The Fed Who Blew the Whistle

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: John Maxwell @ 12/14/2008 7:56:45 PM

    Another example of someone doing the right thing and our "trusted" leaders and their agencies practice spin control and retribution that they so eloquently explain in a Federal Court House is illegal for anyone to practice. Until the courts will recognize the rights of Americans and acknowledge the fact that the FBI and DOJ are not above the law, this is a historical event that is bound to repeat itself.

  • Posted By: John Maxwell @ 12/14/2008 7:39:51 PM

    The problem with the FBI and DOJ being involved in anything like this is the trample all over the very laws they are sworn to uphold. How many Americans did they listen in on that had absolutely nothing to do with Al Quaeda? How many wiretap warrants did they circumvent under the pretenst of terrorist activity. How many Americans are sitting in prison when the Federal Bureau of Incompentence tapped all their communications while trampling on the Constitution. I would have a little more respect for them if they would admit to doing wrong. The arrogance they take and the vicousness with which they attacked this true patriot, is indicative of an agency out of control that needs a lease.

  • Posted By: one4gipper @ 12/14/2008 5:16:35 PM

    Ocadan, I lived in Washington and knew an agent that worked for the CIA at langley. He was not a covert agent. His friends knew that he worked for the CIA. When he filled out a loan application to buy a house, he listed his employer as the CIA. The flaw in your theory is that one cannot, by definition, out a CIA agent who is not covert. He is already outed. Just like one cannot provide insider information with respect to information that is already in the public realm.

    • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 7:24:33 PM

      Well obviously if he was no a covert agent (and I've already proved that Plame was), or if he was just an analyst then of course he can tell his friends where he worked. What is your point? And of course the CIA is not going to divulge whether an employee is a covert agent or not... because... um.... it is covert.

  • Posted By: joetheplumer @ 12/14/2008 6:55:23 PM

    This is a practice all over the world.Everyone who pratice it know that it is illegal.

  • Posted By: joetheplumer @ 12/14/2008 6:54:32 PM

    This is a comon practice all over the world.

  • Posted By: tocnwth @ 12/14/2008 4:40:02 PM

    They should take those who are pursuring him and send them to Gitmo or a prison like Abu Grhrarib. Let them get a taste of what they are doing to everyone else and put a tap on their phome so the government can listen to all their family says.
    How can they say they are not crooks when their actions say they are?

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 5:26:29 PM

      He killed americans, they captured him, did not execute him on side, sent him instead to Gitmo. Bastards.

      • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 6:52:23 PM

        Wow... big leap here in logic. But I'm becoming use to that on here. So how did what he did kill Americans? Again, where's the proof/facts? So that means the Bush administration outting Plame killed Americans also.

  • Posted By: JPGR @ 12/14/2008 5:25:52 PM

    To you guys who are talking about the Plame situation, I'd like to add something if I may. We now know who actually 'outed' Valerie Plame (right or wrong) and it was not Libby. It was Richard Armitage. Mr. Armitage is NOT a big Bush fan, and almost seemed to have outed her on accident...I really think he didn't realize it was such a big deal at the time. Severe lefties still hate Scooter...facts really don't seem to sway their opinions. That last sentence was my personal opinion, of course, but the rest of what I wrote has been divulged publically as fact.

    • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 6:02:56 PM

      This is true. Armitage was the initial or primary leaker but Novak also got this information from others in the administration. BTW, Plame was working at the CIA on "dirty" bomb material proliferation so compromising her identify meant setting us back and threatening further on our efforts to combat terrorism, all for political retribution for her husband telling the truth about WMD in Iraq by debunking the Yellow Cake in Nigeria flimsy evidence that the Bush Administration was pushing for justification of the preemptive invasion. Keep it going guys.... this is fun debunking your crap...

  • Posted By: Old Democrat @ 12/14/2008 5:54:57 PM

    "All he knew was that a domestic surveillance program existed, and it "didn't smell right." That's all? How many died because of his ideology-tainted nose? Tamm deserves harsher punishment than" living under a pall."

  • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 5:42:46 PM

    FACT: Valerie Plame was a covert CIA operative with a covert CIA identity at the time this was revealed by reporter Robert Novak. Hence, the Grand Jury investigation by the Justice Department. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_leak_grand_jury_investigation#The_investigation

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 5:40:57 PM

    In addition to being traitor, he is quite stupid. Being lawyer himself, he decided to seek legal advice from several people, let alone sending email after a fact. He desperately wanted to avoid capture but guaranteed it by his own actions. Big Throat was so much smarter.
    Becides, he wanted to indluence elections, bvut did not realise that pre-election publication would boost Bush chances.

  • Posted By: one4gipper @ 12/14/2008 4:42:41 PM

    Shanshayla, I hate to pop your bubble, but Blago was not caught pursuant to the NSA "sneak and peek" program. I guarantee that Fitzpatrick is way too smart not to have gone to a judge and gotten a warrant to tap Blago's phones. This has nothing to do with FISA and the NSA program. Blago's crime was domestic. I suspect that Fitzpatrick may have gotten a warrant partially based on Tony Rezko's snitching to obtain a reduced sentence. Fitzpatrick must have shown probable cause to believe that a crime had been commited and that Blago was involved in the crime. To move without a warrant would result in the evidence being excluded from trial under the Fourth Amerdment exclusionary rule. As stupid at the judicial application of the Fourth Amendment is, we are stuck with it. Think about it. The Fourth Amendment only protects criminals. If you are pulled over and searched and not charged with a crime, you have no recourse. If evidence of a crime is found, the court will exclude unlawfully obtained evidence. Thus, society must suffer by letting criminals go because a police office makes a mistake.

    • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/14/2008 5:14:43 PM

      Maybe not, if so, my mistake.

      Stuck with the 4th amendment or not, I will take wiretapping an Al Qaeda terrorist any day if can stop another 9/11.

      I have Jamie Gorelck and others like her, at least in part, to thank for my attitude.

  • Posted By: truth01 @ 12/14/2008 4:25:40 PM

    I agree with Mr. Morrissey that hyberbolics are used at extreme ends of the arguments, and neither extreme's use is constructive to implementing reasonable solutions to keep America safe from those with violent views and intentions toward us while at the same time keeping those given a great deal of power in an environment of uncertainty from engaging in extreme opportunism and abuse of power. I, too, get disheartened to see debate branch so wildly off topic that people walk away from the discussion. But I assure you that what I say was perpetrated against me and my family, for very political reasons. I don't want the same thing to happen to people in similar position of innocence or vulnerability because of roles their family members (especially those who've died) fulfilled with honor and integrity for our nation???s people and government. Most of us who???ve worked in organizations know how political people can get, even when working in supposedly the most altruistic of places. People who want power often develop rumors or partial truths about others to cast them in ambiguously negative light and leave an unending air of suspicion. In the polarized climate today, this type of "program" exposed by Mr. Tamm leaves the door open for powerful opportunists to pursue their own agendas without scrutiny or consequences for abuse of power. There is too much that too many people can do to public servants in roles like my father to intimidate and make their lives miserable. People in these roles who take their responsibility seriously know the consequences, and that is why I believe Mr. Tamm???s assertion that he would not have spoken up unless he was thinking in the best interests of you and me America.
    One note about the Venona intercepts investigations...there is not a clear consensus on their analysis or completeness of all of the evidence against all of those targeted. www.thenation.com/doc/20010716/navasky
    And while there some truth in McCarthy's belief in the need to have ways to identify those inside our borders who are a real potential danger to our national security, many agree that his net and methods went overboard. I think that is all that people of reasonable mind who oppose much of the warrantless -- but mostly the highly secretive surveillance "program" -- want to protect against. Most of us know that we need some security protections. The fact is, we had enough in place that the CIA had identified and been informed of the al_Qaeda threat prior to Sept. 11...they just did not act on it. And that, to me, brings up the question: Why is it that American citizens are being scrutinized to this degree, rather than the individuals and forces within the CIA that did not escalate response to a known serious threat? What are they doing within their agency to sift through the intelligence they already have access to and act on it?

  • Posted By: js100@msn.com @ 12/14/2008 11:49:22 AM

    We must stop spying on suspicious activity and mining data for items of interest. The terrorists have rights. What does another attack and a few thousand more Americans lives lost mean? They have the right to kill in to protect their lifestyle from the amoral western ligestyle. Let them attack and teach you infidels a lesson ! Maintain privaacy at any cost.

    • Posted By: Doc Howl @ 12/14/2008 11:54:26 AM

      So...what's it like to be so afraid?

      • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 3:37:38 PM

        It must be miserable... always consumed by fear... I don't want to live that way. But we know that fear comes from ignorance.... uuuummmm....

        • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/14/2008 4:04:57 PM

          True ignorance comes from ignoring someone who wants you dead. You say you're not afraid of them? I'm sure you would say that if one of those monsters got their mitts on you. Yeah....

          Once again, you're confusing people that have a genuine concern for another terrorist attack with being simply scared.

      • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/14/2008 12:08:56 PM

        Obviously, you don't think another terrorist attack will happen. Either that or you simply don't care if it does.

        You are incorrectly labeling people who are vigilant and concerned about future terrorist attacks as simply being "scared."

  • Posted By: John Morrissey @ 12/14/2008 3:07:09 PM

    to occodan you assert that 1/ I lie, and 2/fail to recognize other lies.3/that my IQ is low.Show me the statement that i made that is a lie,or brand yourself as a liar. 2/ same again. 3/my i q is in the 140 s.I have an Ms in Nuclear Science from the U of Chicago and an MBA from Stanford U Grad School,have been on boards of Universities and corporations and was head of a govt commission for three years..GWB has a higher iQ than john Kerry and finished above his class standing at Yale, and i would be honored to be in his company at any time.Can we stop these wild insults and deal in facts?

    • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 3:41:31 PM

      I'm working on it John. Hold on. But to keep the conversation going... answer this. If you believe this guy should be tried for treason then shouldn't you have also supported the indictment and trial for treason of the person who outted Valerie Plame as a CIA agent?

    • Posted By: ocodan @ 12/14/2008 3:27:25 PM

      John Morrissey - Thanks for the response. I just re-read your entry and I have to admit it was one of the most coherent and rational (although, I totally disagree with its assertions). But at least you made SOME statements that could be proven to be either true or false but haven't already been shown repeatedly to be patently false. As far as your academic and career credentials, I have no way of proving that.... but the quality of your writing does suggest a higher IQ. In summary, I'd sit down and argue with you any day. So do you want me to try to rebut your arguments?

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 3:11:06 PM

      Kerry-Bush discussions did not prove your point. Kerry definitely proved that he was smarter but a jerk (his famous lesbian comment which probably cost him elections).

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 3:25:15 PM

    I understand why Dermoctratic NYT published it only after elections. They realised that it would allow Bush win in klanslide. Tamm definitely did not think that way, he hoped to influence election and to be announced a hero by Kerry administration.

  • Posted By: cicero-2 @ 12/14/2008 3:21:11 PM

    WE ,USA all, MUST do whatever it takes to prevent Islamic terrorisim.Google knows more about YOU than the government
    Cicero

  • Posted By: TGething @ 12/14/2008 2:35:55 PM

    Thomas Tamm is a traitor. Thomas Tamm is yet again another fat, arrogant bureaucrat who thinks he knows better than anyone else about what is good for the country. He needs to be prosecuted and found guilty. He can buddy up with his cell mate Blago in a few months.

  • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/14/2008 2:32:43 PM

    A cut and paste from a response to someone below...

    What exactly is so hard about getting the needed warrants anyway? What was so broken about the old system? How would warrantless sneak and peek have helped prevent 9/11? The FBI had records on a few of these guys anyway and had let them go - anytime they wanted to they could have started tailing them again. The actual training and planning was done in Afghanistan.

  • Posted By: oletafive @ 12/14/2008 1:15:57 PM

    As long as government operations are allowed to hidethe truth in secrecy we will never know the the truth until we are enslaved. The light of day is to bright for Bush .
    lThomas Tamm is a bright light with a sense of honor.

  • Posted By: truth01 @ 12/14/2008 1:06:22 PM

    "Riddled with spies" suggests a volume to which spies were within the U.S. government. While you make reference to some instances, that is not a high volume. The language you use is hyperbolic, Mr. Morrissey. Sorry but from a pragmatic viewpoint, knowing many people who work in or have worked in government and how political -- and very personally so -- situations quickly become, and people with power often use it to manipulate situations to their advantage or end. And, no, I didn't attack Joe McCarthy, I stated what has been historically shown to be true about his actions during a very paranoid time, which he emotionally spiraled into. His hearings went beyond reasonable actions, as did many of his accusations. Fortunately there are people, like Mr. Tamm, who somehow through our luck or whatever force, are able to balance against the hysteria that others less knowledgeable and tempered for crisis or potential danger get caught up in. And I would suggest, Mr. Morrissey, that your interpretations of "aid and comfort to the enemy" are just that -- your interpretations, and not what the U.S. Constitution refers to in the case of Mr. Tamm. As many of us even in average America can attest to, during many of the last several years, to voice any opposition related to the pre-emptive strike in Iraq has itself landed in the labels of "not patriotic" and "traitor." I imagine that within the structure of reporting the concern, Mr. Tamm more than likely could tell that he would not get fair hearing and potentially have all the things done to his family that are happening now.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse