ENVIRONMENT

Blowing Smoke

Is clean coal technology fact or fiction?

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  • Posted By: rajarambojji @ 02/24/2009 2:19:14 AM

    There is an alternative. Please peruse http://www.youtube.com/atrilab . Pray Newsweek brings this to the notice of Obama administration in the interest of USA, and humanity.
    Newton is a unique scientist whose work remains relevant to humanity after centuries and even for space age travel. He is said to have born on 25 Dec 1642 as per Roman calendar, but Europe reset the date to Jan 4th, 1643 as per Gregorian calendar later on.

    Let me share a secret unused by us for the last 300 years. His theories on gravity can help us meet the energy needs of humanity to transport people and goods. Using the approach outlined below transportation is possible at speeds of 210 mph from city to city. Retooled cars/trucks on gravity-powered roads allow for transportation without fossil fuels and transport cargo from any point to any point at 60-mph. Existing metro rail can be powered by gravity doing away the electrical traction.

    Detailed specification in US Patent application number: 12184151 dated 07/31/2008 provides more information regarding the "Gravity Powered Rail, Road and Runways transportation systems".
    (www.atrilab.com)
    The existing roads and rail infrastructure can be primarily powered by gravity attaining speeds of 60 mph.


    The implications are gravitational force can provide in case of USA:
    1. 360 KMPH rail based intercity transportation saving 87% of electrical energy
    2. Urban metros, even existing ones can save 97% of electrical energy
    3. Cargo can be moved from any point to any point in USA with gravity power, saving 97% of energy from fossil fuels
    4. USA can stop importing 8m barrels of oil daily and stop 3.5b tons of carbon emissions per annum


    The projects for USA would need investment of $450 billion, but no subsidy from the government, because they generate 30 to 40% cash surpluses. They generate also close to one million jobs. Eternal free gravity force can kick start projects in all the states for transportation infrastructure to be futuristic, totally powered by gravitational force. Within four years, we can complete the commercial implementation and get benefits, without any need for waiting for research to be completed.

    We need a paradigm shift in transportation scene with "green" energy from Newton's gravity and the game changer solution is ready for implementation.


  • Posted By: P.Bobo @ 02/22/2009 8:35:37 PM

    22 FEB 09 Again. You should see the Wind Farm up in the Thumb of Michigan. It is a spectacular sight. We should be building ALL of these components right here around the Great Lakes. Harvest the renewables, People.

  • Posted By: davie divergent @ 02/22/2009 12:40:35 AM

    Clean coal: nothing but a PR campaign. And why burn it all anyway? We'll need it for plastic and chemicals.

  • Posted By: MichaelX @ 02/09/2009 5:31:16 PM

    Yeah, if you just take the color out of it, {but still leave the bad vapors and gases}
    I would like my clean coal to smell like butterscotch!

  • Posted By: TiredOfThisGovt @ 01/06/2009 9:19:56 PM

    If it is "clean coal", we should be able to burn it in an open pit in the middle of the power plants' executive office...without ventilation.

    Fossil fuels were a great way to help us get industrialized, but their time has past.

  • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/19/2008 8:28:13 PM

    IF the big if and when we can find a way to burn coal clean we should use it. We would be stupid not to use an abundant energy supply. If we can mine it without destroying the Appalachian Mountains and polluting the water and environment we should mine it. I believe it can be mined responsibily, I believe we will find a way to burn it clean.

    You can't even drill a hole in the ground in Anwar Alaska but down in Ky and WVa. you can blow the tops off mountains and push it all over into a valley and cover a fresh water stream. Its a matter of geography I guess and demographics. If you are an Alaskan mountain or a caribu you will get some protection. If you are an Appalachian Mountain or a Hillbilly you have no chance or rights.

    Right now my major concern is not co2. It is hard to concentrate on co2 or global warming when your house is being shaken off its foundation. Its hard to think about co2 when you are choking to death on the dust from the haul road. Its hard to think about anything when the tractor trailer 18 wheel coal trucks keep you up all night. The empty aluminum beds sound like thunder each time the truck hits a pot hole. Coal haul roads have a lot of pot holes especially behind a tree huggers house who is trying to show the world the curse of Mountain Top Removal.

    On the plus side when we are just one big platiau we won't be hillbillys anymore. You have to have a hill to live on to be a hillbilly so I guess we are soon to be an extinct species also. Although we don't deserve the same protection as a snail darter or a spotted owl. I guess we can all be Clint Eastwood types or High Plains Drifters when its all level. There is plenty of time for us to worry about the co2 problem. Mountains disappearing in front of your eyes in the hear and now make our problem more immediate in nature.

    If you spend all your time on the co2 problem and it's long term effect you don't have to worry about the hear and now. The Ky. and WVa. portion of the Appalachian Mountain Chain will be long gone by the end of this century. Of course the rising sea levels that we thought we would be immune to may be a problem then also since we won't have a mountain to hide on. Still when put in its proper prospective it is hard to get excited over co2 problems in the future when you have watched whole mountains destroyed and whole valleys destroyed in real time.

    I am hoping someone will become more intereste in our immediate problem before it's to late. I am confident we will find a cure for the co2 problem. However I don't know how we can heal a whole mountain region after it is blown up and pushed over into the valleys. There is no way to reverse this kind of destruction.

  • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/15/2008 10:27:41 AM

    Looks like another brainwashed hillbilly or are you really from East Kentucky. This has been the coal corporation line ever since they started blowing off the tops of mountains down here and covering up valleys. I live in East Kentucky and was born in a coal company house, we had to shop at a coal company store, my father worked over 33 years in the coal mines and died in one.
    This is how it is, they tell us we can use the flat land they create for us for housing developments. We could put every sub-prime default mortgage property on the flat land they have already created for us. I have as of yet to see one. They say we can put industrial sites on the flat land they create for us. It takes millions of dollars to develop a piece of flat land for an industrial site. Power, sewage, water, road and sometimes rail has to be developed. You have to b close to major rail and transportation hubs for industry to want to build here. We could fill all the industrial land needs for China with the flat land they have already created for us. I don???i know of any and they won???t let us diversify and lose their labor force anyway.
    The artificial flat land you may call beautiful is in the eye of the beholder I guess. They transplant a few Elk from out west to put on this artificial prairie. They don???t like to talk about the 20 or 30 species of native animal that needs a forest that just got their habitat destroyed. The Mountain Top Removal I live under is a blight and an eye sore. It used to be a pristine valley over a mile lone that had mountain grouse, flying squirrel, two spices of tree squirrel, turkey, deer, raccoon, chipmunks, two species of fox, and mountain jacks or jack rabbits along with the standard rabbit. I know I am missing some and not counting the aquatic life that was in that fresh water stream that just got covered up. A virtual mountain paradise that was destroyed and can never be reclaimed.
    All just to try to make the coal corporations competitive with western coal strip jobs. Out west the large, thick seams of coal lay next to the surface and it is low sulfur. You don???t even have to wash most of it. It is cheaper to just push the overburden into a pristine valley than .to put it back on the original contour as was required in the 1977 Surface Mine Act. I want everyone on this site to know that MTR is a relatively new type of strip mining down here in Appalachia. George Bush by executive order changed the rules and regulations of the Clean Water Act and Surface Mining Act for his coal corporation friends that now allow this. The last round of midnight regulation changes he just rushed through will finish us off and allow the coal corporations free reign to destroy the rest of the Appalachian Mountain chain that has a coal seam.
    This is the most destructive type of mining ever developed, even more destructive than hydraulic mining that was outlawed years ago. I live under a strip job that does MTR and am covered up

    • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/16/2008 12:17:16 PM

      ONE THING ABOUT IT,US DUMB BRAINWASHED HILLBILLIES KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SPECIES, ( THE ORIGIN OF ),AND THE DIFFERENCE IN SPICES,(A FOOD ADDITIVE FOR THE PURPOSE OF FLAVORING).SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR SQUIRRELS AND QUIT TALKING SMACK ABOUT WV!!!!!!!!!

      • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/18/2008 3:42:07 PM

        You are correcting me, ???ans??? spelling. A little anal retentive there aren???t we. If you can???t come up with an intelligent counter argument for your cause you nit pick a typo. Most people type fast when blogging or texting and no neither has done much to improve the printed word. Really it looks just as bad when you come on to correct someone for spelling and misspell words yourself.

        Anyone who can promote Mountain Top Removal and valley fills probably has never seen one. If you have and still promote it you probably work for a coal corporation. Maybe they will buy you a spell checker and spice up your life.
        I.m also sorry about the WVs remark when they get you all level over there maybe we can rename the state and quit making fun of the hollow types.

        • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 6:34:53 PM

          Yes my husband works for a coal corporation,and we are PROUD of it!!!!!!!! I am not the one who needs the spell checker.If you were a sophisticated adult,you wouldn't be making fun of people to start with,stick to the subject and keep your RUDE comments to yourself! There is not much need to try to "argue" with you because from reading your comments you have your mind made up.Yes I have seen the beautiful reclamation work they have done and we are proud of it.

          • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/18/2008 8:36:00 PM

            If you had been reading my other post you would have seen that I used to be a coal miner. I can call someone from WVA. a hillbilly because being from East Ky. I also would be regarded as a hillbilly. My father and stepfather and all my uncles mined coal. THE RIGHT WAY. We mned coal in Ky. and WVA for a 100 years with out destroying the mountains. I just had a hollow behind my home over a mile and a quarter long destroyed by MTR. Its a damn eye sore and everything that used to live in that valley is gone. I have nothing against coal miners, I was raised by one. I have mined coal myself but am not a fool and will not let a coal corporation tell me this MTR is a good thing. We have been exploited as a people down here for years and now they are intent on destroying the mountains and valley's we live in. Yes my mind is made up about MTR and I have not sold out or can be bought. I will fight it on every forum I get the chance. If you like it live with it but don't come on here trying to sell that environmental disaster to people who have IQ's greater than a house plant. It is done to save a coal corporation a few bucks over underground mining. I like underground mining. We employ 5 time more people mining coal by underground methods than stripping and MTR. The few strip jobs miners who push this form of mining keep thousands of underground miners unemployed.

            • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 10:13:25 PM

              The mining he does is HIGH WALL mining.It keeps the men from going in the mountain and is much safer! Go to www.terex.com and you will see how it works.They have pits,they dont take the mountain out.It is safer,healthwise,.I hope the I.Q

              • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/19/2008 9:47:03 AM

                I am familiar with all forms of coal mining techniques as I said I am in the heart of coal mining country. That???s all we know or have had to do for generations. Typically with the HIGH WALL mining method they just destroy half the mountain if they are a strip mine operation. Once you shear off half the mountain and have a tall cliff or high wall you move in the HIGH WALL miner that is modeled after the old auger type mining, you just have multiple bits or augers to mine the coal with. From that point you can mine in under the rest of the mountain. Yes it is safer and since they have to fill the high wall up to the original contour it is somewhat better than MTR but not nearly as eco friendly as underground mining. My father died in a rock fall working underground, I know a little about the dangers. I have friends and family that still work under ground and will do nothing else. It gets in your blood and we make good money doing it. When we have mined out a seam the mountain may subside and fall the height of the coal seam but we still have the mountain, the valley and the fresh water stream. I am not against coal mining just the type of mining that is destroying the whole Appalachian chain that has a coal seam. My family come to this place over 200 years ago and I would like for my kids and grandkids to see it and enjoy it as my ancestors did. You can???t be so short sighted as to destroy the whole the place you live just to grovel for the few scraps the coal corporations throw us. We take any bone they throw us and dig with it, we have to eat but there are better ways of getting at the coal without destroying the land for future generations.

                We have large thick seams of underground coal, mine it right and burn it right or leave it in the ground.

                • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/19/2008 1:43:20 PM

                  Also the crushed rock and debris from that MTR reclamation you call beautiful is not "Safer Healthwise" When water leeches through that crushed material you add heavy metals to the stream below the fill. The 400 feet of stream that runs beside my home is dead. No aquatic life and in the summer only green algae. Of course you will probably say this is a good thing since they now can make biofuel out of green algae. The colon cancer rate and other cancers in East Ky and WVa. is an indication of how safe this type of mining is. Of corse your buddy George Bush has weakened all the provisions of the clean water act that might have given us some water that is fit for human consumption. I am glad your husband has a good safe job destroying half a mountain and just pushing half the mountains debris or overburden into a hollow. I am sure the weed mix they spray on the half of the mountain they have to stack back up looks real good. Would probably looked better in a hundred years or so if they had taken a tree inventory and put the original species of trees back on the stacked up overburden. Just think of the heavy metals in your kids drinking water such as arsonic and go back and look at the streams that flow from beneath each hollow fill. If I wanted to live on flat land I would move down to the bluegrass portion of our state. It is natural flat land and is beautiful in its own way. I guess I am genetically predisposed to living in a valley and feel more secure living between two mountains. I do not need or want coal corporations coming in here making thousands of acres of flat land out of mountains and valleys and poisoning fresh water streams. If you can't understand the concept of crushing stone and the leeching process depositing the minerals and heavy metals into your drinking water supply there is no need to take this any further. I know flat land in East Ky. and WVa. is at a premium my 4 acres flat is taxed at a higher rate than my mountain land. Yes I live on the flat land portion of it. I enjoy camping and hiking on the mountain portion and the animals that have made it their home. I look back at the rest of the valley that was covered up and am still sickened by it. I had walked every foot of it and my family had enjoyed it for years before a coal corporation buried it. A big unly 1000 foot tall fill that levels off into scores of acres of flat land. It looks just as ugly from the bottom of it looking straight up as it does when you are right up on the top riding around. I guess knowing what used to be under it is the difference between you and me. 200 years of family and county history and an eco system that took mother nature eons of time to build. You can't just strike it off flat and sow a little weed mix on it and call it reclamation. As a boy I used to drink from that steam that flowed in that hollow. It is not fit for human or animal consumption now.

            • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 10:15:07 PM

              This is cont.I was disconnected.....anyways..I hope the I.Q remark wasnt meant for me?,because that was RUDE if it was.

        • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 6:39:28 PM

          Yes my husband works for a coal corporation,and we are PROUD of it!!!!!!!! I am not the one who needs the spell checker.If you were a sophisticated adult,you wouldn't be making fun of people to start with,stick to the subject and keep your RUDE comments to yourself! There is not much need to try to "argue" with you because from reading your comments you have your mind made up.Yes I have seen the beautiful reclamation work they have done and we are proud of it.

        • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 6:35:40 PM

          Yes my husband works for a coal corporation,and we are PROUD of it!!!!!!!! I am not the one who needs the spell checker.If you were a sophisticated adult,you wouldn't be making fun of people to start with,stick to the subject and keep your RUDE comments to yourself! There is not much need to try to "argue" with you because from reading your comments you have your mind made up.Yes I have seen the beautiful reclamation work they have done and we are proud of it.

        • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/18/2008 6:35:17 PM

          Yes my husband works for a coal corporation,and we are PROUD of it!!!!!!!! I am not the one who needs the spell checker.If you were a sophisticated adult,you wouldn't be making fun of people to start with,stick to the subject and keep your RUDE comments to yourself! There is not much need to try to "argue" with you because from reading your comments you have your mind made up.Yes I have seen the beautiful reclamation work they have done and we are proud of it.

    • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/16/2008 12:20:13 PM

      ONE THING ABOUT IT,US DUMB HILLBILLIES KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SPECIES(THE ORIGIN OF),AND A SPICE(USED FOR FLAVORING FOOD).LOOKS LIKE YOU NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT SQUIRRELS ANS SPELLING AND QUIT TALKIN SMACK ABOUT WV!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/14/2008 1:12:09 PM

    People,if you own a car,tv,computer(which you do cause your on here)and your house is not 100% powered by something other than electricy from coal,SHUT UP!!!Unless you walk to work or ride a bike,dont eat at,work at,hospital at,vacation at,shop at,or anything else that uses electricty from coal,SHUT UP!!!!!!!! My husband is a WV coal miner,have you ever considered the jobs that would be lost if coal shut down?Of course not cause most of you are city people,office workers,that could care less,but this is our LIFE!!!You keep talking about how many people could get sick from this or that,have you ever stopped to consider the lives that are saved every SECOND from ELECTRICTY FROM COAL!!!! NO OF COURSE NOT!! You just want something to gripe about and dont think about anybody but youselves.You can quote all your fancy junk about this and that,but how many times have you heard 1 thing and 3 or4 years later down the road its a complety different story.Nobody knows till enough research has been done and enough hasnt.So like I said,unless your using that computer on solar or wind power,SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: DoseOfReality @ 12/14/2008 4:28:41 PM

      SHUT UP!!!! seems to have just one message for 99.99% of the population and that is SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!. I can appreciate that SHUT UP!!!! depends upon the coal industry for livelihood, and that is fine. But trying to SHUT UP!!!! any discussion of the problem won't solve anything..

      • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/14/2008 10:34:36 PM

        NO ITS NOT THAT I CARE ABOUT PEOPLE DISCUSSING THE PROBLEM,IT WHEN PEOPLE GET ON HERE AND DISCUSS AND ACT LIKE THEY KNOW FOR A FACT AND NOBODY ELSE KNOWS BETTER.I GUESS THIS SITE IS FULL OF A WHOLE LOT OF SCIENTISTS AND SUCH!!

        • Posted By: PeterF @ 12/15/2008 1:15:21 AM

          Oh no, not scientists! Those horrible people and their need to talk about these so called "facts". Yes people will lose their jobs and their lifestyles change, but this has gone on for oh since the beginning of the industrial era. It's called Darwinism (a.k.a. survival of the fittest), either you adapt and you survive or you die.

          • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/16/2008 12:28:35 PM

            That wasnt a put down for scientists,it was a put down for those who THINK they are scientists.And we wouldnt have to learn to survive if people would quit running their mouth about things they dont know about and trying to cause a bunch of junk.Trust me WE KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE!!!!!!MOST PEOPLE ON HERE SHOULD TRY TO WORK IN A COAL MINES ONE TIME AND SEE HOW HARD IT IS AND BEING IN THE WEATHER AND THE DANGER JUST TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A DECENT HOSPITAL CARD FOR YOUR FAMILY,WHICH BY THE WAY WE PAY $ 1.00 A WEEK FOR AND IT IS WONDERFUL.IF ANY OF YOU ARE INTERESTED YOU CAN SEE A NEW MACHINE CALLED A HIGHWALL MINER AND IT GETS THE COAL FROM OUT OF THE MTN. WITHOUT THE MEN GOING INSIDE.ITS ON www.terexshm.com

    • Posted By: smueri @ 12/14/2008 7:57:14 PM

      CABNWEB, I love your comment! Finally someone has the guts to say what needs to be said! I wish you had been around two hundred years ago, then maybe we'd still have the jobs we lost when those ivory-tower liberals abolished the slave trade. Well, we lost those jobs, but we can still save the livelihoods (if not the limbs) of those children making clothes and shoes in the sweatshops of the world. And we need to provide a voice for the diamond industry, who stands to lose hundreds of jobs because Democrats want to regulate them, just because someone throws around the term "genocide".

      See what happens when you elect a Democrat President? Decent, hardworking entrepeneurs stand to lose everything they've made others work so hard for, and for what? So other people might have some sort of quality of life? That's socialism!! I hope you're all happy. I am moving to Somalia, where I hear proud, business-minded conservatives can make a good living in piracy - at least until someone destroys that industry too.

    • Posted By: smueri @ 12/14/2008 7:46:09 PM

      CABNWEB, I love your comment. I wish you had been around in the 1800s, then we wouldn't have lost all of the jobs that relied on the slave trade. After we defeat these tree-hugging, ivory-tower environmentalists, we should go after everyone who wants to curb the diamond trade and destroy an entire industry just because a couple of "warlords" are using the funds to commit genocide. Nobody seems to want to think about the people who might lose their livelihoods if we stopped getting cheap stones! And what about those poor children in the sweatshops of the world, making our shoes and clothes? Can you believe someone wants to actually deny them their jobs?

      Thanks to all these d--n liberals, hard-working people are going to be out of work. I hope you're happy.

    • Posted By: DoseOfReality @ 12/14/2008 4:42:44 PM

      SHUT UP!!!! seems to have just one message for 99.99% of the population and that is SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!SHUT UP!!!!. I can appreciate that SHUT UP!!!! depends upon the coal industry for livelihood, and that is fine. But trying to SHUT UP!!!! any discussion of the problem won't solve anything..

  • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/16/2008 12:17:41 PM

    The truth was in the air aroujd the BeiJing Olympics. If you remember they had to stop driving and shut down the smoke stack industry around Beijing until they let the air clear up in order for people to breath. Athlets from around the world wore mask and some brought their own oxygen with them.
    Scientigic jargon and theory bought by coal corporations are an assault on anyone intelligence with a High School education. But really all you have to do is look at the air in China and see how clean coal really is. There is no such thing as clean coal as of yet. I believe that it can be burned clean when the right technology is applied. The coal corporations instead of wasting millions on false advertising and madison avenue should put the money into clean coal technology and stop trying to sell a pack of lies. You can't create or maintain a market very long based on a lie.

    Wall Street just taught us that !

  • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/16/2008 9:25:49 AM

    If Newsweek or some other major news magazine or new agency would do and investigative report on Mountain Top Removal and Hollow Fills the practice would be exposed for what it is. The problem is that Appalachia is so isolated in places and almost land locked. To get to most of the real problem spots you will have a 3-4 hour drive to get to the site. They say you know you are having a bad day when you wake up and find a 60 Minutes crew on your lawn. I believe if the nation could see what the coal corporations are doing to the Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky and West Virginia they would be so repulsed by it they would force an end to this practice. The sludge and coal slurry ponds used in the coal washing and cleaning process is just as bad when considering stream contamination.
    The problem is with the economy and a two front war knocking about everything else off the news in the visual as well as print media I doubt we will get the situation highlighted until it is to late for Appalachia. Acid rain does not get much attention anymore because the burning of high sulfur coal was prohibited because of the outcry from the people in Canada and the North East. Co2 emissions take center stage now because of all the attention drawn to global warming. Mountain Top Removal will remain a peripheral or back burner issue until some organization draws attention to it at the national level. The deforestation of Appalachia may not be considered as important as the deforestation of the Amazon basin. They say the Amazon forest are the lungs of the planet because they consume co2 and produce oxygen. Albeit the deciduous forest of Appalachia lose their leaves a few months every year I would assume they also absorb co2 spring through late fall. It seems to me we should be saving forest in the U.S proper before we chide the South Americans about cutting their forest down.

  • Posted By: steinny_11 @ 12/15/2008 10:53:29 AM

    America is rich in coal but also rich in technological achievements. If anyone can make coal clean, its this country. We've all heard of carbon capture and sequestration, and I would agree its a nice idea, but whether it works or not may not matter. It justs not cost feasible. The answer is gasifying coal without carbon emissions. Bixby Energy Systems is a company in Minnesoata that has invented a process to gasify coal without any carbon emissions. That's right, they process coal into high quality clean burning natural gas with no carbon emissions. Their process does not use water so no pollution to our precious water supply either. The by-product is activated carbon in which they have another technology to process that into oil, then further refined into diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, etc. It all adds up to a cost effective clean coal technology. That is the answer.

    • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/15/2008 3:24:32 PM

      I agree and we are developing a 30,000 a day plant of the same type/ Of course it will not be online for years and we would need 30 or 40 such plants to supply up to 5% of our present fuel needs. IIf we had started in 74 we might be able to make a dent in our fuel supply needs by now. We also need to mine the coal by underground methods in Appalacha. We employ 4 times more miners this way and it does not destroy the mountains. When you remove a coal seam and a moutain falls a few feet it is just shorter not gone forever along with a valley and a fresh water stream. If they can do MTR out west and call it reclamation they can supply all we need. Its low sulfur and cleaner.
      When Oil is $100 a barrel it is cost effective for us to mine it under ground. We will and can mine it responsibly. We can burn it clean. The technology is there.
      We are beginning to ship coal to china now, they don't care how they burn it. The coal corporations would rather ship it there instead of invest in clean coal technology. They would rather spend their advertising money on lies rather than spend any money on the clean coal technology. They would rather destroy a whole region by MTR than mine it by underground methods and employ a few more men.

  • Posted By: steinny_11 @ 12/15/2008 10:42:28 AM

    America is rich in coal but also rich in technological achievements. If anyone can make coal clean, it is this country. We've heard about carbon capture and sequestration and the problems with it, and I agree, that's not clean coal. Gasifying the coal without carbon emissions is the answer. Bixby Energy Systems is a company in Minnesota that has invented this process. They are gasifying coal with no carbon emissions. That's right, they gasify coal into high quality clean burning natural gas with no carbon emissions from the coal. They don't pollute air or water in their process. The by-product is activated carbon in which they can refine into oil, diesel, jet fuel, gasonline, etc. Bixby has clean coal technology now and it works.

  • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/15/2008 10:34:30 AM

    This has been the coal corporation line ever since they started blowing off the tops of mountains down here and covering up valleys. I live in East Kentucky and was born in a coal company house, we had to shop at a coal company store, my father worked over 33 years in the coal mines and died in one.
    This is how it is, they tell us we can use the flat land they create for us for housing developments. We could put every sub-prime default mortgage property on the flat land they have already created for us. I have as of yet to see one. They say we can put industrial sites on the flat land they create for us. It takes millions of dollars to develop a piece of flat land for an industrial site. Power, sewage, water, road and sometimes rail has to be developed. You have to b close to major rail and transportation hubs for industry to want to build here. We could fill all the industrial land needs for China with the flat land they have already created for us. I don???t know of any and they won???t let us diversify and lose their labor force anyway.
    The artificial flat land you may call beautiful is in the eye of the beholder I guess. They transplant a few Elk from out west to put on this artificial prairie. They don???t like to talk about the 20 or 30 species of native animal that needs a forest that just got their habitat destroyed. The Mountain Top Removal I live under is a blight and an eye sore. It used to be a pristine valley over a mile lone that had mountain grouse, flying squirrel, two spices of tree squirrel, turkey, deer, raccoon, chipmunks, two species of fox, and mountain jacks or jack rabbits along with the standard rabbit. I know I am missing some and not counting the aquatic life that was in that fresh water stream that just got covered up.
    All just to try to make the coal corporations competitive with western coal strip jobs. Out west the large, thick seams of coal lay next to the surface and it is low sulfur. You don???t even have to wash most of it. It is cheaper to just push the overburden into a pristine valley than .to put it back on the original contour as was required in the 1977 Surface Mine Act. I want everyone on this site to know that MTR is a relatively new type of strip mining down here in Appalachia. George Bush by executive order changed the rules and regulations of the Clean Water Act and Surface Mining Act for his coal corporation friends that now allow this. The last round of midnight regulation changes he just rushed through will finish us off and allow the coal corporations free reign to destroy the rest of the Appalachian Mountain chain that has a coal seam.
    This is the most destructive type of mining ever developed, even more destructive than hydraulic mining that was outlawed years ago.

  • Posted By: timorris @ 12/15/2008 10:33:22 AM

    There is currently a clean coal plant being tested in Alliance, Ohio. Its easy for someone with strong beliefs toward climate change to write a story and pass it as fact, I just hope that others do there own research prior to believing or not believing other people's commentary. see link to B & W clean coal project: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2007_March_15/ai_n27304016

  • Posted By: MrChrisRodriguez @ 12/15/2008 10:28:54 AM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_process <---- Convert coal to ultra-clean diesel; CO2 is extracted and stored as a byproduct of the process

    www.syntroleum.com <-- Fischer-Tropsch being executed in the US of A (not that it matters, Sasol as someone else mentioned has been doing it in South Africa for years)

    From wikipedia: "There are investigations underway to reduce CO2 emissions by using solar power to convert waste CO2 into CO from where the FT process can then convert it to hydrocarbons."

  • Posted By: mountain_man @ 12/15/2008 5:23:14 AM

    I agree with Renegade, I live in Eastern Ky, and work in the coalfields. And I like what strip mining does for the land that couldn't be used for much of anything. People can say how bad it is, but I'm just not seeing it. Like I said my parents live on a reclaimed strip mine and it's beautiful!

  • Posted By: BobKincaid @ 12/15/2008 12:29:14 AM

    So, Renegade, taking all of those things at face value, let me ask: how would you like to have your home's foundation destroyed? How would you like to open your kitchen tap and see black liquid flowing out? How would you like to send your kids to school with 2.8 BILLION gallons of carcinogenic coal goo hanging over their heads, held back by a leaking dirt dam? How would you like you and yours to be menaged EVERY DAY by speeding, overloaded coal trucks? How would you like the hills and hollers where you were born and raised turned into moonscapes?

    That's my life in West Virginia. Is THAT alright with you, too? Are West Virginians just not as American as you? Are my grandchildren expendable to you, Renegade?

    You pay a per-kilowatt-hour price for your electricity. WE pay a price with our very lives. Does that matter to you, Renegade?

    I'll wait for your answer.

  • Posted By: zefyr @ 12/15/2008 12:28:59 AM

    It exists. http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/21397/?a=f

  • Posted By: zefyr @ 12/15/2008 12:27:15 AM

    it exists. http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/21397/?a=f

  • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/14/2008 3:07:15 AM

    People,if you own a car,tv,computer(which you do cause your on here)and your house is not 100% powered by something other than electricy from coal,SHUT UP!!!Unless you walk to work or ride a bike,dont eat at,work at,hospital at,vacation at,shop at,or anything else that uses electricty from coal,SHUT UP!!!!!!!! My husband is a WV coal miner,have you ever considered the jobs that would be lost if coal shut down?Of course not cause most of you are city people,office workers,that could care less,but this is our LIFE!!!You keep talking about how many people could get sick from this or that,have you ever stopped to consider the lives that are saved every SECOND from ELECTRICTY FROM COAL!!!! NO OF COURSE NOT!! You just want something to gripe about and dont think about anybody but youselves.You can quote all your fancy junk about this and that,but how many times have you heard 1 thing and 3 or4 years later down the road its a complety different story.Nobody knows till enough research has been done and enough hasnt.So like I said,unless your using that computer on solar or wind power,SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/14/2008 10:07:47 AM

      Is your husband an underground miner or does he work on a strip job. I live in East Kentucky and have mined coal, my father died in the coal mines. I still am a proponent of underground mining but this stripping and Mountain Top Removal has got to stop. All I have ever seen is the real wealth from Ky. and WVa. being hauled out in coal cars and the people who live here surviving on the crumbs. When the last of the coal is gone what will your kids and gran dkids do. The land will be ruined and the coal corporations keep us from diversifying. We mine coal or we have to move out of state for work. They come in at the turn of the last century and stole the mineral and the broad form deed stole the land here in Ky. Damn a coal corporation and there crumb jobs, if we actually got something other than the destruction and misery from it you might could say it was worth the effort. I am not from the city I was raised by a coal miner. Mine it right and burn it clean or leave it in the ground. The country and the world will demand co2 reduction and I don't blame them. You can't destroy the planet just to make out of state coal corporations rich at the expense of our miners and there children. Mountain Top Removal is just the last in a long line of terrible things the coal corporations have done to us. Come back on here and tell me locals own the coal or the coal company if you will. I will can say without knowing you or your location other than the WVa. coal fields that they do not. Exploited bunch of hillbilly's who know no better than to let coal corporations destroy their land just to grovel for the crumbs that fall from their table.

      • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/14/2008 11:04:53 PM

        EVIDENTLY US BUNCH OF HILLBILLYS HAVE MORE SINCE THAN YOU BECAUSE WE ARE GETTING OUR RECLAIMATION DONE RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!SO SHUT UP!!!!!!

      • Posted By: CABNWEB @ 12/14/2008 10:31:34 PM

        My husband does do strip mining and Yes it is owned by a company in the next county.You talk about do what the job is or move,well if everybody done that then you would probably be on here complaining how EVERYONE has left your town and now you have to drive so far to reach a shopping mall because there is not enough population to put the money there.You should do your research on ALL strip mining,cause evidently you have had a bad experience in KY,here in WV,these companies have been doing a wonderful job reclaiming the land.Now there is a golf resort that brings people in from other states,and now they are in the process of building a federal prison which will provide greatly needed NON-coal federal jobs to over 300 people in this county that has not seen revenue like this since the 50's,they are also in the process of building a shopping center on that same piece of land which will be even more jobs,and YES THEY ARE DOING THIS,IT IS NOT EMPTY PROMISES,because the golf course is already finished and the prison will be done in feb.,so just because you have had a bad experience,dont go putting down the whole corporation!!!!!!!!!!I will be nice and not say what you all know I want to say.LOL P.S. IF YOU WANT HEALTHCARE IN WV,BET YOU WILL WORK IN COAL

      • Posted By: PompeyRoad @ 12/14/2008 10:24:36 AM

        By the way I know the difference between there and their and where each belong is a sentence. IIt just makes me so mad to think about how we sing the company line and will allow anything just to keep tho few dangerous jobs the coal corporations throw us. We will take any bone they throw us and dig with it because we have to. It still does not make Mountain Top Removal and Valley fills right. Try this crap out west or in New England states. Try it in the Malibu hills or the Sierra Mountain Range. What makes us so gulible and stupid that its ok to come down here to appalachia and do it. Please excuse the grammar and the typo's, I get upset and make mistakes just thinking about it.

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