THE VERDICT

The Abortion Wars Get Technical

Women have few rights at all when doctors can legally misinform them or deny service entirely.

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  • Posted By: cmanecke @ 03/26/2009 6:26:25 PM

    I disagree with the South Dakota law. It is not right to force a physician to read the state mandated script that is basically flat out telling them to not have an abortion. It is the patients own business whether or not they feel comfortbale going through with an abortion, and they do not need their doctor to try and persuade them otherwise. The wording of the script is completely biased. It is not necessary to comment that a women has an "existing relationship" with their unborn child, and by wording it in that way they are displaying too much of their own thoughts on a situation that is none of their business. The patient has a right to privacy and they should not be interrogated in this way. Also, it is not fair to require that the physicians say this script if they do not believe in it. If this law is passed many physicians willl become angry and they will probably fight the law. I think that it would be in everyone's best interest if they just left this situation alone.

  • Posted By: jharburg @ 03/03/2009 9:07:06 PM

    Ms. Lithwick,
    I have 2 things to say in response to your article on the "Abortion Wars."
    First, you make reference to one research study which did not find any lasting deleterious effects of abortion. Just a superficial query on the internet led me to many studies which contradict that finding. I would also challenge you to meet with any of the Silent No More women face to face to hear their story. They will describe each in their own unique way the ravages of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I can think of no other event, besides rape, which creates more trauma for MOST women than having an abortion. It is the ultimate denial of the life giving genius which only women can contribute to human existence.
    Second, be careful when you frame a person's right of conscience as a stumbling block to your agenda. Wasn't it the right of conscience that our forefathers exercised when they wrote the Declaration of Independence throwing off the oppressive rule of a Monarchy depriving their citizens of their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Wasn't it the right of conscience which women in the suffrage movement relied upon when they fought for the right to vote? Wasn't it the right of conscience which Martin Luther King Jr. used when he fought for racial equality by using non violent means? Were you not exercising your right of conscience to express your views publicly about this whole issue? If you don't want religious fanatics dictating your right to exercise your conscience then don't set yourself and/or your ideology up as the dictator of what a person's right of conscience entails. Please don't do that. It is the right of conscience which makes any society at least approach the difficult task of being civilized. Without it, rest assured power mongers of every sort will have their way with whatever arbitrary purpose they align themselves.
    Thank you for your consideration of my views.
    John Harburg
    jharburg2007@gmail.com
    3-3-09

  • Posted By: treehuggress @ 01/14/2009 9:42:18 PM

    "...Birth control, emergency contraception and???under most circumstances???abortion...are not services a woman can provide for herself...."
    Part of the problem of our entire health care system is the dis-empowerment of the patient. Our society teaches us that we needs pills for everything. Although I agree with this article, I take issue with the quote above. Women are very capable of preventing pregnancy, being aware of their own cycles and fertility. To assume their incapacity is disempowering and insulting.

  • Posted By: ExcuseMe? @ 12/10/2008 7:31:16 AM

    If you deny healthcare providers the right to follow their conscience, then you will find people turning from the field entirely, and we need good healthcare providers! Do you want to see all the Catholic hospitals close their doors, leaving many people without a local emergency room? Because that's what many Bishops have said they might do if FOCA is passed. Without provisions so doctors can follow their consciences, you'll have many who find they simply cannot practice medicine in this country. Don't leave the rest of us patients out in the cold because you want every doctor to be forced to give you an abortion or prescribe you birth control. If I get in a car accident, I don't care what the doctor's personal beliefs are, I just want him/her to be good at what they do. Don't chase our doctors out of the medical profession for your personal agenda!

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:50:05 PM

      Lawyers don't always get to choose which defendants to represent just like doctors don't always get to choose their patients. There are just some fields of work people should not go into if they are unable to put aside their personal belief and assist their patient/client.


      When you're in a position of unique power or speciality that's the choice you make going in. It's a personal responsibility they took knowing the facts upfront. To disavow that now for their personal agenda shouldn't be allowed.


      Why should ANY patient be left out in the cold?

  • Posted By: kurtdtn @ 12/17/2008 1:31:46 PM

    If you do not believe in God the anything goes. It is ok to have sex; create a baby; and kill it. Doctors and nurses have the right to avoid abortion services because of our Constitution's guarantee of Religious freedom and more importantly because the "Morning After Pill" is currently associated with 5 deaths.

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:42:14 PM

      1st-- I believe in God, so stop assuming.

      2nd- The FDA reports said 4 deaths occurred because the women were treated at clinics that DID NOT follow FDA-approved instructions for the two- pill regimen. The 5th woman died of a ruptured tubal pregnancy. Ie> Her pregnancy killed her.

      The morning after pill had nothing to do with it except for the fact that it did not stop the pregnancy as no pill stops a tubal pregnancy. Go ahead and chaulk that one up to bad karma if you're an idiot.

      And frankly 5 deaths is nothing compared to the people it's helped. Not being cruel but it's a sad fact.

  • Posted By: mariov @ 12/07/2008 4:53:32 PM

    If a doctor thinks - with very good reason - that performing an abortion is, in fact, to kill a human child. nobody can force him to do that. Doctors are there to save life, of everybody, they are not there to kill babies!!!

    And of course, if some girl wants to kill her own baby, she must be informed of what she is doing. It´calMURDEMURDER

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:32:39 PM

      Doctors kill people all the time by stopping breathing machines at the request of familiy's. Right or wrong they take life because we trust them to be skilled and qualified to do it properly.

      They have no right to deny medical services to anyone.

  • Posted By: LibertyBelle @ 12/09/2008 3:24:40 AM

    How far are we willing to take the intrusion of faith into the public sphere, and legal policy? Just a question to ask before when supporting restriction of others' rights on the basis of faith. Others' faith may in turn restrict your rights. Be careful. Very careful.

    On discovery of pain medications, many religious leaders, particularly those of the Catholic faith, opposed use of pain medications. Pain was believed to be justified divine punishment for those who were of insufficient faith, or actively committing sin, or serving penance for past sin. Pain sent by God was therefore not to be interfered with by artificial means in opposition to God's will.

    A policy stands to be enacted permitting health professionals, including nurses, doctors, pharmacists, emergency responders, etc., to decline to administer medications and procedures which conflict with their religious or moral convictions.

    A simple question: Do those who support the new policy also support a pharmacist's right to deny them pain medication following a surgery? Or the banning of Tylenol and Advil on drugstore shelves? Misery is sent by God, is it not? At least some might quite easily return to those doctrinal stances. It's quite understandable if pharmacists of strong faith believe the alleviation of suffering to defy God's will, and choose not to dispense medications with that purpose.

    These thorny questions arise whenever we as a society permit individuals to control others' choices with only the basis of personal religious beliefs. Job's faith was tested by God, and he lost all -- his health, his family, his wealth, his home. Should medical insurance, healthcare, and property insurance be permitted to interfere with God's purpose?

    Consider it.

    By the way... I had an abortion 22 years ago. The circumstances are no one's business, and I hope they never are, because it was my choice, and one which by its very nature did not belong in the public sphere. In any case, I'm not suicidal, troubled hormonally, or having any regrets about my decision and action. I do regret having made choices which resulted in a pregnancy under very adverse circumstances. However, it was the right, best, and most appropriate choice to make at that time. One I would make again given the same circumstances. I now have two beautiful children whom I adore, and am able to support them financially, emotionally, and socially as a full-time, work-at-home mom. Abortion was a good call, and not one for which I owe anyone an apology, regardless of the views of some.

    • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/20/2008 1:39:18 PM

      Can you look your other 2 children in the eye and say to them, it would have been perfectly fine if mommy would have killed you when you were an innocent unborn child, now go play sweety... deal with your bad choice, there is forgiveness, don't try to make it OK.

      • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:21:40 PM

        Now you're just being ridiculous. When her children grow up she may share what was a private decision or not. That's the whole point...it's a private decision and no one's business but her own.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 12/09/2008 4:38:10 PM

      Do your other two children know about your abortion? You say these things like it was simply taking out unwanted trash but you destroyed a life. Now this life is with God and you claiming that it was the right decision to do at the time shows me that you are still trying to justify killing your child. Until you admit what it truly is then there will never be any peace from this even though you have found ways to suppress the feelings of wrong doing....they still lie dormant in your subconscience....Selah!

  • Posted By: jazzbaby @ 12/10/2008 2:23:20 PM

    War is killing a human being too, let's not forget.

    • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/19/2008 8:42:59 PM

      Just war is to save lives... of course some will die defending others. hello !

      • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:17:12 PM

        So who are you to decide it wasn't a "just abortion"? Seriously. You don't know anything about the individual woman and her history and her life to decide broadly she isn'tt capable of deciding what is right and just for her life.

        If you're pro-life you're pro-life all the way or you're a complete hypocrite. You can't have it both ways.

        Using God when it's convenient and ignoring the parts of the Bible that don't fit neatly into your world view is why it's hard to take anti-choice seriously sometimes.

  • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/19/2008 1:40:24 PM

    OK Alicia... at what point does the child get the right to live...?

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:11:41 PM

      If the mother can still get an abortion? When the mother decides it does. If the mother can't? Right then and there apparently.

  • Posted By: Straw @ 12/10/2008 4:00:20 PM

    Women, listen up. When you are pregnant, it is no longer your body. You share it with someone else called "your child." Congratulations, mom. Pregnancy moves you into a spot where abortion is no longer a hypothetical choice, it is simply and plainly death of your child. If you don't want to get pregnant, then don't have sex. If you do get pregnant, then do the RIGHT thing for someone else instead of the EASY thing for you.

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:09:28 PM

      ""If you don't want to get pregnant, then don't have sex. " Really? Come on, you know deep down that's the worst argument ever. You know and I know that is NEVER going to happen in our society so why deny birth control? Or is the baby a punishment for bad actions?

    • Posted By: Totes @ 12/11/2008 6:02:57 PM

      No, stopping a life inside of you is never ever easy..you would know this if you are a mother. But bringing a child into the world where they have no security is not fair to that child. I don't think there are many women who go through with an abortion who don't feel a sense of loss. But they wouldn't do it if they felt they could give everything to the child that it needed

      • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/20/2008 1:16:06 PM

        usng your logic we sholud kill even a 1 year old child if we / society feel we cannot take care of it...? Hello !

        • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:07:14 PM

          Well technically you shouldn't have children you can't take care of.

  • Posted By: kurtdtn @ 12/17/2008 1:24:39 PM

    The question of abortion is NOT about a pregnant woman's dignity. The question is whether a woman after deciding to have sex can destroy human life. On the other hand, it is interesting that Abortionists can botch abortion after abortion funded by my tax dollars without even a whisper from your magazine. You do not believe in God so you believe your opinion on moral issues is superior.

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:05:21 PM

      So what if the woman didn't decide to have sex? What if she was raped?

  • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/17/2008 9:56:36 PM

    question for the pro choce...? does the child have human rights...?

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:03:46 PM

      Nope. If the woman can still legally have an abortion (ie>within a certain time) her rights trump.

    • Posted By: AliciaCarla1955 @ 12/19/2008 12:05:17 PM

      It is not and has never been a question of whether or not the child has rights. Of course the child has rights. The REAL question is whether or not the child's rights supersede the mother's rights.

      People who are pro-choice recognize that the only person who can really asses whose rights take precedence is the child's parents, particularly the mother. She is the one who has to live with the decision.

  • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/20/2008 6:51:22 PM

    What is worse than murdering an innocent child... ? love to see your list pro choice...

    • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:02:00 PM

      Depends on your point of view. War in Iraq? Israel attacking and killing 300+ people in 2 days? Homelessness?

  • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 2:00:47 PM

    I think it's sad that a professional pharmacist can deny medicine based on his/her personal belief. Whether you agree with abortion or not a pharmacist has zero right to not dispense a medicine. What's next? The pharmacist thinks AIDS is justified karma for living a certain type of life and refuses to dispense AZT meds?

    A doctor refusing to operate may be a different argument (though I don't think it is), but discrimination is discrimination no matter what side of the fence you fall on.

  • Posted By: ShanaCat @ 12/08/2008 3:29:01 PM

    i am not a Christian but pro life, and I do agree that no doctor should be compelled to perform an abortion. If one were pro life and forced to terminate a pregnancy, I could see that as causing a huge amount of mental anguish for the doctor. What pro choice people need to understand is that many pro life people see abortion as murder,. plain and simple. Forcing a doctor to commit what they see as murder is going to have enormous emotional consequences, and i don't believe they should be compelled to perform abortions, as to them this would make them violate their oath to "do no harm." As has been stated on here before, there are plenty of people who are disagree with abortion for non religious reasons. There are plenty of non religious arguments that can be made against abortion.

    However, I think it is repugnant that doctors can be allowed to refuse birth control to patients, because this is not a case in which the doctor is being forced to do something they would find emotionally traumatizing and morally repugnant. This is JUST about a doctor being able to refuse treatment based on personal beliefs. Birth control doesn't kill babies, it is the number one PREVENTION of abortion in this country. There are no objective arguments that can be made against birth control. While I know several non religious pro life people, I have never met anyone who is against birth control for a reason other than a religious conviction that sex for recreation and not procreation is a sin. This is not a case of a doctor being forced to commit what they see as an atrocity, this is a case of a doctor being able to force their religious beliefs on a patient, which should not be within their power to do so.

    • Posted By: Kidpyramid @ 12/09/2008 2:13:04 AM

      ShanaCat, please do a little research. Birth control pills contain abortifactants in case they are unsuccessful at stopping conception. It is as much a moral issue as abortion.

      • Posted By: ShanaCat @ 12/17/2008 1:25:03 PM

        Actually, you are the one who needs to do the research.

        It always gets my goat when people like you get 100% of your information from Christian websites and then call others "misinformed"

        Mayo Clinic studies, John Hopkins Studies, and Harvard Studies have been done exahustively on a link between birth control and miscarriages and have found none. They have found that taking birth control once you are already pregnant (NOT the morning after pilll, obviously) not only does birth control not terminate a pregnancy, it doesn't even cause developmental damage to the baby.

        The only places that state that birth control causes miscarriages are on Christian websites, and it's almost always women who simply attribute their miscarriages to birth control incorrectly. They state I was on birth control, then I got off of it and had a miscarriage. Therefor the birth control caused the miscarriage. In fact, miscarriages are very common and these women just falsely ASSUME it was the birth control.

        Again, the ONLY websites stating that there is a link between birth control and miscarriages are Christian ones. Any ACTUAL medical studies done on the subject have found no link.

        • Posted By: AliciaCarla1955 @ 12/19/2008 2:34:56 PM

          You are the one who needs to do research. Birth control pills typically contain hormones that affect the disposition of the egg. There is no birth control pill that has any substance specifically designed to terminate a pregnancy.

          However, if you are pregnant taking birth control pills can have an adverse effect on the fetus. It is rare though that birth control pills will induce a miscarriage, it is much more likely that you will end up with a deformed child. This is why you must get an examination by a doctor every month to get a prescription for birth control pills and why such prescriptions are not refillable.

          • Posted By: Leena @ 12/29/2008 1:52:13 PM

            Newsflash--most medical insurance company's will absolutely do refillable birth control. You can have auto refills for up to a year or longer. You only need a prescrip. because it's a hormone based medicine. And the only reason you have to go back to the doctor after a year for a new prescrip is just in case your prescription needs to be updated due to body hormanal changes and the insurance company wants to cover their $$ investment. Ie> there may be a cheaper but just as effective pill so less money out of pocket for them.

    • Posted By: cpmondello @ 12/08/2008 7:49:42 PM

      No one is "forcing" doctors or anyone else to do anything they do not want to do.

      If you have a job, and don't like it, then quit and find a job more to your liking.

      If it were men who had abortions...the pill would be covered by insurance, (like viagra is) and no one would be able to use this foolsih issue as politcal ploy to win votes!

      • Posted By: bojack27 @ 12/09/2008 4:47:53 PM

        What! One pill boost your libido while the other terminates a life! Get Real! unless the poor sap who takes the pill dies from sexual intercourse then it should be regulated. It does say that you need a physicians approval to use Viagra and yet this abortion pill any idiot can take!

        • Posted By: AliciaCarla1955 @ 12/19/2008 2:29:39 PM

          Viagra is not always covered by insurance.

          To get the morning after pill you need a prescription.

          What is the difference?

  • Posted By: furwakawaka @ 12/07/2008 4:53:00 PM

    this is dumb. doctors should not have to perform an abortion if they are against it. that's just cruel. but they shouldn't be allowed to give misinformation like that south dakota law forces them to do. and pharmacists should not be allowed to just not give a woman her birth control pills. or the morning after pills. it's not their decision.

    • Posted By: Kidpyramid @ 12/09/2008 2:30:42 AM

      Why is everyone just taking the word of the author that the information is wrong? Having an abortion is emotionally devastating It also causes major hormonal changes. It has been proven that such hormonal fluxes have caused women to commit heinous acts as in PPD and mothers killing their babies. I refuse to believe, without extensive studies, that no woman has ever entertained the idea of suicide after killing her baby. This is "increased risk", not a guarantee that having an abortion will make her commit suicide.

      • Posted By: alicet18 @ 12/21/2008 10:48:16 PM

        The author doesn't say that the increased risk factor isn't true, but more that the "statistical significance" is exaggerated. I mean, " The law requires physicians providing abortions to read from a state-mandated script advising the patient that she is about to 'terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being' with whom she has an 'existing relationship.'" This will obviously be intimidating to many patients, even though the message is not necessarily true for everyone. The law gives physicians the opportunity to knowingly influence their patients based on their personal beliefs.

  • Posted By: Gavin Inkster @ 12/07/2008 4:35:14 PM

    The slant of this article is shocking. Equally shocking is the fact that every person who has commented here refuses to recognize another individual's ethical beliefs, while demanding recognition of your own. If a doctor believes that performing an abortion is equal to killing a baby, then he or she must have the opportunity to decline performing the procedure. What you are asking for is legislation that will force a doctor to perform an action (that has incredible moral implications... this is NOT the same thing as filling up your car's gas tank, Tammy) against his will; the foundation of such legislation is surely of the type that none of you would support.

    • Posted By: alicet18 @ 12/21/2008 10:39:45 PM

      I won't speak for the authors of the previous comments, but I agree with you. Physicians should have the right to decline treatment based on their beliefs - but to intentionally misinform a patient about the consequences? That, at the very least in my opinion, is absolutely ludicrous.

  • Posted By: adamrac @ 12/07/2008 9:16:38 PM

    Nothing stops a patient from going to the doctor of his or her choice. No one's choice is being being infringed upon with this ruling. They can choose to go to another doctor or pharmacy. But to compel a doctor or pharmacist to do something outside of their conscience would be terrible indeed. How do you compel someone to commit murder? Would we ever compel a prison guard to 'flip the switch' if they opposed the death penalty? Would we compel a Jewish worker to work on the Sabbath - or compel a Muslim worker to eat at a working lunch during Ramadan? This is a free country - which means we are all free - free to choose our own doctors and as doctors free to choose to live within our own conscience.

    • Posted By: cpmondello @ 12/08/2008 8:03:06 PM

      I believe people should be Liberal Secularist Vegetarians, that is my belief system, my "relgion".

      I want to have the same "rights" Christians get in the USA.

      I want to be able to tell my boss than none of my co-workers can have Thanksgivning or any other holiday off because I find it offensive and repulsive due to its history,

      If I own a business, I want to deny anyone who doesnt believe like me, any time off they want for any reason...lets say, to go to a Boy Scouts meeting with theiir child.

      If I find my neighbor offensive, because they have pink flamingos on their law, it is againt my belief system and I should not have tp see this.

      C'mon, get real.....

      Christians are ALWAYS complaining of being treated so badly when they are the ones who ALWAYS use the law to try and take away everyone else's freedoms.

      GET OFF THE CROSS...WE NEED THE WOOD!!!

      • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/21/2008 12:21:42 AM

        how sad, this logic is so warped...

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 12/07/2008 10:04:56 PM

      You are missing the point. Women in South Dakota can go to ANY doctor and the doctor MUST read a statement that is inaccuarte and misleading, and the woman MUST sign a document saying she has received the information.

      As far as chosing another doctor or pharmacey, a woman won't know ahead of time which pharmacist or ER may withhold the morning-after pill until after she tries to get the prescription filled or the receive ER treatment, and by the time she finds out she can't get what she needs, it may be too late for her because the morning-after pill is time-sensitive. Not to mention that in many rural areas, there is only one pharmacy or ER - there isn't a second one available to chose.

      Not only is the women's choice being infringed on, the doctor's ability to provide appropriate care is compromised.

      Yes, health care providers should be able to act according to their conscience, but not at the expense of the patient's health care needs. And it is the patient who ultimately determines what they need, and what course of treatment they will chose, not the provider.

  • Posted By: rameycrystal @ 12/08/2008 8:26:09 AM

    Abortion is nothing but MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    God said thou shall not KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: AliciaCarla1955 @ 12/19/2008 1:53:41 PM

      I guess you are against the war in Iraq and capital punishment.

      How about self defense, can you kill in self defense?

      By the way, terminating a pregnancy is not murder. Murder is a legal term that refers to a specific type of killing.

      • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/20/2008 4:04:26 PM

        Ther are 2 different Hebrew words used in the Bible when speaking of killing. One is used when an unjust killing ( murder ) is spoken of... and one is used when a just killing such as capital punishment is being spoken of... GOD is not a fool...

    • Posted By: cpmondello @ 12/08/2008 7:47:18 PM

      There is no god !

      • Posted By: AliciaCarla1955 @ 12/19/2008 1:58:40 PM

        Prove it!

        Don't bother, you can't. You are an atheist because you refuse to believe in God until you are shown proof that he doesn't exist. Atheism is a belief just like theism. I cannot prove to you that there is a God and you can't prove that there isn't.

        However, science has already proved that there was a creator.

        Consider the mono bloc. There are two possibilities; either it exploded the instant it came into existence or it existed for some period of time before exploding.

        In the first case someone must have caused it to come into existence. In the second someone must have caused it to explode. In neither case could this have happened without the intervention of some being.

  • Posted By: osalt @ 12/09/2008 11:56:00 AM

    This is madness! Womens rights are being taken away by those who are un-affected . Hopefully this country will wake up and dismiss the divisive views of the religious right wing.

    • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 12/20/2008 1:20:43 PM

      How horrible of us to defend an innocent child from being murdered... open your eyes !

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