The Bible and Gay Marriage

but this whole debate is essentially rendered obsolete by the doctrine of separation of church and state, an ideal that this country and its government were based on T_T

evertdanny67 homosexuality has nothing to do with loving. It is a rebelling against God who plainly said that a gay lifestyle is an abomination. A man having sex with a man has nothing to do with love just as much as a man having sex with a child or a woman having sex with a dog has nothing to do with love. It is called carnality, lust of the flesh, pervertedness, or just plain sin.

If you are going to take everything in the Bible literally, then women need to wear head cover every time they pray, women would not be allowed to serve in any manner in the church, and most would be stoned to death before they reach adulthood! No you cannot pick and chose, so all of these laws from the Bible would have to be followed too. Things change, stop hating and judging, start accepting and loving!
DEvert, McAllen Texas

I have been a fan of Jon Meacham since his arrival at the Editor's Desk. I have spoken often and in glowing terms of his fairness and his intellectual honesty until his setup column for Lisa Miller's cover article, "The Religious Case for Gay Marriage." The column was a travesty---not fair and not intellectually dishonest. Does he really believe that those who regard the Bible as "the final authority and unchangeable standard for the Christian faith and life" represent "the worst kind of fundamentalism?" Really?
Join the club, Ted Koppel. He had it right in his oft-repeated commentary on contemporary society: "Our society finds Truth too strong a medicine to digest undiluted. In its purest form Truth is not a polite tap on the shoulder; it is a hallowing reproach. What Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai were not the Ten Suggestions, they are Commandments. Are, not were. The sheer brilliance of the Ten Commandments is that they codify, in a handful of words, acceptable human behavior. Not just for then or now but for all time."
That's what is really at issue here? Are there rights and wrongs worthy of being considered. Is it wrong to want to be right if you believe there is a right to be discovered? Or, should we not worry about what is right or what is wrong at all? Or perhaps the problem is that there is no right or wrong to be discerned or no Someone whose opinion matters above our own so what is wrong is to believe anything very much at all. Maybe they are just the Ten Suggestions after all. Why should we consider them at all? And ultimately, maybe we should all shut up and let Meacham decide for us what is Truth or whether it even exists. That's what is maddening about such debates. Even from someone as respectable as Jon Meacham the ultimate weapon resorted to is the pejorative. Don't discuss issues seriously, just label the opposition---its quicker and easier that way.
Would the labeling be the same if the scriptures in question were the Koran? Or the Bhagavad Gita? Maybe. That's probably the point---" Don't believe anything too much. It might contradict what someone else might believe." Shame on you, Jon. That was neither fair nor intellectually honest.
Shame on you, Jon.

I still have a tough time discerning how a religion editor could avoid such a simple scripture in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Take your pick of translations - mine is New American Standard. 'Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God'.

How much clearer does God have to be? We cannot pick and choose what we desire to believe. It doesn't mean that God doesn't love homosexuals or any of the other sins listed in the above passages. It just means you don't continue in that sin and expect to inherit the kingdom of God. We must put away those things from our lives and seek that relationship with Christ that enables us to live according to His holiness. DO NOT BE DECEIVED!!

Those who belong to Christ will do his will. The law is for sinners that live in the dark and evil. Those who do not repent of their sins and have Christ the center of their life have already condemned themselves.

Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition , dissensions, fractions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I wan you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

To love Him with all our mind, heart, and soul also to love our neighbor as we love ourselves is to be His witness, to share with everyone that there is a day when Christ is coming there will be wrath and judgment against all sinners.

To love myself I do not want to burn in Hell. I do believe there is a God. That he sent his only begotten son to die. He paid the price for our sins. I praise God for sending me someone that cared enough to share God???s gift. That if I choose to turn away from my sins and let Him be the center of my life. To repent of my sins and be cleansed into a newborn life with Christ.

I thought I was a good person but when I was asked to answer a few questions I soon found out that I wasn???t , that I wasn???t even living a life of a true Christian

The questions were:
1. Have you ever lied? Yes what does that make you? A liar
2. Have you ever stole? Even if it was little? Yes what does that make you? A thief
3. Have you ever committed adultery? God says a woman that looks at a man with her eyes and lust in her mind has committed adultery. Yes.

So at my own admission that makes me a lying ,thieving ,adulterous at heart and those are just three commandments that I have been breaking.

God says if you do not obey the commandments that you will not inherit the kingdom of God. God is a good God and he will not be passive.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God???s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death. They not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law

Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

I do not want to go to HELL. I do not want my loved ones, friends, and neighbors to go to HELL. I want eternal life in that great kingdom. So! I will share the GIFT! Tina A.

and if you really were a bible studying person, profbarber, you would know that the Lord also talks about RIGHTEOUS judgment. You wouldn't want your children hanging out in a bad group full of gothic pot heads. I think any good parent would try to get their child out of a situation like that,

Matthew 7:1-5, the words of Christ himself, dear Christian brothers and sisters: "Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. For with the judgment you use, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye but don't notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and look, there's LOG (emphasis is my own) in your own eye? HYPOCRITE (emphasis, again, my own)! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Simply answer the question as to WHY CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS. It was because it is not possible to follow every single law...we need grace, especially divorced Christians, or adulterous Christians, and especially those who think it is there business to judge everyone else. Homosexuality didn't even make the top ten commandments from the legal perspective. But please, please remember that Jesus Christ brought a message of love and reconciliation between God and men..."Peace on Earth, and Good will to men..." And He gave His life to make that possible. If you think you can get there...heaven...by what you do...then Christ died in vain. What he wanted most from us is to follow the greatest Commandment...Matthew 22:37-40: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest AND MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT (emphasis is my own). The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS DEPEND ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS." (emphasis, again, my own) If we knew how to love perfectly, we would never have needed the law. Gay individuals who love each other do not need a law. If God is love, and love is between them, then God is there. Only the hatred of those who do not know how to live by the commandment of love defeats the Cross...so Christians, beware of your own snare.

The people who kick out and vilify Gay Christians and Gay marriage are the same people who don't breathe a word about all the divorced people, if we are going to point fingers, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality but he did say something about divorce and yet most Christians have no problem with divorced and remarried Christians in their church. The word homosexuality wasn't even in the Bible until the King James version, most of the sexual practices the Bible talked about had to do with the pagan rituals of Baal and other gods, God specifically told the Jews that there was only one God and He would not tolerate them worshipping other gods or idols like the Golden calf in the desert during their trek to the promised land. Most Bible scholars even recognize the the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't homosexuality or sodomy, God had already warned Abraham about the wickedness of those cities but said He would spare them if Abraham could find 10 upright people which of course he couldn't Lot and his family didn't number 10 and so they escaped but of course Lot's wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt. You can't just pick and choose verses that suit you. God made gays, lesbians, and trans people just as we are, the Bible says he knew us before we were born. I can't believe he would make us this way and then say our way of life is sinful, it just doesn't jiove. More and more science is proving we are born this way, it's not a choice,people are idiots you think if we had a choice to be reviled and beaten and murdered because of who we are andf that's what all your preaching about us being abominations means that other people think then that they can kill us. Look on the internet sometime, go to Remembering Our Dead on the Internet and see and look up on the Internet how many GLBT people get beaten and murdered every year. As long as Christians preach these hate messages you will continue to have the blood of GLBT people on your hands.

The Bible contains no less than sixteen separate passages dealing directly with this particular sin and several more which refer to it indirectly.
Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17-18, Judges 19:22, I Kings 14:24, I Kings 15:11-12, II Kings 23:7, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Hosea 9:9, Hosea 10:9, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9, I Timothy 1:9-10, II Peter 2:6 and Jude 1:7
The events referenced in Genesis 19 took place within the city of Sodom which was destroyed by God because of its wickedness. Homosexual behavior played such a prominent role in Sodom???s destruction that the city???s name has become a synonym for homosexuality.
The two passages in Leviticus are undoubtedly two of the most direct condemnations of homosexual behavior to be found in the Bible, and Ms. Miller was quick to present her belief that these are ???throwaway lines??? from a ???peculiar book??? and that her ???modern understanding of the world has surpassed its prescriptions.??? What she has neglected to mention is that these same ???throwaway??? passages also condemn adultery, bestiality, incest, and child sacrifice. I do not know if Ms. Miller has a family of her own, but I would imagine that if she did she would strongly disapprove of their involvement in any of these behaviors. However, Ms. Miller???s opinion on the application of these verses to today???s society really doesn???t prove her case at all. The simple fact still remains that, in spite of her desires to the contrary, the Bible does indeed condemn homosexuality as sin.
In Deuteronomy 23:17-18, the Bible once again condemns homosexuality as an abomination.
The men of Gibeah mentioned in Judges 19 and Hosea 9 and 10 were known for their homosexual behavior just like the men of Sodom. The Bible refers to these men as being deeply corrupted and warns that God will judge those who likewise corrupt themselves.
The passages in first and second Kings further condemn homosexuality in referring to that behavior once again as an abomination and in praising those who removed that sin from the nation of Israel.
In Ezekiel chapter 16, God said that he saw the destruction of Sodom as a good thing because of the abomination which they had committed.
The passage in Romans chapter 1 is, in fact, dealing directly with the topic of ???gay love,??? (Paul refers to it as ???vile affections???). That this is not simply a reference to the Roman emperors is evidenced by the statement in verse 18 that Paul is referring to all the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. It???s also rather obvious that the condemnation of lesbianism found in verse 26 could not be a reference to the actions of Rome???s male emperors.
I Corinthians 6 and I Timothy 1 both state very plainly that homosexuals (abusers of themselves with mankind) are unrighteous and lawless.
II Peter 2:6 and Jude 1:7 both explain that the people of Sodom were destroyed because of their homosexual behavior as an example to the rest

Rev. J. Brian Bransfield, Incoming Executive Director
Secretariat of Evangelization and Catechesis
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
Washington, D.C. look at who he is a Evangelist which they have proven to be the biggest crooks of our country, preying on others insecurities sucking millions of dollars from them who believe they can buy their way to salvation. I am a Christian and I am who God made me. No one can ever take my belief away. I was not brought here to judge others which the BIBLE states for me not to judge others. But for some reason the so called men of the cloth believe they have that right. And again no where in the BIBLE does it state that 2 of the same sex can not be married.
I married my best friend for whom I love and trust, which so happens to be a male which is the same sex. As I would hope to believe you and others married your best friend to love and trust and not for sexual lust and desires.
I am sorry but the majority of you evangelist are no more than blood suckers of money with beliefs you are better than others and what you say is completely the truth in which all (are) or should believe . Sorry to inform you but that little 3 lb thing inside your head is not always correct. I guess you can also go by the name of Jim Jones, the Waco Guy or Whaco, or would a more suitable name be Charles Manson AKA Helter Skelter.
So basically you are saying, when you come to see me with a bullet shot to the chest or where ever, cardiac arrest, respiratory distress, uncontrollable bleeding and with my knowledge, if I do not do something you will die. So you are giving me the right to stop and ask you do you believe in same sex marriage? ( Since I believe all have the right to marry regardless of sex) which you do not. And you say no, then you are giving me the right to decide if you live or die.
Think about it before you judge others.

Chris
Los Angeles, Ca.

All the same agree that the family is the union of the man and the woman for a continuation of the family. Other is a partnership, a civil marriage or as still, but only not a family. I do not trust neither in God, nor in a Satan!

I applaud Newsweek for the article on gay marriage. So many "Christians" are quick to say that Lisa Miller "selectively references biblical instances of polygamy and abusive conduct to attempt to show that marriage was never intended to be only the union of one man and one woman", but is that not what these "Christians" do to try to prove the opposite? The fact is that the world has gotten so caught up in the societal view of religion, denonmination, and what it means to be a Christian that we are failing to recognize just how many of us are going to hell for things such as condemnation, hate and ridiculous discrimination. We should all take a look at how the Bible describes love, and know that when love is demonstrated the way it is suppose to be demonstrated I find it hard to believe that anyone could perish for that. I love God with a fire like no other and I love my girlfriend with respect and purity. People are afraid ofwhat they know exist, and fear is sending people to hell everyday. No one really knows what God meant when He said anything. All we can do is draw our own interpretation, or the interpretation of what we have been taught to believe from our priests, pastors, preachers, peers, parents, whomever. I refuse to be placed in a box because society is uncomfortable with the happy and fulfilling life that I am living, while half feel stuck in their dead-end heterosexual marriages. Take a look at the divorce rate and then try debating the sanctity of marriage. Heterosexuals are ruining that sanctity everyday. Live your life people. Because it doesn't last forever. And if you can look at yourself in the mirror before you go to bed at night and be okay with the life you lived that day, no one can argue with that.
Sham Williams

I HAVE RELATIVES WHO ARE GAY AND WHO I LOVE DEEPLY ... BUT I DO SEE THE DESPAIR AND UNHAPPINESS THAT COMES WITH IT ! EVERYONES OWN SELF IS THEIR WORST ENEMY , WHICH IS WHERE WE FIND OUR WEAKNESSES/BAD HABITS/SINS/MISTAKES (WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT) ... WHICH IS ALSO WHERE WE CAN FIND OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST TO INTERVENE ! I KNOW THAT WHEN I OPEN MY HEART TO HIM & DO THINGS HIS WAY I CAN IMPROVE MYSELF AND GO THROUGH ANY OBSTACLE THAT LIFE BRINGS OR FAILURES THAT I MIGHT BRING UPON MYSELF ! MY POINT IS THAT IT IS WRONG TO ACCEPT AND EXCUSE THE PROBLEM ... THE ANSWER IS TO FIND OUT HOW TO FIX THE CORE FROM WHICH THE PROBLEM STEMS ! IT USUALLY BEGINS WITH TROUBLES AND INSECURITIES THAT ARE BROUGHT UPON US IN OUR YOUTH ... I'VE SEEN IT FIRST HAND IN MY CASE/CASES AND I SEE IT ALSO IN MY GAY RELATIVES ... I KNOW THEM AND ABOUT THEM INSIDE AND OUT AND I KNOW THAT THEY ARE HIDING AND/OR COVERING UP SO MUCH INSIDE INSECURITIES WHILE FINDING COMFORT IN OTHER TROUBLED NUMBERS ! ITS SAD AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THAT HIDDEN PAIN ... AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT IS THAT WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRULY HAPPY AND FILLED THEN YOU DON'T WANT OTHERS TO BE HAPPY ! WHICH IS THE CASE IN CALIFORNIA SINGLING OUT A CERTAIN CHURCH OR GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ONLY MAKE UP 1-2% OF THE POPULATION IN CA WHEN IT WAS THE VOTE/VOICE OF AN ENTIRE STATE COMMUNITY (OVER 50%) THAT USED THEIR FREEDOM AND RIGHT TO VOTE (THAT EVERYONE IS ALWAYS SUGGESTING WE USE) THAT WON FAIRLY -
I SEE A LOT OF UNHAPPINESS IN AMERICAS NEAR FUTURE IF WE AS THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION DONT LEARN TO BLAME OURSELVES FOR OUR OWN BAD HABITS AND LEAN ON THE SAVIOR WHO CAN BUILD US UP TO WHO WE COULD ONLY BE WITH HIS COMPANIONSHIP ------------------------------------ GIOVANNI-----------------SIN CITY , NEV

Thank you Gayle Berthold from Ravenna OH for that stunninly eloquent entry on 12/22/08.
Read this one people. This entry says it all.

Lisa Miller states that according to what the Bible teaches about love, gay marriage is ordained by God, and only "serious" people can undersand that. "Silly" people, then, would need to be content knowing that God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts. Maybe, when we choose to eat from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we chose to learn the hard way. I believe the Bible was inspired by God and written by man to tell the story of God's relentless pursuit of His wayward people; that God's Spirit iswith us to help us understand His Word in order to bring us into a full relationship with Himself and into right relationships with each other. Although, God is still speaking, the Bible does end with a very large period. Inclusiveness, as some church denominations have agreed to uphold, is worthy of our intentions, as all people are precious to God and He has paid a great ransom for them. But, as we live in an imperfect world, inclusiveness can also cause division. If the Christian community is to be set apart from the world to become a beacon unto the Kingdom of God, how can our differences be resolved? Although the world is changing, it has not always been for the better. The American dream has been trampled on and we are leaving our children at the crossroads. Gay people contribute much to society and we can learn from their struggles. But is practicing homosexuality really okay with God? Maybe that should be left between God and the homosexual. Does the chruch as a whole need to condone homosexual activity to make it sacred for committed homosexual partners? What does scripture really say about Love? Our Lord and Savior has shown us that it is about sacrifice, and that our redemption should not be taken lightly. We are fearfully and wonderfully made as Miller has quoted from Psalm 139. Although our physical being needs attending to, our innermost heart is where we live and God knows us more than we do ourselves. He shows compassion on our imperfections so that we may give it to others. Contrary to what Miller has written, what happens in the bedroom of our hearts does deeply matter. Perhaps our differences in the Christian community regarding gay marriage has a purpose. If an angel of the Lord were to appear to us, what might he or she say? To the extreme right, he might say, "Do not become so absorbed with the Law that you cannot find Love." To the extreme left, she might say, "Do not become so lost in Love that you forget about the Law." We might respond, "How can we do this?" For our mutual joy, may we pray the Spirit come upon us and the Most High overshadow us, and may the Holy Child enlighten our hearts. Gayle Berthold, Ravenna, Oh.