"I was just following orders" hasn't been a legitimate excuse since WWII. This type of wiretapping is not just illegal, its wrong. Any government officials who were "just following orders" and participated in, or covered-up for, this crime have committed far worse crimes than those, if any, committed by Mr. Tamm.
The Fed Who Blew the Whistle
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Posted By: Collin L. @ 12/21/2008 7:01:37 AM
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Posted By: 40YearR @ 12/21/2008 12:29:52 PM
Agree.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 7:32:17 PM
GWB As I speak to you right now Saddam Hussein is eating yellow cake with chocolate frosting. That could mean a mushroom cloud is going to form.
KR: No George that is yellow cake uraniam, say it makes nuclear bombs.
GWB: Okay it makes nucular missiles. You make them from aluminum tubes, see the tubes, they are aluminum.
KR: If you don't get this right yuo cannot be a "war time" president, and the people will not remain afraid and you cannot go in and attack Saddam, and we may lose the election. George you have to get this right!
DC: Ya, George do you want to be a hero or not. Think about how great it will be, plop america right there in the middle of all of that oil. We will be greeted as liberators.
GWB: My dad says if yuo break it you buy it!
KR: Ya george but he was sorta weak, and you are strong, you re the decider George, you have the badge now.
GWB: Okay, yellow cake geraniums, and WMDs I get it. Am I ready to go on yet??
KR: Yes George, go face the nation.
DC: Ya George go BS your little heart out, hahaha...
GWB: what???
KR: Nothing Geaorge, Dick was just talking about you and him going hunting when this is all over, just you and him in the wild, hunting....-
Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/18/2008 9:13:05 PM
Whatis-who is KR? And... more food..I think you need a big helping of pasta!
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 2:46:53 PM
Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and GW. The three blind rats...
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/19/2008 3:58:37 PM
Karl Rove, of course! I know him well... got to know him during the primaries. Hillary's Rovanian tactics!
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 6:34:49 PM
If you want to know him better look up the whisper campaign during the Bush/McCain primaries. Some pretty underhanded sht was pulled on the McCain campaign, and Rove was behind it...
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Posted By: 40YearR @ 12/19/2008 10:51:11 PM
Yeah, like he had a black baby out of wedlock N stuff....
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Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 12/21/2008 9:29:01 AM
What, do you have a problem with white people having black babies out of wedlock? You must be racist.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/20/2008 10:08:30 AM
Correction- I meant to type Rovian tactics. Whatis- I know about what Pres. Bush did to John McCain during the 2000 camp. It was a very nasty smear campaign. A shame.
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Posted By: LostDemocracy @ 12/20/2008 10:21:24 PM
He is an AMERICAN Hero. Too bad our government (old and new) lacks Heros.
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Posted By: rtarry @ 12/20/2008 7:18:03 PM
Thomas M Tamm is a national hero. He should be awarded the Congretional Medal of honor. This country is blessed to have men and women in goverment who believe in honor and justice.
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Posted By: DEECER @ 12/20/2008 2:53:43 PM
Excellent story by a great reporter.
DC
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Posted By: DEECER @ 12/20/2008 2:53:04 PM
Excellent story by a great reporter.
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Posted By: lelah35 @ 12/20/2008 1:22:33 AM
NO, I think this guy is being used as a scape goat for the illegal wiretapping that was being done in the 1st place.
I think that is BS to say" if your not doing anything wrong why should you care?" It is the principal of the matter! That is like when cops say"if your not guilty why do you need a lawyer?" because it is within our rights as citizens! There should be no way around that and no overstepping that fact!
The rights are given to us by the constitution and the bill of rights. What RIGHT does the goverment have to circumvent these rights becaused they think it is in the nations best interest?
What about senators that recieve bribes or cops on the take. Everyone looks the other way until more people start to speak up about it! Everything that a citizen does is somehow considered wrong, but if done by the goverment it is right? That is not how it should work. But what do I know? I am just someone that see's things as they are not as they are wanted to be !
the goverment and the law have the power, not the people as it once was!
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 7:24:01 PM
Can I get a side of Treason with those Freedom Fries? And how about some Yellow Cake? yumm!
How about some constitutional corruption?
What have you to hide anyway?
Why do you have such a problem with us spying on you? We don't torture and take people away to other countries, if we suspect something. Don't worry, we are here to protect you.
Don't worry!
Now watch while I drive this ball....-
Posted By: seeker of truth @ 12/19/2008 9:54:48 PM
You are kidding right ??? We the United States doesn't torture..that is what you said..CORECT? Get your head out to f the sand..what palnet do you live on??
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Posted By: seeker of truth @ 12/19/2008 9:37:06 PM
America is eternally distroying itself with greed & corruption starting at the top and filtering to all levels of Goverment and Big business and with all humanities loss of respect for any moral values or human life. II admire Tamm for having the courage to stand up and speak out against corruption at the highest levels of our Goverment and at the price of his/his families entire life at the expense of being distroyed by th very people he is trying to protect - because in the long run it will be we the people that follow the very corrupt goverment like sheep to slaughter and Mr. Tamm's sacrifce will be in vain. Sad society we have become when we are so passive and give away everyday one more of our civil liberties!
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 3:14:54 PM
Posted By: Floridave @ 12/18/2008 8:30:07 PMHow exactly will you support him? Send him cigarettes in prison he can use to barter for sex?
Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 3:12:22 PMI will send money to his defense fund. If he goes to jail (which is unlikely, and if that happens it will be for not long) I will send him a cake with a file in it. I shouldn't say cake online, Bush might be listening and think it is yellow cake and attack our country and blame it on me.-
Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/19/2008 3:49:53 PM
If supposedly Mr Tamm did nothing wrong, why would he be prosecuted at all? And the yellow cake and Bush issue-I don't follow. Lol..
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 3:58:22 PM
Bush's Rational for going into Iraq was based on a faked memo that said Saddam was working on obtaining yellow cake uranium from Niger. Bush talked about it in his State of the union address, even after the memo was debunked as a fake. Then the thing spiralled down to where we are today.
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 12/19/2008 4:40:34 PM
Sad Saddam.... he just had to play footsie with the UN with one resolution after another for 12 years. He could have easily come clean and bypassed all the BS early on during the Clinton administration, but he had to taunt and antagonize and then corrupt the easily corruptible UN. The laughable "this time we really mean it" repetative resolutions were a joke and Hussein knew it.
Just think, were it not for Saddam's own arrogance and stupidity, today he could be happily gassing and cutting out the tongues of his people! If he were alive, I'll bet he would miss that the most.-
Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 4:55:45 PM
YA, everybody is defending Saddam. I guess we should attack N Koreaq too, their leader suks (and he even tols us he was going nucular), I can probably cerate a long list. Oh, but NK was not considered low hanging fruit and easy. I guess when it is seen as black and white it is alway all or nothing. We can justify anything if we are incompetent and run out of our one idea and shelve everything else that can be possible. After 9/11 there were leverage points, but they were squandered and replaced with the puppetmaster cheney's agenda.
So simply incompetent! Ya, and let us do Iran a huge favor, man, how bad can we fukkk things up? Bush bad...-
Posted By: Forty4 @ 12/19/2008 7:18:29 PM
We didn't need to attack N. Korea. They had starvation so sanctions actually worked. Saddam had lots and lots of oil... big difference.
Actually, Iran will have its nukes, and no, I don't want to hit them. The world wants the bully US to butt out, so be it. If there is greater price to be paid later, then that's the way it will be.
Regarding Iraq, the UN should never have issued the first resolution if it wasn't going to enforce it, let alone 17 of them. Obviously, diplomacy didn't work with Iraq. If it did, the issue would have been resolved say around the 4th resolution. It didn't, and the result was the ultimate corruption of the UN.
People like Hussein and Ahmadinejad only understand overwhelming force, and today's answer is to forget toothless resolutions, leave them be, and then promise them a guarantee of squashment if they attack anyone, say like Israel!
Problem solved!
Pretty good article here if you're interested:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/175619-
Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 8:05:02 PM
The issues with leaders like Saddam and ilk are that they are Bullys and they will push it until it is on top of them. These guys do whatever it takes to stay in power. They fear, and they react out of fear. The issue is not though of military might, we have it. It is how we use it, and why and when we should use it. These country's are threatened by our very existence, they should be dealt with with that in mind. When we put them on this "axis of evil" that threatened them even more, and gave them the power to recruit more in defense. Using the word "evil" also puts it in a religious context, and they use that to move the hard core religious folks to move against us.
We cannot win a "war on terror" with arms. Isreal can be attacked any time. We can be attacked any time, a couple of roadside bombs here would cause some psychological strife. When you have people willing to kill themselves to kill others, you have to get to the root of the problem. Our military is not a deterrent, just like Isreals is not. How many times over the years has isreal smashed back??? And really substantial. It really did not deter...
We have to be smarter that an 8 year old with a badge and a big gun. We have fought the fire while we fed the flames. Put out the fier with gasolene. We are not safe right now because nothing has happened lately. There was a huge lull in between the 1993 WTC attacks and the 9/11 attacks. I believe going into Iraq just created more of an underground problem, more recruitment, nmore people that were once not terrorists, moer young people with no hope...
We are not any safer, just the opposite i am afraid. Our strategies and tactics need to be adjusted. The surge was not just pouring in of troups there was a strategy, and it also helped that the Sunnis got involved in it in fighting teh Faux Al Qaida. Overwhelming force was not the answer in surge terms, it was moer grass roots and strategic.
We need to be a lot more creative with the new threats, they are not conventional, they do not respond to conventional warfare, it only will create more problems for us.-
Posted By: Forty4 @ 12/19/2008 8:23:29 PM
Whatis, you make some valid points.... I've gotta leave for awhile, but I'd like to continue the debate. I suggest the NW site I posted above which is more related to the subject than this one, lest we get scolded' for getting off topic here. Lol!
See you over there later...
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 7:35:56 PM
I won't be making any excuses for the UN. Nor will I for Bush's part or the spineless Democrats. None of this is easy, that is understood. I think Bush went into office with the right things in mind. I do feel he did not have the capacity or the confidence to be the leader he needed to be. There were other undercurrents flowing that were very strong and there was payback, and all of that... There were wild ideals and poor planning, and high risk and impact. i would never in my job plan so poorly when the risk was so great. The analysis that existed way before GWB came into office was spot on. GWB and folks just did not give it enough weight...
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 12/19/2008 7:56:07 PM
You're right about none of this being easy. And I agree about payback. Anyone who thinks that wasn't a component, even a minor one... well, it was. That said, there's a point when you have take John Gotti out or leave him be. Clinton left things lie, and Hussein thought Bush would do the same. Trying to clean up the UN may have been the answer, and that may have actually made the sanctions painful enough that Hussein would have complied. Pain is the great motivator, and it was clear that he didn't have enough of it to come clean. At any rate, going after Iran when it gets its nukes won't be an option for Obama. I just hope the UN doesn't make a complete fool out of itself again with a bunch of worthless resolutions.
If Putin tries to park warheads in Venezuela, now that's a different story. We could get a severe ass kicking over that one.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 7:30:59 PM
Appreciated, i will check it out, thanks, and have a great holiday!
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Posted By: Forty4 @ 12/19/2008 7:40:04 PM
Thanks, likewise!
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 5:46:50 PM
He may have broke a law to protect our rights and teh constitution. People that are saying he should be prosecuted seem to think it is okay to be spied on by our government without oversight,.. There are checks and balances in our government to protect us from rogue leaders, etc... The Bush administration circumvented and set up a spying operation that was a secret, and they were spying on Ameicans as well as listening to overseas calls between soldiers and their loved ones at home.
It is really disgusting. This guy blew the whistle on this puttting himself at risk for prosecution.
People see him as a hero because he put his career and everything on the line to expose a crime by our government against it's citizens. He basically was not 'loyal' to Bush's idea of survalience, and intelligence gathering. The president swore to uphold the constitution, but did not, and used terrorism as an excuse not to.
Somebody said to me last night what does it matter if you are being wiretapped if you have nothing to hide. I said, tell that to the innocent people who were swept up and taken away because something was suspected by our government. When information was not complete enough, or not followed up on and it was reacted on in a halfhazard way. It is important to understand why the founders of this country thought it important enough to protect us from our government that they put those protections in the constitution, and set things up as they did.
There are too many agendas in politics.
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/19/2008 3:43:13 PM
A file in a cake? Lol! More yellow cake talk whatis? Cool. I see winegirl too! Wine and cake..why not?
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 5:15:19 PM
You are very cute:)
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Posted By: winegirl @ 12/19/2008 3:06:51 PM
I feel that the Bush administration era has operated like the Communist government or the 3rd Reich did in trying to suppress free speech, free exchange of ideas and the rights that are outlined in the Constitution. Anyone who went along with this illegal activity is also a criminal and a traitor. Mr. Tamm is one of the heroes who put his conscience over his personal convenience to ensure that those rights remain ours. I don't understand how career bureaucrats can become so brain dead as to go along with the stuff that the Bush administration cooked up. I sincerely hope that the Obama administration operates a full housecleaning when they come into power. There will certainly be enough educated, intelligent and morally upright people who have recently become unemployed to fill the positions that are made available when the corrupt are fired. It will also be refreshing to be able to exercise free speech rights again, letters to editors, opinion pieces, blogs, public statements, without having to worry if the "thought police" are going to come knocking.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/19/2008 5:18:24 PM
The thought police! I have not said that in a while... I just want this administration to be held accountable, but my breath is not being held. I mean we inmpeached a president for trying to cover up an affair. Not defending Clinton, but just the irony of it makes me choke...
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Posted By: Jonnan @ 12/19/2008 4:59:50 PM
Per http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/the-thomas-tamm-legal-defense-fund/
Thomas Tamm Legal Defense Fund
Bank of Georgetown
5236 44th Street
Washington, DC 20015.
I don't know how your bank works, but mine will allow me to set up an address and automatic payments for arbitrary amounts and times. I can certainly set aside $5.00 a month for a man who is a genuine hero.
For special 'patriot' level contributions, I hear the FBI can arrange interviews with genuine agents - you too can see what an FBI agent that has sworn to uphold the constitution but willingly supports a President that routinely violates it looks like!
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Posted By: my2_twocents @ 12/19/2008 4:27:17 PM
you mean bush/rove tactics I am sure. pia
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Posted By: shod @ 12/19/2008 2:50:23 PM
Bunk. The oath is to uphold the U.S. Constitution, not to protect some agency that thinks it's above the law. These agencies will stonewall. That's why whistle blowers are forced to turn to the press. It's too bad our government is so corrupt. I'd like to see Bush, Cheney and anyone in government or the private sector be charged with the crimes they committed. The "terrorists" are in the U.S. government.
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Posted By: upset-1 @ 12/19/2008 1:09:19 PM
I for one view Mr. TAMMS as a hero . An i personnaly feel that he did the right thing in this case regardless of his secerity clearance level the american people should have the right to know what is taking place within an open government society. this country isn't russia or at least not yet anyway. but if thing like this were to be allowed to continue without the american peolpes knowledge . i beleive that that is the direction that we would be heading in thank you
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Posted By: gdf140 @ 12/14/2008 5:40:48 AM
Bad idea... There are better avenues to shut down illegal intelligence programs than the NYT. He violated the oath for his own ideological reasons...now, his family is paying the price for his zealousness. When the FBI gets done with him, he will likely find himself being passed around the Cell Block...Lets see what happens when he can't keep THOSE secrets to himself...
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Posted By: OhioGal @ 12/14/2008 8:34:58 AM
You are sick. You sound like you enjoy the thought. Do you wonder why people are turning away from the Right in this country. You are nasty in a sick kind of way. You don't mind the destruction of the constitution while at the same time whining about activist judges ruining the constitution. People are fleeing the Right and the destruction it has brought to our constittution, our economy, our ability to competently wage war, our standing in the world, our underfunded schools and so our very way of life.
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Posted By: gdf140 @ 12/14/2008 8:55:09 PM
Fair enough...may have been a bit over the top. But lets not confuse the issue - This is not about Right or Left - its about violating an oath to protect our nation's secrets. It does not matter if you agree with them or not. If he believed this to be illegal, there are a number of avenues to pursue. Going to the Inspector General of the FBI for one would have likely put the brakes on this program. Or if that avenue was unavailable, aproach the Democratic leadership in the Congress with this story. There are plenty of folks with security clearances who will pick up the phone to find out what exactly was going on. No, instead he snuck onto a Metro payphone and called the NYT - which means he knew that what he was doing was wrong, it not illegal. If he had the strength of his convictions, he should have nutted-up and put himself on 60 minutes. Instead he tried to play Deepthroat. He got caught and his family will now pay the price.
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Posted By: AnnCKeirns @ 12/15/2008 10:55:27 PM
No, it is about protecting the Constitution of the United States of America. Something Tamm understands and did. He did the only thing left open to him to ensure the safety of our constitution. It wasn't protecting a national secret to protect Americans from knowing that their very own government is commiting crimes against them by invading their sovereign right to privacy.
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Posted By: gdf140 @ 12/19/2008 12:07:16 PM
The manner in which he "protected the Constitution" was not that of a Patriot, but rather an ideologue with an axe to grind. You obviously know nothing about the intelligence community or the avenues available to him if he felt this program was illegal. I do not object to him feeling the program was illegal, but the way in which he sought to end it is against everything he took an oath to uphold. There are greater considerations than what we feel we have a right to read about in the NYT...We need not broadcast to our enemies how we are attempting to disrupt attacks against us. But just know that you sleep soundly in your bed at night because there are dedicated people working around the clock, often risking their lives to protect you. Enjoy your freedom - some of us have paid more for it than you will ever know.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 12/14/2008 12:03:22 PM
You are why your party is dead. Congratulations.
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Posted By: WaterboardW @ 12/19/2008 12:03:04 AM
TM TAMM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IS A HERO. AMERICA NEEDS MORE PATRIOTS LIKE HIM WHO HAVE, NOT ONLY THE INTELLIGENCE TO RECOGNIZE WHEN WHAT IS HAPPENING IS ILLEGAL, BUT THE COURAGE TO RISK THEIR
PERSONAL FREEDOM IN OUTING THOSE RESPONSIBLE. BUSH, CHENEY AND THE WHOLE SLEAZY BUNCH WHO LIED US INTO A PHONY WAR THAT RESULTED IN THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.ARE TRAITORS TO THE CONSTITUTION THEY SWORE TO PROTECT. OTHER HEROES ARE COMEY, MUELLER AND YES, EVEN, EVENTUALLY, ASHCROFT.
THE GREAT DECIDER AND SIGNING STATEMENT MAKER SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND SENT OFF TO PRISON AS AN EXAMPLE TO OTHER WANNABE DESPOTS.
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Posted By: FATJOEY @ 12/18/2008 1:52:41 PM
HE SWORE AN OATH OF SECRECY AND BROKE IT,THAT MEANS HES A LIAR,WHY WOULD I BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS ?
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Posted By: 40YearR @ 12/18/2008 2:02:30 PM
You wouldn't anyway. The propaganda office says not to. You sound just like the government and the radicals did when Daniel Ellsberg disclosed that the government lied massively to us about the Viet Nam war......He wasn't prosecuted either...
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 2:11:15 PM
Just tell this moron from now on to go have his mom get him some more bacon and pie. This guy is lost...
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/18/2008 3:02:36 PM
Whatis-you must be hungry with all this talk of burgers, fries, pies and yellow cake! What's up? Bored? Here is a suggestion,-check out the artiicle on the film Valkyrie. I left a somewhat interesting post about WWII.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 4:19:30 PM
Just thought FatJoey needed to eat something, his brain was starving from a lack of blood sugar and he was babbling liike an idiot...
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/18/2008 4:28:25 PM
Poor Fat Joey-let's be kind to him, okay? It's Christmas. whatis, you are a nice guy..very nice.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 4:44:02 PM
Thank you, but I am trying to be nice, in fact, I thought I was really nice considering...
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/18/2008 4:55:30 PM
You're nice, whatis, all the time.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 7:27:40 PM
You are sweet... I am sure some on her would beg to differ, and would like to have me taken away to guantanimo
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Posted By: Pia1981 @ 12/18/2008 9:16:07 PM
We all have our moments, including me..I can be mean.... and lethal..I am the stinger sign after all.
Guantanamo Bay- you? No way.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 2:04:22 PM
Who cares what you believe or think? You are the only true moron on this board. If you think outside your matchbox you may have some answers.
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Posted By: bobmulley @ 12/18/2008 4:53:38 PM
I worked for Montgomery County, MD Government back in the late 1980's and remember both Mr. Tamm and his attorney, Mr. Kemp. Both are good and honorable people. I will be contributing to Mr. Tamm's defense fund. I am sure he struggled with his decision. Taking negative action against someone who tells the truth only makes it a harder decision for the next person to do the right thing. Bob from Delaware
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 7:21:40 PM
Nice to hear... Thank you... Nice to have some "real" heroes in government, people that put themselves out there on the line for our values as a country.
Tamm I honor your service and you will be supported by the people that will take this country back from the embarassments of the past.
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Posted By: samolian @ 12/17/2008 5:59:58 PM
This man is my Hero! Every bit as courageos as the soldiers in the line of fire in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/18/2008 10:55:18 AM
How dare you compare this traitor and treasonous SOB to the brave Soldiers, Sailor, Airmen and Marines who are facing danger every single day, and now are facing more danger because of what Mr. Tamm did.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 12/18/2008 6:23:48 PM
"How dare you compare this traitor and treasonous SOB to the brave Soldiers, Sailor, Airmen and Marines "
Because they are all, Tamm included, acting in the best interest of their country. That's how. -
Posted By: summer4077 @ 12/18/2008 2:56:08 PM
With all due respect to soldiers, Tamm is probably facing more danger through harassment and threats than the average US soldier. Most are stationed at bases in America and friendly countries.
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Posted By: tkunze1000 @ 12/18/2008 10:53:33 AM
How dare you compare this treasonous SOB to the honorable soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines! I think your view of a hero is sadly skewed.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 12/18/2008 12:44:25 PM
Simple, he put his a$$ on the line to expose a corrupt government. That is called a Patriot, puttig country before a corrupt government, simple as that.
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