Schumpeter is considered the father of the "creative destruction " term...
The idea of 3 losers merging in 1 or 2 winners make sense & it will probably happen...
Schumpeter is considered the father of the "creative destruction " term...
The idea of 3 losers merging in 1 or 2 winners make sense & it will probably happen...
Schumpeter was a hero. His great idea was that capital CAN be wasted if it is left in the hands of people who do not know what to do with it. Ideally, capital should flow from failed enterprises to successful enterprises. Thereby, new capital is created and the cycle continues.
This is a classic case. Detroit has clearly failed. If we give it MORE capital and let it preserve its control over the capital it has, it will continue to waste valuable American resources.
Alternatively, if it goes bankrupt, someone will buy all of those factories. The machinery might be melted down or sent to China, but it is much much more likely that some entrepreneur will say. ...Hey, I can make something with this.... It might be an Edsel or a Tucker or a DeLorean, who knows... but the price of the capital will fall until it can earn a decent return. That is a positive healthy process.
A related concept is SUPPLY CREATES ITS OWN DEMAND, which is theoretically suspect, but it says that, with all those workers and all that machinery, something is bound to happen in a positive way. The problem is the current management, current contracts, etc. , which we should not meddle with. That all has to be destroyed so that that industry can start again.
This is beginning to make me sick! In a rush, to bury the American automobile industry, we tend to forget, it was their industrial capacity, that allowed us to win WWII. Without their factories, we could be speaking German, or Japanese. These morons, that believe foreign is better, should do some REAL investigation. We rebuilt Germany! We rebuilt Japan! And now, we turn our backs on American industry? If, we ever need their machinery again, it won't be there. When we don't produce anything here anymore, who will be able to buy it? In the past, it's been "fashionable," to drive foreign. And, there was a time, when American quality was in question. But, those times are long gone. For the most part, the American vehicles best their foreign competition, in fuel economy. Americans (true Americans), have always loved the underdog! My money says, the American auto industry WILL survive. All of you foreign car drivers, can hop in your "Jap Crap," and drive straight to HELL!
your living in the past.....
jap crap hummm.....1994 Honda Civic VX 285,600 miles still gets 55-60 mph hwy 47-53 city and it drives and runs like a car with 30,000 miles its still tight all the door handles work, the dash isnt all broken and cracked, still has nice paint, the engine runs smooth and accelerates nicely, no oil leaks, no water leaks around windows and from seals etc, etc, etc, etc, When your ford focus, chevy cavalier, dodge neon, or whatever other american car can do the same then we will talk about bailouts, fixes, and maybe even a purchase until then I dont want to waste my money on junk either in a bailout or in the showroom. AND I WOULD DRIVE MY JAP CAR TO HELL CUZ I KNOW IT WILL MAKE IT AND BACK! WOOO HOOOO
also, the AC WILL be blowing cold on the way down because it still works good too.
Japanese autos are sold in the US for less than what they cost to produce. WE are subsidizing the JAPANESE auto companies everytime we buy a Honda or a Toyota. Japan in turn will not allow American cars to be sold in Japan. Maybe we should stop allowing Japanese cars here. OH WAIT!! Alabama, Georgia and Tennessee actually have given tax breaks to bring foreign automakers to their states!!
how much in tax breaks????? does it matter......Im pretty sure all those fine people in those states enjoy getting all those GOOD jobs/paychecks there. does the cost outweigh the benefit?
This is very true. I live in Alabama and we (the state of Alabama) have subsidized these foreign automakers through tax cuts galore. I am not really sure if Alabama has benefitted greatly from this yet, but I myself have deiven nothing but GM products. Contrary to much of what I have read, I have enjoyed driving GM products. In fact, I put 249,000 miles on a 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass and all I spent money on was routine maintenance. The Big 3 make quality products and spareme you nailed it with what you said.
I agree that America bashing is not only unpatriotic but wrong.
American cars are still the roomiest , most comfortable & a very good deal as value for money.
No Euro or Jap can offer true American spirit cars,like the Explorer/Expedition,or Suburban ,at those affordable prices...
America bashing? It is becoming clear that America can dish it out, but it can't take it. It has taken great care over the years to tell other countries about the importance of free trade. Only banana republics protect their industries, right? Well, now America is turning around to protect an industry that is too weak to compete.
Its not about bashing america, its about american car companies that are finally getting what they deserve for putting out such crap for many years. Who cares about roomy and whatever else that doesnt really matter, what matters is can they make a car that doesnt fall apart, breakdown, get decent gas mileage, start to rattle, paint peel off, door handle break, lock mechanism not work, engine start to knock all in two to three yearstime. At least the japs or germans think and look at what they make and say how can we make this better..........american car companies, aw hell it works dont mess with it; its good enough screw it! it will work for about two or three years. American car companies have had since the late 70's to get their $hit together.....obviously they did not learn a valuble lesson then and that is why they are in the mess they are in now the japs and germans did it to them then and are doing to them now. Help them out now....why so they can get bailed out in another few years ........not with my money.
How Dumb CAN SOME PEOPLE BE ?
Many Americans agree that foreign cars assembled in America are good value and reliable vehicles.
Some Americans think that vehicles made in America are magical.
Detroit builds expensive vehicles, pay their employees too much, and the vehicles break down to often.
I stand by my statements, I love my country, despise those who run it into the ground.
Bailouts for the rich and dumb are a waste of tax dollars, Auto makers and thei CEO's deserve nothing.
This is a copy of my letter to Senators Mitch McConnell, Bob Corker, and Mike Enzi
This letter was sent to the above Senators on 11/20/2008.
No respondence or acknowledgement to date.
Senator:
Here is a synopsis of a plan to try to save the automotive industry in North America.
Merge GM, Ford and Chrysler.
??? GM has the most and newest plants and automation.
??? Ford has a good following and has the lions??? share of the truck market
??? Chrysler is very quick to bring cars from the drawing board to the market
The strengths of the companies combined are greater as a whole than separate.
Let us take a look at Toyota. Toyota product lines are as follows:
1. Toyota
2. Lexus
3. Infinity
4. Landrover
Toyota will overtake GM in the next few years if not sooner.
The basis for the merger would be to:
A. Identify the strengths of each company
B. Identify ???PRODUCTIVE??? plants
C. Assemble more than one car (Chevy, Ford, Chrysler ) at one location. For example trucks at a Ford Assembly Plant, small to mid size cars at a current Chrysler facility, and luxury, full size cars and SUVs at GM.
A short list of the benefits would be as follows:
??? One President (and only one jet)
??? Fewer Division managers
??? Less cost in transferring finished products to distribution points
??? More utilization (productivity) at each plant
??? Consolidate to one Union contract
No matter what happens, the Union must be part of the solution. For example, basic hourly wages could be reduced by substituting bonuses paid for the performance of the company. Everyone is a ???stakeholder.???
Learn more from Toyota! Understand and implement as US version of the Toyota Production System. The Japanese learned about ???Lean and Agile??? production methods after WW2 from people like Deming and Henry Ford, among others.
The Japanese have taken over our Steel Industry our Electronics Industry and are now poised to take over World Leadership of our Automotive Industry. You guys in Washington cannot let this happen.
Creation of ???Value??? is the basis of any economy. When you build a car, or home, or a TV for that matter you create something from nothing. That is creating Value. It feeds the middle class and supports a basis for taxation. The distribution industry is notorious for low paying jobs. One of my clients at Boeing one told me in 1992 that we were losing American jobs at an alarming rate and said if we do not do something to stop it all we will have left to do is do each other???s laundry and cut each other???s hair.
The merger eliminates a considerable amount of overhead. The 100???s of millions of dollars in overhead and un-Godly bonuses adds costs but no value. I think the merger might help us be more competitive in the world market. But that might be more of a wish than a reality.
If you would like to discuss this any further I will give you my contact information. I would be glad to assist in any way I can so we can keep jobs
infinity is nissan not toyota.........try scion
landrover is not toyota .......try ford until just recently when they had to sell it to tata motors(india)
That is why you didnt hear back from them yet.....your facts were not straight, the senator didnt even get past that first part, all he saw was this guy doesnt even know who makes what , how is he gonna tell me how to solve the problem........2 minutes of research would have gotten you farther
Bad leadership, and paying for workers who haven't been working in a factory for decades are what is killing Detroit. Any accountant with a pair (man or woman) could get those businesses at least reasonably profitable within 5 years if given carte blanche. Fat cats and greedy unions are killing this industry. I do agree with lfnesbitt's comment about mass transit.
It is cheaper to make cars in Japan NOT because of cheap labor, but because of tireless elimination of waste, accidents, and inefficient practices. Universal health care and mandatory maternal and paternal leave are also true of Japan. They also train workers more and cross train them so that they do not have to lay them off and then hire and retrain people all the time. There are no strikes, but there are regular pay raises and bonuses for all workers.
I toured a Nissan plant many years ago, and it was certainly not a sweatshop. Workers are treated like the golden eggs that they are, and the highest executive at Toyota does not even earn a million dollars a year.
So saying that Japanese labor is cheap is off the mark. They get paid very well, but they are very productive.
Oh, and who is making money from charging more for Japanese cars in the US? The US government. US auto companies asked the US government to raise tariffs on Japanese imported cars. The government of course said yes, so that extra amount that you pay in tariffs DOES stay in the US. It goes to the US government. That is how a tariff works.
So, you can imagine that if the US government bails out Detroit, then Toyota, Nissan and others will actually be paying to bail out their competitors. How level of a playing field is that? That is the pathetic state of Detroit in 2008.
We are broke, we are sufering.. we NEED a blank check from the GOVERNMENT..Because even if we are broke, we can still spend 125,000,000,000 a day, per state,, for commercials,mmm,, B.S.
Spend wisly, we know what a F-150 Ford pickup and a Chevy Malibu and a Jeep are... we don't want to give you more money from our pockets,,, for your commercials...WAKE UP!!!
I wish everyone would look at the Ford plant in Brazil on youtube. We have had the technology for years and years but the Union wouldn't allow it. Let them file for bankruptcy that will allow them to deal with the UAW. Let's face it many of the jobs that are being done now should be done by robots anyways. Don't replace those who retire and give training to those who jobs will be lost to automation. I believe that the American worker is the best in the world. I used to live in Dearborn and always bought Ford's that is just what you did. When I left I saw more and more foriegn cars in the assembly plants parking lots and wondered when these same folks would be asking what had happened to their jobs. Well some 28 years later they found out.
Why not consider retooling one (or more) of the Big Three into a company that produces mass transit (buses, a new generation of streetcars, perhaps even subway trains), military (the new Humvee replacement) and fleet (taxicabs, etc.) vehicles. We desparately need the mass transit. Many of those vehicles are currently produced oversees - nothing wrong with foreign production but for lots of reasons we can use the work in the U.S. With the military and perhaps municipal govts as customers, there is a built-in market if the products are good.
Obviously this will require a lot of re-tooling of plants and workers, but with a new industry involved everything - labor contracts, executive compensation, capital structure, etc. everything will be on the table.
Why not let the strongest one (or two) survive and reorganize the other one (or two) into a company that builds mass transit, military and other fleet vehicles. For example, buses, the next generation of street cars, subway cars, hybrid taxicabs, the new Humvee replacement and other military and police vehicles, etc. Clearly we have a huge need in this country for better mass transit and many major suppliers are foreign. Making the new company the supplier of choice to the military all but guarantees it a market. It will require major re-tooling and new wage and benefit agreements but so will any other viable solution. At least this way, everything is on the table, including executive compensation, capital structure, etc.
To anyone in the posting's who have enought nerve to post that this country sucks, should move. If you don't like what this country stands for then move. If you think this country is on a level playing field with manufacturing, you are mistaken. We have far more standards and regulations to follow, other countries labor and enviroment standards don't even exist. If you think that the auto industry, or UAW has been on the wrong path, you are right. If you think letting the auto industry fail is good, your wrong. We have to stand up and fight as a whole. Not lay down and get taken over. Would we have won WWII with that mentality. This country has alot to still offer.
Based on what I read regarding comparative direct and indirect labor costs it certainly seems as though the Big 3 are doomed...period. The WSJ had an article today highlighting a $29/hr difference in employee benefit cost per worker verses the Japanese workers (or Japanese owned US plant equivalent) Good luck. The existing UAW contracts are history. Combining all three might work if the worker wage package contracts are brought in line with the Japanese. Otherwise all you are doing is buying a little time and that is the main difference between an auto bailout and a Wall Street bailout. The Wall Street bailout will be expensive in money and in human terms but in the end IT WILL WORK.
Let the big oil companies bail them out! There has been so much of the United States' taxpayer being held hostage by this collusion that makes most of us sick. They had an energy meeting, did they not? Oh, I forgot; they wanted to keep that and their plans to start a war to destabilize oil so that they could rake in billions of dollars in profits, all on the blood of our children. You don't hear a word about the labor contracts of AIG and their lightening fast bail-out; but it seems that every other email is hawking about the auto workers' contract, which is LOWER. It just depends on who you know that can effectively lie for you and deceive the taxpayer/voter. Friends in LOW places, friends in HIGH places, all of them work together. We need less of a no-bid contract regime and more of an administration that is less interested in the LAST BIG MONEY GRAB of the trash that has been leading this country. If we gave the bailouts to the United States citizens, they could pay their bills, and the problem would go away. That is too easy, and it doesn't let the corporate thieves make off with the money grab. It would also eliminate the dividends to those who were gambling in the stock market. They are a main problem, but they want everyone else to pay for their mistakes, and so they take no loss. Stick it to the little guy......that is the real result of the "trickle-down" hoax. That crap has never worked, and they just keep trying it. It only benefits the guy who is wealthy enough to buy politicians. Jerks, all of them.
If the car companies are allowed to fail, you will see cities, townships, school districts, and even the state of Michigan declare bankruptcy. The implications will be wide and deep. Its time to stop. There is enough suffering already. If you want to have another Appalachia, there would be no better plan than to let the car companies go broke. You will see maybe 2 million boarded up homes in Michigan alone. Remember, the industrial midwest has already been hollowed out by NAFTA and is already hurting bad. And nobody hates GM management more than I do, but enough is enough. Its time to come up with a sustainable plan, which can be done, rather than let the whole thing go down the tubes.
This is a sham. The auto workers contracts are not as high as AIG, but none of you republican hypocrits mentioned that when.......oh, did they vote republican? The auto workers' contract are in disfavor because they vote Democratic. As for clunkers, Ford's Mercury beat Lexus in the dependability poll, and Lincoln beat Toyota. Ford has the edge on the mileage, popularity, and worldwide credibility side. They should not be held back by the other two, as they have been in the forefront for years, after their debaucle of the 70's-80's. This author needs to do his homeworl. Everybody's mother did not raise a fool.
Congress !
Wasting tax payer money.
This debt will continue ; until, America is bankrupt.
Then the American tax payer will get pissed.
Finally !
Well, the Saturn is no clunker to start with. What a shame it is for the author to say such a thing. It gets nearly 40 mpg, and amazingly is one of the nicest cars to drive I've ever drive with smooth shifting, and comfort all in one vehicle. Over the years I probably driven almost every model the three car makers have produced and the Saturn is my choice for sure!
As for one automaker in this country, we aren't ready to unemploy the number of people that would put out of work. The cost of unemployment benefits alone would be horrendous. Phasing their operations down slowly would be smarter than telling them we can't help. If we can help the banks then we should help the workers involved in all parts of the auto industry. I'd have far rather seen the automakers helped than all these banks and AIG! However, the politicians better take it one step farther and put tax credits/rebates out there for the public to buy one of the Big 3's autos and that means no rebates for foreign owned automakers building their vehicles in this country to escape import taxes.
Senators: Mitch McConnell, Bob Corker, Mike Enzi
I sent this letter to the above Senators on 11/20/2008
I have recieved no response to date.
Here is a synopsis of a plan to try to save the automotive industry in North America.
Merge GM, Ford and Chrysler.
??? GM has the most and newest plants and automation.
??? Ford has a good following and has the lions??? share of the truck market
??? Chrysler is very quick to bring cars from the drawing board to the market
The strengths of the companies combined are greater as a whole than separate.
Let us take a look at Toyota. Toyota product lines are as follows:
1. Toyota
2. Lexus
3. Infinity
4. Landrover
Toyota will overtake GM in the next few years if not sooner.
The basis for the merger would be to:
A. Identify the strengths of each company
B. Identify ???PRODUCTIVE??? plants
C. Assemble more than one car (Chevy, Ford, Chrysler ) at one location. For example trucks at a Ford Assembly Plant, small to mid size cars at a current Chrysler facility, and luxury, full size cars and SUVs at GM.
A short list of the benefits would be as follows:
??? One President (and only one jet)
??? Fewer Division managers
??? Less cost in transferring finished products to distribution points
??? More utilization (productivity) at each plant
??? Consolidate to one Union contract
No matter what happens, the Union must be part of the solution. For example, basic hourly wages could be reduced by substituting bonuses paid for the performance of the company. Everyone is a ???stakeholder.???
Learn more from Toyota! Understand and implement as US version of the Toyota Production System. The Japanese learned about ???Lean and Agile??? production methods after WW2 from people like Deming and Henry Ford, among others.
The Japanese have taken over our Steel Industry our Electronics Industry and are now poised to take over World Leadership of our Automotive Industry. You guys in Washington cannot let this happen.
Creation of ???Value??? is the basis of any economy. When you build a car, or home, or a TV for that matter you create something from nothing. That is creating Value. It feeds the middle class and supports a basis for taxation. The distribution industry is notorious for low paying jobs. One of my clients at Boeing one told me in 1992 that we were losing American jobs at an alarming rate and said if we do not do something to stop it all we will have left to do is do each other???s laundry and cut each other???s hair.
The merger eliminates a considerable amount of overhead. The 100???s of millions of dollars in overhead and un-Godly bonuses adds costs but no value. I think the merger might help us be more competitive in the world market. But that might be more of a wish than a reality.
If you would like to discuss this any further I will give you my contact information. I would be glad to assist in any way I can so we can keep jobs in the US.
Respectfully,
The union killed this industry. Their time has come and gone. So has the U.S. car industry.
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