

  • Posted By: fuzzytruthseker @ 11/27/2008 7:17:37 AM

    Zakaria's analysis is probably correct that this must be the work of an outside group that exploits the huge substratum of domestic discontent (including Kashmir but also a large swath of the Muslim population who feel excluded from the recent boom) and involves many more domestic Muslims who actually carried out the operation rather than outsiders.

    I am afraid that, much as i loathe the BJP, the leadership of BJP has been right in criticizing Manmohan Singh's government of being too soft in its fight against terrorism. Amore impactful approach is needed that would involve, in the short term, much heavier use of muscular couter-terrorist measures, including, as Zakaria says, 'fortress-like' control of movements into strategic/sensitive places, the involvement of community organisers in the frequent control of suspect individuals, and a broad, powerful, public realtions programme that the government will, once the short-term effort at rooting out extremism has succeeded, look more sympathetically into Muslim and other vulnerable groups' grievances and seek to open up opportunities for them that would require both inputs from them and financial/logistical support and collaboration from friendly Islamic countries that have recently accumulated large foreign exchange reserves.

    Humanity stands to gain a lot from such a comprehensive, forceful and internationally-coordinated approach, and any ***-footing about 'the largest democracy being resilient and open' to justify half-ay measures should be dispelled immediately.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 11/27/2008 12:30:07 PM

      Wonderful post. I agree wholeheartedly.

      • Posted By: Nins @ 11/27/2008 12:45:01 PM

        I agree with you, Vigil. FuzzyTruthSeeker seems to have hit on the real clear truth. A strong but non-violent protective response, coupled with a complete exploration of the Muslim's actual grievances would alleviate both the reach of terrorism and the seeding ground of malcontent in which they harvest their recruits.

        I hope that India and the world can follow some kind of coordinated plan in this direction.

        And my heart goes out to the people in Mumbai. It is so sad.

  • Posted By: PSHARMA @ 11/27/2008 6:09:34 AM

    India cannot solve terrorism problem. Here are the reasons why/
    India has over a billion people, there is no national ID for the citizens. More than 70% live in rural areas, poor people who migrate to cities live in crowded slums, or shacks.
    The borders with Nepal, Bangladesh are porous. The border with Pakistan is watched vigorously but terrorists find a way to sneak in through broken fences, unchecked areas, corrupt/colluding border patrol.
    No one knows who come and goes out of country from places other than official ports of entry and exit. How can intelligence be gathered on such a large number and that too when new recruits of terrorists or groups are born every day.


    The police is corrupt and often is to be avoided unless one is looking for trouble. They are supposed to be into law enforcement but are poorly trained, low paid and lack motivation unless they can benefit somehow.

    Politicians give lip service to national security and finishing of terrorism every time such incidents occur but are busy all the time after Machiavellian power plays and pelf only. Concern for citizens is a luxury item probably at the bottom of their list.

    The common citizen does not keep an eye on who comes and goes in their neighbor hood from day to day. There are just too many people to notice. Most people break laws in traffic or other kinds every day so I don't expect them to be good follower of any government regulations to keep check on terrorism. In fact, most people see metal detector gates at any public building or traffic barriers on the road as an annoyance and try to avoid them by going around if possible.

    Metal detector gates in most places either don't work or keep buzzing yet the security personnel standing there are hardly interested in frisking you and are bored on the job. Airports, VIP residences and defense cantonments probably have the safest checks in the country.

    With in few months of any terrorist attack, and we have had plenty of them this year, most security precautions become lax again and people go about their business as if nothing had happened. Regulations are ignored or simply not enforced. That is why terrorists strike every few months with so much impunity.

    Poverty, backwardness, lack of education and jihad indoctrination among Muslim youths in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh create a fertile recruiting ground for the purveyors of terror. Different groups have different motivation for causing havoc in India, and Pakistan or targeting American interests but the breeding grounds and the philosophy guiding them is common.


    All these aforementioned causes create a perfect environment for terrorist groups to hatch new plans and execute every few months with no one to foil it.

    • Posted By: Impressed citizen @ 11/27/2008 12:38:00 PM

      I suppose, there is great amount of truth in what this commentator (PSHARMA) writes. There is a "great divide" between the rich (less than 10% of population) and poor in India. 70%+ of the Indians still live in villages and with the so called Indian Economic boom their lot hasn't been improved; in fact, it has worsened over the past 10-15 years. So also are there problems with the highly corrupt politicians and law enforcement agencies in India. It appears, India is number 2 or 3 in its highest level of corruption. These politicians do only lip-service only that is sickening, only for their own advantages...Added to all this, the highly unstable neighboring countries (both Pakistan and Bangladesh) and the "out-moded religious fanaticism" of Moslims as well to "some extent to Hindu Indians" is another factor that fuels the discard and ignites these flames of hatred in the "name of a "higher purpose".... Even in this Technologically Advanced age "we the humans" are being fooled by the 'supersticious religious belief systems and ideocities. Reasoning takes a back seat when it comes to religion! -- I mean, No religion is an exception in this regard - I read this tendency even in this country.. There are No simple solution to these problem, because we do not want to address them seriously and boldly - by attempting to both irradicating the abject poverty on one hand and Educating majority on the other hand so that this "stupid religiousities" hold less of a grip over this world.

  • Posted By: DILBAG RAI @ 11/27/2008 12:31:32 PM

    Terrorists are the worst enemies of the humanity.Today,s attack in the Mumbai hotels by the terrorists coming from Karachi of Pakistan has resulted in loss of 101 innocent lives and injuries to more than 300 people.
    Pakistan has become the most fertile land where crops of terrorism are harvested in abundance to distribute them throughout the world.
    USA, had flown in to a rage when its twin towers of the WTC were collapsed on 9/11 and it razed to the ground Afganistan and Iraq to nab the terrorists responsible and had pledged to end the terrorism in the world. Alas nothing has been done to control Pakistan which has become the training centre of terrorism. US should practice what it preaches. It is true that only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches. America should come forward and take a lead to contain it with an iron fist . It should help those countries which are becoming the soft targets of the henious crimes commited by the enemies of the humanity.
    Dilbag Rai. Chandigarh India

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 11/27/2008 2:39:14 AM

    Zakaria does not know what he is talking about. He is lost in a fog that he does not understand. Look to Ahmed Rashid [''Taliban''] for a more cogent response as the days go forward and more is eventually known.

    My bet?[ which is admittedly no more certain than Zakarias], These guys are Pak in origin,perhaps outside players within the country using this as a launchpad,certainly,al Qaeda -linked.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 11/27/2008 12:23:38 PM

      Lee, Al-Qaeda never hesitates to claim responsibility for its attacks, often releasing videotapes concurrently and simultaneously with them. They haven't said a word about this AFAIK. And as far as Pakistani/Indian goes - I'm not even sure the stated nationality is relevant, in someplace like Kashmir. The lines blur, and religion and extremism become defining markers, not international borders, which become spongy and porous in those reasons.

      I seem to remember you also insisted Saddam's "WMDS" are "buried in the sands of Syria somewhere", right?

      To me, your post sounds like more of the "Islamic terrorists are all the same" philosophy, which is utterly wrong, and far from the key to resolving these conflicts.

  • Posted By: anantni @ 11/27/2008 12:20:46 PM

    You may want to hear the gloating statements made by the perpetrators (Mr Sahadullah, Imran Baber) [available on rediff.com]; Their urdu accent appears similar to what one hears spoken in Pakistan's Northwestern provinces . It is entirely plausible that Pakistan's military establishment is NOT behind this though their rogue intelligenence agency (ISI) cannot be ruled out

    Blaming Indian muslim's for this attack is very irresponsible and will only threaten that community with harsh reprisals

  • Posted By: robertkjjj @ 11/27/2008 11:23:50 AM

    fiber artist , all you did was name tiny and insignificant groups of the past(KKK, IRA). All your examples are either closed down, or even when they were active they had very, very low body counts and small attacks. Nothing you mentioned even comes close to the attacks abd body counts. Try this: over 5 million people killed by Muslims, in the name of Islam since 1970. Also, the Muslims are killing people NOW. You are digging thru ancient and closed past. Let's fight problems that exist NOW, rather than in the 70's.

  • Posted By: manishyt @ 11/27/2008 11:11:51 AM

    I am stunned by Fareed's "analysis". India has a huge Muslim population - one that has more participation in the democratic process than Muslims in most countries. It is true that there are Hindu Muslim tensions, but most Indian Muslims tend to be loyal to the Indian state. In virtually ALL terrorist attacks on India, we have seen an element of training, organization and orders coming from Pakistan's "ISI" intelligence services, which are an unchecked organization inside that country. Just to be sure, the ISI was responsible for the creation of the Taliban, was very involved with Al Qaeda until 9/11, and have actively been supporting Pakistani terrorist groups such as Lashkar e Toiba (LeT) - who are clearly behind these attacks. The Indian Navy has already found the ship from which speed boats were launched with gunmen. The boat was regsitered in Karachi, Pakistan. Fareed Zakaria may have personal reasons to try and blame India for these attacks (ie its anti-Muslim), and to that end Zakaria is falling into the sickening Islamic ploy of blaming the victim. But Fareed and his paranoia are irrelevant. I sense India is crossing a line here, and after suffering many attacks - may be ready to take action. Im just not sure what that action will be, but whatever it is - it needs to include the closing down of Pakistan's ISI intelligence services
    Manish Thakur

  • Posted By: robertkjjj @ 11/27/2008 11:08:29 AM

    It's outrageous and offensive that Newsweek use the headline "Making sense of India's terrorist attacks".
    There is no sense here to be made. None. Ever. These are mass murderers that obviously place no value on human life, and they need to be rooted out and killed. One may as well try to make "sense" of Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, or Hitler.

  • Posted By: drputcha @ 11/27/2008 10:56:12 AM

    At a time of national tragedy as the terrorists seize the biggest city in India, for Fareed Zakaria to say that, Muslims have not shared in the boom of India and that there is lot of discrimination, is not worthy of a great journalist. The terrorists have enough excuses to perpetrate their crimes.

  • Posted By: svengali @ 11/27/2008 10:53:04 AM

    Regarding Fareed Zakaria's comments on Muslims not being part of the current boom in India:
    The comments smell very much like the excuses given by the African American in the US who complain that institutionally the US has always discriminated against them and kept them poor and backward. Barrack Obama has exposed that lie just as numerous Indian Muslims including a former President of America and Fareed Zakaria's own family have exposed the very lie that he expounds.
    Muslims in large part are Hindu converts from the backward and poor communities. Their problems are the same as other Hindus who still belong to similar communities. There is no need to bring in religion as a crutch to explain this backwardness. While the Armed forces and State Police and Security services are not exactly over run with Muslims, under current circumstances anyone would understand.
    If you would like to have the opinion of a "Native" on Islam and its terrorist potential, you might do well to watch the videos of Wafa Sultan on the Web.

  • Posted By: fuzzytruthseker @ 11/27/2008 10:51:37 AM

    svengali @ 11/27/2008 10:40:40 AM

    Hey, svengali!

    Don't readers know you from the unceasing of the spread of your venom every where on the internet?

    No doubt Haaretz will give you a job as Columnist Emeritus, right?

  • Posted By: drputcha @ 11/27/2008 10:50:46 AM

    At a moment of unheard of tragedy as terrorists seized the city of Mumbai, for Fareed Zakaria to say that Muslim population has not shared in the boom of India and that "there is still a lot of institutional discrimination, and many remain persecuted" is not worthy of a great jurnalist. He could have reserve that comment for a scholarly essay later on.

  • Posted By: Richard Kefalos @ 11/27/2008 10:45:39 AM

    As long as the Moslems attacked, I hope they managed to get some of the American outsourcers who flock to India in order to undercut American jobs. The Indians have figured out that they need no industry to build their economy; all they need is technical schools and low-paid workers and American business will stream to their country to take advantage of the cheap labor in that 3rd world country. And now they're shocked, *shocked* to find that there are other aspects to being a 3rd world country than simply being a pool of cheap labor. If American business is concerned with their safety as they go to sell American jobs to the Indians, I suggest that they search for hires right here in America. The businesses might have to pay Americans more than Indians, but in return the recruiters get to stay at the Embassy Suites where the only menace is the occasional drunk traveling salesman in the bar. I don't care if the Moslem terrorists eviscerate the outsourcers in Bombay. As far as I'm concerned, they can burn that mother down.

  • Posted By: Common Tater @ 11/27/2008 10:45:08 AM

    One thing's clear. It's George Bush's fault.

  • Posted By: divinely speaking @ 11/27/2008 10:41:58 AM

    Zakaria seems sympathetic to Osama and Al Zawahri. The truth is Osama had released a statement that something more spectacular is going to happen in the near future.

  • Posted By: svengali @ 11/27/2008 10:40:40 AM

    While I respect Fareed Zakaria for his intellect and writings, I request readers not to give his comments credence just because he was once upon a time a "Mumbai native". How typical of writers from the Indian diaspora to claim authority on a nation they left behind long ago and visit as tourists!
    I speak from the Mumbai of this moment - right on the spot!
    The Terrorists have clearly sought out premium Western targets, even as they have indiscriminately killed all Indians who got in their way.
    Since they landed on the SOuthern COastline right at the Gateway of India, it was natural for them to attack the Taj and Oberoi Hotels rather than the northern suburban hotels of the JW Marriot or the Four Seasons. The security at these 2 Hotels is superb and the terrorists could never have entered as easily as they did the Taj and the Oberoi (with next to ZERO security). THe Oberoi Hilton is now the Oberoi Trident and was a prime target.
    They laser focused an attack on the Israeli Nariman House owned by the Jewish Chabad Movement. Even we genuine Mumbai natives were unaware of this Israeli outpost.
    At the Taj & Oberoi Hotels, they very clearly sought to identify and isolate US & UK passport holders for hostage taking even as they indiscriminately killed any and all Indians who got in their way.
    The current though is that they are trained and launched by the Taliban / Pakistani ISI combine to display their ire at the US action to stymie them.

  • Posted By: fiber artist @ 11/27/2008 9:45:33 AM

    The comment that all terrorists are Muslim - you mean like the IRA (Protestant), the ETA (Basque), the Aryan Nation (WASP), the OK city bomber, the Atlanta Olympic bomber? And, don't forget the JDL, the Greek groups in the 1970's, the KKK and the list goes on.....

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