Mrs. Kramer Vs. Mrs. Kramer

Just wonderful that Falwell's church is forking over the bill so they can push their nonsensical religious beliefs on the state that they are supposed to be separate from.

When people ask me, "why do atheists care about religion?" Stories like this one give me plenty to talk about.

Miller could always get the sperm donor to sell her daughter to Jenkins as a slave like Exodus 21:7 allows and then everyone could be happy.

How disgusting! I cannot believe that this supposed "Christian" Lisa is has the audacity to use religion to keep a child from her other mother. How can she be so heartless? Did she not live with this woman for years? Love her? Bring a child into the world with her? And now, she can just turn around and try to take this child away? To flaunt on Facebook a picture of the two of them together? What a sick, sick woman. I hope the courts hurry up and allow Janet to see her daughter again. Shame on you, Lisa Miller.

I would like to feel sorry, but can't. Thanks to Zazi feminists, I lost my daughter in the same manner she has lost hers. Where was my ACLU help when I needed it to stop my ex from calling sexual abuse (that was proved false within days), where was the court when she was in contempt for not allowing me to see her for four years? Nowhere. Thanks to all of these fricken women's rights bs. WHERE the hell is MENs rights? Nowhere. Why? Because we have none. It's a fricken shame that women bitch moan and complain about deadbeat fathers, but then bitch moan, complain and revert to bullshit antics when fathers want to be a part of their children's lives.

Lucifer (appropriate name), many people choose to "have" children together. Parents adopt, take in foster children, go invitro, have hetero sex, hire surrogates, etc. They made a conscious choice to "have" a child together. "Having children" doesn't necessarily mean producing them. It means raising them. Any idiot with a twelve pack and a drunk sorority girl (no offense to sorority girls) can make a baby. Jenkins supported Miller and Isabella for over two years while Miller was pregnant and for 17 months after. She continued supporting them after they left. Does this make her a "father" or her "mother"? Absolutely not, but it does make her a parent. I have 2 foster children who's parents died of drug overdoses. They have been with me for over 5 years. Does this make me their "father" or their "mother"? No, but I am their parent reguardless of what you or others think. My cousin and her husband adopted 2 wonderful children. Is she their "mother"? I'd love to read your opinion on that. Just because your little mind can't get around gender roles, don't try and throw your predujices at me. Making babies is the easy part. Raising them makes someone a parent. Diversity makes this country great. So regardless of what you or any other small minded bigot feels, gay people deserve to have their unions protected, respected and recognized by law. See you in Heaven, "Lucifer".

Having a child while in a relationship is risky. It doesn't matter if you are heterosexual or gay. Relationships can sour. As a Christian myself, I feel it is wrong for me to be in a gay relationship because of what I read in the Bible. To me it is sin in the same way that eating pork is a sin to some. Ultimately, my salvation is between me and God. When it comes to others, I discuss the Bible and give my viewpoints while they give theirs. If we don't agree, I still have respect for them. God gave us free will. I'm sure there are things I do every day that do not please Him. I don't decide who gets into heaven and who doesn't. I just try to live the life that I feel God has planned for me.
I think we tend to forget that, in Paul's letters, he adresses all manner of sin--from coveting to adultery--and says, "and such were some of you". We've all sinned. Is there anyone out there who hasn't been envious of what someone else has? God will provide forgiveness if we ask. In the meantime, why do we punish a child because of our view of what the adults in her life are doing? It would be far more Christ-like for Ms. Miller to allow the girl to see Ms. Jenkins and spare her the stress of separation. When the girl is older, she can decide what type of relationship she wants to have with Ms. Jenkins. Both women could agree to not discuss their relationship. My brother is divorced and the agreement is that neither parent talks about the other with the child.
Why are we Christians so afraid for our kids to even encounter someone who is outside the faith? Are we afraid that our faith is so fragile that any exposure to the world will break it? Are we not here to spread the Word to others? How can we do that if we sequester ourselves in our churches and homeschool our kids so as not to come in contact with non-believers?

My GOD! Hey sturzl: "She made a decision to have a child with Jenkins." (???). What an utterly STUPID statement! Do you consider that while Miller was havging the child, just because Jenkins was in the delivery room she was "having the child" with Miller? Or, they both agreed to have a child, and then Miller is the mother & Jenkins is the---WHAT???!! Sperm donor? I don't think so!!! Tell me, OH WISE ONE--- who determined Miller to be the mother? Did they BOTH agree that Miller would be the "woman" and Jenkins would be the ---WHAT??!!---MAN!!! LOL! Do you know how STUPID you & all like you sound!? The person I really feel sorry for is the little girl because she has done nothing wrong and yet has to be in the middle of this mess, and I hope & pray that she will not be forever scarred mentally & emotionally by this terribly distressing part of her life. I'm not a religious zealot; as a matter of fact, I'm not overly religious at all. But I do BELIEVE in God & the Bible & what it teaches, and I know I'm going to Heaven when I die. Thank God Miller saw the light and renounced her sinful lifestyle. But no matter how their pitiful "custody battle" turns out, there's one AND ONLY ONE "ABSOLUTE": Miller will ALWAYS be the child's mother, but Jenkins will NEVER, EVER be her FATHER!

My GOD! Hey sturzl: "She made a decision to have a child with Jenkins." (???). What an utterly STUPID statement! Do you consider that while Miller was havging the child, just because Jenkins was in the delivery room she was "having the child" with Miller? Or, they both agreed to have a child, and then Miller is the mother & Jenkins is the---WHAT???!! Sperm donor? I don't think so!!! Tell me, OH WISE ONE--- who determined Miller to be the mother? Did they BOTH agree that Miller would be the "woman" and Jenkins would be the ---WHAT??!!---MAN!!! LOL! Do you know how STUPID you & all like you sound!? The person I really feel sorry for is the little girl because she has done nothing wrong and yet has to be in the middle of this mess, and I hope & pray that she will not be forever scarred mentally & emotionally by this terribly distressing part of her life. I'm not a religious zealot; as a matter of fact, I'm not overly religious at all. But I do BELIEVE in God & the Bible & what it teaches, and I know I'm going to Heaven when I die. Thank God Miller saw the light and renounced her sinful lifestyle. But no matter how their pitiful "custody battle" turns out, there's one AND ONLY ONE "ABSOLUTE": Miller will ALWAYS be the child's mother, but Jenkins will NEVER, EVER be her FATHER!

I can't stand wasbians (Lisa Miller, Anne Heche, Lindsay Lohan, etc..). They all seem a little crazy. The law needs to forcefully remove Isabella and put her with Janet Jenkins. Miller accepted money from Jenkins so she admitted that Jenkins was a parent. She's disobeying court orders and needs to be arrested. She should feel the pain she caused Jenkins by having to miss out on important aspects of Isabella's life. I hope that Social Services investigates Miller like it did Jenkins. She made a decision to have a child with Jenkins and shouldn't be allowed to change her mind now when it suits her and after she accepted child support payments.

kind of reminds me of the "alien" gonzoles debacle. You can tell who the screwballs are by their reactions. Whether you believe in god or gay, legally Jenkins has rights here. Pratically as most of us see, Jenkins is the stable one too. What a mess. then you got the states differences...just follow the course of events, someone pointed out the fact that Miller was accepting the child support...that sort of tells all. Poor kid. just like other divorces. the lawyers get swimming pools and the kids get to be poor and not go to college.

Ms. Jenkins should be allowed all her visitation rights already won. And I think social services needs to inspect Ms. Millers stability!!

Poor baby girl...
As in ALL custody disasters...there are no winners, only degrees of losers...
The biggest one of all being that poor little girl.
She will now be stuck between houses... (cut in half...in the court of Solomon...because NEITHER put the child's welfare FIRST) truly "at home" no where...

Once again we don't have to agree. However, I will tell you that the only reason I read this pathetic story on this site is because it was e-mailed to me.

Unless I missed something my rights get voted on everyday by the politicians. I have to sit back while my constitution is up for grabs to the highest bidder.

Don't preach to the choir!

Your so right NHEJL!, while we are at it let's vote on slavery too ; ) They never put that up for a vote but we all know that slavery was GREAT!!! Good job NHEJL, NHEJL for president.

While were at it nhejl let's vote on slavery, we never put that up too a vote. And if the sites to liberal go read the bible, it doesnt have a comment section.

good thinking, nhejl ... when do I get to vote on your human rights?

HOORAY!! The US Supreme Court today refused to hear Miller's case, and now the state of Virginia must enforce the Vermont custody ruling. CONGRATULATIONS, JANET JENKINS, I'm glad to know this little girl will not be entirely at the mercy of those horrible christian bigots!

If women were supposed to procreate with other women and men with other men wouldn't our bodies have been made to do so?

Just a thought!

I remember going to a talk years ago by a very famous author who said that fanatics create their own reality - such is the case in the world of fundamentalist Christians. They are right no matter what, their life style is the right style and everyone else be damned. Ms. Miller, in my opinion, is not the poster girl for stability does not realize what a disservice she is doing to her child by alienating her from a loving parent. Ms. Miller is only thinking of Ms. Miller.