Southern Comfort

Hear, Hear good sir. I completely agree. Imagine a country that has over twice the population of the U.S., twice the density, and twice the degree of transportation and communications network integration, with end-to-end rapid rail networks, a more diverse and globally successful auto-racing culture and infrastructure, and entire cities connected by wi-fi technology.

That country is the EU.

Naturally, they have the adaptability, and R&D potential to produce more innovative cars, and for the time being, the market is going to have to adjust to their comparative advantage.

The Big Three will not go under completely, but this severe contraction is simply due to the fact that the Cold-War American idea of striving to be the biggest, strongest, and most powerful in everything we do...and in the cars we make...is simply NOT MARKETABLE to the rest of the world, which seems to have its priorities in order.

GM Ford and Chrysler need to do some soul searching, and I wouldn't be angry if we simply convert the interstate highway into emergency air landing space, and replaced it with a maglev network. I know I'm being ridiculous, but for the time-being, the bailouts of the Big Three should not come without the requirement that they significantly rearrange their business model and their external contributions to society. That's not to say that they haven't already given so much. That said, however, I want to see Ford, GM, and Chrysler at the forefront of Hydrogen fuel-cell research and technology. Until that happens, my first car will PROBABLY NOT BE AMERICAN. Sorry.

We should lead by example, not force.

Was GM not looking into buying out Chrysler just before the house of cards fell in on the criminal banking industry. If they were SO cash strapped who would even think of such a venture. The key word is IF!!!!!!! America and the rest of the so called FREE MARKET world, should be focusing on the SMOKE AND MIRRORS ACCOUNTING that most big buisness is ALLOWED to use. Soon chapter 11 will be the main stay of any plant that has a strong union. By using this or threatening it, people will be forced to take much less while the leaders get more. The easiest way for corporate leaders to get a highier performance bonus is to LOWER wages of his employees or move production off shore. Those of you that work in the public sector must remember that if wages fall in the private sector there will be no tax base to pay you so downward we ALL GO. The South auto employees remember if the big three go chapter 11 and come out with lets say paying 15hr no benifits and Detroit says hey Toyota, Honda etc. we will give you millions to move here and we have lower wages, they will say to you take 10hr or where gone ...GET IT. I gave 19 years to one company and they were my best years ( MY YOUTH) and they closed us. Then the next 8 years to another company only to see it close even though they were all hyped telling us about the china market ( THATS WHERE THEY BUILT A PLANT). The three plants where I was offered full time work have now closed their doors, so if I stayed at any one of these I would be in the same boat. Between my wife and I we have lived through 4 JOB LOSSES and are on the brink of our 5th My answer to this is, as a nation BUY your products from companies that employ your own people. If we ALL did this then manufacturing would have to stay in country even though proffits would be less for the BIG INVESTORS we would have JOBS staying here. People of the world economy can say that the only way to get cheap products and HIGH PROFITS is by doing buisness with china or 3rd world nations that will pimp out their people for less and less. But in the end they shoot themselves in the foot because once they have brought us down to a level where we cannot or will not spend on these products they will move on to the next best thing and leave us fighting for scraps. WE HAVE THE POWER TO STOP THIS but we need to come together NOW!!!!!! I would love for someone to tell me that I'm wrong and the path we are on is the best way to make the majority of the population ( THE MIDDLE / LOWER CLASS) standard of living better but so far I don't see it.

I'm in shock at how people are fighting to lower their standard of living. Yes the auto industry makes good money for hard stressful work ( don't judge till you walk in their shoes) and they buy products that keep others working. So we want or demand they make less, so they stop buying and then those who depended on that money coming in will have to lay off or pay less, get the picture. The south car plant workers owe their wage and working conditions to unions because if it were not for the threat of unions these companies would give very little and take total advantage of their work force ( its starting to happen again). We tend to look in others back yard and complain they are the problem, soon they will look at yours, so lets just for a minute look UP to see how things are being run. Stop the GREED (control) up top and the rest will equal itself out. The elite love how they have us fighting with each other instead of holding their feet to the fire. We are their pupets on a banking string ...STAND TOGETHER (because as they want us) DIVIDED WE FALL!! BUY AMERICAN made products, you pay more but its helping your country and in the end YOU. I'm Canadian and feel the same in my country. You are a great nation but will wilt away under the control of these so called leaders. It is up to you to stand up and regain control of your democracy. REMEMBER.....FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE

CEO'S ARE THE BLAME FOR EVERYTHING , EXPECTING THERE "GOLDEN PARACHUTES ".
YOU THINK YOU CAN LIVE OFF THE LESS INCOME , YOU'VE A RUDE AWAKENING , NOT TRUE.
OVER 10 MILLION PEOPLE ARE LAID OFF FOR MONTHS NOW , BIG 3 DOESNT GET HELP ADD ANOTHER
7 MILLION TO THAT , NOT COUNTING MILLIONS OTHERS . 20 - 30 MILLION PEOPLE WILL BE LAID OFF
TELL ME , WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO FOUND A JOB ??????? MIDDLE CLASS CITIZENS ARE THE
ONES WHO NEEDS THE HELP , WHY , BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES WHO WORKS THE HARDEST .
PLAIN AND SIMPLE ............IF OBAMA WANTS TO HELP , HE COULD GIVE ALL CITIZENS 21 YEARS OLDER
A STIMULUS PACKAGE FOR $500,000 , BELIEVE ME THAT WILL HELP , THAT WOULD PAY OFF , MORTGAGES,
CAR PAYMENTS , COLLEGES PAYMENTS , OR STAY FOR COLLEGE , IT WOULD HELP THE ECONOMY FASTER
AND EVERY CITIZEN WOULD APPRECIATE IT . PLUS THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON THAT AMOUNT
BUT AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE HELPED............

United States Citzens are being sold out by FOREIGNERS , the blame too should be against ALL COMPANIES
WHO WENT GLOBAL , NAFTA WAS A HUGE MISTAKEN , NOW LOOK WHAT WE'RE IN A HUGE MESS .
LOWER WAGES ( HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SURVIVE ON LOW WAGES???)
LOW WAGES YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUY CARS , OR ANYTHING ELSE .
YOUR COLLEGE EDUCATION , DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING , WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY .

I see the point trying to be made about price, but that's not entirely accurate.

Price is nothing more than information. You see 2 pens in a store; 1 pen is $40, the other is $15. Without any further investigation, we know that the more expensive pen has something extra that the seller deems to be of added value. Over the course of time if this pen is able to stay on the market, then this means that others considered this extra value to be present in the $40 pen as well.

As it is right now, American cars are not capable of being sold for a high enough price to pay to warrant a profit. Period.

They're selling for roughly the same price as their equivalent foreign competition. But the foreign cars are better. If Detroit could sell their avg sedan for substantially less than the foreign competition, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Or, if they could make a better car, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But both scenarios hinge on price. If the laborers were getting paid what their skills are actually worth in the market place, they could sell their cars for less. If the companies weren't paying such astronomically high costs for retirement bennies, they could sell their cars for less. If they made better cars, they could sell for the same price but for a profit.

What all of these union wage bashing stories miss is that the union wages are not the real problem. If it were then American car manufacturers would be out of the market based solely on price. The following article shows that is simply not true:

http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/10_cheapest.01.htm

The problem has been lack of quality, innovation and product development. These problems are the result of poor management. One of the suggestions I read was that management take a 50% pay cut (including stock and other non-salary benefits) along with the union workers wage cuts. And that management's pay be directly tied to company performance. Anything less simply penalizes the 'easy target' without really trying to solve the problem.

If the companies keep the same leadership doing the same thing, why would we expect a bailout to yield different results?

Discernment, you mean with the Big 3 gone, foreign auto makers would raise the price of a car past what we could reasonably afford to buy? How would they stay in business themselves?

VERY GOOD ARTICLE MR. DANIEL GROSS . . . HOWEVER . . .

However, I stand by my decision to support the American Big-3 auto-manufacturers. Not because I'm blind to Big-3's gargantuan short-comings, but because I know the outcome if Detroit's Big-3 goes out of business. And it is far, far worst.

The outcome of Big-3's disappearance is best illustrated with the nation's current oil addiction from foreign oil producing nations like Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and OPEC nations. Once the Big-3 disappears, the foreign auto-manufacturers will control supplies and raise prices at will - - very much like OPEC and foreign oil producing nations do today. The U.S. 251-million auto drivers will cry foul when foreign auto-manufacturers have their way with a nation that has the most car owners per capita. When the price of car ownership suddenly jumps 2-to-4 times the current rate, it will be too late to rejuvenate the Big-3. With foreign auto-manufacturers owning the car market and Big-3 gone, obtaining a new automobile will be as tough as obtaining a suitable brand new home. That means most middle-class workers will be buying 20-year-old clunkers for their first car when they are in their 30's. No more getting brand new cars when you are 16, because the foreign manufacturers will have hiked the prices out of reach for the average Joe, because the Big-3 competitors are gone. U.S. car ownership may not be as bad as Cuba where only 1% of the population owns their own vehicle, but U.S. citizens will definitely feel it when foreign auto-manufacturers own America's auto sales market.

IDK I AM ON THE FENCE WHEN YOU SEE TOYOTA HAVING ISSUES ALSO , IT WOULD SEEM ITS NOT ALL GMS FAULT SO NOW WHAT , EVERYONE DOES NEED HELP IN THIS CURRENT CRISIS , WHATS NEXT MALL OPERATORS ? GAP ? CIRCIUT CITY ? SO HARD TO CHOOSE

These foreign companies are also being hit by the economy, and pitting southern states against northern states started two centuries before they arrived. The real problem is how the government set up the American auto makers, allowing them to sell outmoded unsafe technology through lax rules for SUVs and pickup trucks. This kind of government interference in the market is no different than what the Soviets did and the results are the same: inventory that people won't buy. Once we stop this interference we get a level playing field and American companies (whose quality control is better these days and whose value proposition is excellent) can address the demand side of the equation. In the short term, we need to get those cars off of the lots and pay auto workers so that the economy does not get even worse. The new administration should figure this out and get going on it.

We are all so blind to what has been happening over the last 20 or so years. While the foreign automakers have been being smart, the US automakers have been getting fat and happy at our expense. The UAW has to go and their CEO's should go to jail with all the other thiefs that have created this mess. The general public wanted gas guzzling trucks and SUV's in their infinite vanity.Now we must pay the price. Pull the plug and reboot. And oh by the way, where were your fine politicians? They should have fought harder to bring them to Detroit and the other northern industrial areas. Too much pressure? Too late to wake up, the bus has left.

Posted By: Kuni_Leml @ 12/17/2008 9:14:38 PM

Let???s end the handouts these moocher Red States keep getting.

I notice that Alabama gets $1.66 from the federal government for every $1.00 it contributes; while Michigan contributes more than it gets back.

Yet the senator from Alabama has the gall to tell the auto industry to go screw itself when it asks for help in dealing with the fallout from Bush???s failed rightwing economic polices that the senator from Alabama helped enable.

We should take all the money we send to these mooches in states like Alabama that have a long history of getting more than they contribute and send it to Detroit instead.

And tell these mooches that they need to restructure their states before they see any extra $. Maybe if their citizens had Unions and made a decent wage they wouldn???t need to mooch.


Call Roger Kerson ??? PR Dir. UAW @ (313) 926-5000 and point out the above and tell the UAW it needs to get on the offensive regarding this issue.

Have you taken a look at GM's balance sheet? It is a cadaver. The terms of essentially wiping out the shareholders and swapping the debt for new equity, and making the UAW related costs come into line with the transplants is the recipe required. If this course isn't taken, then these fools are going to see the worst happen and we will have messy liquidations. There is such huge upside for everyone if the right things happen, but no one is that lucky.