The Fed Who Blew the Whistle

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: Ian in LR @ 12/15/2008 3:43:42 PM

    Tamm was right in doing what he did. The FBI should be investigating all those who knew of the program and DIDN'T blow the whistle, including those who intitiated it. As Ben Franklin said, "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." This administration's attitude of arrogance and disdain towards our laws is embarrassing as well as criminal. If there was a problem with the FISA court not being able to process requests quickly enough then the system should have been overhauled - not bypassed. Using the pretext of "national security" as a shield against any oversight or accountability is the epitomy of irony. When a government authorizes rendition programs and spying on its own citizens (without enough evidence to get a "real" court order) then I would say our security may be more threatened from within than without. The message, from this same government, after 9/11 that we should continue with our lives as normal so that the terrorists wouldn't "win" seems to have been lost on the very people who came up with it.

    Its funny that this article has come out in conjunction with the opening of Frost/Nixon. The scene where Nixon states that "if the president does it, it isn't illegal" comes to mind. I'm afraid this violation by the current administration is only the tip of an iceberg and we will undoubtedly learn of much more in the years ahead. The Bush / Cheney apologists will (continue to) have their work cut out for them.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:38:54 PM

      When Nixon said "if the President does it, it isn't legal" shocked the nation 40 years ago. Today it seems that most Americans believe that.

      How very far we've fallen...

  • Posted By: fisher35 @ 12/15/2008 3:50:55 PM

    As an engineer who has held a Department of Defense Secret or Top Secret security clearance for many years and as an American citizen who does not really want our nations secrets turned over to the New York Times, our enemies, or anyone else who is not authorized, I am incensed at your attempted justification for this slob ILLEGALLY releasing this classified information. If there is proof that he did this, he should be arrested and tried. You make it sound like he was a good old boy who was just trying to help. He is a CRIMINAL if he did release this information to the New York Times. Partisanship does not have a place when it comes to the security of our country. Shame on you and anyone who tries to protect this guy!

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 3:55:23 PM

      "Shame on you and anyone who tries to protect this guy!"

      Shame on you for trying to protect a rogue agency.

      • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:18:24 PM

        Feel free to ignore the fact that the information he released was about our government "ILLEGALLY" and unconstitutionally spying upon its own citizens without a search warrant, in clear violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution (you know, that whole pesky "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." thing), and in clear violation of their own oaths of office.

        Feel free to focus your ire on the guy pointing out the treason and lawbreaking, and ignore the people actually breaking the supreme law of the land.

        Yes, shame on us, indeed.

        • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:37:55 PM

          Erm, my reply should have been to hingalis, not to HB.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 3:54:48 PM

      So you're okay with your government weaseling around amendment IV and the FISA laws?

  • Posted By: hingalls @ 12/15/2008 4:02:58 PM

    Tamm also took oaths to protect the very information he holds and take appropriate action, meaning by law, to reprot any discrepancies and he did not do that.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:06:41 PM

      You need to go back to civics class.

      The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, superseding all other laws. How else could the Supreme Court strike down duly-passed laws on the basis that they're unconstitutional?

      Mann definitely broke the law. But if he was upholding the Constitution, that point is moot. Even if it were NOT moot, to punish Mann but let the people responsible for mangling the Fourth Amendment go scot free is insane.

      Punishing the whistleblower is NOT a trend we want to encourage.

      • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:34:06 PM

        Sorry, Tamm, not Mann. Wonder why I keep typoing that?

  • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 2:24:28 PM

    This son of a bitch needs to go to jail for treason! As someone who was "read on" to high level information, he signed an agreement with his employer (the US Government) that he would not disclose information that he has been trusted with. I say give him the chair!

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:52:27 PM

      So you feel that it is perfectly okay to conceal crimes simply by slapping a classification on them?

      You can't see what the results of that would be?

      • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 3:22:48 PM

        It's called "need to know".

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 3:41:24 PM

          You don't need to know when your government is breaking the law?

          How servile of you.

          • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 4:03:06 PM

            No. And how ignorant of you.

            • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:19:34 PM

              Really, that's your answer? You don't need to know when the government is breaking the law?

              All pi**ing matches aside, that's REALLY what you want to go with? Carte blanche, that it's okay for the gov. to break the law?

              REALLY?

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 4:07:07 PM

              No, seriously. Can you even walk upright?

              • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 4:11:46 PM

                And I hold my head up high too? I take it you don't? Otherwise you wouldn't be asking.

                • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 4:16:46 PM

                  No, you don't hold your head high. You are a slave.

    • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 2:41:53 PM

      Ay-men!

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:53:07 PM

        Heh. I was waiting to hear you say that they should execute his daughter, too.

        That'll teach him.

  • Posted By: hingalls @ 12/15/2008 3:53:12 PM

    Tamm did wrong by not following policy and procedures. He gave up classified inforamtion. He did report to his supervisors who did not repsond. There are avenues in place like a hotline that he should have called. It is non-government and would ave followed protocol to investigate. He actually did more harm then good.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:07:55 PM

      So "policy and procedure" now trumps the Constitution? So not embarrassing your superiors is now more important than the supreme law of the land?

      What planet do you live on?

  • Posted By: chillfour@yahoo.com @ 12/15/2008 5:07:20 PM

    Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby, and many others in the Bush administration are the ones who should be in hot water for all the treasonous actions they have taken. Tamm is a man who saw something illegal and fought within himself about what to do. He took action and is therefore a man of honor and integrity. That is exactly what we need restored in America. Out go the criminals, in come the ones who will fix things and hopefully make good decisions for all of us.

  • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 2:27:55 PM

    What he did was commit treason! Why are you applauding someone who should be executed for his crime? When her was "read on" to the information he was, he signed a Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement (CINA). It spelled out with great clarity what would happen if he disclosed classified information. Execute this SOB.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:50:57 PM

      Signing a security clearance does not obligate one to cover up crimes.

      And you say he should be executed for speaking out when a crime was taking place? How very odious and servile.

      • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 3:23:50 PM

        Yep. What he did was criminal.

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 3:42:44 PM

          No, if he HADN'T spoken up, it would have been criminal. Misprison of Felony, to be precise.

          • Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/15/2008 5:07:01 PM

            Treason is treason no matter how you choose to color it.

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 12/15/2008 3:36:35 PM

      So if we are executing Tamm for revealing that he thought the government was committing illegal acts - not, mind you, that he knew what those acts were or who exactly was involved, just that something illegal was going on - how is that Cheney, et al gets a free pass for deliberately leaking the name of a CIA agent to the newspapers?

      Seems to me that deliberately giving up an agent's name to get back at her husband is a far more serious breach of security, not to mention ethics, than reporting general concerns that something very illegal was going.

      So if we are going to execute Tamm, a pretty drastic punishment, what's left for Cheney and his gang of evil men?

      Can we execute someone twice?

  • Posted By: soggy @ 12/15/2008 4:36:44 PM

    I cant help but laugh at those who think Bush has violated the Constitution. Even if he had it would not be close to the most egregious presidential infractions. We had a president lock up one hundred thousand US citizens for over four years, strip them of thier possesion, hold them without court order or even a hearing, and screen all their private correspondence. Is he regarded as the worst president in history by the left. Heck no they love FDR. We had another president who suspended habius corpus, used the military to keep opposing senators from voting if he thought they would oppose him and abolished a right guarenteed in the Constitution by proclamation, No court or congressional action just presidential fiat. Do we consider Abe the worst president of all time? No he had his own monument. We even had a president admit to lying under oath in a federal court proceding. Even Scooter Libby told the truth in court, he just lied to the justice department. Do we think Clinton a criminal? Now becasue the justice department eavesdrops on calls from us citizens to foreigners Bush is the worst violater of the Constitution ever? does that really make sense to anyone?

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:59:39 PM

      Does FDR breaking the law excuse Bush, then?

      I don't care if he's the worst President or the best -- if he knowingly violated the Constitution (and it's looking more and more like he did), he violated his oath of office and deserves to be investigated, impeached, and imprisoned.

      It won't happen, but it's what *should* happen.

  • Posted By: moxley @ 12/15/2008 4:29:58 PM

    Mr. Tamm,

    You are a hero. The Oath to the Constitution DOES mean something to some of these people, and that is important.

    We have a federal government that is a racketeering operation, and it needs to stop. It doesn't matter who is in office, the entire two party system is a scam anyway, this isn't a right/left or rep/dem issue - it's an AMERICAN issue, and it's a constitutional issue, and anyone who thinks that the executive should have the right to break the law and disregard their oaths to the constitution needs to spend a year in a Banana Republic (a real one, but don;t worry, if things don't change you'll have yoiur chance without even having to travel).

    Good work Mr. Tamm.....

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:58:02 PM

      Thank you for pointing out that this is not necessarily a partisan issue.

      This kind of lawbreaking on the part of the President, Vice President, Attorney General, and more, should not be tolerated (whether that President is a Democrat or a Republican is irrelevant).

      We either have one supreme law of the land -- the Constitution -- or we ARE, as you say, a banana republic, in all but name.

  • Posted By: hingalls @ 12/15/2008 4:28:15 PM

    The argument isn't that he report a crime it is how he did it. The FBI is going after him for divulging classified information inappropriately. They can come after him because he broke the law. So is it OK to go above the law to reprot it?

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 12/15/2008 4:52:19 PM

      Actually, given what teh articel said about how his superiors reacted to his comments and questions about the illegal wiretaps, he may have had no other chioce. I would argue that his first duty was to the US Constitution and he fulfilled that duty.

  • Posted By: burbank @ 12/15/2008 1:17:31 AM

    If, as the article indicates, Tamm was never briefed on the NSA's operation that according to NEWSWEEK's article "seemed to be spying" on American citizens", how then, could he know the entire scope of the NSA" investigations? NEWSWEEK's article states that NSA activity was only instigated after information was gleaned from cell phones or computers taken from captured terorists. And that would indicate that the NSA would only have been monitoring INCOMMING phone calls to the US. After suspicious activity was confirmed by NSA intercepts, then and only then did the government "data mine" that information for other sources that could lead to terrorist machinations here in the US. Mr. Tamm would like you to believe that he acted out of concern for the safety of all Americans as he upheld the honor of the Constitution. Mr. Tamm is being disingenous. He acted out af a sense of misguided self-righteous patriotism that ended up being more self serving than patriotic. He deserves to be prosecuted for his error in judgement that cost the United States a great deal in giving terrorists advance knowledge on just how sophisticated we are in uncovering their diabolical machinations.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:32:49 PM

      Would that we had more patriotism like Tamm's in America, even if it was -- your words -- self-righteous patriotism.

      Instead of "We the People," we've become we, the sheep.

  • Posted By: Bob in Poteet @ 12/15/2008 2:00:02 AM

    A liar is a liar no matter how hard someone tries to make them honest. This man is a lia. He swore to keep secrets secret, but he refused to do so. I was in that group at one time, but it was an "atomic clearance". What if I had decided to give the Russian KGB sensitive information that would have destroyed the United States. I had that information in my safe at one time. Would I have been wrong?
    He should be put in jail and kept there. All of the Newsweek people who participated should also go to jail for 10 to 20 years.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:31:49 PM

      By your "a liar is a liar" reasoning, George W. "Iraq has WMD's and is poised to use them so we have to invade" Bush is a liar, and should be jailed.

      An assertion I would agree with.

      Who's the bigger bad guy, the guy who reports the crime (even if it breaks the law to report it), or the guy who broke the law to commit the crime in the first place?

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 8:38:37 AM

      "A liar is a liar no matter how hard someone tries to make them honest. This man is a lia. He swore to keep secrets secret, but he refused to do so."

      He did not swear to conceal crimes.

  • Posted By: PainedPerspective @ 12/15/2008 4:31:41 PM

    Bush is mentally ill - a very dangerous individual. If he had been in a country without democratic institutions, he could have gone the way of a Stalin or Mugabe. He is a pathological liar who believes his own lies. It is amazing to me that he was re-elected. I think it is because people are too uninformed and assume something like this could not happen in America. A recipe for disaster.

  • Posted By: DavidtheNWOslayer @ 12/15/2008 5:33:13 AM

    Oh, and if your wondering why there are people posting IN FAVOR of illegal surveillance, don't get angry. Who do you think they work for? If they have time to track phone calls, they probably have time to post on news articles, too. ; )

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:29:53 PM

      Or, they work for or lobby for the telcos, who are making serious bank off of a bunch of lucrative (and yet strangely secret) government contracts.

      Never rule out the money motive...

  • Posted By: one4gipper @ 12/14/2008 5:55:36 PM

    ocodan, I beg to differ about Plame's status. Fitzpatrick had to allege all of the elements of the crime in order for an indictment to withstand judicial scutiny. In press interviews, he stated that in his opinion, Plame was covert. However, the CIA would never clarify Plames status. There was never any evidence adduced by Fitzpatrick that Plame was covert. Under the law an alledged fact not supported by evidence must be presumed to be false.

    • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 6:17:58 PM

      Fine... show me the article. At least I'm listing references here to information that refutes yours.

      • Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 12/14/2008 7:39:49 PM

        The reference you listed below is from Wikipedia, for christsakes! So please spare us this moral superiority complex that you seem to have.

        • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/15/2008 2:25:19 PM

          Assuming you use Wiki to source the information back to where it came from and don't grab unsourced statements, Wiki is as good as any other source out there - which is to say, maybe good, maybe sketchy, but never unimpeachable.

          • Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 12/15/2008 4:25:24 PM

            It, like you, is a joke.

    • Posted By: skrekk @ 12/14/2008 11:17:38 PM

      Let's see...first you have the request by the CIA to the DoJ to investigate a violation of the Covert Agent Identity Protection Act (IIP). Fitzgerald stated in the complaint that he had determined that Plame was covered under the Act, but that the obstruction of justice perpetrated by Libby (and others) prevented prosecution under the Act. Finally you have Plame's sworn Congressional testimony which made it clear that she met all the provisions of the Act, and the written statement of CIA director Hayden that Plame was covert:
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600276.html

      It's simply a right-wing blogger notion that Plame wasn't covered by the IIP Act, without any facts to back it up.

  • Posted By: Dencal26 @ 12/15/2008 8:19:54 AM

    Tamm is a criminal. His interest in in Bush Hate and not the American People. I assume Obama will reverse many Bush programs to fight terrorism which will result in another 911. They Americans will appreciate George Bush.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:23:14 PM

      Tamm is a hero. He took his oath -- to the CONSTITUTION -- seriously.

      I wish more government officials would follow his lead.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 8:34:41 AM

      So you hate the rule of law? Interesting.

  • Posted By: Dencal26 @ 12/15/2008 8:22:26 AM

    Arrest him for TREASON now.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 8:34:12 AM

      Reporting criminal and/or improper behavior is not treason.

      This isn't Red China.

      • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 9:03:31 AM

        He didn't report anything ... he bypassed the reporting process and gave his opinion to the NY Times, which given their agenda and track record simply used his clearance status to lend legitimacy to a broader indictment that extends well beyond this program. No one has any issue with reporting questionable behavior and certainly crimes, but give me a break - Red China? A little over the top, wouldn't you say?

        • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:22:31 PM

          It was his oath of office to report and expose these crimes (or what he believed were crimes).

          To NOT report them, to NOT do anything in his power to stop the government from doing what he believed was unconstitutional activity, would have been to violate his oath of office, which is a much truer definition of treason.

          Of course, by that measure, our President, our Vice President, our Attorney General, and at least about half of the Executive Branch (and quite a bit of the Legislative) is guilty of treason, but there you have it.

          Oh right, we're at war (the endless, self-serving "global war on terror"). I forget, what's the punishment for treason in time of war again, Mr. President?

        • Posted By: kcrusch @ 12/15/2008 12:27:58 PM

          I'm not sure he "Bypassed the reporting process." The article says he talked to his superiors about it, and they said not to talk about it. If he feels very strongly that a law is being broken by the members of his chain of command, his oath to uphold the constitution should take precedence. In which case, the argument becomes one of the interpretation of laws -- Addington/Cheney's policy vs. established Constitutional rights.

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 9:21:27 AM

          Either you are a nation of laws or you aren't.

          Decide.

  • Posted By: daveschroeder @ 12/15/2008 8:48:43 AM

    "He did not swear to conceal crimes."

    It's not clear they were "crimes" because of the way the surveillance was conducted. He made a judgment, himself, on his own, that the activity was "illegal". Subsequent legal discussion has NOT come up with any definitive determination one way or the other, because it falls into a gray area.

    Additionally, the current law, as represented after the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (HR 3773), sponsored by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) and cosponsored by 7 other Democratic colleagues:

    1. Clarifies that no court warrant is required to intercept communications of non-US Persons [wikipedia.org] when both ends of the communications are outside the United States. (Even when the interception occurs within the US.)

    2. Requires an individualized court warrant from the FISA Court when targeting US Persons. (Same as previous law.)

    A warrant is not required to intercept foreign traffic. A warrant is also not required to determine which traffic meets this requirement. A warrant is, and always has been, required for the targeted interception of the content of traffic of US Persons. (A US Person may still be a party to a communication where one or more endpoints of the communication do not require a warrant, as long as identifying and other information relating to the US Person is protected as required by law.)

    No, you can't see what it's doing, nor can any court (save, perhaps, FISC); that would disable the entire notion of secret foreign intelligence collection (which does not require, and never has required, court oversight when US Persons are not involved). That's where Congressional intelligence oversight comes in, and that's the whole purpose of it being there. Intelligence is a difficult balance in a free and open society. But, believe it or not, the primary mission and purpose of the United States' foreign intelligence apparatus is just that -- foreign intelligence, albeit updated to have some semblance of relevance in the digital world.

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:20:09 PM

      Interestingly, the current law, as of the (possibly unconstitutional, per the ACLU) FISA amendments of '08, wasn't the current law when this happened.

      Oh right, ex post facto laws are constitutional, I forgot.

  • Posted By: hingalls @ 12/15/2008 3:59:47 PM

    But, he insists, he divulged no "sources and methods" that might compromise national security when he spoke to the Times. He told reporters Eric Lichtblau and James Risen nothing about the operational details of the NSA program because he didn't know them, he says.

    Based on Tamm's comment above, if he didn't know the programs then how would he know if he diivulged sources or not?

    Can anyone explain that?

  • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 3:57:13 PM

    My god. Why can't we have more patriots like Tamm?

    Tamm told NEWSWEEK, in one of a series of recent interviews that he granted against the advice of his lawyers. "If somebody were to say, who am I to do that? I would say, 'I had taken an oath to uphold the Constitution.' It's stunning that somebody higher up the chain of command didn't speak up."

    Yeah, you know, that silly little oath of office, to protect and uphold the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Sound familiar Mr. Bush? Mr. Cheney? Mr. Gonzales?

    Tamm should get a commendation and a promotion for obeying his oath of office, even at great cost to himself. The media should get a tongue-lashing for mostly ignoring and yawning about the rampant lawlessness in our government.

    Instead, the media will probably be filled with self-congratulatory and sanctimonious pieces on Blagojevich (who is scum, but is such LITTLE scum compared to Bush, Cheney, etc.), and Tamm, the patriot, the Honorable Man, will probably go to jail.

    So dies the Great Experiment, American democracy.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse